Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 419 - AVS Forum
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Chad Kuypers View Post

No, I said that there is an issue with YOUR amplifier. There are now literally hundreds of Empires out there, and in the whole lot of them there have been two bad amplifiers that we replaced, yours being one of them. That is less than 1%. Our 600 watt amplifier is incredibly reliable. It has been since day one.

Just clearing that up.

Thanks for taking the time to post Chad. Before someone starts an "Epik Empire's have bad amps" thread.

The problem with obsessions is that they are insatiable.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:38 AM
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Hey guys, I recently purchased a empire, which I have been very happy with. Now I'm considering getting a sub EQ which it appears many people recommend. I was considering an antimode 8033, I'm wondering if this is a good fit for me. I'm very new to audio, and sub EQing in particular, and from what I've read this is pretty much a plug and play type of sub EQ. (it does the actual work for you to calibrate the sub). Anyone have any experience with these, or is there any other sub EQs people would recommend for someone who really has no clue what they're doing, haha
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by michwill36 View Post

yeah chad already got another one on the way. he the nicest guy ive ever dealt with about electronics. he said there have been issues with the amplifiers . i just told him what it was doing and that was it .

Sneaky lil..............
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by slippery44 View Post

Hey guys, I recently purchased a empire, which I have been very happy with. Now I'm considering getting a sub EQ which it appears many people recommend. I was considering an antimode 8033, I'm wondering if this is a good fit for me. I'm very new to audio, and sub EQing in particular, and from what I've read this is pretty much a plug and play type of sub EQ. (it does the actual work for you to calibrate the sub). Anyone have any experience with these, or is there any other sub EQs people would recommend for someone who really has no clue what they're doing, haha

I am using the 8033 with my conquest. Works great!
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:56 AM
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And the 8033 doesn't calibrate the sub. It eqs the sub to play flat. You still have to level-match it to the speakers on your own.
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:29 PM
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sneaky lil..............:d

lol
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:17 AM
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I finally decided, and ordered my Empire on Monday. Already shipped and headed to Atlanta. I'm outside New Orleans, and I hope to get it by Friday. I guess the shipping is within 5 days, so I hope they move and cut a day off somehow, lol.
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

And the 8033 doesn't calibrate the sub. It eqs the sub to play flat. You still have to level-match it to the speakers on your own.

Whoops, perhaps I used the wrong terminology, but EQing the the sub to have a flat response is what I'm after. I also looked at the BFD (cheaper solution) but reading through a couple BFD guides, I think that may be more involved than I want to be when it looks like the 8033 does most of the work for me.
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slippery44 View Post

Hey guys, I recently purchased a empire, which I have been very happy with. Now I'm considering getting a sub EQ which it appears many people recommend. I was considering an antimode 8033, I'm wondering if this is a good fit for me. I'm very new to audio, and sub EQing in particular, and from what I've read this is pretty much a plug and play type of sub EQ. (it does the actual work for you to calibrate the sub). Anyone have any experience with these, or is there any other sub EQs people would recommend for someone who really has no clue what they're doing, haha

+1 for the Antimode, especially if plug and play is important to you.
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:50 PM
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Well I got my SVS EQ1 set up and eq'd my dual Empires and all I can say is WOW!
What a match made in heaven!
Incredibly smooth and DEEP DEEP DEEP bass.
No more ridiculous boom.
Very happy w/ my new Epik Subs
They're also making great end tables
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Dunlop View Post

Well I got my SVS EQ1 set up and eq'd my dual Empires and all I can say is WOW!
What a match made in heaven!
Incredibly smooth and DEEP DEEP DEEP bass.
No more ridiculous boom.
Very happy w/ my new Epik Subs
They're also making great end tables

Why did I have to read this? LOL
Ok. I have two Empires. Was it worth $800? I can buy another Empire for that much!

Does anyone know if antimode will give me similiar results for less than 1/2 the price? Or should I be ok with my Onkyo 905 (with Aud XT) and BFD?

ala Yoda...

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Old 03-24-2010, 08:30 PM
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Well I got my SVS EQ1 set up and eq'd my dual Empires and all I can say is WOW!
What a match made in heaven!
Incredibly smooth and DEEP DEEP DEEP bass.
No more ridiculous boom.
Very happy w/ my new Epik Subs
They're also making great end tables

Hey Bob any chance you could post your before/after FR graphs that the SVS EQ1 spits out on the pc? Also do you get any shaking on your new end tables?
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:43 PM
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Damn. $800 was worth it?!?! I'll look harder now at the SVS EQ1.

You'll rarely hear anyone say, "I wish I'd gotten less Sub."

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Old 03-24-2010, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by audiochris901 View Post

Hey Bob any chance you could post your before/after FR graphs that the SVS EQ1 spits out on the pc? Also do you get any shaking on your new end tables?

LOL, no shaking Chris
The cool thing is this process only took a few minutes
I definitely think it was worth the $750 for the EQ..at least for me anyway
LL
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Dunlop View Post

LOL, no shaking Chris
The cool thing is this process only took a few minutes
I definitely think it was worth the $750 for the EQ..at least for me anyway

what kinda smoothing is on it? 1/3 ?

I guess the question would be to anyone who knows the answer...
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by porksoda View Post

what kinda smoothing is on it? 1/3 ?

I guess the question would be to anyone who knows the answer...

yes, its 1/3.

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Old 03-24-2010, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Dunlop View Post

LOL, no shaking Chris
The cool thing is this process only took a few minutes
I definitely think it was worth the $750 for the EQ..at least for me anyway

From what I understand, if you already have Aud on your receiver/pro, you have to re-run the complete Aud set up in your receiver with the eq1, then run the eq1 setup after. This should take about an hour or so.

Damn you! Now I have to figger out how to sucker the gf into this ...

Incidently, does this also correct phase issues? Like that time domain thingie I don't quite understand?

ala Yoda...

"Tweeters". Heh! "Treble". Heh! A basshead craves not these things! ...
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by porksoda View Post

what kinda smoothing is on it? 1/3 ?

I guess the question would be to anyone who knows the answer...

If I remember correctly from the Audessey threads, the after "measurement" isn't really a measurement, it is the target that Audessey will try to hit. Someone correct me if I am wrong. Audessey does not take a measurement after in makes the corrections.

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Old 03-24-2010, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dondino View Post

From what I understand, if you already have Aud on your receiver/pro, you have to re-run the complete Aud set up in your receiver with the eq1, then run the eq1 setup after. This should take about an hour or so.

Damn you! Now I have to figger out how to sucker the gf into this ...

Incidently, does this also correct phase issues? Like that time domain thingie I don't quite understand?

Nah...30 minutes tops ..Pioneer Elite SC-07 MCACC only takes a few minutes and the SVS EQ doesn't take very long..I did 9 seating positions
Been watching U571,Hulk,Flight of the Pheonix,2012...all sound awesome now!
And yes..it seems to correct all phase and time issues.
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Old 03-25-2010, 05:13 AM
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I wanted to get an idea from a couple of you on the shipping experience from DB Schenker? I assume you have to be home to receive the Epik, and help with the unloading? Is it just the driver and you to get it up the steps to the door? Do they take the pallet and strapping off and dispose themselves?
Are they easy to work with???
I'm a big guy, and think I can handle it once inside my split level. It's not the weight that scares me, it's the size of the thing... Maybe for a tip they could help me downstairs, too?
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Old 03-25-2010, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by cschang View Post

If I remember correctly from the Audessey threads, the after "measurement" isn't really a measurement, it is the target that Audessey will try to hit. Someone correct me if I am wrong. Audessey does not take a measurement after in makes the corrections.

well then... all that graph was some magical fairytale we don't know what it actually looked like after it ran the eq on the sub. If it's just the target curve and not the actual curve after corrections.

I guess someone should use rew to run before and after... so we can see what kind of improvements.
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Old 03-25-2010, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by porksoda View Post

well then... all that graph was some magical fairytale we don't know what it actually looked like after it ran the eq on the sub. If it's just the target curve and not the actual curve after corrections.

I guess someone should use rew to run before and after... so we can see what kind of improvements.

Actually, as Chris from Audyssey has described it, the after should be accurate because, in essence, you're talking basic math that actually works. If you turn up your volume 3 dB, the volume in your room goes up 3 dB. Same idea, according to Chris. Just broken down into smaller frequency areas.

While I think before and after measurements from an independent source makes sense, it is unlikely that you would exactly reproduce the Audyssey "after" result because Audyssey is developing its corrections based on its own proprietary approach to combining information from multiple tests at multiple locations. You might get close if you could precisely recreate the exact mic locations from the Audyssey run and then average them, but I suspect that Audyssey does something a little more sophisticated than a simple average whe it looks at the multiple test results and determines how to correct.
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Old 03-25-2010, 07:17 AM
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Actually, as Chris from Audyssey has described it, the after should be accurate because, in essence, you're talking basic math that actually works. If you turn up your volume 3 dB, the volume in your room goes up 3 dB. Same idea, according to Chris. Just broken down into smaller frequency areas.

While I think before and after measurements from an independent source makes sense, it is unlikely that you would exactly reproduce the Audyssey "after" result because Audyssey is developing its corrections based on its own proprietary approach to combining information from multiple tests at multiple locations. You might get close if you could precisely recreate the exact mic locations from the Audyssey run and then average them, but I suspect that Audyssey does something a little more sophisticated than a simple average whe it looks at the multiple test results and determines how to correct.

Well audyssey uses math and there are a few algorithms in text books for smoothing curves. I don't think audyssey goes beyond math and physics... whatever it does its obviously noticable or it wouldn't have so many followers... I am not really curious on how it does it. I just would like to see whatever it did the graph of the final product which is easily done by running rew before and after to see what it did.
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Old 03-25-2010, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by porksoda View Post

Well audyssey uses math and there are a few algorithms in text books for smoothing curves. I don't think audyssey goes beyond math and physics... whatever it does its obviously noticable or it wouldn't have so many followers... I am not really curious on how it does it. I just would like to see whatever it did the graph of the final product which is easily done by running rew before and after to see what it did.



There's been a lot written about how audyssey seems to do well for some people and not good for others. We've even had someone say that in a well treated room they turned it off as the eqing made it sound worst but then took the same receiver to an untreated room and it made the sound better.

Just an observation...its a crapshoot.

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Old 03-25-2010, 07:54 AM
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There's been a lot written about how audyssey seems to do well for some people and not good for others. We've even had someone say that in a well treated room they turned it off as the eqing made it sound worst but then took the same receiver to an untreated room and it made the sound better.

Just an observation...its a crapshoot.

I think its one of the reasons i am opting for manually eq'ing my sub... i can see what's happening and if i don't like certain dips or peaks that i tamed/increased I can bring it back up to the way i like it.

It's going to be a lot of work.

I still think for people who like the click press click done approach the audyssy and antimode probably fit the bill.
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by porksoda View Post

Well audyssey uses math and there are a few algorithms in text books for smoothing curves. I don't think audyssey goes beyond math and physics... whatever it does its obviously noticable or it wouldn't have so many followers... I am not really curious on how it does it. I just would like to see whatever it did the graph of the final product which is easily done by running rew before and after to see what it did.

Well, maybe you meant "magical fairytale" in a good way. My point was that, at least according to Audyssey, it is not actually necessary to re-test becaus math is math and physics is physics. FOr example, I know 3+1 = 4. I can check it out by pulling some coins from my pocket, putting 3 in a pile, adding one, and then counting the number of coins in the pile. I don't need to do that, because I know the number of coins in the pile will be 4.
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:25 AM
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Well, maybe you meant "magical fairytale" in a good way. My point was that, at least according to Audyssey, it is not actually necessary to re-test becaus math is math and physics is physics. FOr example, I know 3+1 = 4. I can check it out by pulling some coins from my pocket, putting 3 in a pile, adding one, and then counting the number of coins in the pile. I don't need to do that, because I know the number of coins in the pile will be 4.

well fairy tale in a good way where it "sounds" good to the end user.

Fairy tale in a suspicious way where we don't know how much correction was done and how well the peaks were tamed and how the perceived sound was better but was it as good as it gets? Without before and after of difficult rooms its uncertain.
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:49 AM
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well fairy tale in a good way where it "sounds" good to the end user.

Fairy tale in a suspicious way where we don't know how much correction was done and how well the peaks were tamed and how the perceived sound was better but was it as good as it gets? Without before and after of difficult rooms its uncertain.

But if you can imagine accepting the notion that before responsepPlus (and minus) the filters will give a known result, absolute, based on physics and math, it is not necessary to "count the coins," you can just know there what the result is and display it.

That's the approach Audyssey takes.

As I said, nothing wrong with independent confirmation, just don't expect it to exactly match the Audyssey curve, not (necessarily) because Audyssey's curve is "wrong" but because you cannot fully replicate the way the curve is designed.

Since Audyssey is a for-profit business, we have to respect (or at least live with) their desire not to share certain details of their processes with people who might seek to use the concepts to become competitors, so we will not know the details.
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:54 AM
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But if you can imagine accepting the notion that before responsepPlus (and minus) the filters will give a known result, absolute, based on physics and math, it is not necessary to "count the coins," you can just know there what the result is and display it.

That's the approach Audyssey takes.

As I said, nothing wrong with independent confirmation, just don't expect it to exactly match the Audyssey curve, not (necessarily) because Audyssey's curve is "wrong" but because you cannot fully replicate the way the curve is designed.

Since Audyssey is a for-profit business, we have to respect (or at least live with) their desire not to share certain details of their processes with people who might seek to use the concepts to become competitors, so we will not know the details.

agreed.

my point is that it is algorithm based not ai based. In this case they may have x amount of cases to fit the parameters based on reading to apply the proper technique for curve manipulation... but how does a user know its done the right way... it's a bit too much faith in one device.

I am not interested in the process at all i just want to see the end product i.e the final plot.

A bad analogy would be to ask a carpenter to make a chair for you thats very comfortable relatively and the carpenter makes the chair but he only shows you the picture of what it should look like and you are never allowed to look at the chair... you can sit on it but never really look at it.
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:56 AM
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Questions:

If I use the 18" driver and amp out of the Dragon. Make a cabinet just like the Phoenix. Do you think it would be the same? I have a friend that does excellent wood work. I was thinking how a ported sub would work and sound. How about using just the driver and get a more power amp. This might be harder though.
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