Official Outlaw Owners thread - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 7126 Old 11-18-2008, 02:42 PM
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So, I've been looking, watching, reading, thinking, etc. for a couple of months now. I had my choices narrowed down to the HSU, then found out about the Outlaw. Funny thing, I've been on the Outlaw email list for a few years and never thought about them until recently. We've just pulled the plug on the LFM 1+. I have a small living/watching room, with a half-wall between it and a very tiny galley kitchen, and an opening to a hallway that leads to the front door and to our front living room. I'm going to rough estimate the living room as 1920 cu ft., the kitchen is about 450 cu ft, the hallway is tiny, and the front living room is also about 1920 cu ft, but again it only comes into play through the hallway door opening.

I'm replacing a failed Sunfire Signature. It filled the room very well, and I'm hoping that the +1 will do even better, especially down in the low lows.

The room is carpeted and is pier and beam.

Of course I've told you all this to ask a simple question... I've read this entire thread and it seems that most of you prefer the ME over the MO for movies. Movies will be 100% of my listening when at medium to high volumes, the rest of the time is either spent gaming on the PS3 (I don't play FPS games) or music in the background. So, is ME the setting for me? I do plan on listening to both to see what I like, but I would like to start first with a recommendation.

Anyone else gone from a Sunfire to one of these?
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post #1172 of 7126 Old 11-18-2008, 02:57 PM
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TornadoTJ, Congrats on your purchase and welcome to the thread!

With one LFM-1+, I would start with Max Output while you run the test tones to set levels. When I had one sub, I ran in MO all the time and liked it very much.

IMHO, ME does aid in the movie experience when watching movies like Cloverfield, WOTW or Hulk. So, like you said, you will have to listen to both and see what it sounds like in your room.

Please check back with your thoughts and pix of your set-up.

Larry
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post #1173 of 7126 Old 11-18-2008, 03:19 PM
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I will post pics soon, I'm still working through the system. I'm still on an older JVC receiver with no HDMI, so I'm running toslink from the PS3 to the receiver, then HDMI to the TV. I'm using a Rotel 985 MK1 for power. Unfortunately, I have to use one of the channels off of it to drive the Sunfire, since the Sunfire's amp died. I had to settle on in-wall speakers for the front array, they sound good but are shallow compared to the little Bostons I used to use (Micro 90s), but the room just won't allow anything other than in-walls. They didn't plan for these HT systems in 1955 when they designed the house! The rears are Klipsch S-2s, they are OK for what they are, at the time it was what I could afford.

Our future plans are to move the HT to the front living room and use real speakers instead of in-walls, plus install it all on the side wall instead of lengthwise in the room, since our 46" Sammy LN-T4671 1080p TV seems too far away. Oh well, future plans are future plans, one step at a time and we will get there.

I've done 100% of the work myself, and I'm actually pretty proud of what I've done on a budget.

Robbie
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post #1174 of 7126 Old 11-18-2008, 04:35 PM
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Welcome TornadoTJ,

I would follow Larry's advice since he has experience with both the Plus and EX. On another note, to help with you setting up your new toy, be ready to try and plot some type of response measurements to see what set-up is best for your room. Larry introduced me to REW and we both highly recommend it to everyone. It takes probably an afternoon to set-up and get use to it. After that, you will love what does for you.

Again, welcome to the family/support group.

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post #1175 of 7126 Old 11-18-2008, 07:04 PM
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I'm very familiar with RTAs. I used to do extremely high-end car audio installations, we used an AudioControl 3050 in the day. Thing is, it came with its own special mic that was calibrated to the system. Do you use a calibrated mic on the PC, or do you just have to input the readings from the RS SPL meter? Does REW work as an RTA or is it all manual? I'm excited to know that something along those lines is available! I do know how to place the sub and look forward to all the "work", if you know what I mean

Here's the pic of the front wall of my room. It's amazing how PLAIN this picture makes the room look. I may have to take another one farther back to show how not plain it is.



Don't mind the Rotel power center on top of the sub. I know that's a horrible place for it, but since that sub is so whacked I don't really care at this point. It'll be back down at the bottom of the rack when I'm done.

The HTPC is homemade, it's my DVR, my TVersity streamer, and other things anyone would use an HTPC for. The image on the screen is the DVR menu, with a picture of me taking my Jeep up the rocks
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post #1176 of 7126 Old 11-18-2008, 07:27 PM
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^^

Robbie, Nice Set-Up Man!

Yeah, you can do RTA on REQ Wizard. I haven't tried it...yet. We can help you here or you can get even more help over at The Shack.

I would read up on the REW help files and, of course, download the software.

Larry
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post #1177 of 7126 Old 11-19-2008, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

Do you use a calibrated mic on the PC, or do you just have to input the readings from the RS SPL meter?

To answer your question about the mic, you can use the RS meter, but it is only good for about 3kHz (I also heard it is only good down to 15Hz.). The mic that they recommend for anything higher is the Behringer ECM8000 with a Behringer Xenyx 802 mixer. This mic combo can be professionally calibrated if you need more accuracy, but out of the box it is very good for HT use.

As Larry has mentioned, head over to the Shack and start reading. You will find a wealth of knowledge and great support.

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post #1178 of 7126 Old 11-19-2008, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weverb View Post

The mic that they recommend for anything higher is the Behringer ECM8000 with a Behringer Xenyx 802 mixer.

anyone know where I can get one of these. (he he)

Come on Friday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #1179 of 7126 Old 11-19-2008, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laugsbach View Post

anyone know where I can get one of these. (he he)

Come on Friday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Know where I can get a second EX? Just kidding!

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post #1180 of 7126 Old 11-19-2008, 02:37 PM
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The RS mic might work for me then. I won't have much interest yet in tuning the mains beyond setting levels anytime soon.
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post #1181 of 7126 Old 11-19-2008, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

I won't have much interest yet in tuning the mains beyond setting levels anytime soon.

That's what I thought too. You can ask Larry about it also.

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post #1182 of 7126 Old 11-19-2008, 02:49 PM
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I"m not going to pull out my 10 band stereo BSR EQ from 1982 to tune my system. (Yes, I still have it. Why? I don't know. I think it's a guy thing).
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post #1183 of 7126 Old 11-19-2008, 11:49 PM
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Has anyone blew their fuse on their sub before? I have an LFM-2 and pulled out the fuse and am assuming it's blowen because it's burnt. I hope it's nothing more serious that I have to send it back because I live in Hawaii and shippin is ~$100. Anyway, my question is where can I find a 20mm 1.6A slow blow fuse? Can I just go down to Radio Shack?
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post #1184 of 7126 Old 11-20-2008, 05:40 AM
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RadioShack will certainly have the fuse you need. The one by me has several pullout trays with fuses of different sizes and values.
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post #1185 of 7126 Old 11-20-2008, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

RadioShack will certainly have the fuse you need. The one by me has several pullout trays with fuses of different sizes and values.

Thank you. Didn't want to waste my time going down there if they didn't have it.
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post #1186 of 7126 Old 11-20-2008, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weverb View Post

That's what I thought too. You can ask Larry about it also.

Yep, it starts slow. I'll just set the levels to 75dB. Ok..not bad. Now, I'll play with running the sub hot by 3 - 5dB. Ok..something still is missing. Let me try this REW/BFD thing with the RS meter. WOW...what a change that made. I wonder what a better mic and a full range reading on the sub + mains sounds like...maybe I need an upgraded EQ...

and on, and on, and on it goes.
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post #1187 of 7126 Old 11-20-2008, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laugsbach View Post

Yep, it starts slow. I'll just set the levels to 75dB. Ok..not bad. Now, I'll play with running the sub hot by 3 - 5dB. Ok..something still is missing. Let me try this REW/BFD thing with the RS meter. WOW...what a change that made. I wonder what a better mic and a full range reading on the sub + mains sounds like...maybe I need an upgraded EQ...

and on, and on, and on it goes.

Exactly! I am looking for my fourth eq now! Larry went the other way with four subs!

By the way, my receiver does not have any type of built in correction/eq software.

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post #1188 of 7126 Old 11-20-2008, 01:57 PM
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Mine doesn't either. What kind of equalization you guys using? I've found in my past that I would rather have a 2 or 3 band parametric than a multi-band standard eq.
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post #1189 of 7126 Old 11-20-2008, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

Mine doesn't either. What kind of equalization you guys using? I've found in my past that I would rather have a 2 or 3 band parametric than a multi-band standard eq.

You are going to need an external amp to take advantage of an outboard eq. I am using a NAD T754 with a Sherbourn 5/5120A amp.

I am currently using a Yamaha YDP2006 digital 2-channel, 6 band parametric eq for my main L/R speakers. I am also using one for my center and subs. One channel for center and the other for subs. I have also had to add a Symetrix 551E to the subs to be able to eq below 20Hz. the YDP's don't go any lower. Actually I could not find a digital for under $300 that would go lower than 20Hz.

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/...%253DN,00.html


LL

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post #1190 of 7126 Old 11-20-2008, 02:27 PM
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Why could you not use it between the receiver and the sub? I was only talking about EQing the sub.

I'm using a Rotel 985 MK-I for my amp - so external amp already done. (See above picture, 2nd box from top)
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post #1191 of 7126 Old 11-20-2008, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

Why could you not use it between the receiver and the sub? I was only talking about EQing the sub.

I'm using a Rotel 985 MK-I for my amp - so external amp already done. (See above picture, 2nd box from top)

You can use it for the sub no problem. Most subs have their own amp. I was referring to mains/highs.

Most people start with a Behringer Feedback Destroyer (BFD) DSP1124P for eq'ing their sub. Here is a link to its info. I have one for sale (PM me) if you need/want one. It is much cheaper than the Yamaha or just about any other parametric eq and REW was designed around using it.

http://www.behringer.com/DSP1124P/?lang=ENG

Forgot to add, just about every room with only one sub will benefit from a eq on the sub.

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post #1192 of 7126 Old 11-20-2008, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weverb View Post

Forgot to add, just about every room with only one sub will benefit from a eq on the sub.

Amen, Father EQ, Amen.
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post #1193 of 7126 Old 11-24-2008, 05:01 PM
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Outlaw Audio has the LFM-1EX on sale for 20% off here.
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post #1194 of 7126 Old 11-24-2008, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by laugsbach View Post

Outlaw Audio has the LFM-1EX on sale for 20% off here.

I saw that. That's an awesome deal! $519 for an EX...

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post #1195 of 7126 Old 11-25-2008, 12:06 PM
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YAY! The wife hadn't ordered the +1 yet, looks like an EX is in our near future!!!

I got that in my email and looked over at her and said "Please tell me you didn't order yet!"
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post #1196 of 7126 Old 11-25-2008, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weverb View Post

You can use it for the sub no problem. Most subs have their own amp. I was referring to mains/highs.

Most people start with a Behringer Feedback Destroyer (BFD) DSP1124P for eq'ing their sub.

How funny, I used to use one of those when I was a live sound engineer for the floor monitors. I would have never thought of using one of those to EQ a sub!
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post #1197 of 7126 Old 11-27-2008, 03:38 AM
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I just dropped my $519 for a LFM-1 EX Sub. I was gonna get a SVS PC-12 NSD but, this thread changed my mind after I read it. (The 20% off helpped too)
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post #1198 of 7126 Old 11-27-2008, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute1 View Post

I just dropped my $519 for a LFM-1 EX Sub. I was gonna get a SVS PC-12 NSD but, this thread changed my mind after I read it. (The 20% off helpped too)

Welcome, Absolute1 and Happy Thanksgiving! I too picked up an EX on sale ($599 w/free shipping) as my first large sub (previous was a BIC H-100), and have been impressed with the value. We look forward to seeing your pics and graphs.
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post #1199 of 7126 Old 11-28-2008, 06:51 AM
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Thanks aj... I can post some pics, however I have no idea how to make those neet-o graphs I've see all over this forum. (I'm would like to learn though) For now will use the "turn it down please." wife response time to judge the Outlaw's performance. J/K
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post #1200 of 7126 Old 11-28-2008, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute1 View Post

Thanks aj... I can post some pics, however I have no idea how to make those neet-o graphs I've see all over this forum. (I'm would like to learn though)

We use a program called Room EQ Wizard. You can find out tons more at hometheatershack.


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For now will use the "turn it down please." wife response time to judge the Outlaw's performance. J/K

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