Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 427 - AVS Forum
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post #12781 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by mdm1699 View Post

You folks need to stop this nonsense. If the looks and weight of a driver is so important then go with the Fathoms or build your own using the LMS 18 inchers. The strength of good subwoofers is that they are engineered for maximum performance based on driver, amp, enclosure combination. My recent PC-12 Ultra(beautiful driver) used to flap with some movies like Star Trek. All those scenes were handled with ease by my Empire. The submersive is a well-engineered sub but I never hear anyone rave about it's drivers. I have read a lot about how well-designed the amp is. It is just a well designed product when taken as a whole. The empire is a well-designed product when taken as a whole. My old Acoustic Research 108ps was a well designed product when taken as a whole. If you haven't notice, they all have different price points. Better yet, the new Sub 25 is a well designed product when taken as a whole. The new SB16-Ultra will be a well designed product as well at $3k-$4k??? The Empire is a very solid option at it's price point.

I wouldnt call it nonsense lol thats for sure and the pc12 ultra is a totaly different sub from The PB13 from its driver to its boxed enclosure. There is no comparison. But yes at its price point the Empire may be a option but myself I'd rather have one excellent sub vs two thats good at its price point . Im not sure about you but if I saw a driver that looked cheaply made vs one that had a massive magnet built like a tank that would be for sure something to consider and I wouldnt call it nonsense

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post #12782 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 06:26 AM
 
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I wouldnt call it nonsense lol thats for sure and the pc12 ultra is a totaly different sub from The PB13 from its driver to its boxed enclosure. There is no comparison. But yes at its price point the Empire may be a option but myself I'd rather have one excellent sub vs two thats good at its price point . Im not sure about you but if I saw a driver that looked cheaply made vs one that had a massive magnet built like a tank that would be for sure something to consider and I wouldnt call it nonsense

It is nonsense. Having a beautiful driver does not guarantee that you will have a design that gets the most out of it. Isn't that why most of us don't build our own? I have owned the PC12-Ultra, current PB12-plus, SB12-plus, and the PB10nsd. They are well made subs but I found the SB12-Plus to be the most musical while the PC12-Ultra proved best at both. I decided to try the Empire and it bested them all easily and happens to be cheaper than the current PB12-plus. I was never a big fan of hip hop music but this sub has me listening to genres I never cared about before. I wish there was a smaller version for the bedroom. Hey Chad are you listening? The SVS are well made subs but are not for everybody. So is Paradigm, Seaton, Fathoms, Velodynes, HSU, Rythmik, etc.
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post #12783 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 06:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post

I wouldnt call it nonsense lol thats for sure and the pc12 ultra is a totaly different sub from The PB13 from its driver to its boxed enclosure. There is no comparison. But yes at its price point the Empire may be a option but myself I'd rather have one excellent sub vs two thats good at its price point . Im not sure about you but if I saw a driver that looked cheaply made vs one that had a massive magnet built like a tank that would be for sure something to consider and I wouldnt call it nonsense

AND EPIKS ofcourse.
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post #12784 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 07:42 AM
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I believe we can all agree to disagree on several aspects or factors of subs. What seems to be lost here is how each product will perform in different environments or HT's. We all have personal preferences on ported/sealed, design, looks, sub quality/weight, etc., but you don't know how they will perform for YOU until you get them home! We all have gone through the same stress & frustration(or fun) of making this decision. It's hard to part with upwards of $2000 or more without complete confidence in the product. Bluvette, you have a little advantage in being able to pick up and/or return your subs to Epik at no cost(other than gas). I live near Epik and that was a factor I considered as well; along with supporting a local company. SVS has a very good reputation, and a solid product. I think you can read Epik has built quite the following as well. Gather as much info as you can from those offering it up, filter what you need to. All subs can be eq'd a bit to help in different rooms, so make this a fun experience. For what it's worth, I've had dual Empires for 2 months, and am very happy. They shake my whole house when I want them to. I am not even close to the same league as some you will here from as I am new to the HT game, but it is fun learning. Remember, you have no one to blame but yourself for the decision you make no matter what somebody tells you!
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post #12785 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitbull24 View Post

I believe we can all agree to disagree on several aspects or factors of subs. What seems to be lost here is how each product will perform in different environments or HT's. We all have personal preferences on ported/sealed, design, looks, sub quality/weight, etc., but you don't know how they will perform for YOU until you get them home! We all have gone through the same stress & frustration(or fun) of making this decision. It's hard to part with upwards of $2000 or more without complete confidence in the product. Bluvette, you have a little advantage in being able to pick up and/or return your subs to Epik at no cost(other than gas). I live near Epik and that was a factor I considered as well; along with supporting a local company. SVS has a very good reputation, and a solid product. I think you can read Epik has built quite the following as well. Gather as much info as you can from those offering it up, filter what you need to. All subs can be eq'd a bit to help in different rooms, so make this a fun experience. For what it's worth, I've had dual Empires for 2 months, and am very happy. They shake my whole house when I want them to. I am not even close to the same league as some you will here from as I am new to the HT game, but it is fun learning. Remember, you have no one to blame but yourself for the decision you make no matter what somebody tells you!

Well put
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post #12786 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 12:54 PM
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I have the Dragon for about a year now, and it's still an amazing sub.
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post #12787 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 02:21 PM
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i want an epik empire...
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post #12788 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by aboroth00 View Post

i want an epik empire...

Ditto. I am waiting, patiently, on my order.

Anyone spoken to Chad lately and seen what the current timeframe is? I don't want to bother him and reduce his time making more subwoofers (including mine).
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post #12789 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post

I dont think dual empires will have the accuracy like a single Ultra will there very natural and accurate so there not only good for movies but excellent for music. The build Quality and high end finish options are more like high end furniture finishes even the textured black is a sprayed on finish not a vinyl not sure about the empire. The Driver on the Ultra is built like a tank a long with the box itself weighs I beleive over 150 pounds, they even have a option for either a cloth or metal grill . Customer service is second to none 24 hours a day 7 days a week from my first hand experience with SVS i've got a 3 or 4 hour return email sunday night when sent sunday afternoon. The ultra is proven , reviewed and has been out for years and im sure will be out for years to come. The empire from reading on this thread seems to be a great sub also but I personaly dont think its been out long enough yet or even reveiwed to even be able to compare to The Ultra yet. Again I've never owned a Epic but I do own A SVS PB12 plus and a PB13 Ultra and couldnt be happier .

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Dont mean to offend you and its just my op but just look at the two drivers and you tell me ? Its actualy not even a fair comparison The Ultra is in a different league at almost twice the price but the op is considering two Epics Empires and im sure thats the only reason he's even comparing the two being the SVSpb13 ultra and the Epic Empire .

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I Strongly disagree with you, the "looks" of a driver does tell alot along with the Weight. The PB13 Driver I beleive weighs between 60 and 70 pounds and I dont think your rubber ducky comes even close Whats most important though here is that you and many others are very happy with there Epic Empires and thats what its all about. If your happy then thats what counts, Enjoy BTW just so you know the PB13 IS A 13.5 driver with 3 ports and tunable all the way down to a sealed mode

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I agree to disagree with you it should be a determining factor but one of many lets just say it would make a good common denominator

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I wouldnt call it nonsense lol thats for sure and the pc12 ultra is a totaly different sub from The PB13 from its driver to its boxed enclosure. There is no comparison. But yes at its price point the Empire may be a option but myself I'd rather have one excellent sub vs two thats good at its price point . Im not sure about you but if I saw a driver that looked cheaply made vs one that had a massive magnet built like a tank that would be for sure something to consider and I wouldnt call it nonsense

A few points:

1. It is considered bad forum etiquette to dump on a product in it's "Official" thread. The "Official" thread is reserved for users, owners and prospective owners. It's more of a "support" type of thread. For non-owners, non-users and a non-prospective buyers to come in and recommend their own "favorite" brand, while belittling the "subject" of the "official" thread, is usually frowned upon. If you want to post unsolicited recommendations for SVS, it is somewhat less obnoxious to do so in a thread asking general questions in the "open" forum.

2. SVS owners have a long-standing reputation as "fanboi's" who offer their unsolicited opinions to others without regard to context. You seem to be following in that tradition quite well.

3. The *appearance* of a driver has absolutely ZERO impact on it's performance. Now, if you want to discuss a driver's TS parameters, (Qts, Vas, Xmax, BL, etc.), then you might have some credibility. But your continued insistence that a driver's appearance should be considered as a significant factor in a purchasing decision makes you look well... uninformed. (In case you don't know what Theile-Small parameters are, here is a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiele/Small

4. I am not an Epik owner or user, but I am a prospective buyer, as I am considering the purchase of a pair of Empires to compare to my Submersives. That is why I occasionally check this thread. When I saw your continued posting about SVS and driver "appearance", I just felt I had to respond.

Carry on with the Epik "on-topic" discussions.

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."


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post #12790 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 04:03 PM
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[quote=mdm1699;18476011]It is nonsense. Having a beautiful driver does not guarantee that you will have a design that gets the most out of it.
Never said it was guarantee but its a very good indication
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitbull24 View Post

I believe we can all agree to disagree on several aspects or factors of subs. What seems to be lost here is how each product will perform in different environments or HT's. We all have personal preferences on ported/sealed, design, looks, sub quality/weight, etc., but you don't know how they will perform for YOU until you get them home! We all have gone through the same stress & frustration(or fun) of making this decision. It's hard to part with upwards of $2000 or more without complete confidence in the product. Bluvette, you have a little advantage in being able to pick up and/or return your subs to Epik at no cost(other than gas). I live near Epik and that was a factor I considered as well; along with supporting a local company. SVS has a very good reputation, and a solid product. I think you can read Epik has built quite the following as well. Gather as much info as you can from those offering it up, filter what you need to. All subs can be eq'd a bit to help in different rooms, so make this a fun experience. For what it's worth, I've had dual Empires for 2 months, and am very happy. They shake my whole house when I want them to. I am not even close to the same league as some you will here from as I am new to the HT game, but it is fun learning. Remember, you have no one to blame but yourself for the decision you make no matter what somebody tells you!

Well said x2 !!!

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post #12791 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

A few points:

1. It is considered bad forum etiquette to dump on a product in it's "Official" thread. The "Official" thread is reserved for users, owners and prospective owners. It's more of a "support" type of thread. For non-owners, non-users and a non-prospective buyers to come in and recommend their own "favorite" brand, while belittling the "subject" of the "official" thread, is usually frowned upon. If you want to post unsolicited recommendations for SVS, it is somewhat less obnoxious to do so in a thread asking general questions in the "open" forum.

2. SVS owners have a long-standing reputation as "fanboi's" who offer their unsolicited opinions to others without regard to context. You seem to be following in that tradition quite well.

3. The *appearance* of a driver has absolutely ZERO impact on it's performance. Now, if you want to discuss a driver's TS parameters, (Qts, Vas, Xmax, BL, etc.), then you might have some credibility. But your continued insistence that a driver's appearance should be considered as a significant factor in a purchasing decision makes you look well... uninformed. (In case you don't know what Theile-Small parameters are, here is a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiele/Small

4. I am not an Epik owner or user, but I am a prospective buyer, as I am considering the purchase of a pair of Empires to compare to my Submersives. That is why I occasionally check this thread. When I saw your continued posting about SVS and driver "appearance", I just felt I had to respond.

Carry on with the Epik "on-topic" discussions.

Craig

A few points for you ! 1) And who may I ask are you ? The GREAT HOLYNESS OF THE EPIC THREAD ?2) For your information kind sir the OP ASKED oppinions and brought up SVS AND ASKED SO before you get anything in a bunch maybe.3) YOU should learn a little "forum etiquette" before insulting me 4) I suppose you are the professional here is so you should practice what you preach.5) Appearence and weight of a driver does and can have a indication of its performance. 6)You have your op and I have mine .7) It appears your the fan boy here for Epic so I wouldnt throw rocks when you live in a glass house 8) I wasnt knocking Epic I was stating my Oppinion IN A COMPARISON and im not going lie I dont care what or were this thread it is.9) Someone asked thats why I did and if you dont like it well im very sorry but I call it like I see it . 10) Have a great night

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post #12792 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 04:22 PM
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post #12793 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Carry on with the Epik "on-topic" discussions.

Craig

For the longest time I couldn't get myself to use the ignore functionality on AVS. I figured that I would miss out on "some" good posts. Time has proven that the ignore functionality is my friend.

YMMV...

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post #12794 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 04:27 PM
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For the longest time I couldn't get myself to use the ignore functionality on AVS. I figured that I would miss out on "some" good posts. Time has proven that the ignore functionality is my friend.

YMMV...

doug.

x2 and i've just added two more

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post #12795 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 04:53 PM
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Correct spelling Epik.
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post #12796 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 04:56 PM
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Correct spelling Epik.

Thank you so much .

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post #12797 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 05:15 PM
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I hope I did not start anything here. I did ask opinions about the Epik vs the SVS. I did want opinions from both sides. The Factor made many great points that I agree with. I still have no solid facts that have swayed me to the SVS, Epik is very much in the running. Other good points have also come up by Pitbull24. Again I am looking for a sub or subs that are great musically and shake the shat out of the house while watching movies. I do not want to buy something and then regret it.

John
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post #12798 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluvette View Post

I hope I did not start anything here. I did ask opinions about the Epik vs the SVS. I did want opinions from both sides. The Factor made many great points that I agree with. I still have no solid facts that have swayed me to the SVS, Epik is very much in the running. Other good points have also come up by Pitbull24. Again I am looking for a sub or subs that are great musically and shake the shat out of the house while watching movies. I do not want to buy something and then regret it.

John

No worries John it can be expected folks will take it the wrong way and I was trying to be gentle with them lol shoot me a pm and I'll really let you know my oppinion without candy coating it. Thanks for the concern though and dont worry about them they'll get over it

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post #12799 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 05:49 PM
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No worries John it can be expected folks will take it the wrong way and I was trying to be gentle with them lol shoot me a pm and I'll really let you know my oppinion without candy coating it. Thanks for the concern though and dont worry about them they'll get over it

Offering to do it in a PM was the way you should have done it right from the start.

Craig

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post #12800 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluvette View Post

I hope I did not start anything here. I did ask opinions about the Epik vs the SVS. I did want opinions from both sides. The Factor made many great points that I agree with. I still have no solid facts that have swayed me to the SVS, Epik is very much in the running. Other good points have also come up by Pitbull24. Again I am looking for a sub or subs that are great musically and shake the shat out of the house while watching movies. I do not want to buy something and then regret it.

John

Thanks again for the kind words and if I can be of any more help before or after your decision just let me know

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post #12801 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 06:22 PM
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Bluvette, and everyone forgive me if I have not read far enough back, but there appears to be a cost difference in the options you're considering. I am a novice, but depending on the size of your room & if it's in an open floor plan, you will not be disappointed for the money spent on Empires. If you have a large area to fill you may want to pm dondino, who is unfortunately selling his dual empires. Not due to disappointment, but he would like more in his large room.
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post #12802 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluvette View Post

I hope I did not start anything here. I did ask opinions about the Epik vs the SVS. I did want opinions from both sides. The Factor made many great points that I agree with. I still have no solid facts that have swayed me to the SVS, Epik is very much in the running. Other good points have also come up by Pitbull24. Again I am looking for a sub or subs that are great musically and shake the shat out of the house while watching movies. I do not want to buy something and then regret it.

John

Unfortunately facts (or even informed opinions) are hard to come by on the subwoofer forum these days. More often than not it boils down to the blind opinions of people who have only ever owned subwoofers from one manufacturer and swear by them without having ever experienced other capable subs.
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post #12803 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Pitbull24 View Post

Bluvette, and everyone forgive me if I have not read far enough back, but there appears to be a cost difference in the options you're considering. I am a novice, but depending on the size of your room & if it's in an open floor plan, you will not be disappointed for the money spent on Empires. If you have a large area to fill you may want to pm dondino, who is unfortunately selling his dual empires. Not due to disappointment, but he would like more in his large room.

Yes, I spoke to dondino. Of course there is a money limit. I would buy 2 of either brand and thats my limit. The Empire is the better value of course. My room is 15X27 with 8 ft ceiling but it does open up into another room. The price is not the factor it's the quality.

Thanks
John
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post #12804 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 07:53 PM
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ive had my empire for a month now. in the same place along the wall in the middle of the room . it keeps getting better. my wife wont let me turn it up. she cant take it. i come home at lunch everyday and blast it .
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post #12805 of 20386 Old 04-13-2010, 08:50 PM
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Yes, I spoke to dondino. Of course there is a money limit. I would buy 2 of either brand and thats my limit. The Empire is the better value of course. My room is 15X27 with 8 ft ceiling but it does open up into another room. The price is not the factor it's the quality.

Thanks
John

So you are considering dual Ultras? That is a pretty large area. Maybe you should give each manufacturer a call or drop an email to them both, and get their opinions on a room of your size and layout. I can't remember if you already did this.
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So you are considering dual Ultras? That is a pretty large area. Maybe you should give each manufacturer a call or drop an email to them both, and get their opinions on a room of your size and layout. I can't remember if you already did this.

Yes, 2 Ultras. Still need to do a bit more research.

Thanks John
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post #12807 of 20386 Old 04-14-2010, 06:24 AM
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ive had my empire for a month now. in the same place along the wall in the middle of the room . it keeps getting better. my wife wont let me turn it up. she cant take it. i come home at lunch everyday and blast it .

I wish I can go home for lunch. My wife has no issue with me turning it up. She just doesn't want to wake up the baby. When she goes shopping or out with friends, I crank the S*%t out of it.
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post #12808 of 20386 Old 04-14-2010, 06:52 AM
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A few points for you ! 1) And who may I ask are you ? The GREAT HOLYNESS OF THE EPIC THREAD ?2) For your information kind sir the OP ASKED oppinions and brought up SVS AND ASKED SO before you get anything in a bunch maybe.3) YOU should learn a little "forum etiquette" before insulting me 4) I suppose you are the professional here is so you should practice what you preach.5) Appearence and weight of a driver does and can have a indication of its performance. 6)You have your op and I have mine .7) It appears your the fan boy here for Epic so I wouldnt throw rocks when you live in a glass house 8) I wasnt knocking Epic I was stating my Oppinion IN A COMPARISON and im not going lie I dont care what or were this thread it is.9) Someone asked thats why I did and if you dont like it well im very sorry but I call it like I see it . 10) Have a great night

Craig John is one of the most consistently unbiased opinions you'll find on this forum. His post was largely with respect to "general" forum etiquette. Whether or not you choose to take his advice is up to you, but I promise you his opinions are pretty spot on more than 90% of the time. He wasn't insulting you at all, and I still fail to see where he did, but if you still think so perhaps you should re-read his post. From an outsider's perspective I can guarantee he was only trying to be helpful. Maybe in a somewhat condescending tone, but that's just how people talk on the internet, especially those with more forum seniority than yourself. It's not really rude to do so coming from a guy with Craig John's history here.

With regard to driver appearance, weight, or anything else aesthetic, can you please post some links (with factual information; tests and results would be helpful too) as opposed to just blindly stating "just because"? The burden of proof is on you in this case, not us. We're all telling you that T/S parameters are what matters. Just because manufacturers post specs as to a driver's weight and magnet structure does not mean it is an extremely important specification. Kind of reminds me of contrast ratio, lumens for a projector, or other specs TV manufacturers give. Without a frame of reference or testing specification, these are really unimportant. They've made you believe they are though by forcing these "stats" down your throat. How else are you supposed to compare anyway? Listen to those around you, you might actually learn something. Challenge your conventional wisdom and forget what you might have learned through car audio. I assume that's where you learned that magnet structure/weight was the end all be all, but if not I apologize in advance.

Cheers,
Chad
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post #12809 of 20386 Old 04-14-2010, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Bluvette View Post

Yes, 2 Ultras. Still need to do a bit more research.

Thanks John

How big would you say the other adjoining room is and how open is open, through a corridor or an open floor plan type house? I miscalculated a bit last night and thought the room was bigger than it is. Your main room is only a little more than 3240 cu. ft. From what I understand in sub terms, it is a large room but not immense.

I'm sure a pair of either the Empires or the Ultras will definitely fill your main room up. The big variable seems to be that additional room you mention. If it is a room of comparable size, I might be inclined to go with the dual Ultras if you have the room. Probably still best to check with both Epik and SVS to get their opinions.

Good luck!
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post #12810 of 20386 Old 04-14-2010, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by SharpOne View Post

How big would you say the other adjoining room is and how open is open, through a corridor or an open floor plan type house? I miscalculated a bit last night and thought the room was bigger than it is. Your main room is only a little more than 3240 cu. ft. From what I understand in sub terms, it is a large room but not immense.

I'm sure a pair of either the Empires or the Ultras will definitely fill your main room up. The big variable seems to be that additional room you mention. If it is a room of comparable size, I might be inclined to go with the dual Ultras if you have the room. Probably still best to check with both Epik and SVS to get their opinions.

Good luck!

The other adjoining room is the kitchen that overlooks the family room. The kitchen is four steps up above the family room. I feel two of either sub would be enough. Yes your calculations of 3240 are pretty close.

John
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