Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 384 - AVS Forum
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post #11491 of 20380 Old 02-06-2010, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by neumei626 View Post

Aw, c'mon man, you could have squeezed a dragon in there! Definitely an empire though it wasn't out yet. Probably even a phoenix! Conquest maybe.....? Hell bash the wall in and stick dual A7-900s in there just cause you can.

I had originally tried fitting a Sentinel in the fiance's office. It was barely too big. I'm good to go with her having the Vanquish....Man Law #26 states no woman is allowed to have a more powerful subwoofer than her man.
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post #11492 of 20380 Old 02-06-2010, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by srw1000 View Post

Introducing a new sub is perfectly understandable.
What seems odd, is to completely discontinue a successful line that compliments the new product, while filling a different niche.
As an example, here's the kind of conversation these decisions produce:
"I bought a really fantastic 18" subwoofer last year."
"Which one?

"It's called a Phoenix, and it's made by Epik subs. It puts out some really powerful and impressive bass, and sounds fantastic in my room."

"Wow, sounds awesome. Where can I get one?"

"Well, uh, it's discontinued. They only sold them for about a year, and aren't making it, or any 18" subs anymore."
"Hmmm, must be really great, then. "

One thing that doesn't seem to change is that Epik provides great products at outstanding prices. And that's the most important thing.

Scott

This is a great observation, in my case just substitute Conquest for Phoenix. I had my eye on a Phoenix before I got an Empire and have wondered about the turnover in models, continuous improvement? With the Conquest for example, that sub was just too huge for the average household, definitely an industrial sized application. Which led to the Phoenix, not quite a Conquest replacement but fit a lot better in most rooms. The Empire is a great sub but cannot surpass my Conquest so far (in my 5000 CF HT). But I didn't buy it for that room and it will be great in my living room, the mid bass it puts out is fantastic, almost Conquest-like. (Disclaimer- I have no measuring equip, just my butt-o-meter).
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post #11493 of 20380 Old 02-06-2010, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by DoingOK View Post

....Man Law #26 states no woman is allowed to have a more powerful subwoofer than her man.

So true! I bought the Empire for my wife because the living room is considered "her cave" vs my dedicated HT area where the Conquest resides. I may end up spending a little more time in her room due to the great musical performance of the Empire. The Conquest is still my "go to" sub for knockdown performance.
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post #11494 of 20380 Old 02-06-2010, 06:30 PM
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I want to add before someone asks- "what about the Empire and the Conquest together?" Lets just say I don't want to go there, if I try it and the results are mind blowing, then I would be compelled to order another Empire. For now I'm just going to pretend that it would cause structural damage or brain hemorrhaging so that I can keep saving for a new Camaro.
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post #11495 of 20380 Old 02-06-2010, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by gilbertma View Post

I want to add before someone asks- "what about the Empire and the Conquest together?" Lets just say I don't want to go there, if I try it and the results are mind blowing, then I would be compelled to order another Empire. For now I'm just going to pretend that it would cause structural damage or brain hemorrhaging so that I can keep saving for a new Camaro.

I have a Conquest and 3 MFW-15's and it is a knockout!

Bill
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post #11496 of 20380 Old 02-06-2010, 08:44 PM
 
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Has anyone watched Live Free or Die Hard with their Empire? WOW!
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post #11497 of 20380 Old 02-06-2010, 11:27 PM
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Hi guys, sorry I'm new, be gentle.

Ok, So I'm a HT enthusiast and am considering an Empire. Currently I have a combination of NHT superone's and two's all the way around with a Velodyne VA-1512 (12 driver, 15 radiator) and with our new place, our theater room has increased in size. The theater area is about 2500cf family room connected to a similar sized living room via a 4 foot "hallway". The theater also has an office attached (at the rear) that's about 1500cf. So, I know that's not an ideal set up but it's what I've got. I know the Epik would be a vast improvement over my 10+ year old Velodyne and was wondering do you think a single Empire would fit the bill? 90% HT 10% TV/Music.

Others I am considering: SVS PB12-Plus, SVS PC12-Plus, Rhythmik D15SE. Budget is around $1200.

Thanks for any help in advance!

Don

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post #11498 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dondino View Post

Hi guys, sorry I'm new, be gentle.

Ok, So I'm a HT enthusiast and am considering an Empire. Currently I have a combination of NHT superone's and two's all the way around with a Velodyne VA-1512 (12 driver, 15 radiator) and with our new place, our theater room has increased in size. The theater area is about 2500cf family room connected to a similar sized living room via a 4 foot "hallway". The theater also has an office attached (at the rear) that's about 1500cf. So, I know that's not an ideal set up but it's what I've got. I know the Epik would be a vast improvement over my 10+ year old Velodyne and was wondering do you think a single Empire would fit the bill? 90% HT 10% TV/Music.

Others I am considering: SVS PB12-Plus, SVS PC12-Plus, Rhythmik D15SE. Budget is around $1200.

Thanks for any help in advance!

Don

As long as you have the freedom to dial in placement I'm sure that a single Empire would be great. If you can get a satisfactory "crawl test" result from your Velodyne in that room then I'd say that you're in good shape.
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post #11499 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dondino View Post

...do you think a single Empire would fit the bill? 90% HT 10% TV/Music.

Don

Don, its not that simple.

I'm happy with a single SVS Ultra 13 in around 6,000 cubic feet open to the rest of the house.

A friend of mine has two DTS-10 (think deafening) in about 2,000 cubic feet and wants more.

No one can really say what will and will not work for you. Expectations vary.

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post #11500 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 09:05 AM
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As i'm gearing up to buy my sub, I'm trying to figure out a lot of what is being talked about. I'm wondering, as of now, I have my front speakers set to large (def tech 7002) and no sub hooked up. When I get the sub and place it in my seating position for the crawl test should I run MCACC (pioneer) prior to testing the room for best position? I assume also, I switch front speakers back to small when I do this as well?
Thanks
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post #11501 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Don, its not that simple.

I'm happy with a single SVS Ultra 13 in around 6,000 cubic feet open to the rest of the house.

A friend of mine has two DTS-10 (think deafening) in about 2,000 cubic feet and wants more.

No one can really say what will and will not work for you. Expectations vary.

I understand the "YMMV" factor but was trying to get something from these forums before I plop $1200+ into a web purchase. I sure as hell don't want to have to deal with returning it. Let me provide a few more details...

My Velo can't handle the deep bass I'm looking for. At best, it goes down to the low 20's. It was a mass market sub and has outlived its usefulness. I'm looking for HT bass that I can feel that's tight. WAF is based on price only. Size is not an issue. I guess I'm not looking for miracles here, I'm just looking for a decent upgrade to the Velo. I *think* a single Empire will fill the bill but if I have to beg a little, I *might* be able to swing a pair.

I guess what I need to know is how does the Empire compare to some of the higher end B&M subs that are available, most of which are superior to my velo.

Thanks.

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post #11502 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socwrkr View Post

As i'm gearing up to buy my sub, I'm trying to figure out a lot of what is being talked about. I'm wondering, as of now, I have my front speakers set to large (def tech 7002) and no sub hooked up. When I get the sub and place it in my seating position for the crawl test should I run MCACC (pioneer) prior to testing the room for best position? I assume also, I switch front speakers back to small when I do this as well?
Thanks

You definitely do not want to try and calibrate your system until after you have finished crawling and then placed the sub in its ideal location. I would certainly switch the mains to small as they are very full range and will make it nearly impossible to get a meaningful crawl test result.
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post #11503 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dondino View Post


I guess what I need to know is how does the Empire compare to some of the higher end B&M subs that are available, most of which are superior to my velo.

Thanks.

I'm in the same boat as you, looking for something completely musical but capable of high output and in an opposed driver configuration. I'm stuck between Empire duals or a Seaton Submersive. I've heard the Submersive in person and it is extremely impressive, but I'm wondering if two Empires could put out just as much output for less money. I've completely dismissed anything B&M because they just aren't in the same performance bracket until you get into the >$10k solutions.

I've got a HSU VTF3mk3 and have gotten to its limit quite a few times.
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post #11504 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 02:18 PM
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How would the Empire compare against say a Hsu ULS-15?
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post #11505 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewm27 View Post

I'm in the same boat as you, looking for something completely musical but capable of high output and in an opposed driver configuration. I'm stuck between Empire duals or a Seaton Submersive. I've heard the Submersive in person and it is extremely impressive, but I'm wondering if two Empires could put out just as much output for less money. I've completely dismissed anything B&M because they just aren't in the same performance bracket until you get into the >$10k solutions.

I've got a HSU VTF3mk3 and have gotten to its limit quite a few times.

For both of you I think the Empire would be a great choice from others that have purchased the Empire but without spec sheets and #s you'd be just going on peeps oppinions thats mixed with early excitement of getting a new sub and theres ear dynos and there own size HT room thats going to vary greatly. I personally would not buy a sub thats being shipped without providing some proof to the pudding sort of speak . Again im not trying to dis credit the new Empire owners and i'm very glad there all happy But I personally would much rather have a professional review and something on paper stating there performance stats. For some reason not many Epic except one or two that I know of have fell into the hands of a reputable forum or magazines for analysis . There could be spec sheets out now as we speak on the Empire but havent looked lately so is I'd check them out. That being said if you decide to go in a different derection then the Empire I would highly recommend the SVS PB12 plus or the SVS Pb13 Ultra they dig deep with very accurate bass and there excellent for HT or music . The PB12 plus has been named Editor sub of the year and gone threw all the paces and tests . Just my 2 cents..ok I better go now before the lynch mob gets here Good luck with your decisions
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post #11506 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post

For both of you I think the Empire would be a great choice from others that have purchased the Empire but without spec sheets and #s you'd be just going on peeps oppinions thats mixed with early excitement of getting a new sub and theres ear dynos and there own size HT room thats going to vary greatly. I personally would not buy a sub thats being shipped without providing some proof to the pudding sort of speak . Again im not trying to dis credit the new Empire owners and i'm very glad there all happy But I personally would much rather have a professional review and something on paper stating there performance stats. For some reason not many Epic except one or two that I know of have fell into the hands of a reputable forum or magazines for analysis . There could be spec sheets out now as we speak on the Empire but havent looked lately so is I'd check them out. That being said if you decide to go in a different derection then the Empire I would highly recommend the SVS PB12 plus or the SVS Pb13 Ultra they dig deep with very accurate bass and there excellent for HT or music . The PB12 plus has been named Editor sub of the year and gone threw all the paces and tests . Just my 2 cents..ok I better go now before the lynch mob gets here Good luck with your decisions

what publication ?
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post #11507 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jrunr View Post

How would the Empire compare against say a Hsu ULS-15?

So far, post 18078695 contains the only mention of a possible near future comparison between the two. Maybe we'll hear something about that soonish.
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post #11508 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 03:12 PM
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Here you go NEEKOS Sound Vision magazine if I remember correctly http://www.svsound.com/Reviews/svs_p...v_rev_1009.pdf
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post #11509 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 03:26 PM
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thanks
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post #11510 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 03:30 PM
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thanks

Your very welcome
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post #11511 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post

For both of you I think the Empire would be a great choice from others that have purchased the Empire but without spec sheets and #s you'd be just going on peeps oppinions thats mixed with early excitement of getting a new sub and theres ear dynos and there own size HT room thats going to vary greatly. I personally would not buy a sub thats being shipped without providing some proof to the pudding sort of speak . Again im not trying to dis credit the new Empire owners and i'm very glad there all happy But I personally would much rather have a professional review and something on paper stating there performance stats. For some reason not many Epic except one or two that I know of have fell into the hands of a reputable forum or magazines for analysis . There could be spec sheets out now as we speak on the Empire but havent looked lately so is I'd check them out. That being said if you decide to go in a different derection then the Empire I would highly recommend the SVS PB12 plus or the SVS Pb13 Ultra they dig deep with very accurate bass and there excellent for HT or music . The PB12 plus has been named Editor sub of the year and gone threw all the paces and tests . Just my 2 cents..ok I better go now before the lynch mob gets here Good luck with your decisions

I listened to a PB12-NSD last night, it sounded boomy and inaccurate compared to my VTF3-mk3. It can get loud and shake the house sure, but can't articulate individual pulses very well.

Even craigsub agrees with that and gives it a pretty low music rating:
http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11

I'm looking for a 80%music/20%HT sub, so it is a hard requirement that it is a sealed sub. I would prefer that also be opposed driver since I can hear a good amount of cabinet resonance from most subs. The quad Seaton Submersive demo at a local meet was one of the best sub setups I've ever heard in terms of output and articulation. I'd like to know if the Empire can get close to that for articulation.
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post #11512 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewm27 View Post

I listened to a PB12-NSD last night, it sounded boomy and inaccurate compared to my VTF3-mk3. It can get loud and shake the house sure, but can't articulate individual pulses very well.

Even craigsub agrees with that and gives it a pretty low music rating:
http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11

I'm looking for a 80%music/20%HT sub, so it is a hard requirement that it is a sealed sub. I would prefer that also be opposed driver since I can hear a good amount of cabinet resonance from most subs. The quad Seaton Submersive demo at a local meet was one of the best sub setups I've ever heard in terms of output and articulation. I'd like to know if the Empire can get close to that for articulation.

The pb12nsd is there entry level sub so its not a fair comparison and I dont know were you heard the pb12nsd at but I had one and it was definitely not boomy so my guess is it wasnt setup properly and or its placement . Step up into the pb12.5 plus and your stepping up into a different world and the plus is the one I posted link about btw not the nsd. Needless to say I own a pb13 ultra and its probably one of the most articulate subs with teeth rattling bass you can find for the dollar "imo" without going to a DIY sub and with a 3 year bumper to bumper warranty and return emails within normal 24 hours and sometime you can even get them by phone on the weekends and always during the week is priceless Also the pb12plus and the ultra are both tunable so you can run them in the sealed mode to give you the best of both worlds, if you want more headroom then run the 15hz tune on the ultra
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post #11513 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post

The pb12nsd is there entry level sub so its not a fair comparison and I dont know were you heard the pb12nsd at but I had one and it was definitely not boomy so my guess is it wasnt setup properly and or its placement . Step up into the pb12.5 plus and your stepping up into a different world and the plus is the one I posted link about btw not the nsd. Needless to say I own a pb13 ultra and its probably one of the most articulate subs with teeth rattling bass you can find for the dollar "imo" without going to a DIY sub and with a 3 year bumper to bumper warranty and return emails within normal 24 hours and sometime you can even get them by phone on the weekends and always during the week is priceless Also the pb12plus and the ultra are both tunable so you can run them in the sealed mode to give you the best of both worlds, if you want more headroom then run the 15hz tune on the ultra

Adding to what TheFacto said, Craig also rated the old PB12 NSD with the 12.3 woofer. The current NSD is on the 12.4 woofer which is step up.

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post #11514 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewm27 View Post

I listened to a PB12-NSD last night, it sounded boomy and inaccurate compared to my VTF3-mk3. It can get loud and shake the house sure, but can't articulate individual pulses very well.

Even craigsub agrees with that and gives it a pretty low music rating:
http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11

I'm looking for a 80%music/20%HT sub, so it is a hard requirement that it is a sealed sub. I would prefer that also be opposed driver since I can hear a good amount of cabinet resonance from most subs. The quad Seaton Submersive demo at a local meet was one of the best sub setups I've ever heard in terms of output and articulation. I'd like to know if the Empire can get close to that for articulation.

While, sadly, I haven't heard the Submersive, I can state without reservation that the Empire excels at articulation and dynamics. It's one of the only subwoofers I have heard that gives proper weight, scale and attack to drums and having played drums for years it's a sound with which I'm quite familiar. As I stated earlier in the thread, I was pretty well shocked by its musical capabilities.
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post #11515 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by vraxoin View Post

While, sadly, I haven't heard the Submersive, I can state without reservation that the Empire excels at articulation and dynamics. It's one of the only subwoofers I have heard that gives proper weight, scale and attack to drums and having played drums for years it's a sound with which I'm quite familiar. As I stated earlier in the thread, I was pretty well shocked by its musical capabilities.

First off very glad your happy with your Empire Thats most important but you said its better than any other sub you"ve heard so what are you comparing it to and what was your previous subs for comparison, just curious and im sure others would like to know to .
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Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post

First off very glad your happy with your Empire Thats most important but you said its better than any other sub you"ve heard so what are you comparing it to and what was your previous subs for comparison, just curious and im sure others would like to know to .

Personally, it easily beats the current PB12 Plus and the HSU VTF2MK3. It is more musical than the SVS and does not bottom out like the HSU. I sold the PB12 Plus and was using the older PC Ultra which I still have. The empire beats the PC Ultra for music and the PC Ultra easily beats the CURRENT PB12 Plus for music as well. However, if your listening is 80% movies and not 80% MUSIC then.........well I would still go for the Empire or older Ultra.
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post #11517 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by mdm1699 View Post

Personally, it easily beats the current PB12 Plus and the HSU VTF2MK3. It is more musical than the SVS and does not bottom out like the HSU. I sold the PB12 Plus and was using the older PC Ultra which I still have. The empire beats the PC Ultra for music and the PC Ultra easily beats the CURRENT PB12 Plus for music as well. However, if your listening is 80% movies and not 80% MUSIC then.........well I would still go for the Empire or older Ultra.

Your saying it beats the new PB12Plus and you owned one ?Well the new PB12 PLUS has a different amp I beleive and A different bigger driver 12.5 that hasn't even been out very long and just recently started shipping so you must have had the old one. Are those your personal comparisons or reviews from a magazine or forums that test them. I dont beleive theres even any specs out on the Empire yet let a lone any tests. If those are your personal observations thats a little different. I doubt highly the Empire will ever make it to a true Professional reviewer before a a new line of there subs come out since they seem replace previous subs more than folks change there cloths So when you say it easily beats a PB 12PLUS the new or the old one I find it hard to beieve unless of course thats just your op. No offence intented.
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post #11518 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dookie1 View Post

so, mine has arrived...

it replaced an outlaw lfm-1ex (350w single 12" ported, hsu vtf3 clone). i've also spent a fair amount of time with a friend's rhythmik f15 while he was 'between places'.

picked it up yesterday, hooked it up last night, re-ran an audyssey xt eq (gain @ 50%) this morning, and, well...

damn!

first thing i played was the desert sniper scene from 'hurt locker'. that .50cal hit *hard*. then some big bass music (jurassic 5). then some more sedate stuff, still with some low end (chris isaak, lyle lovett).

first impressions? like i said...damn! sooo much better than the outlaw. way more visceral when it needs to be, and more musical too...crisp & taught, integrates better with the mains. it has been a while since i had the f15 in the space, but i remember being impressed in the same way by its handling of the music. the empire has it all over what i remember of the f15 in the movie dept, however. all of this is with the sub in the same position, with the same eq process.

now for that sub eq...

I am interested in more detail comparing the Outlaw EX (basically a HSU VTF-3.3) and the RythmikF15 to the Empire. The Rythmik should be hard to beat for Music or HT at moderate volumes. Did you feel the Empire has the edge in terms of sound quality only at high SPL values or there a tangible difference at moderate listening levels as well.
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post #11519 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post

The pb12nsd is there entry level sub so its not a fair comparison and I dont know were you heard the pb12nsd at but I had one and it was definitely not boomy so my guess is it wasnt setup properly and or its placement . Step up into the pb12.5 plus and your stepping up into a different world and the plus is the one I posted link about btw not the nsd. Needless to say I own a pb13 ultra and its probably one of the most articulate subs with teeth rattling bass you can find for the dollar "imo" without going to a DIY sub and with a 3 year bumper to bumper warranty and return emails within normal 24 hours and sometime you can even get them by phone on the weekends and always during the week is priceless Also the pb12plus and the ultra are both tunable so you can run them in the sealed mode to give you the best of both worlds, if you want more headroom then run the 15hz tune on the ultra

Factor forgive me here but doesn't this apply to almost everyone(statement bolded above)? Everyone's set up is gonna be different so you could have the Ultra set up badly and wouldn't sound as good as it should?
I think everyone is giving their own opinions and you have to take it for what's it's worth. I for one do read Sound and Vision and IMO magazines can have an ulterior motive with their reviews and I take it with a grain of salt also.
I value everyone's opinion and I tend to give most everyone the benefit of the doubt and that they are just trying to give us an objective view on what they heard or saw.
Stats and all are nice but I tend to favor more personal real world reviews than stats but again that is just my personal opinion
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post #11520 of 20380 Old 02-07-2010, 07:34 PM
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You know the Empire is so appealing to me. If it performs. I was thinking of buying a HSU ULS-15. Now, how about the Empire and a SVS/Audyssey EQ1 instead. Where is a good review when you need one?
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