Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 180 - AVS Forum
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post #5371 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 09:01 AM
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Great pics John H! may i ask what happened to the HSU's?

any initial impressions on the Dragons?

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post #5372 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 09:12 AM
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Very Nice John. I cant wait. every car that passes i look out the window. They really didnt leave much cabinet room with the 18 inch did they haha
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post #5373 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy joe divola View Post

Are the DD-18s happy playing WOTW pod emerging at reference?

I haven't tried it on just the pair of DD-18's yet. I would say yes as my pair of HGS-18's did.

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Originally Posted by Gov View Post

-5db in sealed room WOTW pod emerging scene, two Dragons, has to be insanely loud!!

Along with my ButtKicker setup it's amazing.

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Originally Posted by ribbit View Post

Great pics John H! may i ask what happened to the HSU's?

any initial impressions on the Dragons?

I am currently using one ULS-15 in a bedroom. I haven't gotten around to using them in a quad configuration again since I sent one sub back to have a failed driver replaced. I still need to unpack the repaired subwoofer.

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Very Nice John. I cant wait. every car that passes i look out the window. They really didnt leave much cabinet room with the 18 inch did they haha

It looks like a HSU ULS-15's big brother.

John
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post #5374 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notoriousmatty View Post

Very Nice John. I cant wait. every car that passes i look out the window. They really didnt leave much cabinet room with the 18 inch did they haha

Pretty soon you'll have the sound of delivery truck memorised "you'll think" like me , so you wont have to look out your window anymore . Instead you'll keep opening and closing the front door to look lol
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post #5375 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 12:01 PM
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John H,

Do you think you could be nice enough and leave some subwoofers for the rest of us.
I want to buy some new subs soon but I'm afraid you have all of the inventory. Have fun with the new boys.

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post #5376 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 12:14 PM
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My Dragon finally came. I ran Audyssey Muleq XT on my denon 2809 and just started listening to a few things. I plan on running REW later tonight to see how audyssey did and to get it as flat as possible....
Maybe my expectations of this subwoofer were a bit too high. Its very accurate to the point where it disappears in my setup. I couldnt really even tell it was there until my picture fell off of my wall. Now my room is very small. Only about 12x12 so maybe it doesnt have enough room to stretch its legs. Or that im used to a car subwoofer where literally my nose hairs vibrate and you feel as if your eyes are going to explode. This is much more subtle. I can see the cone vibrating like crazy but I just dont feel it in my chest like I expected to. Either that or I was lucky with my H100. Maybe this is a tribute to how great the bic is for its price.

I have it on a GRAMMA pad. Maybe im missing something in its setup. Audyssey set it to -1.5 and i have the volume knob on the sub up about 40% and the cord connected to the LFE connection. Theres also a crossover connection. and I turned audyssey off to see if thats the problem too but its not. Also John, does your power cord only have 2 prongs to the subwoofer and 3 prongs to plug it into the wall with. It looks like it was supposed to be 3 but maybe one fell off?

Or perhaps this is just what bass is supposed to sound like. Lost in the mix and barely noticeable. I just expected for my eyes to explode and maybe this is just not possible with home theater subs. I ran Dark Knight and it played everything cleanly just not with the authority I was hoping it would. Im going to do far more listening before I pass any final judgements. On a positive note the 18 inch driver looks amazing and the Fed Ex guy asked if I could come help him carry it. When I told him it was a home theater subwoofer he said an expletive that begins with F.
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post #5377 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notoriousmatty View Post

My Dragon finally came. I ran Audyssey Muleq XT on my denon 2809 and just started listening to a few things. I plan on running REW later tonight to see how audyssey did and to get it as flat as possible....
Maybe my expectations of this subwoofer were a bit too high. Its very accurate to the point where it disappears in my setup. I couldnt really even tell it was there until my picture fell off of my wall. Now my room is very small. Only about 12x12 so maybe it doesnt have enough room to stretch its legs. Or that im used to a car subwoofer where literally my nose hairs vibrate and you feel as if your eyes are going to explode. This is much more subtle. I can see the cone vibrating like crazy but I just dont feel it in my chest like I expected to. Either that or I was lucky with my H100. Maybe this is a tribute to how great the bic is for its price.

I have it on a GRAMMA pad. Maybe im missing something in its setup. Audyssey set it to -1.5 and i have the volume knob on the sub up about 40% and the cord connected to the LFE connection. Theres also a crossover connection. and I turned audyssey off to see if thats the problem too but its not. Also John, does your power cord only have 2 prongs to the subwoofer and 3 prongs to plug it into the wall with. It looks like it was supposed to be 3 but maybe one fell off?

Or perhaps this is just what bass is supposed to sound like. Lost in the mix and barely noticeable. I just expected for my eyes to explode and maybe this is just not possible with home theater subs. I ran Dark Knight and it played everything cleanly just not with the authority I was hoping it would. Im going to do far more listening before I pass any final judgements. On a positive note the 18 inch driver looks amazing and the Fed Ex guy asked if I could come help him carry it. When I told him it was a home theater subwoofer he said an expletive that begins with F.

It should disappear and blend into your system. Just put on the the pod emerging scene on WOTW DTS track and it should feel like your room is crumbling down. Also, that scene should give you a very uneasy feeling inside at high SPL's. If it doesn't, something is off then.

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post #5378 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notoriousmatty View Post

Also John, does your power cord only have 2 prongs to the subwoofer and 3 prongs to plug it into the wall with. It looks like it was supposed to be 3 but maybe one fell off?

Yes the Dragon amplifier only has 2 pins. No ground pin. The amplifiers on my Conquests are the same. No ground loop issues.

It sounds like you have it connected properly. The LFE input bypasses the subwoofers internal crossover.

What level are you listening at?

John
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post #5379 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 01:02 PM
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I have it on a GRAMMA pad. Maybe im missing something in its setup. Audyssey set it to -1.5 and i have the volume knob on the sub up about 40...........
I would try it without the GRAMMA pad.........
In my experience it makes a more of a difference for a ported sub than a sealed....
Or better yet bring the sub over to my house let's hear it in my bigger room like you said maybe it needs to stretch it's legs...
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post #5380 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 01:02 PM
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notoriousmatty - Where did you get the impression that the Dragon was going to be a huge SPL kind of sub. Being the Dragon is sealed leads me to think that it is articulate and can pound during a movie only to a certain extent. I'm sure it is a clean bass and will sound awesome for music and movies. If you are looking for high SPL and that gut wrenching bass, IMHO what you should have bought was the Dynasty. That would have been more of the feel it in the chest, pop your eyes out sub you are wanting. You might need another Dragon in your little room to give you the effect you are after.
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post #5381 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 01:07 PM
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Now I'm second guessing my dragon order and thinking maybe I should get a Dynasty.
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post #5382 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcmike View Post

Now I'm second guessing my dragon order and thinking maybe I should get a Dynasty.

maybe is his room?
try to turn off audessy, and see if there is a diff. also what receiver do you have?
on the onkyo's they have a pure mode, maybe try that.
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post #5383 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 02:01 PM
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Is it in a corner ? If not put it in one. Take it off the pad and turn of Eq and set at 0 db. Put on the the pod emerging scene on WOTW DTS track. My 10"B & W in a much larger room make me feel like the floor is opening up. That is the sub that I want but Chad keeps think the Sentinel is what I'm looking for in a sub. But I like deep bass. It does not need to be ear blowing loud. But I like to feel the earth move and tight for music.Just keep us updated please.....



Marc


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post #5384 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 02:21 PM
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all good suggestions. im gonna move it to more of a corner as its currently about 3 feet from the side and about a foot from the back of it. When I crawled for bass it gave me the least amount of 'boomy' bass with my bic. Ill have to do that again. I thought about getting the dynasty but I ended up sealing my little bic because i liked the sound better. i also thought the smallness of my room that the sealed would be able to produce the spls needed. Im still messing around with it. I went out and bought cloverfield on bluray as well. when i put my head in front of the sub I feel my tonsils vibrate. more to come.
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post #5385 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 02:27 PM
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If you're not getting slam it's likely due to cancellation issues related to your small square room. Experiment with placement.

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #5386 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 02:50 PM
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It may be his room, but mine is almost similar in dimensions (complete with the squareness factor). Tough decision. Dragons should ship on Thursday. I only want to do this once, so maybe I should just get the Dynasty and know that they'll be plenty of headroom. I just wonder what I'll be giving up by going to ported versus sealed.

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maybe is his room?
try to turn off audessy, and see if there is a diff. also what receiver do you have?
on the onkyo's they have a pure mode, maybe try that.

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post #5387 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 03:14 PM
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Square rooms will do this with any sub. For a small room the Dragon will provide more than enough output. By all means, give Chad a call for his opinion or suggestions.

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #5388 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 03:55 PM
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I moved my room around to put the sub in a corner and removed the gramma pad. I dont see anything but upside to using a decoupling method like the gramma but Ill try it out anyway. Havent listened to anything yet because now im exhausted. If I cant get the spls then ill order another dragon. But this thing in a closed corner looks like it will do some damage
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post #5389 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notoriousmatty View Post

I moved my room around to put the sub in a corner and removed the gramma pad. I dont see anything but upside to using a decoupling method like the gramma but Ill try it out anyway. Havent listened to anything yet because now im exhausted. If I cant get the spls then ill order another dragon. But this thing in a closed corner looks like it will do some damage

Try the WOTW, Hulk, Transformers or Iron Man scene and break out the SPL meter and see what you are getting from your LP. You should easily be able to hit triple digit peaks

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post #5390 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcmike View Post

Now I'm second guessing my dragon order and thinking maybe I should get a Dynasty.

I wouldn't be too worried right now. His expectations might be a bit different than yours . After all, he admits he's used to bass like this:

Quote:
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...Or that im used to a car subwoofer where literally my nose hairs vibrate and you feel as if your eyes are going to explode.

A car cabin is many times smaller than even a small bedroom or media room. Achieving SPL's in a 12'x12' room that even "modest" car audio fans experience in their cars will require some serious subs!

I have an Epik Castle in my 11'x10' sealed room and while it hits hard and goes deep, it's nothing like my coworker's car with dual 15's. If I were expecting the Castle to create the same nauseating bass experience I've had in my friend's car, I'd be disappointed. However, the Castle does provide massive impact for both music and HT (assuming "massive" doesn't mean 130+dB and an unbalanced sounding system) and I've been totally happy with it so far.
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post #5391 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 04:36 PM
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Sounds much better now with the same music sources tested before. I cant rerun audyssey because theres too much noise at home now so ill have to leave it off for the night. My two favorite tracks are 50 Cent- Im supposed to die tonight and Kanye West-Drunk and Hot girls. Amazing bass from these two tracks. My reference track for chest thumping bass is 'DJ Antoine- This Time (Klaas Remix)' I suggest everyone hear it at least once with a subwoofer. Anybody else have any input on if I should use a gramma pad with a sealed sub?
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post #5392 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notoriousmatty View Post

Sounds much better now with the same music sources tested before. I cant rerun audyssey because theres too much noise at home now so ill have to leave it off for the night. My two favorite tracks are 50 Cent- Im supposed to die tonight and Kanye West-Drunk and Hot girls. Amazing bass from these two tracks. My reference track for chest thumping bass is 'DJ Antoine- This Time (Klaas Remix)' I suggest everyone hear it at least once with a subwoofer. Anybody else have any input on if I should use a gramma pad with a sealed sub?

Not sure with a sealed sub, but using a Gramma made my downfiring sub sound better. At least to me
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post #5393 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 04:49 PM
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Gramma pad won't hurt anything, so leave it if you want. Also, in my opinion, the Gramma pad is really only effective it you have hardwood, laminate or tiled floors. If you have carpet, it really does nothing for you except from a psycological stand point
I once asked Chad about Gramma pads and he kinda shrugged his shoulders a bit and said they are for the most part unnecessary.

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post #5394 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lalakersfan34 View Post

I wouldn't be too worried right now. His expectations might be a bit different than yours . After all, he admits he's used to bass like this:



A car cabin is many times smaller than even a small bedroom or media room. Achieving SPL's in a 12'x12' room that even "modest" car audio fans experience in their cars will require some serious subs!

I have an Epik Castle in my 11'x10' sealed room and while it hits hard and goes deep, it's nothing like my coworker's car with dual 15's. If I were expecting the Castle to create the same nauseating bass experience I've had in my friend's car, I'd be disappointed. However, the Castle does provide massive impact for both music and HT (assuming "massive" doesn't mean 130+dB and an unbalanced sounding system) and I've been totally happy with it so far.

That will be true at some extent but when a crappy $400 PA sub with a $250 Behringer 2500 amp in a open basketball court can give you slam and impact in chest you expect then the theory no longer applies. Probably is that what in PA is a subwoofer it doesnt go to 30hz but over that it hits you with over 120dbs in chest.

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post #5395 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 05:34 PM
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What home subs give is the rumbbling sensation as if the house is going to fall and incredible depht in music presentation, in esence the sound is much more refined. But an aquired taste..! Is like tasting a real nice cabernet or whiskey(home subs) as oposed to a bunch of beer and tequila(pa & car subs) both will get you boozed but diffrerently.

Seize the Day..!
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post #5396 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder-rush View Post

What home subs give is the rumbbling sensation as if the house is going to fall and incredible depht in music presentation, in esence the sound is much more refined. But an aquired taste..! Is like tasting a real nice cabernet or whiskey(home subs) as oposed to a bunch of beer and tequila(pa & car subs) both will get you boozed but diffrerently.

That would be "whisky" my friend

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post #5397 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 06:15 PM
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Im a sucker for how theater bass sounds. It doesnt get that low but the mid-bass is incredible. If I could get a theater with great mid bass and nothing else I would be happy. With that being said Dark Knight and Iron Man sound incredible. You can feel every detail in the bass. The batmobile and batpod being the standout. My brother ran out of his room and thought I fell down the stairs. The Dragon is quickly becoming awe inspiring.
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post #5398 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder-rush View Post

What home subs give is the rumbbling sensation as if the house is going to fall and incredible depht in music presentation, in esence the sound is much more refined. But an aquired taste..! Is like tasting a real nice cabernet or whiskey(home subs) as oposed to a bunch of beer and tequila(pa & car subs) both will get you boozed but diffrerently.

Still massive midbass subs will have the same problems in a 12x12 room. The standing waves are 10' to 100' long, bounce back and cancel. A gym or large arena is perfect for high powered midbass. In a home theatre you want a bit of everything, extention, midbass slam and articulation up to the crossover.

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post #5399 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

Gramma pad won't hurt anything, so leave it if you want. Also, in my opinion, the Gramma pad is really only effective it you have hardwood, laminate or tiled floors. If you have carpet, it really does nothing for you except from a psycological stand point
I once asked Chad about Gramma pads and he kinda shrugged his shoulders a bit and said they are for the most part unnecessary.

I've always read that grammas don't help with concrete or tile floors. Better for wood. I had intrest in one until I seen graphs of one tile and off tile. From a user in the gramma must need thread. Hardly any change at all.
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post #5400 of 20368 Old 03-17-2009, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notoriousmatty View Post

Im a sucker for how theater bass sounds. It doesnt get that low but the mid-bass is incredible. If I could get a theater with great mid bass and nothing else I would be happy. With that being said Dark Knight and Iron Man sound incredible. You can feel every detail in the bass. The batmobile and batpod being the standout. My brother ran out of his room and thought I fell down the stairs. The Dragon is quickly becoming awe inspiring.


How low is it going in your room?

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