Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 380 - AVS Forum
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post #11371 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by m3chris View Post

A Z06? Damn you have some nice toys! Sweet ride.

I live like 10 miles from the plant
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post #11372 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 04:03 PM
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A Z06? Damn you have some nice toys! Sweet ride.

Thanks, I kinda like to go fast. When I just want to slow down (way down) and drive the twisty roads I jump into the slower Porsche. Great handling little car.



So for those that may be interested, here is the Empire next to my Sentinel. I will probably be moving it to a different corner as soon as I finish getting it veneered. Yes....it is not fun to move.....whew

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post #11373 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TnTBigman View Post

The Empire is perfect for music, and really good for movies. On it's own, the Empire is really sweet for music. Yesterday for 4 non stop hrs I've thrown my favorite tracks from Sarah Mclachlan (Mirror Ball), 3rd Eye Blind (Semi Charmed Life), koRn (Follow the Leader, Issues), DMX (Its Dark N Hells Hot, Flesh of My Flesh, Blood of My Blood, And Then There Was X), various reggae dub and instrumentals I'm familiar with....and it was non stop enjoyment. The drums in Mirror Ball tracks, particularly, were present and potent (listening position is center @ 13 ft away from the sub). The intro to one my favorite track (both album and live version) "Possession" had the hairs on the back of my neck stand- not with spl, but how it sounded. Heights y'all. The koRn tracks surprised me allot too. I never liked how they sounded with a single Tower- they seemed to miss something, and after hearing it with the Empire, it was "middle" that was amiss. Mid bass was present and enough low to provide an overall well balanced sound. It didn't once sound strained and not able to produce the material's range. It was more than up to the task and easily handled the bass tricks Fieldy does. All In the Family was just sick. I thoroughly enjoyed the Empire for music. Thoroughly.
Movies were enjoyable was well. Strong mid bass presence that was fast and had no problems getting louder as the material required. Low frequencies were also present but not at Epik Tower levels. Scenes where the Tower just shook the room and the popcorn ceiling felt as if it were about to fall, the Empire shook, but not at that intensity. But it sure handled having to do both mid bass and low deep bass simultaneously very well. No signs of strain or distortion.

....

I very much agree with you. I spent most of yesterday at my friend's house setting up and listening to his new Empire. In his small 1000 cubic foot room it is stunning and a world apart from the Hsu VTF-1 it replaced.

I too was amazed at the Empire's musical abilities. Its integration with the Ascend 340SE mains was superb. As is the ideal, I didn't feel so much that a subwoofer was added as the 340's had become true full range speakers. It is very, very fast, articulate, and dynamic. Whether playing deep 16Hz organ, fat electronica, punchy rock or powerful percussion, the Empire didn't skip a beat and was intoxicating.

On the movie side, I certainly can't imagine wanting anything more in a 1000 cubic foot room. I cannot possibly overstate how critical that powerful mid-bass output is to the impact of movies. To me, it's every bit as important as low frequency extension. The Empire absolutely strikes a superb balance between the two. During the War of the Worlds tripod emergence sequence you simply believe it. You get all the unsettling low frequency dread, but with the mid-bass the event becomes tangible. The footsteps of the tripods feel more like they are coming down on the house and not the screen. I was very much reminded of why WotW seemed so intense in the theater.

The giant transports, from the "You are having a car accident! scene in I, Robot, were portrayed with all the power and weight you would expect from such an object, however, the mid-bass made things like the subtle skipping of the tires over the pavement obvious which helps to add depth to what can simply sound like a rumbling monstrosity.

The warp jumps in Star Trek have a cannon-like quality that is great fun on the Empire.

We watched a number of scenes and were constantly impressed by the upper and lower extension, dynamics and speed of the sub. If this is a taste of what Submersive owners are experiencing then I can totally understand why people have fallen in love with it. If I had to have a single subwoofer, the Empire ticks all the right boxes for my tastes.
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post #11374 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoingOK View Post

Thanks, I kinda like to go fast. When I just want to slow down (way down) and drive the twisty roads I jump into the slower Porsche. Great handling little car.



So for those that may be interested, here is the Empire next to my Sentinel. I will probably be moving it to a different corner as soon as I finish getting it veneered. Yes....it is not fun to move.....whew


I guess your doingok...

How do you compare the finish between Sentinel and Empire? Also, the sound.
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post #11375 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 04:47 PM
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OH.......My......God

I pulled the Sentinel out of it's resting place and plugged the Empire in. Remember, they both have identical amplifiers so I just set everything exactly the same as the Sentinel had(balanced XLR). I put in Timebomb by Dave Matthews since it is a song that I am very familiar with and has a nice kick drum sequence. I got goosebumps when that first drum hit. It felt like someone hit me square in the chest with both fists. I had to have the fiance' come listen to the difference. I don't think she understands nor shares in my giddiness. The Sentinel is a VERY impressive performer in itself, but the Empire just pushed it aside with tighter and more visceral mid bass slam. Impressive.
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post #11376 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

I guess your doingok...

How do you compare the finish between Sentinel and Empire? Also, the sound.

The other three Epiks I have utilize the black painted pebbly texture. The Empire (as confirmed with Chad) actually has a fine textured vinyl veneer surface. I like the new finish slightly better than the older. A little more professional looking.
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post #11377 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by DoingOK View Post

OH.......My......God

I pulled the Sentinel out of it's resting place and plugged the Empire in. Remember, they both have identical amplifiers so I just set everything exactly the same as the Sentinel had(balanced XLR). I put in Timebomb by Dave Matthews since it is a song that I am very familiar with and has a nice kick drum sequence. I got goosebumps when that first drum hit. It felt like someone hit me square in the chest with both fists. I had to have the fiance' come listen to the difference. I don't think she understands nor shares in my giddiness. The Sentinel is a VERY impressive performer in itself, but the Empire just pushed it aside with tighter and more visceral mid bass slam. Impressive.

I think the slam would compare to the Dragon more. With the extra woofer, it would probably dig a little deeper as well and have better top end.
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post #11378 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 05:03 PM
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I fall in love with mine more and more each day. I know alot of people don't believe in break in but I do and this speakers design imo would benefit most from it (small sealed box, fery firm suspension on the drivers out of the box). I expect it to get smoother and dig deeper after another couple dozen hours of play. I have seen it before, now for the L/C/R upgrade, it never ends
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post #11379 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

I think the slam would compare to the Dragon more. With the extra woofer, it would probably dig a little deeper as well and have better top end.

I would tend to agree there. The low end extension is quite impressive as compared to the Sentinel also. I have an old Techmaster PEB song I use for comparison. Wow......I just found out that there are some metal panels in my fireplace that need to be dampened somehow.

I am very impressed with the Castle I have in my living room, but it is built into the wall under the stairs and would be hard for me to put the Empire in it's place for a comparo.
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post #11380 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 05:35 PM
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Can anyone provide some feedback on dual empires for HT ? I'm still on the fence but leaning towards duals for my 2000 cu ft basement HT.
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post #11381 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by D.Rowe View Post

Can anyone provide some feedback on dual empires for HT ? I'm still on the fence but leaning towards duals for my 2000 cu ft basement HT.

Well, considering that the Empire is effortless in a 1000 cubic foot room, I'd imagine that a single one would be plenty for 2000 cubic feet with a pair offering the usual increased headroom and potential for smoother response in room.
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post #11382 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 06:03 PM
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Agreed. In a smaller room they should sound spectacular. Sealed room? Nice room gain? Lord have mercy.

You'll rarely hear anyone say, "I wish I'd gotten less Sub."

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post #11383 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DoingOK View Post

The low end extension is quite impressive as compared to the Sentinel also.

Very cool, so when you say its quite impressive in the low end compared to the Sentinel, do you mean your getting and feeling bass in the lower regions that you never heard with your Sentinel?
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post #11384 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by luvnhateSony View Post

Very cool, so when you say its quite impressive in the low end compared to the Sentinel, do you mean your getting and feeling bass in the lower regions that you never heard with your Sentinel?

In my room.....with the same exact settings.......the same exact song.....the Empire has more overall output to my ears. The low end extension is just as pronounced, it just sounds "cleaner" to my ears. I like my bass to be tight and punchy and the Empire has that sound slightly more so than the Sentinel. Both perform very well in the lower regions with the edge in the mid bass (what I prefer) to the Empire.
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post #11385 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 06:31 PM
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I have to say I find it interesting that Chad seemingly is abandoning the 18" all of a sudden. Just 6-8 months ago he could not say enough about them and how the 18" just has a distinct sound to it and takes things to whole different level. In fact, before I bought my Phoenix from him he told me the Phoenix sounded just like the Conquest, but had less overall output.
I understand that change is good, but to just stop and switch directions like that is strange. Especially since it appeared that the 18" subs were so popular.

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post #11386 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Gov View Post

I have to say I find it interesting that Chad seemingly is abandoning the 18" all of a sudden. Just 6-8 months ago he could not say enough about them and how the 18" just has a distinct sound to it and takes things to whole different level. In fact, before I bought my Phoenix from him he told me the Phoenix sounded just like the Conquest, but had less overall output.
I understand that change is good, but to just stop and switch directions like that is strange. Especially since it appeared that the 18" subs were so popular.

I had a nice conversation with him earlier in the week and without elaborating on the future too much and respecting his privacy, he will most likely have some interesting other options. He said the performance numbers with the Empire right now covers a wide range and almost makes building some of the other models unfeasible. It made sense to me after further discussions. I know he is almost sold out of the first run of Empires but has more supplies coming. After listening to it and comparing it to others in his line, I think it'll be a great seller for awhile. The reason I pulled the trigger is because the Empire (according to Chad) has greater mid bass performance than the Conquest.
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post #11387 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by TnTBigman View Post

Agreed. In a smaller room they should sound spectacular. Sealed room? Nice room gain? Lord have mercy.

My 2000 cu ft. finished basement is almost sealed. 3 concrete walls and concrete floor with rug on top. Bigger question is will duals outdo my PB13?
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post #11388 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 06:44 PM
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There could be all sorts of reasons. Maybe they are transitioning to new drivers for new products and let the remaining stock on old models run out. Maybe they are switching vendors for the drivers and no longer working with the old vendor, so no additional drivers. It's possible that they keep very low stock of drivers on hand, ordering weekly or monthly, due to space or funds or whatever. So when they are getting ready for that new product, they have limited availability. Maybe they are moving to a smaller product line that lets them have something at say $1500, $1000, $600, and whatever. Or as DoingOK mentioned, part of it is probably that he stumbled upon a driver/cabinet/amp combination that performs so well, it makes some of the other models obsolete or redundant, from the consumer POV of price/performance ratio, and maybe from a cost perspective as well.

But yes, it's out of the ordinary, even for an ID company, to drop old product lines and introduce new ones so often. Whatever they do, I hope they do well enough to be able to hire another person to answer phones/email and process orders.
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post #11389 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 06:51 PM
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I think it's a new niche for Epik. The first two lines featured compact sealed and various ported subs with increasing size. 6 different subs in the first line. 5 for the 2nd line. Mabye Epik is focusing it's line to 1) ease up production (different drivers, different enclosures etc etc) while maintaining it's performance and quality control. 2) Offering subs (my guess 2 more new ones to come) to appeal to different price lines. The Empire for the ppl who'd by a $799 sub but wont mind ponying up to $999 or $1099. Then there was "talk" in the past page about a higher end dual seal design in the works for a higher price. Who knows. Mabye veneer options? I wonder if it's the end of ported Epik subs? I'd like to see a Conquest II.

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post #11390 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.Rowe View Post

My 2000 cu ft. finished basement is almost sealed. 3 concrete walls and concrete floor with rug on top. Bigger question is will duals outdo my PB13?

You can try a single and see. 30 day refund (minus shipping). Suprisingly shipping 1 Empire to South Florida only costed $118. It should be cheaper where you're at. UPS in 2008 costed me $185 for the Tower .

You'll rarely hear anyone say, "I wish I'd gotten less Sub."

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post #11391 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TnTBigman View Post

You can try a single and see. 30 day refund (minus shipping). Suprisingly shipping 1 Empire to South Florida only costed $118. It should be cheaper where you're at. UPS in 2008 costed me $185 for the Tower .

True...but if I can sell my PB13 Ultra I will have the $$$ for duals..or will be close to it. CT is only a few states east so I would hope shipping would be $118 or less per Empire.
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post #11392 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.Rowe View Post

My 2000 cu ft. finished basement is almost sealed. 3 concrete walls and concrete floor with rug on top. Bigger question is will duals outdo my PB13?

are you running out of headroom now? If not, dual Empires will not get you anything, even if they did have more output.

As for sound quality....that is more of a guess and subjective.

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post #11393 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by tooskinny View Post

You are correct. Dang I could probably drive to the Epik store then. I read that they moved stores. If so where are they located now.

From what I've read elsewhere, they moved from Crystal Lake to Woodstock.
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post #11394 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 07:59 PM
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There's always something that will be bigger and better. Look at the Danley spud-10, it's an amazing sub. It is big but there are people buying it. Even though there not many ID companies, there is enough competition between them. Just trying to keep up is tough. As the consumer, its extremely hard to just dish out money on a product they can't even hear. Svs hasen't released anything new for a while but when they do people will be all over it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

I have to say I find it interesting that Chad seemingly is abandoning the 18" all of a sudden. Just 6-8 months ago he could not say enough about them and how the 18" just has a distinct sound to it and takes things to whole different level. In fact, before I bought my Phoenix from him he told me the Phoenix sounded just like the Conquest, but had less overall output.
I understand that change is good, but to just stop and switch directions like that is strange. Especially since it appeared that the 18" subs were so popular.

I get the impression that he is more of a passionate hobbyist/engineer than a money-chasing businessman, after speaking with him. I love to make money and there is nothing wrong with that. I just feel that people like him are driven to explore new things and that will always determine the direction of the business. The average person looks at their income statement and that determines the direction of their business. The downside is that product lines will change but how much time did you need to buy a 18" when they were available? The upside is that customers get products that are better than the last at ridiculous prices. Also, you have to be able to shift gears on a dime to survive in business. New products are introduced constantly from competitors at various price range. Sometimes you have to recognize the niches and fill them.

Personally, I currently have an older PC-Ultra that I replaced with the Empire. I absolutely love the ultra but I am 90% music and 10% HT. I tried the new PB12-Plus and didn't like it for music. This is my first sealed sub and I would never had made the jump to a top performing sealed sub if it was going to cost me an arm and a leg. Hence, the Empire is my first Epik sub. Now I must go rest my knees and my back. That thing is a freakin tank. WHOOOOOAA
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post #11396 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 08:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

There's always something that will be bigger and better. Look at the Danley spud-10, it's an amazing sub. It is big but there are people buying it. Even though there not many ID companies, there is enough competition between them. Just trying to keep up is tough. As the consumer, its extremely hard to just dish out money on a product they can't even hear. Svs hasen't released anything new for a while but when they do people will be all over it.

I was waiting for the SVS sealed subs but got sick and tired of the waiting and lack of info. I kept reading their News page. Their last update assert that there was going to be some announcement that was postphoned because of the Haiti disaster. I understand but there is no reason they couldn't put updates under the Red Cross link. After checking day after day I just got annoyed. Who knows if I could afford them anyway. And no the SB12 was not musical to my ears. I didn't expect the empire but it was there.
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post #11397 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

I have to say I find it interesting that Chad seemingly is abandoning the 18" all of a sudden. Just 6-8 months ago he could not say enough about them and how the 18" just has a distinct sound to it and takes things to whole different level. In fact, before I bought my Phoenix from him he told me the Phoenix sounded just like the Conquest, but had less overall output.
I understand that change is good, but to just stop and switch directions like that is strange. Especially since it appeared that the 18" subs were so popular.

As a fellow Phoenix owner, I feel the same way. Not that I'm at all unhappy with my sub, but it just seems really odd.

While I understand that a company needs to keep innovating and evolving, it sure did seem like they had some outstanding products with the 18" line, in both price and performance. It was primarily the user reviews on this thread and Epik's reputation that convinced me to buy the Phoenix. If anything, one might have expected some of the old line to be dropped, with some modifications made, creating a new Phoenix II or Conquest II.

But now, they're no longer offered. Maybe they'll be back in some form in the distant future. Maybe not.

It sure seems like the larger subs had some advantages over the Empire, and having both lines would offer customers a couple of distinct choices. But instead, there's only one now. With no real explanation. At least when the original models were replaced there were reasons given. Not so this time.

Again, I'm very happy with my Phoenix. But at the same time, it just has a weird vibe that a successful product line is suddenly dropped, without any apparent cause or reason.

One has to wonder what product(s) will be available a year from now.

Scott

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post #11398 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 09:46 PM
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Can someone give their opinion on the Empire compared to what I had before? I had two of these JBL 12" ported subs. 8,000cf room. Sounded pretty good for 10 year old product. I just came into the market when the 18" subs were gone back in December. I have a hunger for low end. One empire should beat my old school cheaper set up right?

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Driver 12" High-Polymer Laminate
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post #11399 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

There's always something that will be bigger and better. Look at the Danley spud-10, it's an amazing sub. It is big but there are people buying it. Even though there not many ID companies, there is enough competition between them. Just trying to keep up is tough. As the consumer, its extremely hard to just dish out money on a product they can't even hear. Svs hasen't released anything new for a while but when they do people will be all over it.

SVS has the new pb12 plus that has the new 12.5 driver and theres 2 other new subs due to hit soon
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post #11400 of 20380 Old 02-04-2010, 09:48 PM
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I have to admit its nice to see that the empire is getting good feedback thus far from all the new owners and there happy which is most important. That good news
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