Official Outlaw Owners thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 7126 Old 12-31-2007, 11:53 AM
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Seems my extrapolation above based on the HT portion of Craigsub's test scores was misguided based on this from Craig:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=4365

"In response to this query from juiceblr: I have a BIC 100 & wanted to upgrade to the HSU VTF2 MK3 non turbo. I see the hsu gets a total pf 86 & the BIC gets 78. However, they both got 40 points in the home theatre portion of the test.
So, are they the same sound/quality/loudness etc. for home theatre? Should I upgrade or not?

Craigsub responded:
The BIC and Hsu are both comparable in regards to "home theater rumble", but the Hsu is well ahead of the BIC in terms of articulation and slam. Keep in mind, much of the home theater experience IS music ... so music performance should weigh heavily in one's decision, which is why the X-sub and BIC H-100 make for such an interesting pair of options.
"

So I'm back leaning to the LFM-1c and wishing I could pop for the LFM-1EX.

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post #122 of 7126 Old 12-31-2007, 12:15 PM
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Just pulled the trigger on the LFM-1c

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post #123 of 7126 Old 12-31-2007, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakeman02 View Post

...ED offers free shipping. Well at least up till now. I've read they are restructureing their prices as of the 1st so that may or may not continue.

eD doesn't offer free shipping out here to the middle of the Pacific. It would cost a minimum of $222 to ship an A2-250. Hsu and Outlaw shipping charges were approx. half that. My location dictates a heightened sensitivity to shipping and warranty issues that folks in the lower 48 may not have to deal with. YMMV.

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post #124 of 7126 Old 12-31-2007, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob A (SD) View Post

Just pulled the trigger on the LFM-1c

Great choice. I bought mine before XMAS and love it. I was expecting a big difference from my BA HTIB 8" sub, but it exceeded my expectations in every way. I didn't realize how much I was missing in the low frequency range. Things have been busy for me lately, but I'll post some pics when I get a chance. Let us know how it sounds when you get it hooked up.
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post #125 of 7126 Old 12-31-2007, 02:06 PM
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Wayne, et al,

I'll do just that and let folks know how the LFM-1c works for me. No question that the size of my room is larger (26' x 17' x 9' =~3978 cu ft) than what this sub is tailored for but.... like I said, we'll see I guess I got in under the wire too for the special pricing.

BTW this thread I started is what got me here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=965864

--Bob

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post #126 of 7126 Old 12-31-2007, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob A (SD) View Post

Just pulled the trigger on the LFM-1c

Likewise. I went down to Magnolia and tried get a discount on the $600 ML Dynamo. No deal. I REALLY like that sub, but couldn't stretch to the price. (I hate those of you who picked one up for $350 last year. )

So the LFM-1C is my choice B. Sorry, Outlaw. But you get the sale.

- Jasen.
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post #127 of 7126 Old 01-01-2008, 06:09 PM
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anyone running 2200's, what do you think of the performance? i just ordered my klipsch THX ultra2 system and for now, i'm gonna be powering them with a pioneer elite vsx-74 and was thinkin of pumpin some more power to them
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post #128 of 7126 Old 01-01-2008, 06:12 PM
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sorry, i just realized this was a sub forum
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post #129 of 7126 Old 01-01-2008, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasenj1 View Post

Likewise. I went down to Magnolia and tried get a discount on the $600 ML Dynamo. No deal. I REALLY like that sub, but couldn't stretch to the price. (I hate those of you who picked one up for $350 last year. )

So the LFM-1C is my choice B. Sorry, Outlaw. But you get the sale.

- Jasen.

You might end up liking this sub more than the ML Dynamo. Being a ported sub, it probably has more output than the Dynamo. Members here seem to like its music performance. I bet the people who bought Outlaw subs recently did so because of the lower price. I hope sub manufacturers pay attention here and start lowering prices instead raising them like they own the market.
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post #130 of 7126 Old 01-01-2008, 07:35 PM
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Hey guys. I've been making 'the decision' for a couple days now. I've needed a small, nice looking box with good sound quality and that little kick for movies. I like tight, crisp bass, punch if you will. I had all the latest greatest from the ID guys, ed, Outlaw, HSU, VSV...both the 250-350 range subs and the 500-600 ranges stuff on paper. I really want something that will blend in well with my Ascend 340ES fronts. I am NOT a bass head, but love a good kick on the right music. I am trying to stay small and effective for both music and HT. I know, I want it all...cheap. So its come down to four, maybe five subs. I eliminated eD, although the A5-350 was tempting but too long to wait and too big...and well, ugly. WAF is a significant factor here. What's left?

Outlaw LMF2 8" 150W $239 + ship
Outlaw LMF1Compact 10" 225W $339 + ship

HSU SFT1 8" 150 W $254 + ship
HSU SFT2 10" 200W $349 + ship

The size on all this is about the same. Small enough. My question for you guys is this. What do you think of the finish look on these subs. I gather the Outlaw is a bit more refined, anyone have a chance to look at both? Are there any features one unit has over the other. Specifically, the SFT2 vs. LMF1C? Are the amps comparable? I want to get this ball rolling asap.

I am leaning toward the LMF1C, and away from the 8" drivers. The Ascends can play fairly low on there own so I want the bigger driver to go a bit lower.

There is an outside chance I might consider a sealed sub, say the Epik Valor. But it is a couple bills more and somewhat bigger....I'm just hoping one of these ported subs will produce the kind of seamless blend I'm looking for. That's all for now. Thanks in advance for the help.
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post #131 of 7126 Old 01-01-2008, 11:15 PM
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Kpilk,

I went through something of a similar drill considering BIC H-100 on the low price end and both the A5-350 and Outlaw LFM-1EX at the other price extreme. I used various reviews plus Craigsub's scores. Initially I let myself be influenced solely by the "HT" scores until I read Craigsub's admonition that the "music" score has significance in HT set ups for movies too. At this point I was down to the H-100 ($239 delivered), LFM-1c ($396 delivered), and Hsu STF-2 ($379 delivered). The Outlaw LFM-1c and Hsu STF-2 are design brothers with a slightly larger amp and much nicer finish on the Outlaw easily justifying the few extra bucks. Both are much more musical than the H-100 which for me meant more full bass experience rather than just the visceral punch and boom that the H-100 would deliver. I feared upgrade fever should I pop for the H-100. I ended up opting for the LFM-1c where I felt most comfortable with capabilities and cost. If money wasn't a constraint it would have been the LFM-1EX over the VTF-3.3 and A5-350 et all.

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post #132 of 7126 Old 01-02-2008, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpilk View Post

What's left?
...
Are the amps comparable?

If you're looking for some arbitrary criteria to tilt the favor one way or another, how about kid-proofness? The LFM-1C is an all downward design - port and cone. The STF-2 has a rear facing port which might tempt little ones to use it as a place to stash toys.

Also, I've read that placement flexibility favors the all downward design. You don't have to give the sub as much space to breathe. (I don't KNOW this, just what I've read over the past month or so of doing my own hunting.)

Yes, the amps are comparable. They are the same design: BASH. If you look at them both in their galleries, they appear to be EXACTLY the same other than the printing. As Bob said, they are both designed by the same person, Dr. Hsu.

- Jasen.
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post #133 of 7126 Old 01-02-2008, 08:39 AM
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I appreciate the response guys. I've decided on the LMF-1c. It seems like the way to go and I'm glad someone has noticed the difference in finish. Going to order today and get this part behind me. Thanks again...on to the amp/surrounds.
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post #134 of 7126 Old 01-02-2008, 09:34 AM
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May be a stupid question, if Frequency Response is:
one port plugged:
16Hz. -180Hz. +/- 2 dB
no ports plugged:
22Hz. -180Hz. +/- 2 dB

Why would anyone not plug one port? Or why would there be 2 ports at all? I am considering the LFM-1EX, having a hard time since it's not on the Craigsub list. Looking for a HT rating of at least 44, "small" and "good looking"... that's not supposed to sound like a personal ad )
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post #135 of 7126 Old 01-02-2008, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcat View Post

May be a stupid question, if Frequency Response is:
one port plugged:
16Hz. -180Hz. +/- 2 dB
no ports plugged:
22Hz. -180Hz. +/- 2 dB

Why would anyone not plug one port? Or why would there be 2 ports at all? I am considering the LFM-1EX, having a hard time since it's not on the Craigsub list. Looking for a HT rating of at least 44, "small" and "good looking"... that's not supposed to sound like a personal ad )

As I understand it, 22Hz mode should give more max output (dB) while 16Hz mode gives more extension. For high-level listening, 16Hz mode would experience dynamic range compression sooner than 22Hz mode.
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post #136 of 7126 Old 01-02-2008, 09:40 AM
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I had a horrible scare yesterday. I was tuning my system and started hearing a horrible rattle from my Outlaw. Had me scared pretty fierce. All was good though, When I flipped it over I found half a small candy bar wrapper under it lol. That thing like pulls stuff under it. That’s the 2nd time something got under it and made weird noises, last time it was a pen which seriously screwed up the sound lol. Those ports must do some serious sucking.

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post #137 of 7126 Old 01-02-2008, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcat View Post

I am considering the LFM-1EX, having a hard time since it's not on the Craigsub list. Looking for a HT rating of at least 44, "small" and "good looking"... that's not supposed to sound like a personal ad )

Since the LFM-1EX is designed by Dr. Hsu, take a look at it's blood brother (basically the same except finish, port locations), the Hsu VTF3.3 for a very good idea of what the LFM-1EX would garner:
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III w/o Turbo ($699 ID): 91 points (45-46)

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post #138 of 7126 Old 01-02-2008, 12:48 PM
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Pulled the trigger on the Outlaw LMF-1c. Then, like the OCD type I seem to be around stereo stuff, immediately started to think about a sealed sub. The Epik Valor reared its ugly head. In the end, a couple hundred more dollars, a definite increase in size and weight, and I settled back into the Outlaw. That 15" driver on the Valor was tempting. I hope the ported design suits my taste. If money wasn't an issue, I may have gone toward the sealed idea a little stronger. I hate this stuff.
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post #139 of 7126 Old 01-02-2008, 12:53 PM
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Kpilk,

I've never had any issues with my custom 18" ported sub (based on the 189ES driver, 6 of which in refrigerator sized cabinets driven by 1600w were used in theaters for the 1974 movie "Earthquake") that is mated to my modified bi-amped Magneplanar IIIa's. Well except for the early days when it would launch itself vertically off a hardwood floor Having carpet underneath solved that issue back then and these days it is in a carpeted room so.... You can see it in the picture above in the rear left corner.

The fact that the LFM-1c is ported doesn't concern me a whit. Matter of fact I'd rather it be ported than sealed. I know. Lots of discussion is available on the respective merits of both designs, but still.... that's the way I vote

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post #140 of 7126 Old 01-08-2008, 08:28 AM
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Ordered my LFM1 Compact on 1/3. Arrived this am (Missouri). At work so no opening yet. Do you guys know if the metal spikes and discs are included with the Compact. Thanks.
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post #141 of 7126 Old 01-08-2008, 10:03 AM
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I believe the LFM-1 Compact are now shipping with taller plastic spikes. Outlaw confirmed they perform better with the extra elevation from the floor. They are also supposed to come with dimpled discs, but some people have reported not getting them in the box. A quick call to Outlaw would fix that if you need them.

My LFM-1EX arrived yesterday. The box is HUGE, significantly bigger than the box my LFM-1+ came in. As soon as I can find a way to get it home the LFM-1+ goes to the bedroom and the LFM-1EX goes into the home theater.
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post #142 of 7126 Old 01-08-2008, 10:32 AM
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Outlaw LFM-2 just arrived and is paired with Totem Hawks run by an Outlaw RR2150. Great results! The LFM-2 blends very nicely and fills a fairly large space very well. Plays deep electronic music like massive attack with no issues at all.
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post #143 of 7126 Old 01-08-2008, 10:43 AM
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Congrats lanion!! My LFM2 is on its way back to Outlaw (replaced with the LFM-1EX), but while I had it I found the LFM2 to be a GREAT musical sub. If I was looking to augment a 2-ch system it would be on my shortlist
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post #144 of 7126 Old 01-08-2008, 10:54 AM
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ironically I have an LFM-1EX and a HSU MBM crammed into a *much* smaller room ( 800 cubic feet )... with an Outlaw 7900. I may have too much overhead in there
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post #145 of 7126 Old 01-08-2008, 12:03 PM
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Current packaging of the LFM-1c only includes the taller plastic spiked feet reflective of a design change by Outlaw. The manual is still version one which indicates metal spikes plus dimpled discs as being supplied.

Several of us (laulau, etc.) have initiated on line customer service trouble tickets requesting dimpled discs. In each case the response has been prompt indicating a set would be mailed out.

I suspect eventually the packaging will include the discs and that the manual will be revised to reflect the use of the taller plastic spiked feet.

There's more on this subject in the Outlaw sub sale thread (which should have been posted in this thread, but.....)

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post #146 of 7126 Old 01-08-2008, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by openhelix View Post


My LFM-1EX arrived yesterday. The box is HUGE, significantly bigger than the box my LFM-1+ came in. As soon as I can find a way to get it home the LFM-1+ goes to the bedroom and the LFM-1EX goes into the home theater.


I'm jealous - been waiting for my EX to arrive. FEd Ex tracking says it will be here tomorrow. Keeping fingers crossed! I have an new auralex gramma just waiting to accommodate.

If you have to tell people how good you are, you're not as good as you think.
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post #147 of 7126 Old 01-08-2008, 07:35 PM
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Mine finally arrived after 6pm this evening. I've posted some unboxing photos here. I included a picture of the new plastic spikes.

I haven't had time to do any serious setup. I started with the crossover at 80 HZ but am now using 60 Hz. Seems to sound better.

The wife and I are watching the third Pirates of the Caribbean movie right now. Sub adds nice solid bottom end.

More later.

- Jasen.

P.S. I forgot to add... The sub has taken its first victim. I was listening to the Oliphant battle in "Return of the King" and heard a strange crash from the other room. The wife and I went to investigate. A wooden shutter she had hanging on the wall fell down and broke apart. Oops. The wife is not pleased.
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post #148 of 7126 Old 01-08-2008, 07:46 PM
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Got my EX today after having to wait an extra day because I wasn't home to sign for it yesterday. My Gramma arrived today, too: nice timing. My first impression of the EX: holy crap. The box size of my old Polk PSW650 isn't much smaller than the EX and it has two 10's vs one 12 in the Outlaw. I expected improvement, but didn't expect it to be this dramatic. The EX digs so much lower on movie effects (watched clips from War of the Worlds, Transformers, House of Flying Daggers, etc). It has much more visceral impact than the Polk. I realize now that I could have gone with a smaller Outlaw sub and still gotten a noticeable improvement in sound. I'm completely satisfied with the EX so far and glad I cancelled my PB13Ultra order and went with the Outlaw. I saved about $1k, got a smaller enclosure, and am pleased with what I got. Now waiting to see what Outlaw's new receiver is when time comes replace my 1050 (probably when I get a BluRay player).
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post #149 of 7126 Old 01-08-2008, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob A (SD) View Post

Current packaging of the LFM-1c only includes the taller plastic spiked feet reflective of a design change by Outlaw. The manual is still version one which indicates metal spikes plus dimpled discs as being supplied.

Several of us (laulau, etc.) have initiated on line customer service trouble tickets requesting dimpled discs. In each case the response has been prompt indicating a set would be mailed out.

I suspect eventually the packaging will include the discs and that the manual will be revised to reflect the use of the taller plastic spiked feet.

There's more on this subject in the Outlaw sub sale thread (which should have been posted in this thread, but.....)

I received the dimple discs yesterday via USPS, so kudos to Outlaw customer support. After extensive testing I've discovered that the discs allow the subwoofer to produce a flat response down to 10hz...just kidding . But they do look nice and add about another 1/4" or so of clearance. It's been a few weeks since I got my Compact and I'm still having a blast rediscovering my music collection.

@Bob,
Glad to read (in the Outlaw Sale thread) that you were pleased with the Compact. That's a pretty good sized room you're trying fill.

...
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post #150 of 7126 Old 01-08-2008, 08:04 PM
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Jasenj1,

Sounds like you're pleased with your choice despite your wife having to now sanity check everything hanging in the house Nice pix too BTW.

txmatt,

I found your comments interesting about not only the great EX performance but your thinking that a smaller Outlaw sub would still have been an improvement over the old Polk. Were you referring to the discontinued LFM-1 or the new LFM-1 compact in that context? Just curious.

--Bob

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