Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 602 - AVS Forum
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post #18031 of 20458 Old 03-11-2012, 04:29 PM
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After a long bout of procrastination, I have decided to move on from my Velodyne Optimum 12. I just placed an order for dual Empires. I can't wait to receive them! I thought about dual HSU VTF-15H's. I decided to save the extra $400+ and go with the Empires. Of course the wife thinks I am crazy.

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post #18032 of 20458 Old 03-11-2012, 05:55 PM
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I would love to have dueal Empires, i have one and it awsome, youll love duels.

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post #18033 of 20458 Old 03-11-2012, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decepticon07 View Post

After a long bout of procrastination, I have decided to move on from my Velodyne Optimum 12. I just placed an order for dual Empires. I can't wait to receive them! I thought about dual HSU VTF-15H's. I decided to save the extra $400+ and go with the Empires. Of course the wife thinks I am crazy.

Great move congrats, you will love them.
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post #18034 of 20458 Old 03-13-2012, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Hksvr4 View Post

The replacement amp on my Dragon stopped working. I tested the outlet and it was fine. I tried another outlet and that didn't help. Finally, I decided to use the power cable from my printer. That worked and everything is back to normal.

This is the original power cable and it went bad then?




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post #18035 of 20458 Old 03-13-2012, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Gov View Post

This is the original power cable and it went bad then?

Yes sir.
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post #18036 of 20458 Old 03-13-2012, 02:12 PM
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Just an update on my issue, spoke with Chad today and he agrees that the RCA connector on my sub must be bad, so he is sending me a whole new amp instead of having me troubleshoot the connector. He had me check the other input, and it doesn't hum. I will report back when I get the new amp.

Justin
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post #18037 of 20458 Old 03-14-2012, 05:20 AM
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Hey guys,

Anyone know of someone looking to offload a Conquest or two (or four) in the DC area?

I was considering the Quad Empire, but the side firing design will limit by future expansion plans...
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post #18038 of 20458 Old 03-14-2012, 01:05 PM
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I received the dual empires today. I ordered Sunday and they arrived today. That service made me extremely happy. I haven’t messed with any settings other than just setting the phase to 0 and crossover to 120. The volume is at half on both subwoofers just so I could test them out before calibrating. Once again I am coming from a Velodyne Optimum 12. There is obviously no comparison. These blow it out of the water. I read a thread at work that had me a little worried from a user on here that the Velodyne Optimum 12 sounded better than his friends Empires. Now that I have these hooked up it makes me chuckle pretty hard. Needless to say I am thoroughly impressed and happy with the sound, build quality, and packaging. I am writing this while the wife checks out her Adele and Justin Timberlake blu-rays. When the boxes arrived she was going crazy but now I think even she is in love. After hearing these I honestly would love to hear a Captivator or something that has measured better than these. A friend and I already have a bet on how long it will take for the cops show up

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post #18039 of 20458 Old 03-14-2012, 02:38 PM
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I run a single empire with a 10" B&W sub and it is simply amazing. The B&W was great anyway for what it was meant for, and the Empire fits amazingly well with the little guy. All in all, I have had my Empire since last July, and though needing an amp exchange, which was very speedily done, the sub is just freaking sick. Still loving it, and the wife is still complaining about it
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post #18040 of 20458 Old 03-14-2012, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decepticon07 View Post

I received the dual empires today. I ordered Sunday and they arrived today. That service made me extremely happy. I haven't messed with any settings other than just setting the phase to 0 and crossover to 120. The volume is at half on both subwoofers just so I could test them out before calibrating. Once again I am coming from a Velodyne Optimum 12. There is obviously no comparison. These blow it out of the water. I read a thread at work that had me a little worried from a user on here that the Velodyne Optimum 12 sounded better than his friends Empires. Now that I have these hooked up it makes me chuckle pretty hard. Needless to say I am thoroughly impressed and happy with the sound, build quality, and packaging. I am writing this while the wife checks out her Adele and Justin Timberlake blu-rays. When the boxes arrived she was going crazy but now I think even she is in love. After hearing these I honestly would love to hear a Captivator or something that has measured better than these. A friend and I already have a bet on how long it will take for the cops show up

I can only imagine what Immortals is gonna be like with those two!? I remember my gf running into my theater room saying " wtf is going on, the house is shaking" and I only have 1. Congrats...
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post #18041 of 20458 Old 03-14-2012, 07:04 PM
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The water scene in Immortals was insanity. My wife just sat there shaking her head.

Bears... Beets... Battlestar Galactica.
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post #18042 of 20458 Old 03-15-2012, 03:54 AM
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I have a Definitive Technology Supercube Reference. Having owned it for a few years now I can tell you that it gets NO WHERE NEAR the advertized 11Hz it claims to reach. (let's not make this a debate on if the human ear can actually hear 11Hz)

Anyone know how 1 Empire would stack up against it? I could get dual Empires for the price I paid for the DefTech (which is pretty depressing). I assume dual empires would blow the Supercube Reference out of the water, but I'll like to hear opinions on if 1 one would be able to hang.

I'd be willing to go with the Empires, but I'd love to get my hands on a few of the Conquest because I want to feel 16Hz vs watch my current sub struggle. Do the Empires provide anything usable sub-20Hz?

BTW, does anyone have their subs built into their actual walls or hidden out of sight? I know the side firing design of the Empire would not permit an in-wall type of install, but seems like the Conquest could possibly be a candidate. Obviously one would have to purchase their equipment and have their theater built around their system because of the large foot print. Might be a longshot, but it's not totally impractible...

I'm on page 14 of 602 so I might find the answer to my question if I study this thread for a freakin month...
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post #18043 of 20458 Old 03-15-2012, 05:47 AM
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Empire test results are here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1351494
seems to be able to produce ~98 db at 16 hz, you might do better in room.
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post #18044 of 20458 Old 03-15-2012, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpc716 View Post

Empire test results are here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1351494
seems to be able to produce ~98 db at 16 hz, you might do better in room.

Thanks dpc...

That thread definitely shed some light on my question.

The CEA2012 Output Comparison and Averages Excel Chart was exactly the kind of picture that needed to be painted for me. If only there was a massive chart like that for all (or most) of the available subs out there... I honestly don't think the Empire will dig deep enough to give me what I am looking for. Then again, without a direct comparison to the Supercube Reference I am currently running (or results from a similar test as a comparison tool) I guess I can't say for sure.

It's not my intent to get into a debate on #'s vs. real wrold listening, but numbers do tell a good portion of the story.
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post #18045 of 20458 Old 03-15-2012, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Thanks dpc...

That thread definitely shed some light on my question.

The CEA2012 Output Comparison and Averages Excel Chart was exactly the kind of picture that needed to be painted for me. If only there was a massive chart like that for all (or most) of the available subs out there... I honestly don't think the Empire will dig deep enough to give me what I am looking for. Then again, without a direct comparison to the Supercube Reference I am currently running (or results from a similar test as a comparison tool) I guess I can't say for sure.

It's not my intent to get into a debate on #'s vs. real world listening, but numbers do tell a good portion of the story.

Couple things. Keep in mind that these CEA measurements are done outdoors at groundplane level. So you are going to get at least 6db of room gain (potentially more or less depending on your room, and placement). If you add a second Empire, you would be looking at another 3db and portentially 6db if you stack them. That is huge.

Where the Empire seems to really shine is in the mid bass frequency ranges where the vast majority of bass is. I would tend to think a couple of Empire's would have considerably more output than your Deftech sub in the midbass range as well.
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post #18046 of 20458 Old 03-15-2012, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Thanks dpc...

That thread definitely shed some light on my question.

The CEA2012 Output Comparison and Averages Excel Chart was exactly the kind of picture that needed to be painted for me. If only there was a massive chart like that for all (or most) of the available subs out there... I honestly don't think the Empire will dig deep enough to give me what I am looking for. Then again, without a direct comparison to the Supercube Reference I am currently running (or results from a similar test as a comparison tool) I guess I can't say for sure.

It's not my intent to get into a debate on #'s vs. real wrold listening, but numbers do tell a good portion of the story.

Did you see this from the info in that thread? Not all, but some good ones to compare to...http://www.data-bass.com/systems

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #18047 of 20458 Old 03-15-2012, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Did you see this from the info in that thread? Not all, but some good ones to compare to...http://www.data-bass.com/systems

Do we add 6db for room gain to those figures?
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post #18048 of 20458 Old 03-15-2012, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ratm View Post

Do we add 6db for room gain to those figures?

Which figures? Check out the "know-how" tab.

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #18049 of 20458 Old 03-16-2012, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Did you see this from the info in that thread? Not all, but some good ones to compare to...http://www.data-bass.com/systems

Thanks for the chart.

Ugh... See, this is ONE bad thing about #'s that really piss me off... Looking at the measurments the Empire provides similar results as the Velo DD18+ at 16Hz then catches back up at 50Hz to accomodate that midbass punch.

I don't mean to sound like I am focusing on Epik's strengths and Velo's weaknesses, so please do not take my comments out of context. It's just facinating (impressive) to me that a $800 sub can throw out similar performance in any part of the bandwidth that a $5K sub can.

Quote:


Where the Empire seems to really shine is in the mid bass frequency ranges where the vast majority of bass is. I would tend to think a couple of Empire's would have considerably more output than your Deftech sub in the midbass range as well.

Now, with the logic of +3db pretty much doubling the output, according the the attached chart it appears as though a Rythmik Audio FV15P should have the same output as a Quad set of Empires up to about 40Hz (all of the FUN frequencies). Or is my logic flawed?

I'm still really gunning to find an Epik Conquest, but the deeper I dig the more products I find that look like they will suit MY listening style...
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post #18050 of 20458 Old 03-16-2012, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Thanks for the chart.

Ugh... See, this is ONE bad thing about #'s that really piss me off... Looking at the measurments the Empire provides similar results as the Velo DD18+ at 16Hz then catches back up at 50Hz to accomodate that midbass punch.

I don't mean to sound like I am focusing on Epik's strengths and Velo's weaknesses, so please do not take my comments out of context. It's just facinating (impressive) to me that a $800 sub can throw out similar performance in any part of the bandwidth that a $5K sub can.



Now, with the logic of +3db pretty much doubling the output, according the the attached chart it appears as though a Rythmik Audio FV15P should have the same output as a Quad set of Empires up to about 40Hz (all of the FUN frequencies). Or is my logic flawed?

I'm still really gunning to find an Epik Conquest, but the deeper I dig the more products I find that look like they will suit MY listening style...

I don't care about Velodyne particularly, even tho they are a customer of ours (and I could probably arrange a discount but I've not tried). Velodynes have prettier cabinetry I didn't need and sell through b&m stores, which I also didn't particularly need. Velodyne I'm sure has much higher overhead costs in general.

3db isn't doubling the output, it takes double the watts from the amp to get an additional 3db spl (which is just the next audible step up to your ears essentially). I seriously doubt one Rhythmik keeps up with one Empire...but I haven't listened to one.

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #18051 of 20458 Old 03-16-2012, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinHEMI05 View Post

Just an update on my issue, spoke with Chad today and he agrees that the RCA connector on my sub must be bad, so he is sending me a whole new amp instead of having me troubleshoot the connector. He had me check the other input, and it doesn't hum. I will report back when I get the new amp.

Justin

Final follow up on this issue. New amp received and installed today, works perfect!

Thanks for everyone's help.

Special thanks to Chad at Epik for rushing me a new amp and being easy to deal with!

Justin
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post #18052 of 20458 Old 03-16-2012, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

I seriously doubt one Rhythmik keeps up with one Empire...but I haven't listened to one.

are you talking one FV15 vs one Empire?
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post #18053 of 20458 Old 03-16-2012, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm View Post

are you talking one FV15 vs one Empire?

Yes, one to one like my post says, whereas the post I was responding to was talking four Empires to one Rythmik FV15P! I'm a fan of what I own, tho I'd be glad to do an a/b test if someone would ship me a Rythmik...

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #18054 of 20458 Old 03-16-2012, 10:16 PM
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I went to turn on my Epik Phoenix today and the light wouldn't come on. I tried a different cord and a different outlet, no luck. Anyone know what it is? Did the amp die on me? Anyone know if Epik will replace these? I got it about 3 years ago.
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Originally Posted by acpmadness View Post

I went to turn on my Epik Phoenix today and the light wouldn't come on. I tried a different cord and a different outlet, no luck. Anyone know what it is? Did the amp die on me? Anyone know if Epik will replace these? I got it about 3 years ago.

Yup. Dead amp. Nothing new.
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post #18056 of 20458 Old 03-17-2012, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

3db isn't doubling the output, it takes double the watts from the amp to get an additional 3db spl (which is just the next audible step up to your ears essentially). I seriously doubt one Rhythmik keeps up with one Empire...but I haven't listened to one.

I'm looking for low-end output in particular.

These guys seem to think the Rythmik performs well on the lower end... That's not even the HP version just the straight FV15.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1313176
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post #18057 of 20458 Old 03-17-2012, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

I'm looking for low-end output in particular.

These guys seem to think the Rythmik performs well on the lower end... That's not even the HP version just the straight FV15.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1313176

So you think because of a 6db measurement that it will take a few Empires to equal a single Rythmik? You need to go listen to some quality subs and not obsess about the measurements, and learn some more about how the measurements are made and what they mean, too IMHO. One Empire is a lot of sub in any case...keep in mind it's got two powered 15" drivers, too.

Each sub has a fan base, usually because that's what we own...

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #18058 of 20458 Old 03-17-2012, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acpmadness View Post

I went to turn on my Epik Phoenix today and the light wouldn't come on. I tried a different cord and a different outlet, no luck. Anyone know what it is? Did the amp die on me? Anyone know if Epik will replace these? I got it about 3 years ago.

Chad replaced the amp on my dragon under warranty. It was 3 years old.
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post #18059 of 20458 Old 03-18-2012, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

I'm looking for low-end output in particular.

These guys seem to think the Rythmik performs well on the lower end... That's not even the HP version just the straight FV15.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1313176

At the end of the day, both are great subs. It really doesn't matter which one you get, you will be happy, for a time. You will be wanting more soon anyway

There are a lot of happy owners of both subs. Take a pick, and don't look back.
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post #18060 of 20458 Old 03-18-2012, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

So you think because of a 6db measurement that it will take a few Empires to equal a single Rythmik? You need to go listen to some quality subs and not obsess about the measurements, and learn some more about how the measurements are made and what they mean, too IMHO. One Empire is a lot of sub in any case...keep in mind it's got two powered 15" drivers, too.

Each sub has a fan base, usually because that's what we own...

No, I'm just asking for opinions... Thanks for yours. Let's say, with all else being equal, a sub with 6db higher output at a certain frequency "should be" signifigantly louder than the other... Can we agree on that? I want low end extension and based on these objective measurements, the FV15HP should perform well where "I" want it to perform.

In all truth I really have my sights on the Epik Conquest, but I'm about 4 years late to that party...

Quote:
Originally Posted by McStyvie View Post

At the end of the day, both are great subs. It really doesn't matter which one you get, you will be happy, for a time. You will be wanting more soon anyway

There are a lot of happy owners of both subs. Take a pick, and don't look back.

I would take your advice into serious consideration if my circumstances were different. I currently own a DefTech Supercube Reference and don't want to take a down grade. I was a fan at first simply because I paid $1,600 for it and wanted to think I made a good choice. I'm not happy with it and I'm looking to replace it with something that digs deeper.

I'm not an expert in the AV realm... I don't have any measurement tools at my disposal. The best case scenario for me is hearing an opinion from someone that has heard my particular sub (Supercube Reference) vs. the Epik Conquest/Empire or Rythmik FV15HP in a similar listening environment because I haven't found objective measurements on the Supercube Reference yet...
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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