Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 275 - AVS Forum
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post #8221 of 20368 Old 07-15-2009, 10:51 AM
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I use the Soundblaster Live external, my radio shack SPL meter on a tripod and connect through my AVR's front ext. audio jack. I have never used an external media disc with REW as I didn't find a need. REW has a test tone generator and can run full sweeps in seconds. Additionally, with an SMS-1 or BFD it has a filter generator to wither tell you exactly what freq, what attenuation level and what Q to put the filters at, which takes a lot of guesswork out of it. You can sill finetune and tweak but it gets you very close pretty quickly.

As for the null, I am not a big fan of boosting freq's as it eats headroom to fight your room, placement of yourself and/or sub can be the most effective solution (or multiple subs, room treatment, etc, but you can move your sub for free).

The shack's guides are pretty thorough and if you follow them can take you through the process. I found it took me a couple hours the first time to figure out how to set everything up, create calibration files for my sound card and SPL meter, and figure out how/what I was doing. After that it is much quicker.

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post #8222 of 20368 Old 07-15-2009, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

I use the Soundblaster Live external, my radio shack SPL meter on a tripod and connect through my AVR's front ext. audio jack. I have never used an external media disc with REW as I didn't find a need. REW has a test tone generator and can run full sweeps in seconds. Additionally, with an SMS-1 or BFD it has a filter generator to wither tell you exactly what freq, what attenuation level and what Q to put the filters at, which takes a lot of guesswork out of it. You can sill finetune and tweak but it gets you very close pretty quickly.

As for the null, I am not a big fan of boosting freq's as it eats headroom to fight your room, placement of yourself and/or sub can be the most effective solution (or multiple subs, room treatment, etc, but you can move your sub for free).

The shack's guides are pretty thorough and if you follow them can take you through the process. I found it took me a couple hours the first time to figure out how to set everything up, create calibration files for my sound card and SPL meter, and figure out how/what I was doing. After that it is much quicker.


Q? After calibrating the SC do you run calibration for your RS meter or do you enter the RS meter calibration file instead..

-fab

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post #8223 of 20368 Old 07-15-2009, 11:29 AM
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i just saw all the talk about the eQ.2. i have one on my Epik Sentinel and it did the trick. i used REW to run sweeps, and dialed in the eQ.2 rather quickly. i guess my room is cooperating in the sub bass area as i only had to use one of the two bands. i had to do a narrow, medium size cut at around 53-54hz. using only the one band i was lucky enough to get a flat response (+/- 4db) from 17hz up to 80hz. i could have it flatter if i wanted but i have a natural house curve going on that i am very happy with.

my advice for anybody looking to possibly get a sub eq is to do some testing with REW to see if you need an EQ and how many bands you will need to get the desired response. if you only have 1 or 2 trouble spots then the eQ.2 is the easiest way to go.

this may sound strange but i'm old school. i'd much rather do the tuning on my own instead of letting Audessy or something similar do the tuning for me. this way i have control over everything, and i know exactly what is going on. i haven't researched Audessy that extensively but if it boosts anywhere then that is a no no. EQ IMO should only be used to tame peaks.

also, i do plan to get a second Sentinel eventually which will be placed next to my other front speaker and i feel that the eQ.2 will still be plenty of eq. it has two summed outputs so it will work easily with duals.

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post #8224 of 20368 Old 07-15-2009, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fab5valentine View Post

Q? After calibrating the SC do you run calibration for your RS meter or do you enter the RS meter calibration file instead..

-fab

I am probably going to describe this incorrectly, but "Q" is the "Quality Factor" , or "sharpness" in the width of the cut, it can be a narrow frequency band you are directing the subwoofer to affect or a large one. The easiest way I visualize this is if you are pulling an elastic string that is attached at two ends. If you just pull it down the whole string will be affected (bends down to your fingers from both ends). Now if you were to place two supports under the string at a certain area and then pull the string it should still be reasonably unchaged past the supports (tension not withstanding) but be pulled down to your fingers inside of hose supports. You can widen or narrow or narrow the distance between those supports and the string will be bent over a wider or narrower length. The distance between the supports would be the "Q", the area that is being directly affected.

As for the SPL calibration, I have a Rat Shack meter so I found the calibration file for my model, saved it on my laptop and then loaded it through REW.

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post #8225 of 20368 Old 07-15-2009, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

As for the SPL calibration, I have a Rat Shack meter so I found the calibration file for my model, saved it on my laptop and then loaded it through REW.


Ah.... Thanks!

-fab5

Bass, an obsession or addiction?
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post #8226 of 20368 Old 07-16-2009, 09:25 AM
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post #8227 of 20368 Old 07-16-2009, 10:21 AM
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Quote:

I was just wondering if you had sold it yet.
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post #8228 of 20368 Old 07-16-2009, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by DoubleATheater View Post

I was just wondering if you had sold it yet.

Nope, decided to give it some addtional thought over the last couple weeks. I am really going to miss it but it's best that I sell it to someone that is more into the HT scene right now. I am going more in the direction of 2-channel and music - much easier to play with with small children around. Still love my my surround setup though and I have a REL sub so I won't be subless. The REL is much more kid friendly lol.
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post #8229 of 20368 Old 07-17-2009, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GPowered View Post

Nope, decided to give it some addtional thought over the last couple weeks. I am really going to miss it but it's best that I sell it to someone that is more into the HT scene right now. I am going more in the direction of 2-channel and music - much easier to play with with small children around. Still love my my surround setup though and I have a REL sub so I won't be subless. The REL is much more kid friendly lol.

Now come on Kids don't stay young forever Soon you will be thinking HT again and will need to get another Phoenix if you sell it, lol!

Panny TC-P65VT60 (calibrated by Chad B), Denon AVR-4311, Comcast X1 DVR, Apple TV 3, Sony BDP-S5100,  Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers (mains), Horizon (CC) and HTM-200's (Surr), Dual PSA XV15 Subwoofers!!
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post #8230 of 20368 Old 07-17-2009, 08:09 AM
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For those that are curious what a Vanquish looks like compared to a Sentinel.....here ya go. I was doing a little A-B comparison for the hell of it. Uh......big difference in output. Real big difference as expected. Just got the Sentinel an hour ago (FedEx guy hates me) so I'm just beginning to test it out. Both have the same driver and amplifier so I just set the levels the same and swapped out XLR cables to test between them. Gonna play some other stuff now (Aja, Mark Knopfler, Ms. Krall, etc.)



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post #8231 of 20368 Old 07-17-2009, 08:38 AM
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^^That's a sweet set up.!!
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post #8232 of 20368 Old 07-17-2009, 10:06 AM
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DoingOK, it's awesome that you're doing AB comparisons, it's definitely worth it for people who are trying to determine where the differences are and how much of a difference there is between the two. like where is the sentinel's output greater? just lower end? is the higher mid bass comparable? how's the sound quality comparison when outputing the same volume? is the sealed design really noticably more "musical" than the ported sentinel?

and definitely a good looking set up you've got there
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post #8233 of 20368 Old 07-17-2009, 10:20 AM
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I test my Dynasty with blu-ray of The Incredible Hulk (2008). WOW! The bass was amazingly LOUD and ACCURATE. There were several scenes that startled me. I thought my house was going to fall down.
I have a velodyne SPL12R which I purchase in 2001 and I love that sub to death but man the Dynasty is another level. I turn both sub on & watched The Incredible Hulk. Man I just couldn’t stop grinning from ear to ear. I am going to rewatch alot of my movies again with this beast.
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post #8234 of 20368 Old 07-17-2009, 06:31 PM
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I'm still getting unsatisfactory bass with my Dynasty though it appears to beonly on HD audio movies now. DD and Pro Logic sound great but the bass is almost none existent on HD audio movies. I got to believe this must be a setting within my Denon 2309 receiver; however, I have searched to no avail on correcting this problem. Have any Epik owners experienced this problem? Anyone familiar with the 2309? I have also posted this question in the 2309 forum but I'm hoping someone here might have a quick setting fix for me here.
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post #8235 of 20368 Old 07-17-2009, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaczmarczyk View Post

I'm still getting unsatisfactory bass with my Dynasty though it appears to beonly on HD audio movies now. DD and Pro Logic sound great but the bass is almost none existent on HD audio movies. I got to believe this must be a setting within my Denon 2309 receiver; however, I have searched to no avail on correcting this problem. Have any Epik owners experienced this problem? Anyone familiar with the 2309? I have also posted this question in the 2309 forum but I'm hoping someone here might have a quick setting fix for me here.

whats it calibrated to? did you calibrate it to 75db (or higher) with a radio shack meter?

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post #8236 of 20368 Old 07-17-2009, 06:55 PM
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All speakers were calibrated to 75 before; however, I have rerun Audyssey several times since then following the Audyssey set up guide. Again, non HD Audio bass sounds awesome but HD Audio bass is poor so I'm thinking it's a setting within the AVR vs the speakers not being calibrated correctly.
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post #8237 of 20368 Old 07-17-2009, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaczmarczyk View Post

All speakers were calibrated to 75 before; however, I have rerun Audyssey several times since then following the Audyssey set up guide. Again, non HD Audio bass sounds awesome but HD Audio bass is poor so I'm thinking it's a setting within the AVR vs the speakers not being calibrated correctly.

could it possibly be a setting in the blu-ray player?

Nearfield music: Laptop w/REW & Equalizer APO -> JDS Labs ODAC -> Emotiva Mini-X -> Pioneer SP-BS22-LR & SW8-mk2

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post #8238 of 20368 Old 07-17-2009, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoingOK View Post

For those that are curious what a Vanquish looks like compared to a Sentinel.....here ya go. I was doing a little A-B comparison for the hell of it. Uh......big difference in output. Real big difference as expected. Just got the Sentinel an hour ago (FedEx guy hates me) so I'm just beginning to test it out. Both have the same driver and amplifier so I just set the levels the same and swapped out XLR cables to test between them. Gonna play some other stuff now (Aja, Mark Knopfler, Ms. Krall, etc.)




Dreamy looking
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post #8239 of 20368 Old 07-17-2009, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mcjasonb View Post

could it possibly be a setting in the blu-ray player?

I'm thinking along the same lines. If you are using a PS3 there are a few setup steps you have to take to keep the player from automatically applying a limiting feature. I am completely blanking on what it called and no where near my PS3 at the moment, but I remember the default setting in the PS3 was auto and I had to manually change it to off.

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post #8240 of 20368 Old 07-17-2009, 09:16 PM
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My blu-ray is a Panasonic BD30K and I have been through the menu numerous of times and have searched that forum to no avail as well.
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post #8241 of 20368 Old 07-17-2009, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Gov View Post

Now come on Kids don't stay young forever Soon you will be thinking HT again and will need to get another Phoenix if you sell it, lol!

True, but it's quite a beast to have around to be inactive most of the time. It was far from a waste though - sometimes I have to experience something to determine whether it fits long term. Although this sub has endless amounts of headroom for HT - seriously I don't think it can bottom out in normal situations - it's kind of like .......... that was fun but now it's time to sell it and move on to something that i can get more use out of ... like a nice Integrated w/ a HT bypass for critical 2 channel listening.

I really hope one of you guys that was going to get one of the smaller subs due to budget is able grab my Phnx. That would make me happy. Price is just a few bucks over a Sentinel @ $850 + shipping. $875 w/ Paypal
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post #8242 of 20368 Old 07-17-2009, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaczmarczyk View Post

My blu-ray is a Panasonic BD30K and I have been through the menu numerous of times and have searched that forum to no avail as well.

Turn the audessey off and set all speakers to 75db with the meter. Turn the gain up on the sub. Then turn it down to your liking. Wait...didn't we try this already?
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post #8243 of 20368 Old 07-18-2009, 06:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GPowered View Post

True, but it's quite a beast to have around to be inactive most of the time. It was far from a waste though - sometimes I have to experience something to determine whether it fits long term. Although this sub has endless amounts of headroom for HT - seriously I don't think it can bottom out in normal situations - it's kind of like .......... that was fun but now it's time to sell it and move on to something that i can get more use out of ... like a nice Integrated w/ a HT bypass for critical 2 channel listening.

I really hope one of you guys that was going to get one of the smaller subs due to budget is able grab my Phnx. That would make me happy. Price is just a few bucks over a Sentinel @ $850 + shipping. $875 w/ Paypal

Hey, nice sub, I've been wanting to upgrade! Would you consider driving it down to Ft Myers?
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post #8244 of 20368 Old 07-18-2009, 07:32 AM
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For my fellow Epik owners:

A bit off topic but since everyone here helped me choose the Dyanasty...

I have been on the fence regarding the Buttkicker's for awhile now. I have been reading everything that I could find. This week I bit the bullet and got the Buttkicker LFE kit.

Now I have the Dynasty smacking me in the face and a Buttkicker LFE kicking me in the well...you know.

Absolutely amazing setup. I thought that I would need two kickers but the one is more than I will ever need. I'm only running the amp (included in the kit) at or near the 10 O'clock position and that is all I can take. Any more and I would have to put up a set of ropes and have a licensed ride operator at the controls.

The usual online spots are all back ordered. One even called the company for me and was told that they are back ordered. I did find one place that had them in stock. I ordered it and I had it on my doorstep in 24 hours.

If anyone has been thinking about it...do it. I have played all of my reference material and I'm still grinning I have played music and HT material with the Dynasty on and kicker off, then kicker on. Fantastic match with the two running together. Neither one overpowers the other.

The opening scene of Top Gun when the jet takes off of the carrier. Holy Cow I was on that jet !

the combination of the Dynasty and the Buttkicker put me where I wanted to be. Can I say it...I'm done. No need for any more bass

I don't want to break any possible forum rules. The place that I got it was an "Audio" place on the web with a "Beach" theme. Cheapest price and shipping was $5. The box came in at 44 pounds for the kit. I checked the website this morning and they have 9 in stock. They even called my telephone to verify the order after I placed it online.

Again, thanks all for the help on the Dynasty purchase, maybe I helped someone that was on the Buttkicker fence.

Anyway, off to the basement to run the wire for a more permanent solution.

mrjulius

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post #8245 of 20368 Old 07-18-2009, 07:50 AM
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GPower...check your private messages!!
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post #8246 of 20368 Old 07-18-2009, 10:31 AM
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i just watched Kung Fu Panda on blu-ray with my Sentinel at -8 from reference.

the movie had some pretty good, strong bass and the Sentinel shook the room with ease. there was a lot of low stuff and lots of higher stuff that had some REALLY nice impact. it's worth a watch even though it is a kids movie.

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post #8247 of 20368 Old 07-18-2009, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaczmarczyk View Post

My blu-ray is a Panasonic BD30K and I have been through the menu numerous of times and have searched that forum to no avail as well.

It sounds like your receiver isn't applying the 10-15db LFE boost. You didn't specify if you are connected via HDMI or analog. It usually applies only to analog. Some receivers have a separate LFE setting where you can set it to +10 or +15db. This boost is applied automaticly in through optical or coax, but evidently it's not doing it for your connection method. If yours doesn't have one, then you'll have to boost the sub gain and recablibrate your other sources. I'm using an Oppo BD 83 via analog and my pre/pro doesn't offer BM over analog, so I have to boost the sub gain, up the sub channel trim to +10 and still boost the player's BM to equal the same bass output as digital sources. It's a PITA, but that's what it is. Not the sub's fault.

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #8248 of 20368 Old 07-18-2009, 09:36 PM
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Quote:

sold!!!
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post #8249 of 20368 Old 07-19-2009, 05:39 AM
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sold!!!

Congrats,
What are you thinking of replacing it with??
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post #8250 of 20368 Old 07-19-2009, 07:08 AM
 
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sold!!!

Nice job, now I won't have to drive up to Sarasota! The search goes on.........
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