Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 334 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #9991 of 20368 Old 11-22-2009, 04:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
deepstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dallas-Irving, TX (from Nawlins!)
Posts: 1,708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Tom, how would you compare the output of a SINGLE Sentinel to the SVS PB12-NSD?

Also, can someone give me their thoughts on comparing a Sentinel with the HSU VTF2-mk3 . Thanks!!
deepstang is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #9992 of 20368 Old 11-22-2009, 10:08 PM
Advanced Member
 
lilmike2069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
OK, so I finally got around to REW tonight. I wasnt sure if I should start a new thread with my setup, measurements, and tweaking since there are a lot of pics. For now I will post them here since it is about the Sentinel, but if anyone prefers that I just start a new thread and move all the pics there to prevent cluttering up this thread, then I will.

First of all, for those that don't already know, I've got Dual Epik Sentinels and a Denon 2310CI with MultEQ. I have a very open floor plan. The main room is about 21'x23.5'x8'-14' vaulted ceiling, which is also open to a 10'x20'x8' kitchen (12' wide opening). HUGE volume to fill. The couch is pretty close to being in the center of the room... I thought this would cause big problems... we shall see in the results.

When I first received the subs, I spent about an hour and a half experimenting with some locations and have not moved them since. Now that they've broken in, I may experiment a little more later but I am quite happy with where they are.

For measurements, I used the Analog Radio Shack SPL Meter with REW and a calibrated Sound Card file and Calibration file for the RS Meter. No smoothing was added to the plots. I performed a quick test with the Duals as pictured here, level matched by eye-balling the gain dial on the amps:



To get an idea of the room size and layout:


Once I performed my quick test I turned the left one off and left the right one on. I adjusted the AVR volume until the subwoofer test tone was targeted to 75dB. Here is the response of the right Sentinel alone with Audyssey MultEQ on:


I was very surprised at how good of a response I was getting considering my room and listening position. Very good low end extension in room also.

Then, I turned the right sub off and turned the left one on. Rather than adjusting the AVR volume until the SPL Meter read 75dB, I adjusted the gain on the Sub. Afterwards, I ran REW and got the following response out of my left Sentinel also with Audyssey on:


So the next step was to measure with both on. For this measurement, I did not adjust the AVR volume down to 75dB so you will get a true representation of how much gain duals is giving me versus a single.


What?!? At 14.9Hz I'm getting the original 75dB target! And I've only got one or two very narrow nulls or dips. On average, the difference in the best performing single and the duals was about 6-7dB.

Just for fun, I decided to see how much work Audyssey was actually doing. So I made a measurement with Duals with Audyssey OFF. Here is the result:


Audyssey clearly made a HUGE difference and allows these sentinels to show their S#IT! Needless to say, I'm a very happy camper. I'm very pleased with the overall output and am a little surprised at how much low end extension I'm getting. Thanks Epik!
lilmike2069 is offline  
post #9993 of 20368 Old 11-22-2009, 10:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jakeman02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 6,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Very nice response and it looks like Audysseys boosting of the low end which I had to fight a little due to placement is really benefiting you with yours. Nice job, enjoy.
Jakeman02 is offline  
post #9994 of 20368 Old 11-23-2009, 12:10 AM
Senior Member
 
irishluck73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
lilmike - Thanks for the pictures and the graphs, I think this is a great thread to have them in. I'm no expert but from the other things I've seen the graphs look like the Sentinels are doing a really good job in your setup.

Any pointers on learning more about REW, where to get it, how it's used and how it can help my setup when my subs arrive?
irishluck73 is offline  
post #9995 of 20368 Old 11-23-2009, 12:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Jakeman02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 6,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishluck73 View Post

Any pointers on learning more about REW, where to get it, how it's used and how it can help my setup when my subs arrive?

It's a free download available at hometheatershack. You need a computer with compatible sound card (which most are), SPL meter (radio shack is the most popular and least expensive) and a few cables. hts also has a REW forum and instructions to get you up to speed.
Jakeman02 is offline  
post #9996 of 20368 Old 11-23-2009, 12:49 AM
Senior Member
 
irishluck73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thank you! Checking it out now.
irishluck73 is offline  
post #9997 of 20368 Old 11-23-2009, 07:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
deepstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dallas-Irving, TX (from Nawlins!)
Posts: 1,708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

Tom, how would you compare the output of a SINGLE Sentinel to the SVS PB12-NSD?

Also, can someone give me their thoughts on comparing a Sentinel with the HSU VTF2-mk3 . Thanks!!

Sorry to do a shameless bump on my eariler post, but I am on the fence again with subs. I have a strong feeling I will be returning my ne PC12-Plus back to SVS and will buy another sub. Since I am pretty happy with my slot ported, 175watt 10" Velodyne I was tempted to get a second and co-locate.

I was wondering how (1) the Sentinel would compare agains the HSU...and more importantly, your thoughts on how the Sentinel would compare to my current Velodyne. I am beginning to think that there is something to all the electronics and processors in the Velodyne. I think it is more than an amp and driver. Any thoughts?
deepstang is offline  
post #9998 of 20368 Old 11-23-2009, 08:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Tom Bley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: IL. USA
Posts: 2,217
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepstang View Post

Sorry to do a shameless bump on my eariler post, but I am on the fence again with subs. I have a strong feeling I will be returning my ne PC12-Plus back to SVS and will buy another sub. Since I am pretty happy with my slot ported, 175watt 10" Velodyne I was tempted to get a second and co-locate.

I was wondering how (1) the Sentinel would compare agains the HSU...and more importantly, your thoughts on how the Sentinel would compare to my current Velodyne. I am beginning to think that there is something to all the electronics and processors in the Velodyne. I think it is more than an amp and driver. Any thoughts?

Sorry I haven't been able to do a PB12-NSD vs 1 Sentinel comparison but, I already know what will win in sound quality. If your happy with current Velodyne then get another if you need the added headroom.
Tom Bley is offline  
post #9999 of 20368 Old 11-23-2009, 09:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bsoko2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 4,315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post

Sorry I haven't been able to do a PB12-NSD vs 1 Sentinel comparison but, I already know what will win in sound quality. If your happy with current Velodyne then get another if you need the added headroom.

Agree! If you are happy with the sub you have and want more, then go with a 2nd one. You will pick up another 3 db by having two subs in the same room.

Bill
bsoko2 is offline  
post #10000 of 20368 Old 11-23-2009, 09:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
goonstopher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NJ near NYC
Posts: 4,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I know it wasn't aimed at me but it is still applicable,

I am more than happy with the sub I have and want more but another dynasty is too much money and wow just overkill unless you are trying to fill a stadium although I have yet to hear anyone with dual dynasty's. Supposedly they should beat a single conquest on ever level but is just out of my budget (600-800, 1000 if it is some sort of amazing steal)

I am actually intrigued by the tweakcity 18' sealed sub because one review I read of the 19ov.02 (my current planned diy sealed platform) to the pb13 ultra (my long lost love I sold and gold standard on SQ) was not very positive on my main SQ issue of overhang/ "stop on a dime" which really destroys the dynamics.
goonstopher is offline  
post #10001 of 20368 Old 11-23-2009, 10:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Tom Bley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: IL. USA
Posts: 2,217
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

I know it wasn't aimed at me but it is still applicable,

I am more than happy with the sub I have and want more but another dynasty is too much money and wow just overkill unless you are trying to fill a stadium although I have yet to hear anyone with dual dynasty's. Supposedly they should beat a single conquest on ever level but is just out of my budget (600-800, 1000 if it is some sort of amazing steal)

I am actually intrigued by the tweakcity 18' sealed sub because one review I read of the 19ov.02 (my current planned diy sealed platform) to the pb13 ultra (my long lost love I sold and gold standard on SQ) was not very positive on my main SQ issue of overhang/ "stop on a dime" which really destroys the dynamics.

There was someone on here w/ dual Dynasties but, they went up for sale and he bought 3 Seaton Submersives.
Tom Bley is offline  
post #10002 of 20368 Old 11-23-2009, 10:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
goonstopher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NJ near NYC
Posts: 4,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post

There was someone on here w/ dual Dynasties but, they went up for sale and he bought 3 Seaton Submersives.

Wow I hope his room was bigger than mine ha

I really have no idea why I want a second sub, I planned on having one so I just want it... I also don't know why I want my as-eq1 because my dynasty is flat (only -4/5db max) to 100hz...
goonstopher is offline  
post #10003 of 20368 Old 11-23-2009, 10:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Snowmanick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,539
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

I know it wasn't aimed at me but it is still applicable,

I am more than happy with the sub I have and want more but another dynasty is too much money and wow just overkill unless you are trying to fill a stadium although I have yet to hear anyone with dual dynasty's. Supposedly they should beat a single conquest on ever level but is just out of my budget (600-800, 1000 if it is some sort of amazing steal)

I am actually intrigued by the tweakcity 18' sealed sub because one review I read of the 19ov.02 (my current planned diy sealed platform) to the pb13 ultra (my long lost love I sold and gold standard on SQ) was not very positive on my main SQ issue of overhang/ "stop on a dime" which really destroys the dynamics.

If I were in your shoes, I would wait to see if a used Tower or Dynasty came on the market, or save a little bit longer and get the second Dynasty.

You have gone through a decent amount of equipment lately and have gained some solid experience with other products. I think you should try a matched pair, with the AS-EQ1 that you have, and then play with setup and/or room treatment from there.

By looking at saving a few $ in the short term you may just be costing yourself more in a few more months if you find you are still not happy.

I hope that doesn't come off as rude, which is totally not my objective, I'm just trying to offer a viewpoint that I am sure you most likely have already thought of but maybe needed reinforcement.

~Nick

 

Augustine's Law: "The last 10% of performance generates one-third of the cost and two-thirds of the problems."

Snowmanick is offline  
post #10004 of 20368 Old 11-23-2009, 11:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
goonstopher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NJ near NYC
Posts: 4,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

If I were in your shoes, I would wait to see if a used Tower or Dynasty came on the market, or save a little bit longer and get the second Dynasty.

You have gone through a decent amount of equipment lately and have gained some solid experience with other products. I think you should try a matched pair, with the AS-EQ1 that you have, and then play with setup and/or room treatment from there.

By looking at saving a few $ in the short term you may just be costing yourself more in a few more months if you find you are still not happy.

I hope that doesn't come off as rude, which is totally not my objective, I'm just trying to offer a viewpoint that I am sure you most likely have already thought of but maybe needed reinforcement.

I agree... Honestly I think I should be happy with the single dynasty and sell the As-Eq1 as well. I really don't need either but I planned on having 2 so my mind it set on it but money is tight. My room is only 1700 cu feet and I have MultEq XT in my onkyo 805
goonstopher is offline  
post #10005 of 20368 Old 11-24-2009, 08:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
g_bartman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: cleveland, oh
Posts: 3,177
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 51
I have had my phoenix for a little over a week now. Very impressive. Can pack a knockout punch when called upon but nice control for music as well. Kudos to the folks at epik. I was lucky to find one fs within a two hour drive from home. Got a good deal and I understand they are back ordered. I can see how they would be.

g_bartman is offline  
post #10006 of 20368 Old 11-24-2009, 08:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
goonstopher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NJ near NYC
Posts: 4,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Is anyone else noticing a very deep sound print from all notes on the larger Epik subs?

I keep feeling like it is focused on staying deep and despite a flat plotted response I feel very little mid bass slam but instead a rumble and throaty sound

Looks like my second sub will be a mid bass machine basically sitting in my lap ha
goonstopher is offline  
post #10007 of 20368 Old 11-24-2009, 08:54 PM
Senior Member
 
irishluck73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

Is anyone else noticing a very deep sound print from all notes on the larger eD subs?

I keep feeling like it is focused on staying deep and despite a flat plotted response I feel very little mid bass slam but instead a rumble and throaty sound

Looks like my second sub will be a mid bass machine basically sitting in my lap ha

eD or Epik?
irishluck73 is offline  
post #10008 of 20368 Old 11-24-2009, 09:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
goonstopher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NJ near NYC
Posts: 4,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishluck73 View Post

eD or Epik?

Thank you... epik.. fixed
goonstopher is offline  
post #10009 of 20368 Old 11-24-2009, 09:19 PM
Member
 
Mister House's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
goonie do you mean like even when a mid-bass note is played the tone of the note seems to be deeper?

Yamaha RX-V3800--Klipsch Icon XF-48 (L/R)--Epik Phoenix x2--DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033
Mister House is offline  
post #10010 of 20368 Old 11-24-2009, 09:19 PM
SRR
AVS Special Member
 
SRR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Question, now I could ask Chad, but I wouldn't want to waste his time. But would it be better to get a second Epik Knight, or sell my current Knight, and get two sentinels? I ask here because maybe someone has done the move from a Knight to a Sentinel/s setup? Oh and I know a search for a second Knight might turn up nothing but if I found one cheap enough...I would be very tempted.

BTW, I am getting into the 13Hz range with one Knight with Audyssey done by a Onkyo 805.

BTW, are you guys taking one reference point with REW? Cause you shouldn't, you need the 7 or 8 that it can do and have it average the plots so you know what the sweet spot and what the rest of the listening area is getting.
SRR is offline  
post #10011 of 20368 Old 11-24-2009, 09:22 PM
Member
 
Mister House's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hey SRR I see you are thinking about selling the Knight and going with 2 Sentinels. Just a heads up to you and everyone else on this thread the sale at Epik is over. I just checked the site today and the ads for them are down.

Yamaha RX-V3800--Klipsch Icon XF-48 (L/R)--Epik Phoenix x2--DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033
Mister House is offline  
post #10012 of 20368 Old 11-24-2009, 09:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
goonstopher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NJ near NYC
Posts: 4,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister House View Post

goonie do you mean like even when a mid-bass note is played the tone of the note seems to be deeper?

Sort of, Id hate to use the word boomy... I'll play around tomorrow I guess.
goonstopher is offline  
post #10013 of 20368 Old 11-24-2009, 09:27 PM
Member
 
Mister House's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

Sort of, Id hate to use the word boomy... I'll play around tomorrow I guess.

Just a thought. I myself have not noticed that in my listening habits but maybe plugging 1 or both ports could give you the sound you need.

Yamaha RX-V3800--Klipsch Icon XF-48 (L/R)--Epik Phoenix x2--DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033
Mister House is offline  
post #10014 of 20368 Old 11-24-2009, 09:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
goonstopher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NJ near NYC
Posts: 4,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Its hard to plug half of a slotted port
goonstopher is offline  
post #10015 of 20368 Old 11-24-2009, 09:30 PM
Member
 
Mister House's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
my bad...... I had forgotten you had a slotted port... I was under the assumption you had a phoenix. I will go back under my rock lol

Yamaha RX-V3800--Klipsch Icon XF-48 (L/R)--Epik Phoenix x2--DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033
Mister House is offline  
post #10016 of 20368 Old 11-24-2009, 09:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
goonstopher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NJ near NYC
Posts: 4,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
No no ha, just saying I'm "stuck" without that option. I have the dynasty
goonstopher is offline  
post #10017 of 20368 Old 11-24-2009, 09:35 PM
Member
 
Mister House's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
lol yeah I totally wasn't thinking. Any chance on changing the crossover point?

Yamaha RX-V3800--Klipsch Icon XF-48 (L/R)--Epik Phoenix x2--DSPeaker Anti-Mode 8033
Mister House is offline  
post #10018 of 20368 Old 11-24-2009, 10:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bsoko2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 4,315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

Is anyone else noticing a very deep sound print from all notes on the larger Epik subs?

I keep feeling like it is focused on staying deep and despite a flat plotted response I feel very little mid bass slam but instead a rumble and throaty sound

Looks like my second sub will be a mid bass machine basically sitting in my lap ha

The Conquest is that way also. That's why I went with a MFW-15 behind the seat and now the bass is throaty but hits hard in the mid range. The sub blend is good and I have a second MFW-15 on the way to pair with the first one.

Bill
bsoko2 is offline  
post #10019 of 20368 Old 11-25-2009, 06:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Hksvr4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 3,383
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 33
The Dragon has really good mid bass slam.
Hksvr4 is offline  
post #10020 of 20368 Old 11-25-2009, 06:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
goonstopher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NJ near NYC
Posts: 4,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

The Conquest is that way also. That's why I went with a MFW-15 behind the seat and now the bass is throaty but hits hard in the mid range. The sub blend is good and I have a second MFW-15 on the way to pair with the first one.

Bill

Thats why I am thinking of a tweakcity sealed 18.1 for next to my seat (it would be insanely close though).

Part of me just wants to make the leap to the danley dts-10 but thats risky for me going DIY and I would have to hire someone.

Do you engage the crossover on the conquest at all or just let them overlap
goonstopher is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
Subwoofers , Epik Legend Subwoofer

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off