Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 404 - AVS Forum
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post #12091 of 20428 Old 02-20-2010, 11:47 AM
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matches the decor quite nicely. thanx for the feedback.

You'll rarely hear anyone say, "I wish I'd gotten less Sub."

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post #12092 of 20428 Old 02-20-2010, 12:39 PM
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Help! Sorry for asking here but I like it here! Any of you can lend me a hand with BFD? I've entered my first filter in it and did a REW and they're exactly the same. The EQ adjustments in REW clearly show there should be a marked improvement in a 1/6 range of around 30hz but it didn't budge at all.

Any idea what I could be doing wrong?

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post #12093 of 20428 Old 02-20-2010, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dondino View Post

Help! Sorry for asking here but I like it here! Any of you can lend me a hand with BFD? I've entered my first filter in it and did a REW and they're exactly the same. The EQ adjustments in REW clearly show there should be a marked improvement in a 1/6 range of around 30hz but it didn't budge at all.

Any idea what I could be doing wrong?

Are you in bypass mode? The top right button on the face of the BFD should be on and solid. If it's off, or blinking, it's in bypass/off mode.

And are you in PEQ mode? And did you make sure to scroll down to the actual 30Hz, set your width, your cut, and double-press the save button?
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post #12094 of 20428 Old 02-20-2010, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

Are you in bypass mode? The top right button on the face of the BFD should be on and solid. If it's off, or blinking, it's in bypass/off mode.

And are you in PEQ mode? And did you make sure to scroll down to the actual 30Hz, set your width, your cut, and double-press the save button?

Bypass, no. The light is off though. The manual says if it is lit, the PEQ filters are disabled. Is this not correct?
PEQ yes.
Yes, yes and yes.



Edit: You're right! The light was supposed to be ON. It's off by default and no where in the guides I've been reading online said anything about that being on. It's working GREAT now... I'll have some updates later. Thanks!!

ala Yoda...

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post #12095 of 20428 Old 02-20-2010, 06:49 PM
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Did some EQ with the BFD and Empires today. 6 filters and some nudging here and there. Check out the before and afters.
LL
LL

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"Tweeters". Heh! "Treble". Heh! A basshead craves not these things! ...
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post #12096 of 20428 Old 02-20-2010, 06:58 PM
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Very nice!

Are you saving your measurements? It helps to output graphs at the same scale of the graph, and same graph limits (ie., 10Hz-200Hz left to right). You can also go to the "measure" tab and show both measurements on the same graph to see how they compare.
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post #12097 of 20428 Old 02-20-2010, 08:50 PM
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Satisfying once you get it all done isn't it?

How did you get rid of that horrible valley at 80 hz?
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post #12098 of 20428 Old 02-20-2010, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sketch2099 View Post

OK, just picked up my dual empires this morning and wanted to give anyone interested my first impressions...HOLY CRAP these are unbelievable. as a background I've owned a SVS PB10-NSD, and Axiom EP-500, and my last sub was an Epik Sentinel. I hooked up just one of the empires first and it completely blew every other sub I've owned out of the water (forgive the enthusiasm, i can't help it). fantastic, tight, mid bass (haven't even run audyssey yet) and CRAZY low end. i was really worried about losing sacrificing the deep stuff going from a sentinel to a empire, but no one should ever worry about that. my girlfriend instantly could tell how much better it sounded than the last sub.

...and then i hooked up the second sub. Gobs and Gobs and Gobs of bass across every frequency. I literally could not believe it. I've been wanting subs that could duplicate the double bass i heard at a Gwar concert a couple months and i finally have it.

My regular bass test disc is the sonic cannon scene in the incredible hulk. i had both empires hooked up, and mistakenly had their gain on 12 o clock. terrible idea. why? because when those sonic cannons went off, oh my god, i've never NEVER experienced bass like that. it was like a giant grabbed my apartment and just shook the hell out of it. i thought the stud walls were going to fall apart. i had to hit the stop button immediately. it was too much. can you believe i just said that? I have too much bass. i had to turn the subs way down to a quarter of their gain just to finish the scene.

that's it for now. i'm going to continue working on placement and EQ to get everything dialed in perfectly. I have a feeling that as amazing as they sound now, they could go so much further in terms of sound quality once i fine tune everything and get some bass traps.

Thanks alot for the very encouraging review, and thanks for the pics. More pics are always nice!

You have got me even more stoked to get my empires now. "Too much bass?" That is something I have never experienced. I love it!
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post #12099 of 20428 Old 02-20-2010, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

Very nice!

Are you saving your measurements? It helps to output graphs at the same scale of the graph, and same graph limits (ie., 10Hz-200Hz left to right). You can also go to the "measure" tab and show both measurements on the same graph to see how they compare.

Ok will do ... I'm was wondering how to do that. Thanks!

ala Yoda...

"Tweeters". Heh! "Treble". Heh! A basshead craves not these things! ...
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post #12100 of 20428 Old 02-20-2010, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by neumei626 View Post

Satisfying once you get it all done isn't it?

How did you get rid of that horrible valley at 80 hz?

Yes very.

A narrowish band and bumped it up about 12db in it's own dedicated filter hehe.

ala Yoda...

"Tweeters". Heh! "Treble". Heh! A basshead craves not these things! ...
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post #12101 of 20428 Old 02-20-2010, 10:43 PM
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Bri, when adding filters is it possible that that dip could come up so much with only a 12db boost, if maybe adding the other filters changed the room acoustics somehow? Because that was a like a 30db valley there. I'm just curious because I have a bad dip there as well from my AVR crossover.

And Dondino, I assume you have beat the hell out of those empires since you've got them, at least for a track or two or a demo scene in a movie or something. If so, when you've really cranked them have you ever heard them show any stress at all? Like anything close to bottoming?
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post #12102 of 20428 Old 02-20-2010, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neumei626 View Post

Bri, when adding filters is it possible that that dip could come up so much with only a 12db boost, if maybe adding the other filters changed the room acoustics somehow? Because that was a like a 30db valley there. I'm just curious because I have a bad dip there as well from my AVR crossover.

And Dondino, I assume you have beat the hell out of those empires since you've got them, at least for a track or two or a demo scene in a movie or something. If so, when you've really cranked them have you ever heard them show any stress at all? Like anything close to bottoming?

I've stressed them pretty good yes. For movies, I've played Iron Man, Star Trek, District 9 etc. Music, I have a CD called Extreme Bass and that's just what it is. For S&G, I've removed a grill on one of the Empires and replayed various sources intentionally hard. At best, there was moderate movement there. There was still plenty of excursion left as far as I could tell in the driver. My old Velo could not have taken that kind of beating and it was not easy to overstress it. They play whatever I toss at them while they kick back on a rocker sippin' iced tea.

The only thing I was hoping for but didn't have my hopes up was for pressurization. I can feel a lot of the bass but it's not very pressurized that I can tell YET. I'm still working on that. But I doubt even dual Empires will give me that for the amount of space I'm filling. The listening area is about 3700 cft but is connected to a great room. We're talking over 10000 cft of pratically open air. And another hall that leads to the rest of the house. That's hard to pressurize I'm thinking and knew that before I bought them. But for me, that would have been just an added bonus. See the attached floor plan.

Disclaimer: I'm just getting back into this stuff. This *could* be "been there done that" kind of bass for some of you die hard bass heads. I don't know. I can only provide my personal feedback here compared to my 12 year old Velo with a 12" driver, 15" radiator 250 watt amp (750 peak).
LL

ala Yoda...

"Tweeters". Heh! "Treble". Heh! A basshead craves not these things! ...
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post #12103 of 20428 Old 02-20-2010, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neumei626 View Post

Bri, when adding filters is it possible that that dip could come up so much with only a 12db boost, if maybe adding the other filters changed the room acoustics somehow? Because that was a like a 30db valley there. I'm just curious because I have a bad dip there as well from my AVR crossover.

Remember, it was more than the EQ. I shifted stuff around while taking measurements. An inch here, a few inches there, more toe-in, less toe-in, phase settings, etc. Not to mention constantly playing around with SPL levels and various gains.

ala Yoda...

"Tweeters". Heh! "Treble". Heh! A basshead craves not these things! ...
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post #12104 of 20428 Old 02-21-2010, 05:43 AM
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I could use some advice here.
I already have a Dynasty dialed in via Antimode 8033.
Can I get an Empire and stack it on top of the Dynasty?

Pros and cons?

How would I set this up with one Antimode?

I currently have an Onkyo 605 with the crippled version of Audessey.

Will there be a noticeable benefit having an Empire and a Dynasty firing together?

Thanks,
I got that feeling again...

The Evil Plan = (Dynasty + Empire) / at 40 Hz !
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post #12105 of 20428 Old 02-21-2010, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dondino View Post

I've stressed them pretty good yes. For movies, I've played Iron Man, Star Trek, District 9 etc. Music, I have a CD called Extreme Bass and that's just what it is. For S&G, I've removed a grill on one of the Empires and replayed various sources intentionally hard. At best, there was moderate movement there. There was still plenty of excursion left as far as I could tell in the driver. My old Velo could not have taken that kind of beating and it was not easy to overstress it. They play whatever I toss at them while they kick back on a rocker sippin' iced tea.

The only thing I was hoping for but didn't have my hopes up was for pressurization. I can feel a lot of the bass but it's not very pressurized that I can tell YET. I'm still working on that. But I doubt even dual Empires will give me that for the amount of space I'm filling. The listening area is about 3700 cft but is connected to a great room. We're talking over 10000 cft of pratically open air. And another hall that leads to the rest of the house. That's hard to pressurize I'm thinking and knew that before I bought them. But for me, that would have been just an added bonus. See the attached floor plan.

Disclaimer: I'm just getting back into this stuff. This *could* be "been there done that" kind of bass for some of you die hard bass heads. I don't know. I can only provide my personal feedback here compared to my 12 year old Velo with a 12" driver, 15" radiator 250 watt amp (750 peak).

even without the great room attached, you'd really do need 2 subwoofers for even a 3700 cft space to get the kind of pressurization you're looking for.
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post #12106 of 20428 Old 02-21-2010, 09:00 AM
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dondino, is there any area in the listening room where you experience pressurization? I'm thing somehwere along near empire #2 you'd get pressurization. That might involve pushing the listening position back abit. What about that "empty"corner on the opposite side of Empire #1? Any impressions with placing Empire #2 there? The "den" looks like you'd get some nice pressurization . Mabye doing a 180 deg wrt the orientation of with the L/R fronts and L sofa.
I was listening to my system the other day and marveled at the pressuriazation I was experiencing at the two corners up front where my Empire n Tower are co-located. My LP pressurization is no where near that amount. You just feel it all over.

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post #12107 of 20428 Old 02-21-2010, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjulius View Post

I could use some advice here.
I already have a Dynasty dialed in via Antimode 8033.
Can I get an Empire and stack it on top of the Dynasty?

Pros and cons?

How would I set this up with one Antimode?

I currently have an Onkyo 605 with the crippled version of Audessey.

Will there be a noticeable benefit having an Empire and a Dynasty firing together?

Thanks,
I got that feeling again...

I was also thinking the same thing,but with a tower.
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post #12108 of 20428 Old 02-21-2010, 09:24 AM
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If you guys can live with the extra height. May be a vertical distraction. The Empire is pretty heavy also (120lbs). The Empire certainly boasted the mid-bass area of my system and listening to music is certainly more enjoyable now in my room.

You'll rarely hear anyone say, "I wish I'd gotten less Sub."

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post #12109 of 20428 Old 02-21-2010, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sketch2099 View Post

even without the great room attached, you'd really do need 2 subwoofers for even a 3700 cft space to get the kind of pressurization you're looking for.

Yes, I agree. Other than evening out the FR, this is another reason why I got 2. Prior to buying this place, I had a spare bedroom we used as the home theater. It was like 1300 sqft. My velo had no problems in there even pressurizing it. When we moved to this new place, I had lost that plus I could tell the Velo was like "omg help" lol.

ala Yoda...

"Tweeters". Heh! "Treble". Heh! A basshead craves not these things! ...
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post #12110 of 20428 Old 02-21-2010, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TnTBigman View Post

dondino, is there any area in the listening room where you experience pressurization? I'm thing somehwere along near empire #2 you'd get pressurization. That might involve pushing the listening position back abit. What about that "empty"corner on the opposite side of Empire #1? Any impressions with placing Empire #2 there? The "den" looks like you'd get some nice pressurization . Mabye doing a 180 deg wrt the orientation of with the L/R fronts and L sofa.
I was listening to my system the other day and marveled at the pressuriazation I was experiencing at the two corners up front where my Empire n Tower are co-located. My LP pressurization is no where near that amount. You just feel it all over.

Yes, right in front of the main entrance to the house lol. I'm sure I can do it but it'll involve a lot more trial and error. Plus, I'm thinking of "plugging" the openings to the rest of the house with temporary sound absorption/reflective foam/insulation board, a few inches thick when we're watching movies. There is WAF with that of course but it'll just be a velcro sorta thing then out of site after the film.

Yes, the last thing I tried was the 2nd Empire in the other corner behind the TV. Inititially, it didn't work but it got late last night and I gave up. I'm going to try some more with that location when I get back from Frys.

I think a negatively contributing factor to this room is the turret. The room is not really rectangular with the front entrance wall curved like that. I'm not sure what sort of affect that's having on the sound. I might end up moving the whole shabang to the great room, at least that's rectangular.

The den is out, that's where the LAN party/office is. 4 gaming rigs for multiplayer gaming with the fellas. Fortunately, there's a double door so we can shut that area off.

Moving around the Empires isn't too much of a deal cuz they're on furniture discs now but the tv is a whole nuther animal. The console it sits on is several hundred pounds and need the other half to help with that one. That's the biggest WAF I have to deal with. I'll try your suggestions after I sneak in a massage to butter her up lol.

ala Yoda...

"Tweeters". Heh! "Treble". Heh! A basshead craves not these things! ...
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post #12111 of 20428 Old 02-21-2010, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjulius View Post

I could use some advice here.
I already have a Dynasty dialed in via Antimode 8033.
Can I get an Empire and stack it on top of the Dynasty?

Pros and cons?

How would I set this up with one Antimode?

I currently have an Onkyo 605 with the crippled version of Audessey.

Will there be a noticeable benefit having an Empire and a Dynasty firing together?

Thanks,
I got that feeling again...

This is just a guess so don't hang me for this "thinking outside of the box" comment. There are 2 outputs on the Anti-mode, 1 in phase and 1 out. What about running the second output on one of the subs and switching it back into phase with the switch on the back of the sub.

Like I said...... just a thought.

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post #12112 of 20428 Old 02-21-2010, 11:10 AM
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I just received my Empire on Thursday, and set it up this weekend. I'm only using the Audyssey on my Onkyo PRSC-886 to calibrate it. I listened to WOTW, Fellowship of the Ring, and I and Legend. Replacing what I really believed was a good set of Outlaws LFM-1 & 2......Holy cow! There were things the Outlaw just didn't reproduce well. I have never heard those movies like that. I love it.
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post #12113 of 20428 Old 02-21-2010, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister House View Post

This is just a guess so don't hang me for this "thinking outside of the box" comment. There are 2 outputs on the Anti-mode, 1 in phase and 1 out. What about running the second output on one of the subs and switching it back into phase with the switch on the back of the sub.

Like I said...... just a thought.

I've always wondered about that. Does that mean it will calibrate two different repsonses or run them together as one??
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post #12114 of 20428 Old 02-21-2010, 11:20 AM
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together as one
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post #12115 of 20428 Old 02-21-2010, 11:22 AM
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I've always wondered about that. Does that mean it will calibrate two different repsonses or run them together as one??

It runs them together as one.

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post #12116 of 20428 Old 02-21-2010, 12:47 PM
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Anti-mode will only hold 1 calibration. It can do an extra room calibration on a 2nd pass if you put the mic in a different area however it all calibrates to one zone.

Thinking about it now I see the error in my "thinking outside of the box" idea. There is no way to calibrate for the "in phase" then re-calibrate for the "out of phase" jacks so that will mean that just "Y-ing" the connection and calibrating while both are in play is essentially the same/best way. I apologize for showing my dunce lol

As you were! lol

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post #12117 of 20428 Old 02-21-2010, 10:25 PM
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Have you guys seen this sub article? Clicky

Good stuff there.

I moved my two empires to the middle of the room, one in the front, one in the back. This seemed to give me the best "default" arrangement and sound with a fairly flat FR. I few nudges with the BFD and I think I'm pretty happy with it.

You dual Empire owners: Have you noticed much of a variation in the SQ/FR whether the Empires are orientated facing forward (drivers firing left/right) vs. facing a side (drivers firing front/back)? I haven't done too much testing with this but I don't want to screw up all my hard work this weekend by testing this out if it's not going to make a noticeable difference.

Thanks ... and by the way, you guys were awfully quiet today!

ala Yoda...

"Tweeters". Heh! "Treble". Heh! A basshead craves not these things! ...
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post #12118 of 20428 Old 02-22-2010, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dondino View Post

Have you guys seen this sub article? Clicky

Good stuff there.

I moved my two empires to the middle of the room, one in the front, one in the back. This seemed to give me the best "default" arrangement and sound with a fairly flat FR. I few nudges with the BFD and I think I'm pretty happy with it.

You dual Empire owners: Have you noticed much of a variation in the SQ/FR whether the Empires are orientated facing forward (drivers firing left/right) vs. facing a side (drivers firing front/back)? I haven't done too much testing with this but I don't want to screw up all my hard work this weekend by testing this out if it's not going to make a noticeable difference.

Thanks ... and by the way, you guys were awfully quiet today!


I tested in a couple different spots with drivers faceing fwd/aft vs left/right and there was no difference in FR or waterfall.
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post #12119 of 20428 Old 02-22-2010, 03:58 AM
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When I think about how the opposing drivers work, it is just hard for me to believe that there is no difference between opposing and same side woofer placement. I just think about the sound waves bouncing around the room, hitting each other and whatnot, screwing each other up. I imagine if the drivers were on the same side, all would be right with the direction the waves are going, since the waves emmited are hitting the same walls and starting in the same direction.

But imagining is all it is, because from talking to Chad and searching around the internet I know this to be false. After all a 20hz soundwave I believe is 54 feet long.... Still, I just can't help but to think it isn't quite as good somehow in some way, as same side driver placement.
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post #12120 of 20428 Old 02-22-2010, 06:48 AM
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LFE is non directional.
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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