Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #271 of 20379 Old 09-17-2007, 03:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 9,876
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 464 Post(s)
Liked: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post

No, I never assumed a 1:1 relationship, but neither are resonators 100%/0% devices. I said the distortion and compression at the point in which the 15" driver is working the hardest (in between the two resonances, biased heavily towards the lowest resonance), will definitely affect the movement of the passive radiators. To assume you can just throw the 15" driver into over excursion, without reprimand, would be a mistake, and I doubt Mark is doing this in the BMF, especially looking at the 1000 watt amplifier.

If I recall correctly Mark has previously stated that the BMF will be very controlled with low compression. That means the 15" driver in the box is able to push the 18" passive radiators on the outside of the box to near their limits without hitting it's own limit when it runs out of power.
Stereodude is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #272 of 20379 Old 09-17-2007, 05:24 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
ssabripo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Plantation, Floriduh
Posts: 6,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Seth,
with all due respect, I would kindly ask that you take this conversation out of this thread if you don't mind....Lets focus on the Epik subs
ssabripo is offline  
post #273 of 20379 Old 09-17-2007, 05:50 AM
 
craigsub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 11,328
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

Seth,
with all due respect, I would kindly ask that you take this conversation out of this thread if you don't mind....Lets focus on the Epik subs

Sherv, Seth did not bring the BMF into this thread in the first place.

While I agree that we should be focusing on Epik subs, with all due respect, you should chastise those who brought a comparison of the BMF and Conquest into this thread.
craigsub is offline  
post #274 of 20379 Old 09-17-2007, 06:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
SoundsGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,661
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Kuypers View Post

A single Valor will not outperform a Fathom, nor was it designed to do so.

...there are OTHER sealed subwoofers on the way from Epik.

Which sealed Epik sub is designed to outperform the sound quality of a Fathom?
SoundsGood is offline  
post #275 of 20379 Old 09-17-2007, 06:07 AM
 
craigsub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 11,328
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
A Quadpack of Valors for $2000 could be one spectacular sealed set up ... And it will be fun to see what Chad has planned for his higher end sealed offerings ...
craigsub is offline  
post #276 of 20379 Old 09-17-2007, 06:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
SoundsGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,661
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

And it will be fun to see what Chad has planned for his higher end sealed offerings ...

Yep... that's exactly what I'm waiting for.
SoundsGood is offline  
post #277 of 20379 Old 09-17-2007, 06:16 AM
 
craigsub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 11,328
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
After this weekend, when my Fathoms leave ... and my Hsu pair are sold ... and a few other subs are likely to be sold, I will be needing some serious new gear.

Chad ... I am thinking a Valor, Castle and a Conquest ... For a start.
craigsub is offline  
post #278 of 20379 Old 09-17-2007, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
ssabripo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Plantation, Floriduh
Posts: 6,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

While I agree that we should be focusing on Epik subs, with all due respect, you should chastise those who brought a comparison of the BMF and Conquest into this thread.

ugh.....would you mind explaining to me where exactly am I chastising anyone here???? which one of the words in this sentence is not in an amicable way? you know, since my english is not good and all
Quote:


Seth,
with all due respect, I would kindly ask that you take this conversation out of this thread if you don't mind....Lets focus on the Epik subs

ssabripo is offline  
post #279 of 20379 Old 09-17-2007, 06:51 AM
 
craigsub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 11,328
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

ugh.....would you mind explaining to me where exactly am I chastising anyone here???? which one of the words in this sentence is not in an amicable way? you know, since my english is not good and all

ugh ..... Would you mind explaining to me where I said you WERE chastising anyone here? Would you show where I said you were not being amicable ?

I merely suggested that you, as the thread opener, should chastise those, who brought into an Epik thread, other subwoofers. I think that especially goes to mentioning subwoofers that are not even on the market yet.
craigsub is offline  
post #280 of 20379 Old 09-17-2007, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
ssabripo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Plantation, Floriduh
Posts: 6,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
ah....gotcha
ssabripo is offline  
post #281 of 20379 Old 09-17-2007, 07:44 AM
 
craigsub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 11,328
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

ah....gotcha

And it WAS fun typing "ugh" in an open forum ...
craigsub is offline  
post #282 of 20379 Old 09-17-2007, 08:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mark Seaton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 6,004
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 215
Hi guys,

Sorry this has strayed off topic, but hopefully this can wrap this up. If there is further discussion on the topic of the BMF, let's take it to another thread here, the AV123 threads on it, or even my forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post

Yes, but the passive radiator is being driven by the excursion of the 15" driver. When the 15" driver starts to give up, the movement of the passive radiator is affected, as well, no? The same way a driver's performance can be limited by it's voice coil capability, no?

You can't just ignore the excursion of the 15" driver. Sure, it'll exert less, given that two passive radiators alleviate the low and high end, but you're still limited by the excursion of the 15" driver in the mid-low end of the passband (25hz?), and it's 2nd and 3rd order distortion products will also drive those passive radiators (higher order is limited by the upper Hemholtz resonator), along with movement limitation of the passive radiators when the 15" driver starts to compress.

I've done a good bit of research and comparison on the designs as to why so many sounded horrid, and what their strengths and weaknesses are. Sure, the driver needs to remain linear. The reality is that even at the point of maximum excursion above low frequency tuning, the output is still greater per driver excursion than would be observed from the driver directly radiating. Above this frequency range, the loading of the front PR gives it a huge advantage in required excursion per output.

Quote:


Low-end performance in a reflex system is limited by the performance a bit above tuning. The bass reflex 18" driver's low-end limitation also lies around these mid-low frequencies. Since both subwoofers are limited by the driver's excursion in the same region, the 18" driver, having more displacement, will also have more low-end performance, since it's limited less than a 15" driver.

Am I wrong here? Maybe I was misunderstood, before?

It would be presumptive of me to assume what Chad's driver is capable of. The reality is that the resulting output capability of the bandpass system is closer to that of a conventional design with a larger or higher excursion driver than used.

Quote:


Oh, and Mark, do you mind sharing the upper-end limitation of the BMF? Where it begins to roll off?

The response is pretty well flat to 80Hz, maybe 1-3dB down from the response maximum. More than enough to deliver strong attack and impact in a common home theater use.

And now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood..." Daniel H. Burnham
Mark Seaton is offline  
post #283 of 20379 Old 09-17-2007, 09:12 AM
Member
 
DOOM136's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I think the boys at Epik need to hurry up and send some products to Craig for testing. I am almost ready to pull the trigger on getting a sub, not sure on the Epik or the SVS.
DOOM136 is offline  
post #284 of 20379 Old 09-17-2007, 09:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
SoundsGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,661
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOOM136 View Post

I think the boys at Epik need to hurry up and send some products to Craig for testing. I am almost ready to pull the trigger on getting a sub, not sure on the Epik or the SVS.

I agree.
SoundsGood is offline  
post #285 of 20379 Old 09-17-2007, 10:50 AM
Advanced Member
 
04FLHRCI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 777
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Ditto, the Conquest may keep me from the DIY project I've been thinking about...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundsGood View Post

I agree.

04FLHRCI is offline  
post #286 of 20379 Old 09-17-2007, 02:13 PM
Member
 
johnnyseychelles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for taking the time to talk with me last Friday evening. You were patient enough to listen to my wants/needs and in the end I was torn between the Knight and the Castle, but decided (at that point on the Castle).

When I went online this morning to place my order, I started to have 2nd thougts about moving up to the Tower (just another 100bucks) for some added down low plumbing with the bigger enclosure.

Problem is....i didn't discuss the merits of the Tower with you and want your opinion on this. From our conversation it seemed you felt pretty confident the Castle could compete with the new PB13Ultra both SPL and SQ. Will the Tower maintain equal footing with the Castle, as far as sound quality? For a mere 100bucks i'll take the added output at the lowest frequencies, IF and ONLY IF it doesn't come at the cost of any sound quality.

I know you are ultra busy these days, but if you could give me your input on my concerns, I'll get the order placed today.

BTW.....I am completely thrilled with the shipping costs of <100 to Cali. Luckily, my company pays the freight forwarding to American Samoa!

Thanks in advance,

John from Samoa
johnnyseychelles is offline  
post #287 of 20379 Old 09-17-2007, 02:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
SoundsGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,661
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyseychelles View Post

IF and ONLY IF it doesn't come at the cost of any sound quality.

I'm with ya. Other than the physical size of the box (smaller is better for me), sound quality is "priority one."

By the way, from my email dealings with Chad, he seems like a great guy to work with.
SoundsGood is offline  
post #288 of 20379 Old 09-17-2007, 03:15 PM
Member
 
johnnyseychelles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Re: Chad, he seems like a great guy to work with.

Absolutely...He spent half an hour on the phone with me, discussing all things subwoofer. Beyond his knowledge and reputation i was pleasantly suprised that he was more than willing to talk about alternatives/options non Epik. He didn't have a single negative thing to say about competitiors' products, but his conviction in his own products were more than apparent. His obvious passion for his creations are infectious and I can't wait to experience some Epik goodness firsthand. I could be wrong, but I feel pretty good about my choice to wait for the launch of his subwoofer line of products. I would have liked to wait for some more reviews to hear some opinions comparing Epik Castle or Tower vs new Ultra, but the bug has hit me and I can't wait any longer! I'm gonna gamble that my choice will be close if not better and absolute VALUE either way.

FWIW: My other options/considerations (pretty wide range of cost/performance...but I felt all have exceptional value)

Ed A5-350
HSU VTF3-HO
Rythmik semi DIY 15" direct Servo kit
PB13 Ultra
johnnyseychelles is offline  
post #289 of 20379 Old 09-17-2007, 04:26 PM
tkc
Member
 
tkc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I think the names of these subs are great: Castle, Knight -- perhaps the smallest sealed offering should be called the Pawn!
tkc is offline  
post #290 of 20379 Old 09-17-2007, 10:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Ironmike86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Washington 98047
Posts: 1,710
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOOM136 View Post

I think the boys at Epik need to hurry up and send some products to Craig for testing. I am almost ready to pull the trigger on getting a sub, not sure on the Epik or the SVS.

Me too. Nobody owns one they can give their opinions on?? Specs and price Epik seems a better buy. Except the SVS PB12+ is on sale now. But my question is would the Caliber for $100 less sound better? Especially when you don't need a finish. Seems most parts are made in the USA except the amp?? Wonder how they keep the price so low. Probably let a few hundred ppl buy them the triple the price because they can't keep stock??
Ironmike86 is offline  
post #291 of 20379 Old 09-18-2007, 11:19 AM
Advanced Member
 
rossandwendy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Anyone hear from Chad @ Epik the last 24 hours? I've called and left phone messages twice and emailed three times and no response...
rossandwendy is offline  
post #292 of 20379 Old 09-18-2007, 11:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
SoundsGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,661
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossandwendy View Post

Anyone hear from Chad @ Epik the last 24 hours? I've called and left phone messages twice and emailed three times and no response...

I think Chad's just super busy. He takes a while to reply, but he does reply.
SoundsGood is offline  
post #293 of 20379 Old 09-18-2007, 11:55 AM
 
craigsub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 11,328
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Ross ... I got an email from Chad over the weekend, apologizing for being so busy, and promising to get back to me about buying a Valor, Castle and Conquest.

He is likely jammed with getting orders organized and filled ... and has not even looked here for a while.

I have not heard from him, either. Let's face it, you and I are not Sherv....
craigsub is offline  
post #294 of 20379 Old 09-18-2007, 12:31 PM
Advanced Member
 
rossandwendy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Ross ... I got an email from Chad over the weekend, apologizing for being so busy, and promising to get back to me about buying a Valor, Castle and Conquest.

He is likely jammed with getting orders organized and filled ... and has not even looked here for a while.

I have not heard from him, either. Let's face it, you and I are not Sherv....



Yeah, I know he's slammed. A few minutes ago he did reach me by phone. The guy is really cool and an absolute pleasure to talk audio with, and I love his passion for what he's doing. Unfortunately, I have had to make the decision to cancel my Conquest order because I just feel in my gut I need to fully give SVS a chance to make things right with replacing my dual PB13's that have had the amp problem before moving on too quickly to another sub, and believe me Ron & Ed are providing a spectacular customer service effort. I am quite sure the Conquest is going to be one helluva stunning performer and I envy anyone who will have that beast in their home, but in the meantime I will have my hands full testing out the replacement dual PB13's that arrive Monday. With the way Ron & Ed are backing me as a customer, they deserve in return me giving a working pair of Ultras a fair audition in my home.

Chad, I wish you the very best with your new launch!

Cheers,
Ross
rossandwendy is offline  
post #295 of 20379 Old 09-18-2007, 12:37 PM
Advanced Member
 
DrewB's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 767
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Craig, are you insinuating that Sherv's a groupie?
DrewB is offline  
post #296 of 20379 Old 09-18-2007, 02:09 PM
Member
 
Chad Kuypers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Woodstock, IL
Posts: 107
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Wow, this thread has been all over the place.

Quote:


Problem is....i didn't discuss the merits of the Tower with you and want your opinion on this. From our conversation it seemed you felt pretty confident the Castle could compete with the new PB13Ultra both SPL and SQ. Will the Tower maintain equal footing with the Castle, as far as sound quality? For a mere 100bucks i'll take the added output at the lowest frequencies, IF and ONLY IF it doesn't come at the cost of any sound quality.

If definitely adds more output at the lowest frequencies. It is only a few dB behind the Conquest @ 20 Hz, which is saying a lot. It is EASILY worth the extra $100 for that reason alone.

The reason we offer two cabinet sizes for each driver/amplifier combination is strictly for size constraints. Some people can't fit the bigger box in their living room, and a 26 inch depth is much more suitable.

Other customers have dedicated theater rooms or do not care about the overall size. For them, the larger cabinet is a no-brainer because is gets them a noticeable amount of extra 20 Hz and lower output for an extra $100.

This way people at least have a choice.

Quote:


Chad ... I am thinking a Valor, Castle and a Conquest ... For a start.

That sounds like a great idea. I was thinking the same thing. I'll get in touch with you directly.

Quote:


Chad, I wish you the very best with your new launch!

Thanks!!

I've got lots to comment on about this thread, but I have orders to ship out at the moment. I will drop by later when things settle down for the day. (like that will ever happen... )

Chad Kuypers
Owner, Epik Subwoofers
Chad Kuypers is offline  
post #297 of 20379 Old 09-18-2007, 02:10 PM
Member
 
johnnyseychelles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Talked with Chad and just completed my order. Went with the Tower. For 100 bucks extra, it was an easy decision for me, since I'm not too concerned with the +size compared to the Castle.

Only needed reassurance about the general Sound Quality, which Chad assures me there is no sacrifice or tradeoff for the bigger enclosure when comparing the Tower and Castle; just the benefit of added clean SPL <20.

WAF not an issue.....my wife is an absolute sweetheart. She thinks it will make for an excellent plant stand!
johnnyseychelles is offline  
post #298 of 20379 Old 09-18-2007, 02:57 PM
 
craigsub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 11,328
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewB View Post

Craig, are you insinuating that Sherv's a groupie?

I would never insinuate such a thing. Honest. Never. Well ... hardly ever.
craigsub is offline  
post #299 of 20379 Old 09-18-2007, 03:08 PM
Advanced Member
 
MusicFirst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 839
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Kuypers View Post

If definitely adds more output at the lowest frequencies. It is only a few dB behind the Conquest @ 20 Hz, which is saying a lot. It is EASILY worth the extra $100 for that reason alone.

The reason we offer two cabinet sizes for each driver/amplifier combination is strictly for size constraints. Some people can't fit the bigger box in their living room, and a 26 inch depth is much more suitable.

How much do the Castle and the Tower weigh?

P.S. In fact I don't see the weight listed on any of the Epik subs

Thanks,
MF
MusicFirst is offline  
post #300 of 20379 Old 09-18-2007, 04:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mojomike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
In general, the Epik site is devoid of detailed specs. Most of us sub geeks love detailed specs. The more, the better. C'mon Chad. Put up all the cool details.
mojomike is online now  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
Subwoofers , Epik Legend Subwoofer

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off