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post #8251 of 20380 Old 07-20-2009, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

Nice job, now I won't have to drive up to Sarasota! The search goes on.........

I would have jumped on it the minute it was posted.
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post #8252 of 20380 Old 07-20-2009, 01:35 PM
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It's here.....the Phoenix!

First, the bad news.

Got a call from the girlfriend (who kindly waited at home patiently for the FEDEX delivery of the Phoenix, 'cause you have to sign for it).

"Your 'box' is here.....it's big and heavy, too. I can't even push it. Oh, and it's raining, too. So, you probably don't want it sitting in the driveway too long."

Thankfully, she threw a plastic tarp on it. FedEx put it right in front of the garage door. So, my overhang shielded most of it. Not too fond of them putting a box on the wet driveway, though.

I thought the MFW was big. The Phoenix is bigger, and heavier, too. Thankfully, it was packed extremely well, with large thick foam padding covering the entire top, and bottom (not just the corners). Then, the sub itself was shielded in it's own plastic bag, surrounding the entire thing.

Into the house, and down to the lower level, where my main HT is, was more an exercise in shoving, and gravity than it was any sort of carrying.

Now, the good news.

This thing is built like a tank. Very inert cabinet with a smooth black, satin-like finish. Short of a fancy veneer or highly polished black finish, it exudes quality.

My preferred method of set up is to shove it around the room to see what placement works best. With the rubber feet, and its weight that's not an easy chore. So, I set it up exactly where all my other subs were set up. I never was able to do any better in other locations when setting up my other subs. So, that's where it will live.

Plug it in, connect the LFE cable. Turn it on. No hum....no noise whatsoever. Have to say, I tracked down and eliminated ground loop hums in my system a good long while ago. So far, so good.

Did a quick recalibration of my system with MCACC. Then, dialed the Phoenix in further with an SPL meter.

I know sealed subs are kind of the rage right now. But, I have to tell you, this thing plays low and tight. Threw on "John Mayer-Where the Light is" BD. He starts out his concert as a trio. The bass player is excellent on this disk. The Phoenix was very musical and tuneful in playing the bluesy trio's set. Clean, quick bass....no noticeable overhang, nor flabiness I cold note. Very impressed.

A torture disk I always go to is "Serenity". Within the first 5 minutes of this movie, LFE is low and powerful...making more than one sub I've owned rattle and shake. Not the Phoenix. It was very impactful. Not a creak, a rattle, nor a complaint.

Next up, the sonic cannon of "The Hulk". This is the stuff you feel, as well as hear. It makes your stomach a bit rumbly. The Phoenix was the most visceral sub I've ever experienced with this part of the movie.....by a significant margin. Again, no port noise, no strains, no untoward sounds, whatsoever......playing at 90+db.

So, this sub covers a lot of ground....extremely well....from music to action movies. That's my first impression. Well done. Very nice job by Epik.

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #8253 of 20380 Old 07-20-2009, 01:51 PM
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How do you compare it with the MFW-15? I read, the MFW is a bit tighter over the Phoenix.
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post #8254 of 20380 Old 07-20-2009, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

How do you compare it with the MFW-15? I read, the MFW is a bit tighter over the Phoenix.

hksvr....hard to do without having them side by side and to do switching between them.

Overall, I'd say they're relatively close musically. Meaning, both are very, very good. Again, this is only going by memory and one music BD I've played (albeit a very well recorded one). Maybe the MFW is slightly tighter. Then again, that could be a placebo effect, too. As I play more music through the Phoenix, I'll give more of my impressions. I'll try DSOT SACD, and the Beatles "Love" DVD-A. Add in a little Norah Jones (with very nice acoustic bass), and I should be able to give you more impressions.

As visceral as the MFW is, the Phoenix trumps it.....in both SPL, as well as reaching lower into the subsonic areas.

I think Chad may have hit on the magic design "trick". Front firing sub with down firing ports (with long port tubes). When I first spoke with Chad several weeks ago, he said while he was designing the new line, he kept having to make compromises in the performance parameters he was trying to hit for it. It always came back to using a 15" driver (which he was trying to stick to for size considerations) vs 18". He kept coming back to the fact that an 18" driver solved the conundrum.

He said that doesn't mean the 15" offerings don't perform well. Just that for what he wanted the Phoenix (and Dragon, Dynasty) to do, the 18" driver more than fit the bill.

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #8255 of 20380 Old 07-20-2009, 02:26 PM
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graphicguy, how long did it take for delivery of ur sub? i ordered mine last tuesday and havent receive a shipping email yet.
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post #8256 of 20380 Old 07-20-2009, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

It's here.....the Phoenix!



My preferred method of set up is to shove it around the room to see what placement works best. With the rubber feet, and its weight that's not an easy chore. So, I set it up exactly where all my other subs were set up. I never was able to do any better in other locations when setting up my other subs. So, that's where it will live..

You could probably try putting a small blanket or pillowcase or something under it and slide it around to your different locations, then pull it out when you find the spot that gets the bass hot. If you have concerns of the blanket or whatever causing a different sound, you could pull it out at each testing spot.

Congrats on your new purchase!
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post #8257 of 20380 Old 07-20-2009, 03:56 PM
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You can also try sealing it too. That's a good thing.
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post #8258 of 20380 Old 07-20-2009, 05:27 PM
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is250....placed the order on July 5th. Hit my doorstep today. So, almost exactly 2 weeks (which is what Chad said it would be).

Thanks all for the advice of how to move the Phoenix around. Unfortunately, it sits on carpet. So, yanking it around with a blanket underneath really doesn't net me anything.

I'm OK with the where it's at. I know where the nulls and peaks are in my room. I've got an eD eQ2. So, that's what I'll use when I eventually make some sweeps.

Hksvr....I'm more of a ported type of person. I know the sealed subs have their fans. I thought seriously about getting an eD 7s-450, a Rhythmic or the Dragon.

That said, I think these newer ported designs really offer the best of both worlds....good musicality and the extension/headroom/SPL I desire. Just my opinion.

Right now, just enjoying it.

Oh yeah.....thanks for the welcomes, too.

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #8259 of 20380 Old 07-20-2009, 08:50 PM
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I moved my Dragons to the rear of the room. I get better response with the 4 Velodynes up front and the Dragons in the right rear.

John





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post #8260 of 20380 Old 07-20-2009, 08:59 PM
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John,

When are the Conquests going to make it back into your theater?

-Chad
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post #8261 of 20380 Old 07-21-2009, 07:11 AM
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Hello,

In you guys opinion, should I buy (1) Phoenix or get a Sentinel and if i decide I need more get another? Or I guess for that matter a Dragon instead of a Sentinel. How do these subs fare against each other?
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post #8262 of 20380 Old 07-21-2009, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spdr77 View Post

Hello,

In you guys opinion, should I buy (1) Phoenix or get a Sentinel and if i decide I need more get another? Or I guess for that matter a Dragon instead of a Sentinel. How do these subs fare against each other?

What size is your room and is it open to another room?

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post #8263 of 20380 Old 07-21-2009, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spdr77 View Post

Hello,

In you guys opinion, should I buy (1) Phoenix or get a Sentinel and if i decide I need more get another? Or I guess for that matter a Dragon instead of a Sentinel. How do these subs fare against each other?

Best advice I can give is to buy the most sub you can afford and fit into your room now. Otherwise you will most likely suffering from the "what if's" that lead to upgraditis.

~Nick

 

Augustine's Law: "The last 10% of performance generates one-third of the cost and two-thirds of the problems."

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post #8264 of 20380 Old 07-21-2009, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

How do you compare it with the MFW-15? I read, the MFW is a bit tighter over the Phoenix.

I would love to know this myself.

Joe V.
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post #8265 of 20380 Old 07-21-2009, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spdr77 View Post

Hello,

In you guys opinion, should I buy (1) Phoenix or get a Sentinel and if i decide I need more get another? Or I guess for that matter a Dragon instead of a Sentinel. How do these subs fare against each other?

depends what you are looking for and how big your room is.

i have a Sentinel in a 2400 cu ft room. i don't really feel that i need another, but i will most likely get another. i like the idea of having one next to each main front speaker.

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post #8266 of 20380 Old 07-21-2009, 07:54 AM
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Well guys, I took GPowered's pheonix off his hands and once i got this thing dialed in a bit...HOLLY LOW FREQUENCY BATMAN!

Compared to the paradigm seizmic12 that its replaceing It goes lower and louder. The paradigm was a decent performer but it reached its limits very easily compared to the Pheonix! On the pod scene in WOTW ....OHHHH MAMA!!! This sub will shake you off your theater seat! BIG improvement in the mid bass as welll...kick drums hit me in the chest now...something the paradigm just couldnt do in my room. I found the bass to very "tight" and controlled never boomy or bloated. on music(bluray or dvda/sacd) it could be a little overpowering and i had to trim it back a bit but at the right level it blended right in with my mains.( i did have to trim the crossover a bit to get the pheonix to disapear completely). All in all a terrific match. This sub has the power to overcome a pretty bad null in my seating location(smack in the middle of the room!)...and did it without complaining!

Here is the SIC part...I ordered a Dynasty from chad a week ago and just changed it too another Pheonix!!!! Duels Pheonixs in my theater room is gonna be RIDICULOUS....i CANT wait!!!!

Question for you guys....I havnt plugged the ports on the pheonix yet. If I seal it will it be the same as a dragon?? Is a sealed sub a sealed sub or will the enclosure make a difference? Will it be "tuned" the same ect??
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post #8267 of 20380 Old 07-21-2009, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snookfisher View Post


Question for you guys....I havnt plugged the ports on the pheonix yet. If I seal it will it be the same as a dragon?? Is a sealed sub a sealed sub or will the enclosure make a difference? Will it be "tuned" the same ect??

It should be very similar to the Dragon until you hit it's non-defeatable low filter somewhere in high teens.
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post #8268 of 20380 Old 07-21-2009, 08:45 AM
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snookfisher: I think your going to be the first person to run dual Phoenix's. It should be killer. Also, it should have more output than the Conquest.

Looking into the future, I would like to get another Dragon, but the wife is not having it because of it's size. Do you think I can run the Sientinal with the Dragon?
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post #8269 of 20380 Old 07-21-2009, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwv651 View Post

I would love to know this myself.

jwv.....I'm doing this from memory. I can't do a side-by-side as I had to take my MFW apart because of all the issues we've read here at AVS and elsewhere.

So, I can't plug one, and then the other into my system to give you a more informed comparison.

Spent about 3 hours with the Phoenix last night. Got it dialed in well. I used movies and music that I've heard dozens of times. I already spoke about using "Serenity" BD one reference, and "The Hulk" as the other and posted my initial impressions.

Pod scene with WOTW DVD....

The Phoenix does indeed reach lower. You feel this more than you hear it. There's some real subsonics going on in that scene. MFW gave a bit of this. The Phoenix goes lower (I'm guessing reaching into the 12Hz-13Hz range with my room gain), whereas I previously measured a drop off with the MFW right around the 16Hz-18Hz range). The Phoenix "felt" more like a sealed sub with this material. Startling at first, but fun for a bit as I played it 3 times in succession to see if I could stress the Phoenix with increasing volume on my AVR. Couldn't do it. Instead of showing strain, chuffing, rattling, etc, it just got to the point where I gave up before it did. I didn't use an SPL meter, but I'm guessing I was well over 95db when I quit.

I did the same test with the MFW when I first got it. Approaching that same volume, I did get it to rattle (WOTW and the sonic cannon scene in The Hulk were the only times this happened with the MFW). The good part was I was never able to note any port noise with the slotted port on the MFW (same is true for the Phoenix with the down firing ports). But, understand we're talking about levels that are well above what anyone would consider remotely comfortable, and well above reference levels.

On music, this was the hardest test to discern one over the other. I don't play pipe organ music, so I can't tell you what depths those would produce on either sub. However, the DVD-A of Beatles "Love" disk proved very tuneful with the Phoenix. I thought the same of the MFW. Neither one showed any "bloat, boominess, nor bass overhang". I felt they attacked low frequencies with a quickness and solid impact that belie their larger sizes.

The final note(s) of "A Day in the Life" is a real cacophony of bass and strings. On a lesser sub I used to own (12" driver), this becomes a real mish mash of sound and will point out where the driver actually can't keep up. With the Phoenix, it was very clear and easily discernible in its reproduction. I remember with the MFW, I felt the same way. A slight nod goes to the Phoenix as it didn't sound like it was anywhere close to straining.

Norah Jones SACD "Come Away With Me" has a very nice cover of "Cold, Cold Heart". Upright acoustic bass, and Norah's voice dominate. The bass was again quick, tight and clean. There was a palpable sense that the Phoenix did a good job with sounding like......well....an acoustic upright bass. MFW, very close to the same....maybe just a smidge of overhang on this particular number. Could be placebo affect, though.

In general, I was more impressed how such a large sub as the Phoenix could be tuneful and impactful at the same time. I guess the one thing I kept thinking was the Phoenix does everything well. There's not one area where I felt it fell down. Conversely, there's not one area that really stood out, other than the ability to play low, quick and loud without the sense of stress or strain. I'm sure there are some subs that will outperform it in one, maybe a couple of areas (and perhaps fall down in others). The Phoenix, while perhaps not the best in any one category (except for SPL and reaching into the subsonics with ease), I consider it good in all categories.

Understand that the MFW is roughly 1/2 the cost of the Phoenix, and has that beautiful finish (at least in the veneers), it's clear where Chad put his emphasis and development....that is, overall performance...no stress, no strain, nothing that I'd consider in any way a demerit. More capable amp, more capable driver, very careful (and flawless) construction. Pretty amazing given its price tag.

To me, the money for the MFW went into the veneered cabinet. No sense going over the amp "thing" as that's been well-documented. It's also a Seaton design (that's a positive). For $600-$700, it's a good sub, that looks really good to boot. As soon as I get the issues resolved, it will take up residence in a 2nd HT room. While I've not been "inside" the Phoenix (hope I never have to), I have been inside the MFW. Making a generalization, but I'd bet the Phoenix is better constructed with more of an emphasis on quality. For my main listening/watching area, the Phoenix wins!

Would be interesting to see how Chad's 15" offerings compare as they're in that general price range. But, for what the Phoenix has showed me, I don't know that you can do any better at the price (and probably well above).

Just another data point (as this has already become way too lengthy), you'd do much better in spending some time doing set up, whether that be finding the spot where the sub performs best, or implementing some EQ, than fretting over whether sealed or ported is the better option.

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #8270 of 20380 Old 07-21-2009, 09:22 AM
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I mostly Lurk around here, but I just ordered a Dynasty, and am very interested in how it performs. Im replacing a sub I said Id never sell. The Infinity Intermezzo 1.2 (12" CMMD, sealed, 850w RMS BASH amp, concrete (type) cabinet). It honestly sounds like the Fathom. I heard a Fathom at a local shop and then ran the same material in my theater and I actually prefered the Infinity....

My basement is just too large, and im looking for a more effortless sound.

Also I do have an ear for musicallity (was contemplating a large REL), and am interested to see how the dynasty does, and how it matches with my towers.

thats all

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post #8271 of 20380 Old 07-21-2009, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmacdyn View Post

I mostly Lurk around here, but I just ordered a Dynasty, and am very interested in how it performs. Im replacing a sub I said Id never sell. The Infinity Intermezzo 1.2 (12" CMMD, sealed, 850w RMS BASH amp, concrete (type) cabinet). It honestly sounds like the Fathom. I heard a Fathom at a local shop and then ran the same material in my theater and I actually prefered the Infinity....

My basement is just too large, and im looking for a more effortless sound.

Also I do have an ear for musicallity (was contemplating a large REL), and am interested to see how the dynasty does, and how it matches with my towers.

thats all

the dynasty just by looking at the numbers will be a lot louder.

it's ported and it's got an 18" driver. it should walk all over your sealed infinity.

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post #8272 of 20380 Old 07-21-2009, 11:37 AM
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Nice review Graphicguy! It seems like you are enjoying the Phoenix. The Hulk scene and WOTW has pretty amazing bass. The Hulk Cannon's sounds really strong on the Dragon as well. Have you tried Cloverfield? It's like WOTW but tighter.
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post #8273 of 20380 Old 07-21-2009, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

Nice review Graphicguy! It seems like you are enjoying the Phoenix. The Hulk scene and WOTW has pretty amazing bass. The Hulk Cannon's sounds really strong on the Dragon as well. Have you tried Cloverfield? It's like WOTW but tighter.

yup, i had much more fun with Cloverfield than i did with WOTW. awesome bass.

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post #8274 of 20380 Old 07-21-2009, 11:45 AM
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Excellent writeup, Graphicguy. Don't worry about going long with your impressions - a lot of us enjoy the read . BTW, I'm also curious to know how Epik's 15" subs compare to the newer line. It would be fun for me to compare my Castle to the Phoenix to see if there are any obvious differences.
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post #8275 of 20380 Old 07-21-2009, 01:45 PM
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gg, you do know that 95dbs + is barely on in this forum...turn it up, then tell us what you think .

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #8276 of 20380 Old 07-21-2009, 01:52 PM
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Graphicguy...Thanks for your input...Nice write up!

Joe V.
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post #8277 of 20380 Old 07-21-2009, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

gg, you do know that 95dbs + is barely on in this forum...turn it up, then tell us what you think .

i've had my little baby Sentinel doing 108db uncorrected at the listening position during bass heavy movie scenes, and just over 100db during normal rock music.

on the other hand, a second one would easily get me right at reference level.

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post #8278 of 20380 Old 07-21-2009, 02:00 PM
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Nice review graphicguy! I totally agree on the combination of musicality and impact that the Phoenix provides.

-Fellow Phoenix owner. ; )
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post #8279 of 20380 Old 07-21-2009, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

gg, you do know that 95dbs + is barely on in this forum...turn it up, then tell us what you think .

I would like to know the max db from Phoenix owners also. I told my friend about Epik subs and he keep asking "well how much db can it go?". I didnt have any data to reply.
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post #8280 of 20380 Old 07-21-2009, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by is250sp View Post

I would like to know the max db from Phoenix owners also. I told my friend about Epik subs and he keep asking "well how much db can it go?". I didnt have any data to reply.

it's going to greatly depend on the room and the location of the sub, and the location where you are measuring from. one person could probably get 115 out of it in one room and then another person may only get 105 out of it in their room. it would be really hard to guess.

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