Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 20380 Old 10-18-2007, 08:17 AM
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Chad

Do you have a show room or plan to in the future for those of us with in road trip distance?

Do you plan on selling scratch 'n' dents ? (b stock)

I would consider a passive sealed 15 twin but understand why that may not be offered.

I like the idea of keeping the amp in the rack .(easier to monitor the clip lights , I need a bigger QSC PLX ) I don't think crawling behind a sub(s) to adjust the volume is as nice as a volume control in the rack. (I watch mostly dvd concerts and often move the volume up or down a notch)

Looks like a nice American made company!

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post #902 of 20380 Old 10-18-2007, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

Pics for sure...graphs if doable. I'm intrigued by this sub.

Here are some pics I took this morning of my Tower. I am not able to do any graphs...all I have is a Radio Shack SPL meter.
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post #903 of 20380 Old 10-18-2007, 10:58 AM
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One more pic of the amp.

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post #904 of 20380 Old 10-18-2007, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxton50 View Post

Here are some pics I took this morning of my Tower. I am not able to do any graphs...all I have is a Radio Shack SPL meter.

Great pics, and thanks for posting them

But what throws me off, is that is the textured version, I thought they were using the cleaner smooth black version now?

Maybe you were the first to buy a Tower, and they had that one sitting around which happened to be the original paint.
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post #905 of 20380 Old 10-18-2007, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxton50 View Post

Here are some pics I took this morning of my Tower. I am not able to do any graphs...all I have is a Radio Shack SPL meter.

great pics Paxton! thanks Do you have the capacity to take some measurements? would LOVE to see those!
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post #906 of 20380 Old 10-18-2007, 11:31 AM
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Nice pics...thanks...finish looks right to me. Any pics of the sub in relation to your system/room? I realize it's taller and deeper than the U13, but that's my frame of reference for comparison purposes.

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post #907 of 20380 Old 10-18-2007, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Tobester View Post

I have to admit I am confused. I am interested in both the PB13 and the Conquest. I might buy one or the other or both as I have one larger and one smaller room to work with. I have just been looking at Ikka's test of the PB13 at the home theater shack on page 6 of the fall 97 testing. It just went up tonight. As might be expected the SVS put up some very good #s. The surprising thing is that the #s of the PB13 in 15 hz tune very closely resemble the #s of Tom N's test of the Conquest. I would have expected the Conquest to have significantly greater ouput across the board than the much smaller SVS. Not so. The only large difference was at 12.5 hz where the Conquest came in at 103 db (appx) compared to 93 db (appx) for the PB13. I am going from memory and rounding off here but you get my drift. The testing methods were different. Ikka was outside at 2 meters and Tom N. inside a large room. One's idea of acceptable distortion could differ from the other's also. Are the two testing methods that different and if they are how would you compare the two. How would you expect them to differ. I have been under the impression that it is a given the Conquest would out SPL the PB13 and be closer to two PB13s. I can't make that assumption now from the #s I am seeing. I am aware there are other things to consider besides max spl and anxiously await more extensive comparrisons by members who have the chance to listen to both. But in the mean time I would like to know what others think about these two tests. Can you draw any reasonable comparrison or is it to much apples to oranges.

You would really need some GP data to be able to compare the two, TN's measurements does for some reason not always correlate well with GP data. You can find GP data on both the Genelec and the 1812 as well as the PB13 over here

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post #908 of 20380 Old 10-18-2007, 11:50 AM
 
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Chad, could you please post some new pictures of a Valor ?
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post #909 of 20380 Old 10-18-2007, 12:24 PM
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I'm waiting for Craig to post his findings where he compares the eD a7-900 to the Conquest. Those geeky DIY guys know what I'm talking about .
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post #910 of 20380 Old 10-18-2007, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

Nice pics...thanks...finish looks right to me. Any pics of the sub in relation to your system/room? I realize it's taller and deeper than the U13, but that's my frame of reference for comparison purposes.

My room is 13'4" wide x 19' long x 7' high. Attached are pictures of the room and sub placement.

When watching movies and listening to music I can vibrate the couch enough to blur my vision
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post #911 of 20380 Old 10-18-2007, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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nice! looks like you are running some Swan Diva's, is that right?

I assume you tried the sub placement at different positions within the room to see where you got the best response, right? Nearfield (where you have it now) is certainly a good visceral position, but would be interesting to hear to see if you tried it at different points in the room. With a square sealed room like that, you outta have massive room gain! I likes!
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post #912 of 20380 Old 10-18-2007, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

Nice pics...thanks...finish looks right to me. Any pics of the sub in relation to your system/room? I realize it's taller and deeper than the U13, but that's my frame of reference for comparison purposes.

There seems to be two different versions of the finish. the original where it is sort of a rough like texture, then the new one (to my knowledge) which is smooth. The Tower above doesn't look that smooth to me...but maybe it is and I am seeing it wrong.

As you can see in this blog entry here, the Valors appear to be the smooth texture.

http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/blog/?p=18

And if you look back a few pages to where somebody posted pics of the Conquest, it is also smooth.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=550
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=551

And if I am not mistaken, I believe Chad had replied to this and said they were using some new paint or something, and the rough style is no longer.

Ah yes, here is the post, read for yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Kuypers View Post

Finally got a chance to get back to this thread after lots and lots of building subs!! I have been busy working on everything nonstop over here. Four more Conquests got built today alone. The word is apparently spreading fast...

Yeah, we haven't had a chance to update much on the website yet. I apologize for that. The only good thing about that is the reason behind the lack of updated pictures and specs is work spent on new products and improving current ones.

As mwolfe38 has mentioned and shown you, the finish on our products has been greatly improved. (Glad you got your subwoofer up and running by the way!! ) They no longer have the very heavy texture you see on the website pictures. The new finish is fantastic and looks much more refined. We are incredibly pleased with it.

Since this has changed for all of our products, we need to take all new pictures. The problem is that we keep shipping out everything that we build. At least all of our customers have been pleasantly surprised when the product shows up at their door! All customers with the original finish were offered a swap-out for the new finish or a discount if they chose to keep the original.

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post #913 of 20380 Old 10-18-2007, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxton50 View Post

My room is 13'4" wide x 19' long x 7' high. Attached are pictures of the room and sub placement.

When watching movies and listening to music I can vibrate the couch enough to blur my vision

Looks unbalanced...I think you should order another one . Nice room.

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post #914 of 20380 Old 10-18-2007, 04:18 PM
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Good looking room and good looking sub. I have my sub on the back wall also except I have it facing toward the front wall. The couch is almost against the back wall. I have moved the sub around but always go back to the same corner as it seems to be the most uniform and linear. Thanks for the pics.
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post #915 of 20380 Old 10-18-2007, 05:06 PM
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[quote=Tobester;11942771]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

2. "The only large difference was at 12.5 hz where the Conquest came in at 103 db (appx) compared to 93 db (appx) for the PB13." That doesn't sound like a lot? you would theoretically need 3 PB13 stacked together to achieve the extra 10dB!

actually, you would need more than 3 ultras. 3 would only get you 9db more output and that's assuming that they can "couple" with each other properly

we're talking massive extra low end headroom on the conquest vs. the ultra for the same price

how the conquest "sounds" is another story

why is it taking craig so long to get his conquest. didn't he order 2 of them like a year ago ?

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post #916 of 20380 Old 10-18-2007, 05:23 PM
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if i remember correctly he was talking to chad about it the same time i ordered mine.. and chad said it would be a few weeks until he'd be able to get one to craig.. I recieved mine about 3 weeks ago i believe. From the sounds of it chad is making these like crazy so it may be awhile longer..
Anyways, craig seems to have more important concerns right now but hopefully everything turns out good..
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post #917 of 20380 Old 10-18-2007, 05:27 PM
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Paxton's pictures are definitely of the newer, smoother finish. I actually have the original finish on my Caliber, which I like to refer to as the "classic" finish. I guess I'll have to try and get my crappy old camera working for you guys.
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post #918 of 20380 Old 10-18-2007, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwolfe38 View Post

if i remember correctly he was talking to chad about it the same time i ordered mine.. and chad said it would be a few weeks until he'd be able to get one to craig.. I recieved mine about 3 weeks ago i believe. From the sounds of it chad is making these like crazy so it may be awhile longer..
Anyways, craig seems to have more important concerns right now but hopefully everything turns out good..

how do you like it ?

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Okay, here goes with crappy-cam. The color is always off with this thing, so for reference, the sub is very black, and the carpet is supposed to be gunmetal-gray. It's currently sitting between the center channel and right main, on it's side, with the woofer facing sideways in the direction of the center channel. That seemed to anchor the directional sound "front and center" and having what would have been the top facing the seating position provided the highest db at the seating position (per the auto-setup mic attached to my Denon).
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post #920 of 20380 Old 10-18-2007, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorCorps View Post

Okay, here goes with crappy-cam. The color is always off with this thing, so for reference, the sub is very black, and the carpet is supposed to be gunmetal-gray. It's currently sitting between the center channel and right main, on it's side, with the woofer facing sideways in the direction of the center channel. That seemed to anchor the directional sound "front and center" and having what would have been the top facing the seating position provided the highest db at the seating position (per the auto-setup mic attached to my Denon).

Ahh ok, yeah, that looks a LOT more rough than the pics that Paxton took.

So I guess that means the current models paintjobs still aren't smooth-smooth, but still have a bit of roughness to them. Cause Paxtons isn't what I expected the smooth finish to look like. Especially after looking at these pics of the Conquest...that sucker looks as smooth as silk.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=551
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post #921 of 20380 Old 10-18-2007, 11:31 PM
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They are pretty dang smooth.. Mine is anyways.

Quote:


how do you like it ?

Actually i love it. I've commented several times throughout this thread about it..
For instance, i mentioned i've played some scenes from finding nemo and war of the worlds and seen it surpass 120db from listening position.. Even had it up to 125db in a few songs.
As far as sound quality it is awesome. Distortion seems incredibly low and almost non existant until it starts pumping out high spl at say 12 hz (then i can hear a bit but its still way better than any other sub i've heard).

On the downside it definitely isnt meant for an apartment like mine.My position options are very limited given its size. This is a sub you will definitely need to play around with different positions. And in my case i don't have much room to work with.
However, i'll be moving into a larger house in december or january which will have a much much better room in terms of SQ (at least i would hope so).
My current room is very fatiguing because it is very short and wide (well not really wide but wide in comparison to the length), and thus i am close to the speakers and i don't get a very good soundstage. The couch is against the back wall. Part of the back wall opens up to the rest of the downstairs room. The room in the house i'll be moving into is completely different.. Its more like 15x20. The area in the room i'm currently in is around 12x10. However, don't let the small size of the current room fool you. I have the sub facing the opening part to the rest of the room (the opening is large) and thus I don't really get much room gain faced this way compared to if i put it into the corner where it would be facing the wall 10 feet away. Also, the way the stairs come down there is an opening facing the living room, which in reality makes the drawing not very realistic. The only way i could probably get a ton of room gain is placing it in the opposite corner, but my wife has advised me against that due to neighbor concerns.. I dont know if it would be that much louder next door or not though.

Here are some quick drawings i did of my apartment and the new room from the house i'll be moving into..
In the new house the speakers will all be on the opposite side of the room as the windows (ie facing the windows) .. We hould have some drapes or curtains over the windows hopefully minimizing the effects they have.
I dont have dimensions on me at the moment but the room in the new house is about as big as the entire first floor of this apartment that i drew out in the model.
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post #922 of 20380 Old 10-19-2007, 12:24 AM
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[quote=otk;11949349]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobester View Post




actually, you would need more than 3 ultras. 3 would only get you 9db more output and that's assuming that they can "couple" with each other properly

we're talking massive extra low end headroom on the conquest vs. the ultra for the same price

how the conquest "sounds" is another story

That is assuming that TN's room has absolutely no room gain. Take a look at the GP numbers for the HTS6 and compare them to TN's measurements.

At 16hz both avtalk and TN measure about 90db<10%THD, so it looks like there is no room gain

Then take a look at the 1812 at 16hz. TN measures it delivering 101.9db<10%THD, avtalk measures about 93db<10%THD, so now there is 8.9db of room gain at 16hz all of a suddden.

Indoor measurements can not be directly compared to GP data, as you can see for yourself, at best it is inconsistent. And I don't see anyone shouting about TN's FR data for the Conquest, 26hz +/-3.7db

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post #923 of 20380 Old 10-19-2007, 03:50 AM
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[quote=ManicMiner;11951981]
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Originally Posted by otk View Post


That is assuming that TN's room has absolutely no room gain. Take a look at the GP numbers for the HTS6 and compare them to TN's measurements.

At 16hz both avtalk and TN measure about 90db<10%THD, so it looks like there is no room gain

Then take a look at the 1812 at 16hz. TN measures it delivering 101.9db<10%THD, avtalk measures about 93db<10%THD, so now there is 8.9db of room gain at 16hz all of a suddden.

Indoor measurements can not be directly compared to GP data, as you can see for yourself, at best it is inconsistent. And I don't see anyone shouting about TN's FR data for the Conquest, 26hz +/-3.7db

"This system has Herculean SPL capability compared with most other products currently available. The sole exception of course is the Eminent Technology rotary fan subwoofer that costs $13,000 and has an upper bandwith limit of 25Hz. The uniformity of the Conquest dynamic capability exceeds that of any commercial subwoofer I have ever tested."

That is actually how Tom Nousaine concluded his review of the Epik Conquest.
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post #924 of 20380 Old 10-19-2007, 07:35 AM
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So I got the valor home and into the apt last night! Packaging was solid, chad used a stiff foam that protected it very well.

First thing I'll say is that it's not a small, wussy sub that you can hide anywhere. It's definitely bigger than I expected even though I knew the dimensions. The finish is definitely the smooth one, I was pretty impressed.

I didn't have much time to play with it, heck I didn't even have my new sub cable in yet, I just got it this morning. So I used a dual RCA that I had used in my car, and just left 1 unplugged and plugged the other into the LFE on the amp. I burnt a test tone CD just to get a feel for how low it can go after I played some music. I used the music to kinda get it at the level I wanted, I don't have a meter to get it just right. Plus I'll have to do it again in a month anyway when we move into our new house.

So the test tones were really fun, I burnt the one from the basstraps site I think, and each track goes from like 10-19, then 20-29 and so on. So I couldn't feel much at first, but at around 15 or 16hz I started getting a little tingly and by 18hz I could really feel it and the wife said she could feel it in the kitchen, about 20 ft away. It was definitely vibrating the old wood planks in the floor(its an old building) so i didn't turn it up very high. Needless to say I'm pleased with the results.

Even though it's large, it fit well and isn't an eyesore in the room, least to me.

I'll try to take some pics tonight or tomorrow to post, the camera turned up last night with a dead battery of course.
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post #925 of 20380 Old 10-19-2007, 08:50 AM
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nice review imation, glad to hear someone else has an epik sub. The valor would definitely have been the sub for me if i weren't moving into a larger house.

Which site did you get the cd from, i've really been wanting to get my hands on something like that.. Actually within a few days i wont need it though as i just purchased some cables from monoprice so i can hook my pc up to my reciever to generate the tones, then i can use my spl meter to generate a FR graph.. I'd still like having a cd like that though. I found a few in the past but they didnt have very much detail.. For instance a lot of them start at 20 hz and go up in 5db increments or so.
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post #926 of 20380 Old 10-19-2007, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwolfe38 View Post

nice review imation, glad to hear someone else has an epik sub. The valor would definitely have been the sub for me if i weren't moving into a larger house.

Which site did you get the cd from, i've really been wanting to get my hands on something like that.. Actually within a few days i wont need it though as i just purchased some cables from monoprice so i can hook my pc up to my reciever to generate the tones, then i can use my spl meter to generate a FR graph.. I'd still like having a cd like that though. I found a few in the past but they didnt have very much detail.. For instance a lot of them start at 20 hz and go up in 5db increments or so.

http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm

That's where i got it from last night. They're just a set of mp3 sine waves from what i read on the site. Seemed to work for what i wanted it to
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post #927 of 20380 Old 10-19-2007, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwolfe38 View Post

nice review imation, glad to hear someone else has an epik sub. The valor would definitely have been the sub for me if i weren't moving into a larger house.

Which site did you get the cd from, i've really been wanting to get my hands on something like that.. Actually within a few days i wont need it though as i just purchased some cables from monoprice so i can hook my pc up to my reciever to generate the tones, then i can use my spl meter to generate a FR graph.. I'd still like having a cd like that though. I found a few in the past but they didnt have very much detail.. For instance a lot of them start at 20 hz and go up in 5db increments or so.


I have had a Bass Mechaniks CD for a while now, and has always been awesome in testing bass. I dunno what version Bass Mechanik it is, but the first 17 tracks are actual songs, with TONS of bass, meant specifically for bass testing, each varying in frequency's. Then track 18, and 19 do a bunch of weird up and down, back and fourth frequencies covering the whole spectrum, its just fun to listen to cause its almost hypnotic. Then from track 20-99 is actual frequency testing (IE track 20 is 20 Hz, track 21 is 21Hz etc)

Its pretty great.
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post #928 of 20380 Old 10-19-2007, 11:36 AM
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Thanks for the link!

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BTW...For those mentioning size, I found this website in compares different products phsyical size. It's actually pretty cool. Anyways, the link compares the Conquest to the PB13 Ultra. Lets just say WoW - or holy **** if you prefer!!!!!

http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_com...-Epik-Conquest

-The Dave
----Check my QUAD 18" Fi IB Build Thread!! (DONE) King of the 400 lb Gorilla
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post #930 of 20380 Old 10-19-2007, 12:04 PM
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Alright i downloaded those tones, put them on my ipod, and played them from 10hz - 90hz and wrote down the spl at each frequency. I placed the meter near listening position except it was on the couch which means its definitely a bit off from what I actually heard. The graph is not too bad except a pretty big null from 50-65hz. These values are uncorrected and from a radioshack digital spl meter. I'm not positive but i think this meter is pretty far down at 10hz so the low end may be higher in reality.

Note, this is for the epik conquest.
LL
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