Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 280 - AVS Forum
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post #8371 of 20458 Old 07-28-2009, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bambam View Post

Does anyone have any first hand experience with the Dynasty? I'm very interested in a pair of these to take the place of my Klipsch THX Ultra 2 subs. Would I notice an improvement?

If your looking to upgrade your Klipsch's, then yes, you would notice an improvement. I have a Dynasty and the older Tower. I have absolutely no need to upgrade, nor will I.

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post #8372 of 20458 Old 07-28-2009, 01:12 PM
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What is the best set up for cabeling for duals out of the AVR...? One 8-12" y cable )male to 2 females) to allow two sub cables or is there a better way..? Any suggestions were to buy? Mono price doesn't have a very good one. cable type would be dependant on set up I suppose... Thanks!

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post #8373 of 20458 Old 07-28-2009, 01:25 PM
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I used a rca female to two female adapter...

One cable to the adapter, short cable to first sub from adapter, and second cable from adapter to second sub...but really as long as you get a signal to both, you should be fine...


LL

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post #8374 of 20458 Old 07-28-2009, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by theelviscerator View Post

I used a rca female to two female adapter...

One cable to the adapter, short cable to first sub from adapter, and second cable from adapter to second sub...but really as long as you get a signal to both, you should be fine...

Sounds like a good option as I currently have the subs located away from the fron stage and this will keep two cables from having to hide along the wall.. Thanks!

Next Q?: Where would the Antimode 8033 go in this set up?


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post #8375 of 20458 Old 07-28-2009, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by fab5valentine View Post

Sounds like a good option as I currently have the subs located away from the fron stage and this will keep two cables from having to hide along the wall.. Thanks!

Next Q?: Where would the Antimode 8033 go in this set up?


-fab5

exactly...I run my nearfield back wall.

as far as the antimode, I will let others talk, but I would think your LFE out to Antimode, then sep outputs from it, to your dual subs, if it has multiple outputs, there by becoming the adapter, but I could easily be 180 out on that.

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post #8376 of 20458 Old 07-28-2009, 02:36 PM
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As was previously mentioned, the Anti-Mode goes between the LFE out on your AVR and the subs.

AVR's LFE out--->Anti-mode in, then from Anti-mode out--->splitter--->one line to each sub.

~Nick

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post #8377 of 20458 Old 07-28-2009, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

As was previously mentioned, the Anti-Mode goes between the LFE out on your AVR and the subs.

AVR's LFE out--->Anti-mode in, then from Anti-mode out--->splitter--->one line to each sub.

After the Anti Mode, you can use a "Y" splitter on the LFE cable anywhere you want to. I have mine split off at the end of the LFE line.

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post #8378 of 20458 Old 07-28-2009, 04:34 PM
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Snowmanick and theelviscerator....gotta quick question.

Are you guys teaming up your subs with the MFW? I'm not real fond of the idea having two different subs, that are tuned differently, in the same room. But, the thought has crossed my mind.....Phoenix + MFW!

Thoughts?

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post #8379 of 20458 Old 07-28-2009, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

Snowmanick and theelviscerator....gotta quick question.

Are you guys teaming up your subs with the MFW? I'm not real fond of the idea having two different subs, that are tuned differently, in the same room. But, the thought has crossed my mind.....Phoenix + MFW!

Thoughts?

Sure am.....its all I got, so they are turned on!

Well the MFW is on its own till tomorrow or thurs..then it arrives..hopefully tomorrow, since I am off work...

MFW to the left rear position in the corner, for reinforcement, Phoenix out board about 3/8ths of the way down the RR position. Both firing towards front of room...

I have a feeling the ported sub with the MFW will work better actually....

I just ordered the U571 Blu Ray for testing purposes, I have the DD version on my DVR, but we all know the DTS HD MA will kick its butt, besides HULK, TDK,IRON MAN,WOTW, Master and Commander, and Transformers, KFP!

Localization was not an issue with the Dragon in the same setup let me tell you.

Chad called today to let me know the sub was shipping, had some nice chats with the gent.

White Glove Service all the way.

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post #8380 of 20458 Old 07-28-2009, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by theelviscerator View Post

Sure am.....its all I got, so they are turned on!

Well the MFW is on its own till tomorrow or thurs..then it arrives..hopefully tomorrow, since I am off work...

MFW to the left rear position in the corner, for reinforcement, Phoenix out board about 3/8ths of the way down the RR position. Both firing towards front of room...

Localization was not an issue with the Dragon in the same setup let me tell you.

Chad called today to let me know the sub was shipping, had some nice chats with the gent.

White Glove Service all the way.

vis...thanks. Good to know. I'm toying with the idea of putting adding the MFW to the main HT room, to co-habitate with the Phoenix, instead of putting it in a 2nd HT room.

And yes, the times I've spoken to Chad, great guy. Extremely knowledgeable, not only about his own products (which he is very passionate about), but those of his competition.

In my mind, he brings a world of experience and knowledge to the table, given his tremendous Ascendant Audio products, and now, Epik subs.

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post #8381 of 20458 Old 07-28-2009, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

vis...thanks. Good to know. I'm toying with the idea of putting adding the MFW to the main HT room, to co-habitate with the Phoenix, instead of putting it in a 2nd HT room.

And yes, the times I've spoken to Chad, great guy. Extremely knowledgeable, not only about his own products (which he is very passionate about), but those of his competition.

In my mind, he brings a world of experience and knowledge to the table, given his tremendous Ascendant Audio products, and now, Epik subs.

The experimentation is the fun part really...Now I have the incentive to learn REW, I have a spare pc to run it from....got the cords together...just have to DO IT.

I say bring it in, you will be surpised at the instant headroom....

I moved mine into at least 4 diff places and tested...before I put it where I did..

My friend was over...and dozing a tad during the TDK, then he got woke up..hehe...His eyes got wide as saucers, like we had buttkickers installed...

Just a dragon about 20 inches from his hind end...heh.

Those with multiple subs know why they own them!

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post #8382 of 20458 Old 07-28-2009, 05:56 PM
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I've actually sold both of my MFW's recently. I did try teaming the MFW with my Ultra but they never blended well together in my room. I am about ready to order a second Ultra, the wife gave the go ahead with the condition whatever I got had to visually match the other sub (PB-13 Ultra) and our room. I was considering a dual Phoenix setup but they would have looked out of place in our living room. Now I am trying to figure out how to get a Phoenix into my 2 channel rig, which is in the bedroom in a sitting area. Hmm.

I've read of a few people mixing the MFW and an Epik with good results, I'd vte for at least trying it out.

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post #8383 of 20458 Old 07-28-2009, 08:17 PM
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Just wondering, I was using the trusty old RS SPL meter and am wondering which setting I would use to see what dB I am getting during a scene. A or C weighting?? Which one would give me a higher reading as well whether it be falsely high. I understand that the readings aren't that accurate but just out of curiosity. Can't remember which setting I used but the Phoenix sure was a rockin.
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post #8384 of 20458 Old 07-28-2009, 10:02 PM
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Can you believe I actually delayed my Pheonix order from tomorrow (Wed.) to Friday.. Wanted to be home to intercept.. Can't wait till get the duals fired up..

-fab5

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post #8385 of 20458 Old 07-28-2009, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by DoubleATheater View Post

Just wondering, I was using the trusty old RS SPL meter and am wondering which setting I would use to see what dB I am getting during a scene. A or C weighting?? Which one would give me a higher reading as well whether it be falsely high. I understand that the readings aren't that accurate but just out of curiosity. Can't remember which setting I used but the Phoenix sure was a rockin.

C weighting
Fast response

John
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post #8386 of 20458 Old 07-28-2009, 10:48 PM
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Hey guys
I have been away for a week and half (on holiday )and just got caught up on this thread. I see things are goin great!!
Congrats on the new Phoenix, Dan! I knew you would like it




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post #8387 of 20458 Old 07-29-2009, 07:21 AM
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C weighting
Fast response

John

I use Slow response for sine waves and Fast for movies or music.
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post #8388 of 20458 Old 07-29-2009, 07:56 AM
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I am having trouble deciding on an Epik sub!! I want either the Phoenix or the Dragon. Mostly HT use. Please help me decide!!!
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post #8389 of 20458 Old 07-29-2009, 08:04 AM
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Hey guys
I have been away for a week and half (on holiday )and just got caught up on this thread. I see things are goin great!!
Congrats on the new Phoenix, Dan! I knew you would like it

Yes, very pleased. Thanks for all of your insight, patience and guidance, through a lot of my subwoofer travails over the past year. Having been through a HSU VTF3, and an MFW, I can say that the Phoenix trumps both, no matter what parameter you'd want to use....depth, output, visceral-ness, musicality, slam, etc. Just as importantly, I can't seem to trip up the Phoenix (and I've tried). I can't get it to bottom out. I can't get it to make any untoward sounds. Just gobs and gobs of quality LFE.

A couple of nights ago, just for grins, I played test tones through it. One thing that struck me, as I was playing a 10 Hz test tone, I really didn't hear it, but there was a low, stomach punch stream it produced, that actually made the pictures move on my walls. That really doesn't tell anything except that the Phoenix didn't complain. I'm sure there was a roll-off at that frequency. Still, whatever I've thrown at it, there's nothing I've thrown at it that will cause it to strain.

I've got the Phoenix dialed in. Impressive with both movies and music.

While I'm sure I'd love duals, I'm thrilled with a single Phoenix, and don't have the desire for another. Not that my feelings can't change.

snowmanick.....dual Ultras would be very sweet. Although I'm no longer married, I was thinking how I'd explain it to a wife that I needed even more LFE in my HT with dual....well....anything. I would have been hard pressed to make the argument. You've got a good woman....better keep her.

Just tallying up my HT expenditures in '09. I'm at $10K and counting....and I didn't replace everything. Display is good (KURO 60"), AVR is good (Elite SC), sub is good (Phoenix), speakers are good (Rockets). Need to dial back on my personal economic stimulus.

Still looking for a "deal" on HT seating. Nothing wrong with what I've got. Just have a hankerin' for some of those quality power reclining seats with little cup holders and trays.....don't need 3. Two would suffice. Trying to score a deal on some. Seems they come in 3s for the most part, though.

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post #8390 of 20458 Old 07-29-2009, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Rob Horvers View Post

I am having trouble deciding on an Epik sub!! I want either the Phoenix or the Dragon. Mostly HT use. Please help me decide!!!

My Vote would be for the Phoenix.
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post #8391 of 20458 Old 07-29-2009, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Rob Horvers View Post

I am having trouble deciding on an Epik sub!! I want either the Phoenix or the Dragon. Mostly HT use. Please help me decide!!!

phoenix ftw! but if you have the room, get the dynasty and you will never question urself "what if?". i got the phoenix but only because of space constraints, however i am very very very pleased with it.
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post #8392 of 20458 Old 07-29-2009, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Rob Horvers View Post

I am having trouble deciding on an Epik sub!! I want either the Phoenix or the Dragon. Mostly HT use. Please help me decide!!!

for ht definitely the phoenix... maybe even the dynasty for a little extra low end.

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post #8393 of 20458 Old 07-29-2009, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Rob Horvers View Post

I am having trouble deciding on an Epik sub!! I want either the Phoenix or the Dragon. Mostly HT use. Please help me decide!!!

Phoenix

Mine is on the truck for delivery!

I am no longer able to watch a movie. I am monitoring a video display with regards to chroma, brightness, contrast and correct pulldown.
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post #8394 of 20458 Old 07-29-2009, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

Just as importantly, I can't seem to trip up the Phoenix (and I've tried). I can't get it to bottom out. I can't get it to make any untoward sounds. Just gobs and gobs of quality LFE.

Still, whatever I've thrown at it, there's nothing I've thrown at it that will cause it to strain.

The 18" drivers can really take abuse. I was just telling someone, that one day I was playing music for 5hrs straight at -10db's and then a movie at -20db after with no problems. It doesn't let up. It keeps coming back for more.
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post #8395 of 20458 Old 07-29-2009, 09:17 AM
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Ok, so I went and picked up my Dynasty yesterday and threw it in my theater. This isnt my impressions. Ill let you know what I think after I listen to it for a while. I wrestled with it most of the day, tweaking all kinds of things.

And Yes it has gigantic balls that clank when it walks around. You guys who want to run 2 of these are brain damaged! My chalenge now is to get it under control. By that I mean I want it to handle all the detail of a quieter sceen and not set off my car alarm alarm in the action sceens.

I think I might need one of those fancy do-hickys eq thing-a-ma-gigs you kids are all playing with.

With out using one, how do you guys have this thing set up. My Processor is a Harman/Kardon AVR 8000. I am playing around with the speakers large/small (My speakers can handle Full range, Dynaudio Contour 3.3's. And they sound better and fuller when on large) Sub set at LFE or LFE+L&R. It has a Sub peak limiter that I can set at any volume level. Then of course the controls on the sub. I thought I had it dialed when watching Iron Man during subtle music, flying, driving etc...sceens, then some action came and It was over the top loud!

Anywho, gimme a hand. Im a picky sub guy!!

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post #8396 of 20458 Old 07-29-2009, 09:30 AM
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Ok, so I went and picked up my Dynasty yesterday and threw it in my theater. This isnt my impressions. Ill let you know what I think after I listen to it for a while. I wrestled with it most of the day, tweaking all kinds of things.

And Yes it has gigantic balls that clank when it walks around. You guys who want to run 2 of these are brain damaged! My chalenge now is to get it under control. By that I mean I want it to handle all the detail of a quieter sceen and not set off my car alarm alarm in the action sceens.

I think I might need one of those fancy do-hickys eq thing-a-ma-gigs you kids are all playing with.

With out using one, how do you guys have this thing set up. My Processor is a Harman/Kardon AVR 8000. I am playing around with the speakers large/small (My speakers can handle Full range, Dynaudio Contour 3.3's. And they sound better and fuller when on large) Sub set at LFE or LFE+L&R. It has a Sub peak limiter that I can set at any volume level. Then of course the controls on the sub. I thought I had it dialed when watching Iron Man during subtle music, flying, driving etc...sceens, then some action came and It was over the top loud!

Anywho, gimme a hand. Im a picky sub guy!!

Do you have an SPL meter? This is crucial if you don't have a built in EQ in your receiver. You need to try and level match the sub with your front soundstage. You can run the sub about 5-7dbs hot but I wouldn't go louder than that. I use the Audyssey that is built into my Denon for EQ, no need for anything else per REW. I would suggest that you get REW up and running and see if you have big peaks or nulls. If peaks are a problem, then look to get an external EQ like Anti-mode 8033 or a Behringer Feedback Destroyer. If you have nulls, then you may need to move the sub around.

Adding a second sub isn't just about playing louder, but it also helps with nulls and adds headroom which makes the bass sound effortless and helps avoid clipping. Sounds like you have the sub turned up too hot.

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post #8397 of 20458 Old 07-29-2009, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmacdyn View Post

Ok, so I went and picked up my Dynasty yesterday and threw it in my theater. This isnt my impressions. Ill let you know what I think after I listen to it for a while. I wrestled with it most of the day, tweaking all kinds of things.

And Yes it has gigantic balls that clank when it walks around. You guys who want to run 2 of these are brain damaged! My chalenge now is to get it under control. By that I mean I want it to handle all the detail of a quieter sceen and not set off my car alarm alarm in the action sceens.

I think I might need one of those fancy do-hickys eq thing-a-ma-gigs you kids are all playing with.

With out using one, how do you guys have this thing set up. My Processor is a Harman/Kardon AVR 8000. I am playing around with the speakers large/small (My speakers can handle Full range, Dynaudio Contour 3.3's. And they sound better and fuller when on large) Sub set at LFE or LFE+L&R. It has a Sub peak limiter that I can set at any volume level. Then of course the controls on the sub. I thought I had it dialed when watching Iron Man during subtle music, flying, driving etc...sceens, then some action came and It was over the top loud!

Anywho, gimme a hand. Im a picky sub guy!!

1) Make sure the sub is in the best location that you have available to put it for sound and WAF/functionality in the room.

2) Regardless of the size of your mains set your speakers to small. Considering you have capabale speakers set the crossover to around 60 Hz. Here is a brief article that explains why.

3) Set your bass management to LFE only, not LFE+mains. The LFE+Mains sounds impressive first because there is "more" bass but it is most likely mucking it up. Have the sub handle the bass by itself for a week and get used to the sound, you will most likely notice improved detail, speed and low level resolution.

4) Verify your phase is set correctly on the sub woofer and level match it to your mains using an SPL meter (preferably on a tripod in the listening position as your bodies proximity to it can skew results). SPL meters have a bit of known error on deep frequencies, to get a decent match that is still a little hot set it to where the readings are the same for all the speakers and the sub (the level to set to is a little arbitrary as different manufacturers have different volume settings, but most set it for either 75 Db or 80 DB. The key is to have the speakers all set to the same level and to match the sub to that).

5) Turn off any "Night" modes, Dynamic Compression, Sub Compression, sub peak limiters, level limiters.

That should get you in the ball park, you can then look at downloading REW and using your SPL meter and tripod with your computer to measure your room to determine if you want to add external eq. Most rooms can benefit from sound treatments and eq (sub eq's are different than the old school graphic eq's, they are a bit more sophisticated and take a bit of work to set up optimally).

While setting up the sub to a more "reference" level may seem a bit tame at first you will notice the sub blends away and does not draw attention to itself until needed. Also being set up properly, you will be listening closer to what the sound engineer for the film planned, and most likely not set off too many car alarms when watching a movie. No guarantee's on that last one though.

~Nick

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post #8398 of 20458 Old 07-29-2009, 09:51 AM
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Do you have an SPL meter? This is crucial if you don't have a built in EQ in your receiver. You need to try and level match the sub with your front soundstage. You can run the sub about 5-7dbs hot but I wouldn't go louder than that. I use the Audyssey that is built into my Denon for EQ, no need for anything else per REW. I would suggest that you get REW up and running and see if you have big peaks or nulls. If peaks are a problem, then look to get an external EQ like Anti-mode 8033 or a Behringer Feedback Destroyer. If you have nulls, then you may need to move the sub around.

Adding a second sub isn't just about playing louder, but it also helps with nulls and adds headroom which makes the bass sound effortless and helps avoid clipping. Sounds like you have the sub turned up too hot.

Thanks

I do have the Radio Shack Meter. I think I may have to increase the frequency (now its about 60-80hz) and decrease the volume (been playing with 9-12 o'clock). Then I should be able to turn off the peak limiter.

Where I have the sub set up now is the second best place in the room for avoiding "dead spots". (Front stage, left corner) The First best place I think was too close to me and sounded boomy and sloppy. (Back of the room, left corner) I beleive it I have it in the best spot.

I had to stop playing with it late last night, because I really beleive I was experiancing hearing fatigue. The bass was becoming overpowering and I was running my AVR at 0 db (I usually run -6 to -11)

Btw Pipe Organ is out of hand on this thing. But it did spit out some inards (insulation) during it.

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post #8399 of 20458 Old 07-29-2009, 10:30 AM
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Btw Pipe Organ is out of hand on this thing. But it did spit out some inards (insulation) during it.

Out of the port?
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post #8400 of 20458 Old 07-29-2009, 10:38 AM
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1) Make sure the sub is in the best location that you have available to put it for sound and WAF/functionality in the room.

2) Regardless of the size of your mains set your speakers to small. Considering you have capabale speakers set the crossover to around 60 Hz. Here is a brief article that explains why.

3) Set your bass management to LFE only, not LFE+mains. The LFE+Mains sounds impressive first because there is "more" bass but it is most likely mucking it up. Have the sub handle the bass by itself for a week and get used to the sound, you will most likely notice improved detail, speed and low level resolution.

4) Verify your phase is set correctly on the sub woofer and level match it to your mains using an SPL meter (preferably on a tripod in the listening position as your bodies proximity to it can skew results). SPL meters have a bit of known error on deep frequencies, to get a decent match that is still a little hot set it to where the readings are the same for all the speakers and the sub (the level to set to is a little arbitrary as different manufacturers have different volume settings, but most set it for either 75 Db or 80 DB. The key is to have the speakers all set to the same level and to match the sub to that).

5) Turn off any "Night" modes, Dynamic Compression, Sub Compression, sub peak limiters, level limiters.

That should get you in the ball park, you can then look at downloading REW and using your SPL meter and tripod with your computer to measure your room to determine if you want to add external eq. Most rooms can benefit from sound treatments and eq (sub eq's are different than the old school graphic eq's, they are a bit more sophisticated and take a bit of work to set up optimally).

While setting up the sub to a more "reference" level may seem a bit tame at first you will notice the sub blends away and does not draw attention to itself until needed. Also being set up properly, you will be listening closer to what the sound engineer for the film planned, and most likely not set off too many car alarms when watching a movie. No guarantee's on that last one though.

Very correct - Too many guys get a new sub and try to get bass out of any movie and the audio on the other tracks go to hell. Refining YOUR listening with a balanced system is where it is at. Spending the big $$$ that we do on our toys, we want to be able to enjoy the listening experince that the director and sound engineers intended.

Bill
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