Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 226 - AVS Forum
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post #6751 of 20378 Old 05-02-2009, 07:11 PM
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I got a SPL meter and got the dB's down to around 75. In order to do this I had to turn the volume dial to 9-o-clock and put the LFE on the AVR to -1.0. To me it doesn't sound like enough bass. When a bomb goes off, I want the house to shake. Not hear a little poof... know what I mean? Maybe I need another phoenix?
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post #6752 of 20378 Old 05-02-2009, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acpmadness View Post

I got a SPL meter and got the dB's down to around 75. In order to do this I had to turn the volume dial to 9-o-clock and put the LFE on the AVR to -1.0. To me it doesn't sound like enough bass. When a bomb goes off, I want the house to shake. Not hear a little poof... know what I mean? Maybe I need another phoenix?

Once you run your reciever setup for your speakers and sub, leave it alone and listen to various bass related materials. It all depends on the material that you are listening to and if it is in DTS, standard DVD, BluRay or whatever. Bass is not all the same. The best thing to do is play a track that you know has good bass and use that to final calibrate your sub bass. Try War of the Worlds, Lord of the Rings, or some deep bass music. Find the setting and leave it. The problem with getting a new sub is that we always fool around trying to improve on bass that really isn't there to start with.

Bill
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post #6753 of 20378 Old 05-02-2009, 08:34 PM
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I own a conquest and it blows my mind how it shakes the rafters. I wish there was a way to get that level of bass you get when you stand in the corner of your room throughout the entire room.
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post #6754 of 20378 Old 05-02-2009, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acpmadness View Post

I got a SPL meter and got the dB's down to around 75. In order to do this I had to turn the volume dial to 9-o-clock and put the LFE on the AVR to -1.0. To me it doesn't sound like enough bass. When a bomb goes off, I want the house to shake. Not hear a little poof... know what I mean? Maybe I need another phoenix?

I have my sub just about right as of now. I listen to a lot of music. So, I set my sub to music. As long as music sounds good on the sub, most of the time it will sound good on Blu-rays. Blu-ray disc are always, in my opinion, are recorded louder. It's like running "hot." Turn the gain knob on the sub to 12 o'clock. For the AVR, turn it up until it shakes the house, but not distorting. Meaning not boomy or all over the place. Which sub did you get anyway?

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Of course all rooms are different, but try the phase on "0." Most of the time phase set to "0" works. With the power it's up to you. I turn it off every night.
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post #6755 of 20378 Old 05-02-2009, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waffles View Post

I own a conquest and it blows my mind how it shakes the rafters. I wish there was a way to get that level of bass you get when you stand in the corner of your room throughout the entire room.

I have the same problem. The only solution is to get another Conquest. or Dragon in my case.
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post #6756 of 20378 Old 05-02-2009, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

Hey G, where is the volume knob on the sub? On mine, I have it at 12pm and 3/4 +db up on the receiver. I find that it works for me. The lower the sub volume, the tighter the bass? So if I lower the volume on the sub and increase the level on the reciever. The out come would be loud and deep tight bass. I also tried it the other way around, and it's not what I like. The bass was all over the place.

Up until this evening I had the sub gain around 10am, and level @ +2.5 on the receiver. This was with middle room placement. But as my experimenting continues, I tried another scenario last night. I moved the sub back into the corner, but this time I caddy cornered it. In my settings described above, the sub became 3-4 db hotter in that placement. Keep in mind my ports are still plugged, and man was it impressive! I listened to music only and it was tight, controlled, and mean sounding big bass! Like you described, there was no overhang whatsoever! I even compared this with my pricey PSB Synch One’s bass without the sub and it was REALLY close in tightness and pitch definition. The main difference was, with the sub on, the bottom end was much deeper and full. In all fairness though I kept my mains running full range when I made the comparison because unless I am listening to extremely low bass music or heavy bass movies, I run my mains full range all the time. The blend is seamless and I am impressed at how musical the Phoenix is! It’s been a challenge to dial in this big 18” driver but I am getting there. At this time I prefer sealed (for the best sound q) and caddy cornered (for the most output).

I didn't have time to run Audyssey yet (it hasn't been quiet enough) but this time I'll run it with the sub gain set at 11-12 and see what happens. If my estimations are correct, Audyssey should set the sub level at -1 if I am at 11am on the sub gain.

I also agree with you ... for music I can raise the level 2-3 db but I've found that with Audyssey, it already does that because when I measure, my trusty spl meter reads around 78-83 db. Mains and surrounds are set to 75.
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post #6757 of 20378 Old 05-02-2009, 10:04 PM
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^^^ You liking the Phoenix sealed as well for movies too?

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post #6758 of 20378 Old 05-02-2009, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by acpmadness View Post

I put the volume dial at 9-o-clock and reran audssey. My receiver put the LFE at +1.5dB. I watched Sin City and I couldn't barely hear any bass at all. I'm thinking about putting the LFE at 0 and turning the dial to 12-o-clock. That wouldn't be to hot will it?

That doesn't seem like it would be too hot, but you should be hearing some bass with the settings the way they are now. Go into your receiver and check the lfe settings ... most allow to dial back in incriments of -15 in case the lfe signal is too hot from the source. Verify if the setting is in fact set set flat to 0. If it's -15 or lower that could explain it. Just a thought.
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post #6759 of 20378 Old 05-02-2009, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

^^^ You liking the Phoenix sealed as well for movies too?

I haven't tried that yet, Gov but I will. My thinking is that if I want the best slam for movies, ported is going to be the way to go. It's louder down low and gets lower, period. But for everyday listening (mostly music and movies that don't get as low) sealed is the way to go IMO. It is incredibly tight and controlled. I never would have believed an 18" driver would work so well in my system for music. My Synchs have 3, 6.5" high end bass drivers in them and are no slouch with bass whatsoever, yet the Phnx just fits right in the party. I am really satisfied with my setup right now.
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post #6760 of 20378 Old 05-02-2009, 10:21 PM
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Thanks for all the tips. I'm finding I like it best with the sub gain at 12-o-clock and the LFE at -3dB. I need to go grab a copy of WOTW to hear what everyones talking about.
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post #6761 of 20378 Old 05-02-2009, 10:37 PM
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Hey Gov, try setting your main, center ans surround to small and see if it sounds better.
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post #6762 of 20378 Old 05-02-2009, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waffles View Post

I own a conquest and it blows my mind how it shakes the rafters. I wish there was a way to get that level of bass you get when you stand in the corner of your room throughout the entire room.

put your chair in the corner and your tv in the other corner

for even greater effect, put your sub in the same corner that your chair would be in

the corner bass can be fun once in a while but it's bloated non-accurate bass that would probably get tiresome eventually

All this noise about noise.
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post #6763 of 20378 Old 05-02-2009, 11:17 PM
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When I did the skadoosh scene at that level the entire sub was moving. Sub cabinet, floor, walls, and everything. It was crazy. I knew I had alittle bit more but decided not to push it.
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post #6764 of 20378 Old 05-03-2009, 05:09 AM
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I tried stacking my Wanquish subs they sound good either way.
I took ssome videos of the excursion of the drivers but I am having a hard time uploading them.....
LL
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post #6765 of 20378 Old 05-03-2009, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

I have the same problem. The only solution is to get another Conquest. or Dragon in my case.

Thats exactly what I'm going to do, now I need to figure out a way on how to break the news to my wife. " Honey, I need need ANOTHER $2000 dollar subwoofer and here is why"!!
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post #6766 of 20378 Old 05-03-2009, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by acpmadness View Post

In order to do this I had to turn the volume dial to 9-o-clock and put the LFE on the AVR to -1.0.

When you say volume dial at 9, are you referring to the subwoofer itself? If so this is not exactly a volume dial although it will increase the volume you hear from the sub, it is not quite the same animal as the volume knob on your receiver. It is a gain which controls the strength of the lfe signal to the sub. The higher you turn it up, the less "headroom" you will have on big demanding bass scenes, etc. Most of us seem to have good results between 10-12. If your lfe setting is correct on the receiver (at 0), and your sub gain is as described, then Audyssey should theoretically set it up correctly. From there, as someone kindly pointed out to me in this forum, you can then adjust the "sub level" in your receiver a couple db hotter or to your liking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acpmadness View Post

To me it doesn't sound like enough bass. When a bomb goes off, I want the house to shake. Not hear a little poof... know what I mean? Maybe I need another phoenix?

I would spend some more time dialing it in before you drop the cash. It's taken me over 2 weeks of location swapping to find the right spot in the room. Placement is ALMOST EVERYTHING. I too have lots of cubic feet in A very challenging open room. I have experienced the same issues as you in certain locations (lots of dead spots and uneven bass response). Try another location such as a corner ans see what happens.

Even better would an external EQ but that's on my radar and not reality in terms of the investment yet.
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post #6767 of 20378 Old 05-03-2009, 06:13 AM
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Anybody know who makes these custom made drivers for Epik.
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post #6768 of 20378 Old 05-03-2009, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

Hey Gov, try setting your main, center ans surround to small and see if it sounds better.

I have never ran my speakers "large" always "small"

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post #6769 of 20378 Old 05-03-2009, 07:59 AM
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I have never ran my speakers "large" always "small"

Gov, do you have floorstanders, bookshelf speakers (on stands), or satellite speakers?
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post #6770 of 20378 Old 05-03-2009, 09:58 AM
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Just a guess........ Epik? After all, Chad use to be involved with another company that made custom drivers for car audio applications.

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Anybody know who makes these custom made drivers for Epik.

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post #6771 of 20378 Old 05-03-2009, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GPowered View Post

Gov, do you have floorstanders, bookshelf speakers (on stands), or satellite speakers?



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post #6772 of 20378 Old 05-03-2009, 10:30 AM
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I've got those 340s in the front, and set "small". But, I do find the bass to be slightly better when the fronts are set to "large".

You'll rarely hear anyone say, "I wish I'd gotten less Sub."

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post #6773 of 20378 Old 05-03-2009, 11:26 AM
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Can someone tell me the time in Kung Fu panda of the scene everyone is always referencing? I can't seem to find it in this thread or the Master Thread...

EDIT: Scratch that I found it. It's about 1hr 20mins. I must say, that scene really isn't that impressive at all compared to other movies. It lasts for like 2secs, no big deal.
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post #6774 of 20378 Old 05-03-2009, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by pcmike View Post

Can someone tell me the time in Kung Fu panda of the scene everyone is always referencing? I can't seem to find it in this thread or the Master Thread...

It's at the end of the fight between Boo and Tai-long. When he says "I'm the big fat panda" while holding Tai-long's finger. Then he goes "Skadoosh"
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post #6775 of 20378 Old 05-03-2009, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by otk View Post

the corner bass can be fun once in a while but it's bloated non-accurate bass that would probably get tiresome eventually

Exactly. It's not about "more bass the better". You want accurate (flat) bass that is level-matched with the speakers or 2~4dB hot.

If you level-match the sub but have very uneven response, bass will sound boomy and you'll always hear the same few frequencies or notes. Some people also get headaches when watching movies when the bass is boomy and has uneven response. Sit in that corner for more than a few minutes and it could do exactly that. Flatten that bass out with an eq like the Anti-mode and the bass comes to life and you hear every detail.

You can turn up the bass all you want, but then every guy's voice can sound like the giant face in Matrix 3, and every footstep in every movie booms. Then you get to something that really is supposed to have a lot of bass and you're way out of wack - like The Haunting (DTS).

That's like running your TV in the factory "torch" Dynamic/Vivid setting - you think it looks great, but everything looks neon and everyone looks sunburned (everything looks like CSI Miami). When you calibrate the set to be as bright/dark as it should and the colors look like they should, it looks so much better and you know you are seeing the kind of picture you should be seeing. Calibrating the TV picture is like eqing the sub's response - it comes to life and you hear all the details. And Bass Traps in the corners help get rid of the extra ringing added by the room and really bring out the details in the bass and sound.
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post #6776 of 20378 Old 05-03-2009, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acpmadness View Post

I got a SPL meter and got the dB's down to around 75. In order to do this I had to turn the volume dial to 9-o-clock and put the LFE on the AVR to -1.0. To me it doesn't sound like enough bass. When a bomb goes off, I want the house to shake. Not hear a little poof... know what I mean? Maybe I need another phoenix?

Maybe that explosion is supposed to be like a poof... If you run your sub so hot that a "poof" is a huge explosiojn, what happens when you get to something that is supposed to be a huge explosion? It's like running TV on "torch" Dynamic/Vivid mode so everything is neon "CSI Miami", and then you really watch CSI Miami and your eyes start watering.


And/or, maybe you have bad frequency response, so one or two peaks in the response are throwing it off, so you only hear those frequencies and the bass in the rest of the frequency range is much quieter. Someone could say "XXX movie has great bass" and you watch the movie and the bass isn't very impressive - it's probably because the bass in the movie hits those frequencies that are in the dips/valleys in your room. Flatten out the response with eq and every bass hit is as loud or quiet as it's supposed to be (as long as you have it eq'd reasonably matched with the speakers).
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post #6777 of 20378 Old 05-03-2009, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TnTBigman View Post

I've got those 340s in the front, and set "small". But, I do find the bass to be slightly better when the fronts are set to "large".

When you set the speakers to Large, bass isn't re-routed to the sub (unless you have "double bass" set up in the receiver). So instead of your sub reproducing that bass, your receiver's limited power (in comparison) is trying to get those 6"~ drivers to reproduce that 20~80Hz bass that the sub should be doing.

I have 340SEs as well.

How far are the speakers from the wall (measured back of speaker to the wall). Moving them a little closer can improve their bass performance - the closer to the wall, the more the bass is boosted. It will be louder, although not necessarily better or more accurate. I had my 340SEs about 18" from the back wall, moved them to about 12-13", and got improved mid-bass response (in the 100s).
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post #6778 of 20378 Old 05-03-2009, 01:28 PM
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If your mains can handle the bass and you run "large", any EQ device that you have for your LFE bass will not be done for the main bass.

Bill
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post #6779 of 20378 Old 05-03-2009, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

If your mains can handle the bass and you run "large", any EQ device that you have for your LFE bass will not be done for the main bass.

Bill

That is a solid point Bill. My Integra 9.9 has a 15-band parametric EQ, with 5 bands dedicated to the lfe. Each channel can be EQ'd separately. I would like to try to use it someday but I haven't the slightest idea on how to use this feature correctly. In fact most people I’ve spoken to about it just tell me to stick with Audyssey, but I am sure this feature would allow the ability to dial the system as a whole as flat as possible. If anybody out there has used this or knows how to set it up correctly, please let me know.

I assume I would have to invest in a device to take measurements at every frequency and then dial it in according to that? What about room corrections, etc. I think I would need software that could do that as well since the Audyssey features (Multi-EQ and Dynamic EQ) are disabled when using the manual 15-band EQ.
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post #6780 of 20378 Old 05-03-2009, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcmike View Post

Can someone tell me the time in Kung Fu panda of the scene everyone is always referencing? I can't seem to find it in this thread or the Master Thread...

EDIT: Scratch that I found it. It's about 1hr 20mins. I must say, that scene really isn't that impressive at all compared to other movies. It lasts for like 2secs, no big deal.

I agree. Skidoosh is fun but isn't nearly as impressive as scenes from other movies. It's over hyped IMO.
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