Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Kuypers View Post

The larger boxes offer a massive upgrade in performance because of their efficiency.

Question: if larger boxes offer better performance, how can the new 12"er possibly compete with your larger ported boxes? (I know that it can be done (F113 anyone?), but how??)

Also, which ported model would you say the the new 12"er is equivalent to in output and sound quality?
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post #722 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 09:14 AM
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One more question for Chad:

Can a sealed sub go inside a cabinet (like in a "cube" of an entertainment center) or is that a no-no just like a ported sub?
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post #723 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 10:52 AM
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Thanks for your input Chad.I knew that bigger boxes result in more output,but you made it clearer just how much more.I'm not sure how much money will I be able to spare on a sub,so I was looking to find out which sub on your line is a clear overkill for my "room" size of ~ 15x11 or 17x11 or so.For example the Conquest would be totally unnecessary.I guess its worth to mention that its not really a room,more of a "pocket" in a bigger room without a wall behind the listening position.
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post #724 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 11:26 AM
 
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Does anyone think that a single Caliber can match (or exceed) the clean output capabilities of a single SVS PB13 Ultra ? If so, for $599, you have one HELL of a subwoofer for clean low distortion output.
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post #725 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 12:32 PM
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The caliber is $699 and i don't think anyone here has one yet so no one yet will knwo if it will match a pb13 ultra, but i don't think it will... Stepping up a model should bring you closer, and the tower should definitely be as loud as an ultra. But I dont think anyone has done a direct comparison yet.
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post #726 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 01:25 PM
 
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Chad, I have a question for you. Why is it that you decided to only implement variable phase on the most expensive offerings ? The reason I ask is because my SVS PB10 has variable phase and it's just $429.

I just think that variable phase is a great feature to fine tune the subwoofer properly.
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post #727 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 01:51 PM
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Variable phase is one of the most over rated and misunderstood functions available on subwoofers. Usually adjusting phase via a "phase" control causes more problems while trying to fix one.

The best and most useful control of phase with regards to matching up to your mains is the subwoofer "distance" or "delay" control on your AVR.

Before touching any phase knob you should make incremental changes of the distance control and retest or relisten.
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post #728 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 01:56 PM
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Most AVRs don't have multiple subwoofer outputs with independent distance settings though.

Jeremy Gillow
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post #729 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinrich S View Post

Chad, I have a question for you. Why is it that you decided to only implement variable phase on the most expensive offerings ? The reason I ask is because my SVS PB10 has variable phase and it's just $429.

I just think that variable phase is a great feature to fine tune the subwoofer properly.

HSU also does not have variable phase (just the 0/180 switch), even on their top model 3HO.
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post #730 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossandwendy View Post

HSU also does not have variable phase (just the 0/180 switch), even on their top model 3HO.

Any measurements, or at least impressions? How's the initial "sound" compared to PB13?
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post #731 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyseychelles View Post

Any measurements, or at least impressions? How's the initial "sound" compared to PB13?

I'm still in the experimental phase with the Conquest, and the wife is hounding me to get some work done today so have to put playing with the toys on hold for a bit . So far I can say that, as with most subs, room placement and interaction is huge concerning sound quality and it pays to try many variations in sub positioning, even ones that may seem odd at first, and remeasure/recalibrate each time using, at the least, an SPL meter and test tones.

Cheers,
Ross
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post #732 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 03:24 PM
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you guys are probably tired of me posting the levels.. but i'll post one more on this. I was at walmart today and WOTW was only 7.50 so i figured i'd go ahead and buy it.. In the WOTW thread they mention playing the dts track.. I'm not sure how to do that.. My onkyo says its a dolby digital signal. I don't see any dts lights or anything...
I maxed at 118db on both the lightning scene and the pods emerging.. This was from a good 2.5-3 meters away.. I may try it again because that seems a bit low.
I was able to do 120 and 121 db in finding nemo.. I tried the submarine scene and the darla scene.
Lastly, i bust out some old rap cd's to see what it could do.. I hit 123 db from the same position, and i also did a ground plane measurement from about 1 meter.. maybe a little further (i dont have a meter stick).. I hit 125db on multiple ocassions. I dont think this meter really goes to 126 because some of those bass hits sounded louder than others.. I wonder how accurate it is when its at its threshold like that.

keep in mine 120db is pretty darn loud (to me anyways). This is plenty enough headroom for me to handle.
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post #733 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossandwendy View Post

I'm still in the experimental phase with the Conquest, and the wife is hounding me to get some work done today so have to put playing with the toys on hold for a bit . So far I can say that, as with most subs, room placement and interaction is huge concerning sound quality and it pays to try many variations in sub positioning, even ones that may seem odd at first, and remeasure/recalibrate each time using, at the least, an SPL meter and test tones.

Cheers,
Ross

When you get time, we'd love to see some direct comparisons (i think you are the only one to own dual PB13s and a Conquest) as well as hear about your personal impressions as to sound quality. I would hope you could do a side by side. Both 1 vs 1 and also 2 vs 1.

I ordered the Tower a couple weeks ago, but it won't get to me til the 26th (I live in American Samoa). Until I get mine to set up and enjoy, all I can do is live through other new EPIK owners' experiences!
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post #734 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyseychelles View Post

Any measurements, or at least impressions? How's the initial "sound" compared to PB13?

Yes, the sound quality comparison is key.

Tell your wife the work will have to wait. Lots of folks are waiting for your feedback!!

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post #735 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 04:16 PM
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My Conquest should be delivered either tomorrow or the following day- it already arrived at the local freight hub this morning. I'm hoping it gets here tomorrow- but Wednesday is more likely. Can't wait!!

-Dennis
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post #736 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 04:41 PM
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if its at your local freight hub i would think they would get it to you the next day.. unless its a really slow hub.. Mine got to LAX in the morning on a monday, which is 250 miles away from me, and i had it the next morning..
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post #737 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 05:15 PM
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I hope you're right- to say I'm anxious would be the understatement of the year.

-Dennis
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post #738 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwolfe38 View Post

you guys are probably tired of me posting the levels.. but i'll post one more on this. I was at walmart today and WOTW was only 7.50 so i figured i'd go ahead and buy it.. In the WOTW thread they mention playing the dts track.. I'm not sure how to do that.. My onkyo says its a dolby digital signal. I don't see any dts lights or anything...
I maxed at 118db on both the lightning scene and the pods emerging.. This was from a good 2.5-3 meters away.. I may try it again because that seems a bit low.
I was able to do 120 and 121 db in finding nemo.. I tried the submarine scene and the darla scene.
Lastly, i bust out some old rap cd's to see what it could do.. I hit 123 db from the same position, and i also did a ground plane measurement from about 1 meter.. maybe a little further (i dont have a meter stick).. I hit 125db on multiple ocassions. I dont think this meter really goes to 126 because some of those bass hits sounded louder than others.. I wonder how accurate it is when its at its threshold like that.

keep in mine 120db is pretty darn loud (to me anyways). This is plenty enough headroom for me to handle.

You can select the DTS track from the DVD's main menu screen. You go to 'Audio' or 'Language' and choose DTS.
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post #739 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 05:56 PM
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My Conquest should be delivered either tomorrow or the following day- it already arrived at the local freight hub this morning. I'm hoping it gets here tomorrow- but Wednesday is more likely. Can't wait!!

Can't wait to hear your impressions Dennis.

Quote:
You can select the DTS track from the DVD's main menu screen. You go to 'Audio' or 'Language' and choose DTS.

Be aware that the DTS track is a lot louder than the Dolby Digital track at the same volume setting. Drop it back a bit and then slowly ramp it up until you are getting full output.

I will never forget the first time I played this DVD here at the shop. I had no idea about the LF content and I was testing a small ported 12 out at the time. The poor thing never knew what hit it... That DTS track is a monster!

Chad Kuypers
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post #740 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 06:09 PM
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Chad
When will see the dual 15" sub?
Ryan
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post #741 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 06:11 PM
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Same here- this is the DVD that made me realize my sub was lacking for my room, especially going from hearing it on my brother in law's SVS Ultra2 vs. my single PC-Ultra. There's no replacement for displacement.

BTW, the comparison was made easier since our home theaters are layed out in exactly the same orientation in the same size room (exactly the same, his home is the same floor plan as mine- only mirrored).

Needless to say, WOTW might be the first disk I put on...

-Dennis
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post #742 of 20385 Old 10-08-2007, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundsGood View Post

Yes, the sound quality comparison is key.

Tell your wife the work will have to wait. Lots of folks are waiting for your feedback!!


WOW, this is an excellent time to be shopping for a subwoofer with so many great products out now...I have posted elsewhere about the amazing sound quality of the PB13-Ultra's - a truly reference-quality sub IMO - and if I make any direct comparisons with them at all to the Conquest it is going to be at least several days because it would be absolutely wrong with products of this caliber to render a quick verdict without first having many hours of varied listening and lots of trial & error with room placement and phase. And besides that, I know I do not have the vast experience and expertise of someone like Craigsub to determine a relative ranking based on points. I want to be as fair as possible to both SVS and to Epik and give each product a thorough evaluation - both companies deserve at least that, and in the end, it is nothing more than my humble opinion about what kind of sound I happen to like in my particlur room.

Having said that, since this is the official Epik thread, here is an early glimpse of the quality of sound I heard tonight through the Conquest, after initially struggling with less-than-stellar SQ and a disappointing frequency response graph in my initial sub position that required some creative placement experimentation of the 250-pound beast in my 2500c.f. sealed room to find the sweet spot...

I ran the Flight Of The Phoenix crash scene and the Master & Commander first battle, and...I am almost at a loss for words...what I heard literally left my jaw agape...there was no sense of the sound coming from a separate box, but rather the bass was integrated into what was happening on the screen in a very powerful and visceral way, so that everything in the movie just semed so real, like it was literally ocurring before my very eyes. There was an extra dimension of that elusive palpability. The bass seemed to fill the entire room and the pressurization of the air (and shaking of the couch) was frequent and pronounced. Dynamic peaks had a sense of effortlessness. I was completely transported away during those two scenes that I have watched dozens of times before, and that's the best thing I can say for any piece of audio gear...

The Conquest setup experience has reminded me just how important it is to use, at the least, an SPL meter with correction factors and test tones to plot an in-room response graph for your sub and to remeasure after trying several different positions in order to get the best performance that subwoofer is capable of - the difference in sound between two placements can often be quite dramatic.

If anyone is curious about the total system that makes up the sound as a whole, the room has been treated with traps and panels and is relatively dead, source is an Oppo 970, amp is an Earthquake Cinenova Grande with H/K 340 functioning as pre/pro, and the five speakers are all Ascend 340SE's.

More to come as I get a chance to put in a wider variety of listening, especially with music...

Cheers,
Ross
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post #743 of 20385 Old 10-09-2007, 03:25 AM
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after initially struggling with less-than-stellar SQ and a disappointing frequency response graph in my initial sub position that required some creative placement experimentation of the 250-pound beast in my 2500c.f. sealed room to find the sweet spot...

Thanks for taking time to share with us....keep us posted as you continue to tweak and enjoy. I know that all rooms react differently, but i'm curious where you ended up placing it. Once you arrived at the sweet spot, did you have to apply much (or any) EQ to get where you are at this point?

I know I'll have to do my own work to get my Tower set up, but appreciate you sharing with us your trials/tribulations and fruits of your labor.
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post #744 of 20385 Old 10-09-2007, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyseychelles View Post

Thanks for taking time to share with us....keep us posted as you continue to tweak and enjoy. I know that all rooms react differently, but i'm curious where you ended up placing it. Once you arrived at the sweet spot, did you have to apply much (or any) EQ to get where you are at this point?

I know I'll have to do my own work to get my Tower set up, but appreciate you sharing with us your trials/tribulations and fruits of your labor.

I generally like to keep my sub in the front soundstage for best integration and to minimize localization and I first had the Conquest placed in the left front corner to the left of the main speaker with the driver/port facing the listening couch, but to get the best frequency response I had to experiment with upside down, laying on it's side, and finally settled on angled sideways in that same corner, driver/port facing the front wall and tv. So far no EQ and I'm at +/- 7.5db from 10hz to 100hz and will see if I can tweak positioning and phase a little more to get it within a +/- 5db window which works well enough for my ears.

The only downside to the current placement is I can no longer watch that big 18" driver do it's thing, but when the room is darkened for movies it really makes no difference.

BTW, the build quality is excellent and the textured black finish looks good. I like that there are no rubber feet on the bottom because it is easier to move the sub around the carpet without them.
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post #745 of 20385 Old 10-09-2007, 05:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Ross....good feedback so far. I imagine you ran some measurements from seating position to come up with the +- 7db from 10-100hz, so would you mind posting that? Thanks once again.


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post #746 of 20385 Old 10-09-2007, 05:44 AM
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That's great stuff Ross. Now I'd really like to see the heavyweight contenders...the big Epik and the big ED...go head to head.
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post #747 of 20385 Old 10-09-2007, 05:47 AM
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Quote:


...the big ED...

Is anyone else bothered by the fact that ED is something they keep talking to old men about on tv ?

Seeking a speaker recomendation? Compare for yourself or be swayed by others who hear differantly, or by marketing, or just save time and get the cheapest , nicest looking, or smallest.
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post #748 of 20385 Old 10-09-2007, 06:09 AM
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Is anyone else bothered by the fact that ED is something they keep talking to old men about on tv ?

Sounds like a personal problem. Wanna talk about it?
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post #749 of 20385 Old 10-09-2007, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossandwendy View Post

I had to experiment with upside down, laying on it's side, and finally settled on angled sideways in that same corner, driver/port facing the front wall and tv.

I'm not sure I get it... is the back of the sub facing the corner?

Got any pics?
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post #750 of 20385 Old 10-09-2007, 10:19 AM
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Sounds like a personal problem. Wanna talk about it?

I dunno, are you old and having that problem? If you are, seek medical help, I only have heard about it on tv, but apparently you aren't alone as they keep advertising the cr@p out of the medicine.

Seeking a speaker recomendation? Compare for yourself or be swayed by others who hear differantly, or by marketing, or just save time and get the cheapest , nicest looking, or smallest.
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