Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 121 - AVS Forum
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post #3601 of 20379 Old 08-22-2008, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanlim View Post

I was interested in purchasing the Valor, but am wondering if the Valor comes with any carpet spikes. Reason I ask is because I plan to put the Valor on its side due to clearance issues. If it does come with spikes, then it would stand to reason that the spikes help with isolation from the floor. If it does not come with spikes, then I can infer that Epik would deem it appropriate to just have the box lie directly on the floor.

Thanks for any help.

Get an auralux subdude to decouple the sub from the floor. They sell them at www.sweetwater.com

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post #3602 of 20379 Old 08-22-2008, 02:23 PM
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bryan,

No spikes come with the Epik subwoofers. You can lay it on its side just fine. In fact they were originally designed this way.
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post #3603 of 20379 Old 08-22-2008, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stepyourgameup View Post

Get an auralux subdude to decouple the sub from the floor. They sell them at www.sweetwater.com

Correct me if I'm wrong, but subdude's aren't useful if you have a concrete floor, correct? I seem to recall in researching them that they were only useful for people with floors that weren't on slabs.
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post #3604 of 20379 Old 08-22-2008, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Diseasedyak View Post

Correct me if I'm wrong, but subdude's aren't useful if you have a concrete floor, correct? I seem to recall in researching them that they were only useful for people with floors that weren't on slabs.

If that is true I may have wasted some cash!! haha.
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post #3605 of 20379 Old 08-22-2008, 02:57 PM
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The Valor comes with no feet or spikes. I'm pretty sure none of the Epiks do for that matter.


edit: I guess I was kinda late with that..lol.

~kyle
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post #3606 of 20379 Old 08-22-2008, 04:09 PM
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Thanks for the responses all. I just ordered a Valor. Now to wait 3 weeks...
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post #3607 of 20379 Old 08-22-2008, 06:46 PM
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cable question..I have a 12 x 10 room for the valor initially and am trying to decide between a 6ft and 12ft cable considering placement and future use. Good idea to have more cable than needed?
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post #3608 of 20379 Old 08-22-2008, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jterp7 View Post

cable question..I have a 12 x 10 room for the valor initially and am trying to decide between a 6ft and 12ft cable considering placement and future use. Good idea to have more cable than needed?

I always use a 24 ft cable, that way I always will have enough.

Bill
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post #3609 of 20379 Old 08-22-2008, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stepyourgameup View Post

I very seriously doubt it. All audessy does is turn the sub down so that it blends in with the mains better. It doesn't correct frequency dips and spikes like REW does.

I just got an email from Karen at Epik and she said that my tower will ship early next week. I ordered it on July 31.


The recommendation you were given is completely wrong. You can not disconnect the sub, run Audyssey, and then reconnect it. The Onkyo needs to know in advance if it has a subwoofer. If you tell it later that you added one, then it will reset and you have to run MultEQ again.

Frankly, there is very little use for external subwoofer correction devices if you already have MultEQ. The subwoofer MultEQ filter gives you more than 4000 points of correction and that will flatten nearly all subwoofer responses. I don't know where you got the information that "it doesn't do much for sub EQing".

There are are some rare cases where there is a huge bass peak in the room that could benefit from additional flattening. But you have to contend with the additional delay introduced by an external device (with DSP) that is added to the chain. If you really want to do that, then make sure that MultEQ measures through it so that it tries to compensate for that additional signal delay.

Regarding the measurement positions, I would suggest starting in the center with the first measurement (this is critical because delays and levels are calculated from that first position) then move 1 m to the left and right of that. Then take three more in parallel with the three first and about 1 m in front of the first three. The final two should be taken about 50 cm from the first measurement and slightly forward as if to form a triangle with the first position.

Please let me know how it works out.

Best,
Chris
CTO Audyssey Labs
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post #3610 of 20379 Old 08-22-2008, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stepyourgameup View Post

I very seriously doubt it. All audessy does is turn the sub down so that it blends in with the mains better. It doesn't correct frequency dips and spikes like REW does.

I just got an email from Karen at Epik and she said that my tower will ship early next week. I ordered it on July 31.

have you tried the audessy.
according to chris at audessy it is better at low freq, than high.
more filters.
it seems to set my twin towers within a few db
just need to be patient
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post #3611 of 20379 Old 08-22-2008, 08:27 PM
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sorry, should have read before posting
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post #3612 of 20379 Old 08-23-2008, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

I always use a 24 ft cable, that way I always will have enough.

Bill

i guess i'll stick with the 12' for now..I don't think I'll have a 24' or larger HT room for a while lol.
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post #3613 of 20379 Old 08-23-2008, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmike86 View Post

Means nothing. Mine said that the first day ordered

Damn.


Well it's been 12 days since I've ordered, so I hope it'll come within the next 18. Of course, that's not saying much, since some people waited 2 months for their sub.

It'd be a very very nice surprise to come before the 1st of September but I'm not holding my breath.
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post #3614 of 20379 Old 08-23-2008, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archbushman View Post

The recommendation you were given is completely wrong. You can not disconnect the sub, run Audyssey, and then reconnect it. The Onkyo needs to know in advance if it has a subwoofer. If you tell it later that you added one, then it will reset and you have to run MultEQ again.

Frankly, there is very little use for external subwoofer correction devices if you already have MultEQ. The subwoofer MultEQ filter gives you more than 4000 points of correction and that will flatten nearly all subwoofer responses. I don't know where you got the information that "it doesn't do much for sub EQing".

There are are some rare cases where there is a huge bass peak in the room that could benefit from additional flattening. But you have to contend with the additional delay introduced by an external device (with DSP) that is added to the chain. If you really want to do that, then make sure that MultEQ measures through it so that it tries to compensate for that additional signal delay.

Regarding the measurement positions, I would suggest starting in the center with the first measurement (this is critical because delays and levels are calculated from that first position) then move 1 m to the left and right of that. Then take three more in parallel with the three first and about 1 m in front of the first three. The final two should be taken about 50 cm from the first measurement and slightly forward as if to form a triangle with the first position.

Please let me know how it works out.

Best,
Chris
CTO Audyssey Labs

How does Audyssey handle multiple subs?
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post #3615 of 20379 Old 08-23-2008, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nzk View Post

Damn.


Well it's been 12 days since I've ordered, so I hope it'll come within the next 18. Of course, that's not saying much, since some people waited 2 months for their sub.

It'd be a very very nice surprise to come before the 1st of September but I'm not holding my breath.

It's been 8 days for me. let see who gets there's first
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post #3616 of 20379 Old 08-23-2008, 03:39 PM
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Wow, that is good news. I ordered two of these to replace the Klipsch Kw-120THX's. I was wondering if these were going to be enough. Sounds like they may be just what the doctor ordered.
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post #3617 of 20379 Old 08-23-2008, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdeye11 View Post

If that is true I may have wasted some cash!! haha.

From the Subdude thread, I found what made me think of this. I must have read it a long time ago, but I knew I wasn't remembering wrong (or at least I hoped I wasn't!):

Quote:


I would not think they would be as useful on concrete since their primary function is to physically isolate the sub from a live, resonant wood (or other) surface. Since concrete won't vibrate sympathetically, just a stable support (feet, spikes) should be fine.

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Someone else chimes in as well and says this is correct. So, if you are on a slab but have wood flooring, then get one. If you are directly on concrete floors, like me, then it won't help much if at all.
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post #3618 of 20379 Old 08-23-2008, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archbushman View Post

The recommendation you were given is completely wrong. You can not disconnect the sub, run Audyssey, and then reconnect it. The Onkyo needs to know in advance if it has a subwoofer. If you tell it later that you added one, then it will reset and you have to run MultEQ again.

Frankly, there is very little use for external subwoofer correction devices if you already have MultEQ. The subwoofer MultEQ filter gives you more than 4000 points of correction and that will flatten nearly all subwoofer responses. I don't know where you got the information that "it doesn't do much for sub EQing".

There are are some rare cases where there is a huge bass peak in the room that could benefit from additional flattening. But you have to contend with the additional delay introduced by an external device (with DSP) that is added to the chain. If you really want to do that, then make sure that MultEQ measures through it so that it tries to compensate for that additional signal delay.

Regarding the measurement positions, I would suggest starting in the center with the first measurement (this is critical because delays and levels are calculated from that first position) then move 1 m to the left and right of that. Then take three more in parallel with the three first and about 1 m in front of the first three. The final two should be taken about 50 cm from the first measurement and slightly forward as if to form a triangle with the first position.

Please let me know how it works out.

Best,
Chris
CTO Audyssey Labs

Wow, I guess everyone that uses REW and a feedback destroyer are just wasting their time and money. Also, you don't want a completely flat response, you want a house curve or a hard knee curve.

It is extremely hard to believe someone who has a vested interest in Audessey. I, on the other hand, have nothing to gain by what I tell you.

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post #3619 of 20379 Old 08-23-2008, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stepyourgameup View Post

Wow, I guess everyone that uses REW and a feedback destroyer are just wasting their time and money. Also, you don't want a completely flat response, you want a house curve or a hard knee curve.

It is extremely hard to believe someone who has a vested interest in Audessey. I, on the other hand, have nothing to gain by what I tell you.

instead of eq. it would be better to just treat your room.
but with limited treatments and audessy, you could get decent response.
i have seen numerous graphs, done by various people, and was also surprized.
it must work to some extent because of the top receiver manufactures are implimenting this feature.
anyway the audessy thread is a great read lots of info
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post #3620 of 20379 Old 08-23-2008, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stepyourgameup View Post

Wow, I guess everyone that uses REW and a feedback destroyer are just wasting their time and money. Also, you don't want a completely flat response, you want a house curve or a hard knee curve.

It is extremely hard to believe someone who has a vested interest in Audessey. I, on the other hand, have nothing to gain by what I tell you.

Just because Chris has a vested interest in Audyssey, doesn't mean he or their technologies are bad. My goodness you need to look at what MultEQ can do technology wise VS what a Behringer can do, before dismissing it, take a step back, read what Tomlinson Holman has said about it and what has been said in the Audyssey thread here.
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post #3621 of 20379 Old 08-23-2008, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampfox View Post

How does Audyssey handle multiple subs?

i asked this question also on the audessy thrd. was sent a pm from chris at audessy.
wish i could remember all that he said.
but to the extent that leave phase of both subs the same, this helps more if they are equal distance from listening posisition. but it will treat both subs as one, and adjust accordingly for your room.
it has worked in both my rooms with the twin towers, and also the twin a2-300s
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post #3622 of 20379 Old 08-23-2008, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRR View Post

Just because Chris has a vested interest in Audyssey, doesn't mean he or their technologies are bad. My goodness you need to look at what MultEQ can do technology wise VS what a Behringer can do, before dismissing it, take a step back, read what Tomlinson Holman has said about it and what has been said in the Audyssey thread here.

I'm not saying that audessey is terrible, but I don't believe that it will do what I need it to. Once my sub arrives I will do an audessy run and then test the results with REW and see how it does.

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post #3623 of 20379 Old 08-24-2008, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warlord260 View Post

instead of eq. it would be better to just treat your room.
but with limited treatments and audessy, you could get decent response.
i have seen numerous graphs, done by various people, and was also surprized.
it must work to some extent because of the top receiver manufactures are implimenting this feature.
anyway the audessy thread is a great read lots of info


It's extremely difficult to flatten the response (below 100Hz) with just room treatments, unless the response is already pretty good to begin with. Bass traps do get rid of a lot of the boom and overhang, cleaning up and tightening up the bass a lot, though.

Auto-eq is very interesting to me, and it would be great if it worked, and even let you set house curves. I'd love to see something like the SMS-1 implemented into a receiver (maybe there is already). But for me, I like having the control REW and a BFD afford, so I know exactly the results I'm getting. I have a Sony 5300ES receiver, and one of these days if I have some spare time, I might experiment with how its own auto-eq does in eqing the response.
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post #3624 of 20379 Old 08-25-2008, 11:03 PM
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cyberbri is correct. Frequencies below 100hz have wavelengths that are many meters long, and if I recall correctly, you need effective absorptive material with a thickness of at least a quarter wavelength to see any results. 100hz absorption would require over two and half feet of absorptive material. Luckily, subwoofer equalization is easy, effective, and inexpensive, and is the most practical method of flattening bass response in a room once you have found the best location for the sub.
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post #3625 of 20379 Old 08-26-2008, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrostyMMB View Post

cyberbri is correct. Frequencies below 100hz have wavelengths that are many meters long, and if I recall correctly, you need effective absorptive material with a thickness of at least a quarter wavelength to see any results. 100hz absorption would require over two and half feet of absorptive material. Luckily, subwoofer equalization is easy, effective, and inexpensive, and is the most practical method of flattening bass response in a room once you have found the best location for the sub.

You do not need 2 1/2 feet of bass trapping for 100Hz, most 4 inch traps will absorb to 100Hz if straddling a corner. GIK's tri traps are not that thick and I think they go to 80Hz or lower?
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post #3626 of 20379 Old 08-26-2008, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srr View Post

you do not need 2 1/2 feet of bass trapping for 100hz, most 4 inch traps will absorb to 100hz if straddling a corner. Gik's tri traps are not that thick and i think they go to 80hz or lower?

+1
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post #3627 of 20379 Old 08-26-2008, 08:53 PM
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Absorption is good to 60~70Hz if thick enough. Below that is tough. But even down to 60Hz, you need a LOT of absorption to actually fix/flatten frequency response. That's the point. It will absorb below 100Hz, but it's hard to fix response with absorption alone.
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post #3628 of 20379 Old 08-26-2008, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stepyourgameup View Post

Wow, I guess everyone that uses REW and a feedback destroyer are just wasting their time and money. Also, you don't want a completely flat response, you want a house curve or a hard knee curve.

It is extremely hard to believe someone who has a vested interest in Audessey. I, on the other hand, have nothing to gain by what I tell you.


Audyssey did an excellent sub eq'ing my JL F112. I also have a Behringer Feedback Destroyer. It's sitting in the closet.

Blue line is after Audyssey. And no, not everyone wants a house curve. Maybe you do, but that doesn't make it right.

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post #3629 of 20379 Old 08-27-2008, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcjago View Post

Audyssey did an excellent sub eq'ing my JL F112. I also have a Behringer Feedback Destroyer. It's sitting in the closet.

I think most of the problems that have been associated with Audyssey have to do with the its handling off the response below 20hz.


Does anyone have a picture of an Epik driver removed from the cabinet?
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post #3630 of 20379 Old 08-27-2008, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcjago View Post

Audyssey did an excellent sub eq'ing my JL F112. I also have a Behringer Feedback Destroyer. It's sitting in the closet.

Blue line is after Audyssey. And no, not everyone wants a house curve. Maybe you do, but that doesn't make it right.


Wanting a house curve or a completely flat response is a personal preference but for those that want a house curve a BFD is a must.

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