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post #1 of 32 Old 07-23-2007, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi, I just got my SVS PB-10 NSD, and as with my last sub (a Velodyne CHT-8), it has an auto-off sensing feature. The problem is that it doesn't always come on when I'd like it to (for example when watching TV, because we watch at a much lower volume than we do with movies). I've tried turning the sub's gain down and the receiver's sub-out up, but it doesn't really solve the problem. Now, I know the solution is to just leave the sub on all the time, but that seems like it would be constantly drawing power (is it drawing much? It seems like it must be drawing enough to warrant a signal-sensing feature). So, I'm wondering, would it be possible to use a current-sensing switch (like they use with 12V triggers, for example, http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...seBVCookie=Yes), so that when my receiver turned on, my sub would too, and when my receiver goes off, so does the sub? Or would this give some sort of adverse results?
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post #2 of 32 Old 07-23-2007, 09:48 AM
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I have the same problem with mine, but I can see the light from where I sit, so when I see the red light (signifying power save mode), I just bump up the volume a little until it turns on. Or I just figure there isn't a lot of low end stuff happening and wait it out.

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post #3 of 32 Old 07-23-2007, 09:59 AM
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Don't use the Auto-On function and leave the subwoofer ON all the time.

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post #4 of 32 Old 07-23-2007, 10:05 AM
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If your receiver has a switched outlet, you can also just plug your sub into that.

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post #5 of 32 Old 07-23-2007, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eugovector View Post

If your receiver has a switched outlet, you can also just plug your sub into that.

I don't think receiver switched outlets are intended for sub woofer use are they? I would suggest turning the auto-off mode off also. Are you sure it is not turning on when you have it at a very low volume? I have that sub and it is very hard to tell when it is off at low listening levels. Is there a power light on the back of it? I have mine in an enclosure so I can not see the back of it.
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post #6 of 32 Old 07-23-2007, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

I don't think receiver switched outlets are intended for sub woofer use are they? .

I use mine, works fine.

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post #7 of 32 Old 07-23-2007, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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There is a power light on the back of it. It's red when it's in standby mode, and green when it's on. It's usually red when I'm watching TV--even when there's actually some bass there. Right now, I'm just leaving the sub on all the time, but like I said, I was concerned that it's drawing a significant amount of power. Any idea of how much power it draws when it's not working? I thought the switched outlets weren't a good idea either--all I have running off of mine is a fan. I could be wrong though
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post #8 of 32 Old 07-23-2007, 11:31 AM
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you could get a kill-o-watt and that would tell you for sure.

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post #9 of 32 Old 07-23-2007, 11:54 AM
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No, switched receiver outlets, for subs, are not a great idea. They don't fulfill the power demands of most smaller subs, let alone mid to larger size subs.

My PB12-NSD usually turns on when my digital master level at the receiver reaches -67.5... for radio or CDs. For TV, it comes on a little sooner. This is one of the reasons that when I'm listening to music at a very low volume level, I switch the LFE setting from subwoofer to mains on the receiver. Sounds like if you are usually listening at low volume levels, you may have to leave it on all the time.

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post #10 of 32 Old 07-23-2007, 12:21 PM
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I have an HSU with the same issue. I believe that I read in the sub manual to just leave it on all the time... it will not use that much more power. And now when I go into the living room in the middle of the night I have a green nightlight.
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post #11 of 32 Old 07-23-2007, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ressom View Post

I have an HSU with the same issue. I believe that I read in the sub manual to just leave it on all the time... it will not use that much more power. And now when I go into the living room in the middle of the night I have a green nightlight.

Yes, this is most definitely the best option. The power usage, although it is really tiny to begin with, is no different because even when a sub goes into "hibernation" when it's in Auto-ON mode, the amplifier stays on.

But some subs actually don't have the choice of being always ON; it's either OFF or it's Auto-ON. I'm not sure how the PB-10 works.

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post #12 of 32 Old 07-23-2007, 05:17 PM
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The P/S always draws power, but the amp only increases the power draw when it has a signal to amplify. The auto feature should disconnect the amp from the P/S. So, I wouldn't worry about the power consumption if left on all the time. I have yet to have my SVS fail to power on regardless of the source. Maybe I will try turning the AVR all the way down and slowly increase it until the sub turns on.

Some AVRs allow you to have different speaker set ups and gain levels for different input sources. Are you sure you don't have an issue when you select the TV input that the settings are not doing bass management or are not pumping the same signal level to the sub? Just a thought.

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post #13 of 32 Old 07-23-2007, 05:36 PM
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Eugo, switched outlets on receivers are for low draw items only, like disc players and turntables. Most are rated (and actually wired) for 200 watts max.

Rick, most subwoofer auto on/off circuits work by disconnecting the driver voice coil(s) from the amp -- idle current still flows through the amp. You can verify this yourself (sorry, you'll have to pull your PB10 out of the enclosure a couple times) -- leave it on the AUTO position for an hour, feel the amp plate with your hand. Now an hour in the ON position -- you should feel the same gentle warmth.

All powered SVS subs have the option of a solid ON, a great feature.

The Craftsman auto-switch requires a significant ampage to turn on -- it's designed to turn on vacs when a table saw is run -- unless you have a receiver with a high start surge it may not trigger. There are some audio triggered switches for $100 or so -- PM me if you have to have one and I'll look them up.
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post #14 of 32 Old 07-23-2007, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ransac View Post

Some AVRs allow you to have different speaker set ups and gain levels for different input sources. Are you sure you don't have an issue when you select the TV input that the settings are not doing bass management or are not pumping the same signal level to the sub? Just a thought.

Thanks for the info. I didn't think about the possibility that maybe my bass management is set differently for TV. I don't think it is, but I'll give that a check.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggunnell
The Craftsman auto-switch requires a significant ampage to turn on -- it's designed to turn on vacs when a table saw is run -- unless you have a receiver with a high start surge it may not trigger. There are some audio triggered switches for $100 or so -- PM me if you have to have one and I'll look them up.

I didn't really know anything about that particular switch--just that some people used it with their projector screens, so I really had no idea about its suitability. If I'm looking at something in the neighborhood of $100, then I'm not interested Even if the amp is idly drawing power, I can't imagine I could justify that expenditure.

FWIW, I had the same problem with the Velodyne, but I never really worked at fixing it (beyond the usual stuff). Oh, and one other piece of info that might be valuable. I'm running the sub out into a BFD, and of course it's cutting down the signal somewhat. Obviously I've tried to compensate by turning up the sub out anyway--but the BFD could be part of the problem.
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post #15 of 32 Old 07-25-2007, 12:00 PM
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Most auto on/off on subs are annoying. When I got my first VTF-2 a number of years ago
the auto on/off sucked. I had to take it to HSU headquartes (live about 50 miles away from
there headquarters) and they opened the sub up and remmoved a jumper to disable
the auto on/off feature. I drove the distance because 1 wanted a second VTF-2, and
if I picked up the second sub, and paid cash there would be no shipping costs, and
I didn't have to pay sales tax.

I've have a Velodyne ULD 12" sub, which I bought in 1992, and It's been plugged in and on
for 15 yrs (except for a small period of time after the Northridge earthquick). It consumes
an extremely small amount of power...and still works just fine.

If your svs sub has a switch to turn off the auto on/off then that's great. Leave the sub
on all the time. Bass is present even when listening to TV at moderate levels.
Just my opinion, somebody can jump in and give another POV....although you've recieved
alot of good suggestions already........vardo
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post #16 of 32 Old 07-25-2007, 01:10 PM
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No, you are certainly right about the 100W max on the switched outlet (I have a Pioneer VSX-D850S receiver), but I need someone with an electrical background to help me.

As I understand, Watts x Volts = Amps, so 100W of 110V gives me about 1 amp of current draw.

Now, my subwoofer amp (Athena AS-P300) should have capacitors in it that store the electricity. For instance, if I turn my sub off while a movie is playing, it will continue to output bass for a second or two, presumedly drawing off the power remaining in the capacitors.

So, during a scene with little bass, the amp draw should be close to 0. During a heavy bass scene, the actual power use will increase, draining the capacitors more quickly, but would the capacitors ever draw more than 1 amp?

For my amp, which is rated at 100W RMS and 300W peak, I'm thinking that I'm fine, that the outlet is rated high enough for the RMS draw, andthe capacitors should help accomedate the peak draw. For a larger amp, I could see where this would be a potential problem. Am I wrong?

Also, for the sub in question, the SVS PB10 NSD, the amp is a "300w Bash amp", is this 300 Peak, or 300 RMS?

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post #17 of 32 Old 07-25-2007, 01:22 PM
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Rick, chained electronic components work best if each unit sees a reasonable voltage swing at it's input. Putting all the gain at one stage will potentially overdrive the output stage of that unit and the input stage of the following unit, while the low gain required elsewhere to compensate may underdrive a following input.

Your subs not staying on is a clue that the V-out from your Behringer is lower than the sub mfgrs designed for. Increase the gain on your Behringer by at least 3dB, and decrease your SVS's plate amp gain. Try to keep your PB10's gain knob between 9 and 12 o'clock, and do further gain adjustments by adjusting the subwoofer output level in your receiver setup menus.

You may even get a little punchier bass by giving the input stage of the SVS a bigger voltage swing to work with (obviously don't take this too far!)
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post #18 of 32 Old 07-25-2007, 01:40 PM
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Eugo, you've got the right idea. But look at your Athena's spec plate on the back of the sub -- does it show a max amp draw?

At moderate volumes you are probably OK -- at higher volumes on bass heavy material, you might be able to hear a difference by plugging the sub directly into the wall. But since what you've been doing has been working . . .

The BASH amps SVS uses that I have owned don't have as much onboard capacitive storage, and benefit more from a low resistance path from outlet to amp for peak performance. I would not plug a BASH amp into anything other than a wall outlet or a surge protector designed for high amp draw equipment -- if peak performance is a consideration.
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post #19 of 32 Old 07-25-2007, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggunnell View Post

Eugo, you've got the right idea. But look at your Athena's spec plate on the back of the sub -- does it show a max amp draw?


I'll check it out when I get home.

Mostly, I need an easy way to turn my sub on/off. There's no on/off switch, and it makes an audible buzz when powered, even in the auto-off position. I'd get it fixed under warrenty, but I'd have to ship it in, I only paid $115 shipped new, and it works as is. I'll save my $35 shipping, and put it towards my new sub after I get out of this damn apartment.

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post #20 of 32 Old 07-25-2007, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggunnell View Post

Rick, chained electronic components work best if each unit sees a reasonable voltage swing at it's input. Putting all the gain at one stage will potentially overdrive the output stage of that unit and the input stage of the following unit, while the low gain required elsewhere to compensate may underdrive a following input.

Your subs not staying on is a clue that the V-out from your Behringer is lower than the sub mfgrs designed for. Increase the gain on your Behringer by at least 3dB, and decrease your SVS's plate amp gain. Try to keep your PB10's gain knob between 9 and 12 o'clock, and do further gain adjustments by adjusting the subwoofer output level in your receiver setup menus.

You may even get a little punchier bass by giving the input stage of the SVS a bigger voltage swing to work with (obviously don't take this too far!)

What you say makes sense. I re-calibrated the sub yesterday, and I gained myself a little room to play. I had the gain on the sub up around 1 o'clock, maybe I'll try to put it down a little bit, and bump it up at the receiver (where I've got some room to play). That may increase the total voltage that the sub sees anyway. At the very least, it should help to balance the gain across the signal chain.

The PB-10 NSD does have the option of defeating the auto-off feature, and I've just been using that and leaving it on all the time. You guys have convinced me that it probably doesn't draw that much power. I'm still working on getting it dialed in the way I like it (although, I have to say, I like it a lot already!) So, things may change once I get it fully set up--although I'm going to guess that I'll still have to leave it on.
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post #21 of 32 Old 07-25-2007, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drrick View Post

The PB-10 NSD does have the option of defeating the auto-off feature, and I've just been using that and leaving it on all the time. You guys have convinced me that it probably doesn't draw that much power. I'm still working on getting it dialed in the way I like it (although, I have to say, I like it a lot already!) So, things may change once I get it fully set up--although I'm going to guess that I'll still have to leave it on.

The power draw will be identical whether you use the Auto-On function or simply leave the sub ON all the time.

If it's any comfort to you, my subwoofer has been ON constantly for almost 4 years, now, with absolutely no problems.

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post #22 of 32 Old 07-25-2007, 03:43 PM
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Eugo, your current system is working -- no fuses are blowing -- a cheap power strip with a switch, placed on top of the sub or near your receiver where it's easy to reach, is one inexpensive although somewhat inconvenient solution.

Just out of curiosity, does the sub hum if the input RCA cable is disconnected? If it doesn't, it may not be the sub -- have you tried a different RCA cable?
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post #23 of 32 Old 07-25-2007, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggunnell View Post

Eugo, your current system is working -- no fuses are blowing -- a cheap power strip with a switch, placed on top of the sub or near your receiver where it's easy to reach, is one inexpensive although somewhat inconvenient solution.

Just out of curiosity, does the sub hum if the input RCA cable is disconnected? If it doesn't, it may not be the sub -- have you tried a different RCA cable?

Yep, I was using a powerstip before. Went with this approach because it cuts down on unsightly cords, and takes one step out of the process.

No amperage rating on my sub, though the fuse is only a 1.25 amp fuse, so it can't being drawing more than that.

The sub hums when only the powercord is connected to the wall, no other connections. I've tried two different outlets on different sides of my apartment, but I haven't gone as far as taking it to work and trying it there. It's 99% the sub.

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post #24 of 32 Old 07-25-2007, 08:27 PM
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Yeah, Eugo, that would be the sub . . .
Actually I think your current solution is a good one considering the low draw of the sub. Good thinking to check the fuse rating

Rick, if and when you have time, post over in the official SVS support thread here and let us know how your PB10 is doing!
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post #25 of 32 Old 07-26-2007, 01:58 PM
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I leave my PB10 on all the time.
I shot an email to SVS about this, and here is their reply...

Hi Steve,

That is fine, I've had various SVS subwoofer amps on 24/7 for 3-4 years now with no problems.. The amp will draw about 20 wattsthe same as a small night light.

Tom V.
SVS
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post #26 of 32 Old 09-10-2007, 02:11 PM
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U can use a power relay connected to the reciever outlet... i have been using this for years to power on my 2. amp
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post #27 of 32 Old 11-06-2007, 10:28 PM
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I have a small Yamaha subwoofer (YST-MSW10) that is adequate for the bedroom but its auto-off feature turns the unit off unless the volume is higher than a comfortable level. I just want to disable the auto-off feature, but it has no switch or removable jumper to to do that. Anyone know how I can hack this thing to disable the auto-off feature?
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post #28 of 32 Old 11-07-2007, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferchl View Post

I have a small Yamaha subwoofer (YST-MSW10) that is adequate for the bedroom but its auto-off feature turns the unit off unless the volume is higher than a comfortable level. I just want to disable the auto-off feature, but it has no switch or removable jumper to to do that. Anyone know how I can hack this thing to disable the auto-off feature?

Is there no way to just leave it ON all the time?

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post #29 of 32 Old 11-07-2007, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

Is there no way to just leave it ON all the time?

According to the manual, no.

Is your subwoofer output on your AVR all the way up?

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post #30 of 32 Old 11-07-2007, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferchl View Post

I have a small Yamaha subwoofer (YST-MSW10) that is adequate for the bedroom but its auto-off feature turns the unit off unless the volume is higher than a comfortable level. I just want to disable the auto-off feature, but it has no switch or removable jumper to to do that. Anyone know how I can hack this thing to disable the auto-off feature?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

Is there no way to just leave it ON all the time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Schempp View Post

According to the manual, no.

Yeah, that's a real PITA. Does your subwoofer have both L/R inputs that you could connect with a Y-splitter, ferchl? Sometimes this can help.

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