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Official Epik Subwoofer Thread

2M views 21K replies 1K participants last post by  elmalloc 
#1 ·
Well guys....as the saying goes:

".... and so it begins! "



As some of you may already know, Ascendant Audio has been very quiet for many many months, and it's owner, Chad Kuypers, has been missing in action for a VERY long time. Some of you guys from the DIY world will remember Ascendant Audio from their driver offerings, such as the famous Avalanche XBL^2 drivers, as well as the the Havoc and a few others.


Well, the cat is out!!! (Sorry Chad....we the people can't keep our mouths shut when we discover a good thing...
) so THIS is why you have been missing in action, huh?


Epik Subwoofers is about to launch in the next few days apparently, and seems like they will have several offerings to start, which range from 4 different 15" ported alignment, to a flagship large 18" ported box. I'm sure there will be tons of info in the next few days, specially Pictures, price, measurement numbers, performance numbers, etc.


looks like the URL is up too, but nothing up yet: http://www.epiksubwoofers.com


Given the performance and price of Chad's past offerings, such as the avalanche, can only mean one thing: a great commercial subwoofer lineup at amazing prices.


Anyways, thought you guys might find this bit of news VERY interesting indeed. I hope Chad, Scott, and some of the other guys decide to chime in and show us more info.


It's a great time to be an A/V enthusiast indeed!!!
 
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#13,841 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Tebo /forum/post/18970877


Got my Empire yesterday and so far I'm pretty thrilled. Had to "work from home" in the afternoon so I'd be there when the freight company arrived with the 120lb beast. Haven't had a chance to do a "sub crawl" yet, so I might have to try doing that tonight. Not really sure what to play when I do the crawl. Also I'm sure lugging that thing up on the sofa will be back breaking fun. Had enough fun dragging it downstairs and into my living room. For now it's sitting near the front wall behind the mains where the old sub was, drivers facing left and right.


I ran Audyssey on my 2309, with the gain set at high noon, and it came back with something like -12db. That seemed way too quiet for my taste, so I manually cranked it up quite a bit. Tinkered around and decided that in order to get that rumbling bass I want I also needed to turn the gain up to 2:00 or so. Then it roared. Put in Avatar, and the opening scene drum beat rattled everything on the walls, cabinets, me, dogs, etc. Definitely had that earthquake sound/feel that I've been reading about.


I'm really impressed so far to say the least, though that doesn't mean much coming from me since this is my first big sub, and I don't have much to compare to. (Old one was a dinky 8" Athena from my apartment living days) When my wife came home I gave her the Avatar demo and she seemed impressed, or at least pretended to be for my own sanity. "You're scaring the dogs."


Watched Alice in Wonderland last night and it really did make a huge difference overall. It totally filled in the bass that was missing before from the fronts (raised the crossover from 60 to 80 also to put more load on the sub and less on the fronts), and obviously the LFE was amazing.


I have a lot more experementing to do since I'm a newbie to the world of big hulking subs. Need to try rotating it so the drivers face the front and back of the room and try switching the phase. Probably should get an SPL meter too from what I read.


So far it seems like leaving the gain at 12:00 is perfect for normal viewing of TV, and I'll need to crank it up to 1:00 or 2:00 for that extra grumble during movies. I'm guessing most of you like the sub to be running quite a bit hotter than normal for movies? It's overkill for TV for me though, really don't need to be shaken to death when watching HGTV or the news.


Well that was a bit of a ramble, but needless to say I'm excited about my new sub.

You need to turn the gain down to around 9 or 10 and rerun Audyssey. -12 is too high and 1 or 2 is really too high and remember not to change the gain once Audyssey has run and increase or decrease the gain only at the receiver. But no more than + or - 3 db.


Bill
 
#13,842 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Tebo /forum/post/18970877


Got my Empire yesterday and so far I'm pretty thrilled. Had to "work from home" in the afternoon so I'd be there when the freight company arrived with the 120lb beast. Haven't had a chance to do a "sub crawl" yet, so I might have to try doing that tonight. Not really sure what to play when I do the crawl. Also I'm sure lugging that thing up on the sofa will be back breaking fun. Had enough fun dragging it downstairs and into my living room. For now it's sitting near the front wall behind the mains where the old sub was, drivers facing left and right.


I ran Audyssey on my 2309, with the gain set at high noon, and it came back with something like -12db. That seemed way too quiet for my taste, so I manually cranked it up quite a bit. Tinkered around and decided that in order to get that rumbling bass I want I also needed to turn the gain up to 2:00 or so. Then it roared. Put in Avatar, and the opening scene drum beat rattled everything on the walls, cabinets, me, dogs, etc. Definitely had that earthquake sound/feel that I've been reading about.


I'm really impressed so far to say the least, though that doesn't mean much coming from me since this is my first big sub, and I don't have much to compare to. (Old one was a dinky 8" Athena from my apartment living days) When my wife came home I gave her the Avatar demo and she seemed impressed, or at least pretended to be for my own sanity. "You're scaring the dogs."


Watched Alice in Wonderland last night and it really did make a huge difference overall. It totally filled in the bass that was missing before from the fronts (raised the crossover from 60 to 80 also to put more load on the sub and less on the fronts), and obviously the LFE was amazing.


I have a lot more experementing to do since I'm a newbie to the world of big hulking subs. Need to try rotating it so the drivers face the front and back of the room and try switching the phase. Probably should get an SPL meter too from what I read.


So far it seems like leaving the gain at 12:00 is perfect for normal viewing of TV, and I'll need to crank it up to 1:00 or 2:00 for that extra grumble during movies. I'm guessing most of you like the sub to be running quite a bit hotter than normal for movies? It's overkill for TV for me though, really don't need to be shaken to death when watching HGTV or the news.


Well that was a bit of a ramble, but needless to say I'm excited about my new sub.

Any relation to Tim? You need to turn the gain down and rerun audessey. -12 db is the max it will go and it basically means that it didn't get a good reading. Aim for about -3 or less and then you can manually turn that to 0db IN THE RECEIVER if you want to run it hot.
 
#13,843 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by stepyourgameup /forum/post/18971194


Any relation to Tim? You need to turn the gain down and rerun audessey. -12 db is the max it will go and it basically means that it didn't get a good reading. Aim for about -3 or less and then you can manually turn that to 0db IN THE RECEIVER if you want to run it hot.

To stay with the calibration of Audyssey he has to go no more then + or - 3 db from what Audyssey set for the sub in the reciever. 0 db is fine if Audyssey sets it at -3 db.


Bill
 
#13,844 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin_mahaney /forum/post/18967430


Well, I pulled the trigger on an Empire this weekend, and it should be here Thursday. I just wanted to thank everyone here for all of the information that helped me make my choice. I'm coming from an Outlaw LFM-1 Plus, and I can't wait to hear the Empire!

Heh, me too. Not sure when it is actually due to be delivered, but it is now at the local depot, so can't be much beyond tomorrow.


There are quite a few new owners posting in this thread - I wonder whether there has been a specific order deluge triggered by some event or another, or if there is always a steady stream of new owners and the thread "holiday" over the weekend has just prompted lurkers like me to finally speak up now that the thread is open again.


As I posted in another thread, since this is my first "serious" HT sub, I will undoubtedly be super-impressed and my observations will not compare usefuly to those that are on their third/fourth/hundredth sub.


Anyway, looking forward to movie night this weekend...


shinksma
 
#13,845 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 /forum/post/18971280


To stay with the calibration of Audyssey he has to go no more then + or - 3 db from what Audyssey set for the sub in the reciever. 0 db is fine if Audyssey sets it at -3 db.


Bill

In my case I have dual subs co-located so I get about a 6db gain. So when I run audessey and it comes back with a -6, then that means that the subs are actually level matched with the other speakers right? Then if I want them to run a bit hot, I would need to turn the subs to -3. Am I correct?
 
#13,846 ·
Good to hear your enjoying the Empire Jeremy. There are some better movies to experience what the Empire has to offer (since Avatar has a 25Hz and lower frequency filter). My current fav is the intro to Kung fu Panda where he narrating his "dream". Lots of startling bass there. Incredibles, War of The Worlds overpass destruction, etc.


This one's for _Noah_ . At first, I too was a bit underwhelmed with the Empire's performance compared to my Epik Tower. Yes, it did help the base response at my main LP but I expected more. I tried 5 different locations then REW'd and listened to them before find the right spot. And according to REW, the difference between the Tower and Empire at the same space was a +2 db's in the low end (12Hz vs 14Hz) and a much stabler upper bass response from the Empire. Also, I found that I prefer one of the Empire driver's facing into my main LP. I enjoyed music better with this speaker orientation- no difference with movies. It took some time getting used to the sound of the Empire, but I realised that it was:-

- clean sounding

- did not have the "bottom heavy" sound of the Tower (music)

- definetly better midbass response.


It took some time to appreciate, but all my listenings from late May till now has been solely with the Empire. But heck, you've got 2. So that should outperform a single Caslte. I'm really wondering (but not too hard) if I should still get another Tower upfront (to hear what duals sound like) then add another Empire to my left to mirror the one I already got. I just don't know yet. But I think that "magic" number for the Empire starts with two ;D .
 
#13,848 ·
Perhaps I wasn't clear, or more likely, I'm just a little confused. I had the "gain" (the knob on the sub) at the 12:00 noon spot (50%) to start, as that's what I thought I was supposed to do. This caused Audyssey to correct the level of the sub way down to -12, which made it very quiet. I manually changed the level in Audyssey back up to closer to the other speakers, which was within a few points of 0. This made the level sound about right. Then while watching a movie I decided to try turning the knob on the sub up a bit, to around the 1:00 or 2:00 spot (~60%, didn't see but I'm sure there are level numbers I could have used, but was looking at it from the top). This got it to the level I was looking for to test it out and let er rip a bit.


Perhaps if someone has a good link they can send me to I could read about how to properly set this thing up. I realize that what I'm doing now isn't "proper," I just wanted to hear it bark a bit in the limited time I had to play with it last night.


No relation to our 3rd string QB...
 
#13,849 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by stepyourgameup /forum/post/18971315


In my case I have dual subs co-located so I get about a 6db gain. So when I run audessey and it comes back with a -6, then that means that the subs are actually level matched with the other speakers right? Then if I want them to run a bit hot, I would need to turn the subs to -3. Am I correct?

Audyssey corrects the gain on the subs in the program. Never touch the gain, up the reciever sub db by no more than - or + 3 db. I have quads in two groups colocated with a +6 db and Pro leveled them. Check out http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...light=audyssey . Lots of good info from those who know including Chris of Audyssey.


Bill
 
#13,850 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Tebo /forum/post/18971403


Perhaps I wasn't clear, or more likely, I'm just a little confused. I had the "gain" (the knob on the sub) at the 12:00 noon spot (50%) to start, as that's what I thought I was supposed to do. This caused Audyssey to correct the level of the sub way down to -12, which made it very quiet. I manually changed the level in Audyssey back up to closer to the other speakers, which was within a few points of 0. This made the level sound about right. Then while watching a movie I decided to try turning the knob on the sub up a bit, to around the 1:00 or 2:00 spot (~60%, didn't see but I'm sure there are level numbers I could have used, but was looking at it from the top). This got it to the level I was looking for to test it out and let er rip a bit.


Perhaps if someone has a good link they can send me to I could read about how to properly set this thing up. I realize that what I'm doing now isn't "proper," I just wanted to hear it bark a bit in the limited time I had to play with it last night.


No relation to our 3rd string QB...
This is what you need to read about setting up your subwoofer using Audyssey.


Simple explaination. Adjust sub volume to around 10:00, run first pass of Audyssey, check calibration of sub in AVR. If the reading is at -6 to -12 lower sub volume on sub. Repeat until sub level is around -1 or -2 in the AVR. If readings after first pass are at +3 +12 then raise sub volume level on sub.
 
#13,851 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek /forum/post/18971427

This is what you need to read about setting up your subwoofer using Audyssey.


Simple explaination. Adjust sub volume to around 10:00, run first pass of Audyssey, check calibration of sub in AVR. If the reading is at -6 to -12 lower sub volume on sub. Repeat until sub level is around -1 or -2 in the AVR. If readings after first pass are at +3 +12 then raise sub volume level on sub.

OK, but then what happens when it's too quiet for my taste and I can't feel/hear any of that bass that I just dropped so much cash on? I can tell you that at 12:00 the AVR set it to -12. Pretty sure turning it down further would make it even quieter, unless I'm missing something. I'll do some more reading today (there goes work) and dink around with it tonight. Thanks for the link.


Also, are all you bassheads going to tell me that you actually run your subs at the correct level or within 3db as specified by Audyssey and not hotter?
 
#13,852 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Tebo /forum/post/18971478


OK, but then what happens when it's too quiet for my taste and I can't feel/hear any of that bass that I just dropped so much cash on? I can tell you that at 12:00 the AVR set it to -12. Pretty sure turning it down further would make it even quieter, unless I'm missing something. I'll do some more reading today (there goes work) and dink around with it tonight. Thanks for the link.


Also, are all you bassheads going to tell me that you actually run your subs at the correct level or within 3db as specified by Audyssey and not hotter?

Audyssey is measuring the level of the subwoofer and adjusting it to match the mains. Since your sub gain is at 12:00, Audyssey is reading a level that is too high compared to the mains, so it adjusts by cutting -12dB. The problem is, -12dB is the maximum it can cut, so you don't really know how much it wanted to cut.


Lower it to 10:00 on the sub, and Audyssey will not have to cut as much, you're shooting for it to only adjust -3dB or so.


Don't worry about it being quiet, you don't want to level match by ear. Let Audyssey do it's thing, and then go in and double check the levels from your listening position with an SPL meter. They should all be very close, but you can tweak the sub up a few dB.


Then listen to some reference material and see what you think.
 
#13,853 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Tebo /forum/post/18971478


OK, but then what happens when it's too quiet for my taste and I can't feel/hear any of that bass that I just dropped so much cash on? I can tell you that at 12:00 the AVR set it to -12. Pretty sure turning it down further would make it even quieter, unless I'm missing something. I'll do some more reading today (there goes work) and dink around with it tonight. Thanks for the link.


Also, are all you bassheads going to tell me that you actually run your subs at the correct level or within 3db as specified by Audyssey and not hotter?

Jeremy, Jeremy


When the setting is -12 in the AVR it is not sending a strong enough signal to the subwoofer. Trust me on this. Your will be pleastently surprised once you follow the recommendation. When properly calibrated it will not play bass all of the time. So if you listen to a song by Boston then there is not much bass recorded in their songs. If you then listen to some Techno/Dance that has alot of bass you will be doing this
Same goes for the movies.
 
#13,854 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek /forum/post/18971427

This is what you need to read about setting up your subwoofer using Audyssey.


Simple explaination. Adjust sub volume to around 10:00, run first pass of Audyssey, check calibration of sub in AVR. If the reading is at -6 to -12 lower sub volume on sub. Repeat until sub level is around -1 or -2 in the AVR. If readings after first pass are at +3 +12 then raise sub volume level on sub.

Not after Audyssey has set it in the program. If you move the gain on the sub then you have to redo Audyssey. You can up the gain/volume on the sub, but through the reciever sub db and not more than + or - 3 db. If you go beyond this, you defeat Audyssey settings for the sub. This was explained by Chris on the Audyssey forum.



Bill
 
#13,855 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TnTBigman /forum/post/18971335



This one's for _Noah_ . At first, I too was a bit underwhelmed with the Empire's performance compared to my Epik Tower. Yes, it did help the base response at my main LP but I expected more. I tried 5 different locations then REW'd and listened to them before find the right spot. And according to REW, the difference between the Tower and Empire at the same space was a +2 db's in the low end (12Hz vs 14Hz) and a much stabler upper bass response from the Empire. Also, I found that I prefer one of the Empire driver's facing into my main LP. I enjoyed music better with this speaker orientation- no difference with movies. It took some time getting used to the sound of the Empire, but I realised that it was:-

- clean sounding

- did not have the "bottom heavy" sound of the Tower (music)

- definetly better midbass response.


It took some time to appreciate, but all my listenings from late May till now has been solely with the Empire. But heck, you've got 2. So that should outperform a single Caslte. I'm really wondering (but not too hard) if I should still get another Tower upfront (to hear what duals sound like) then add another Empire to my left to mirror the one I already got. I just don't know yet. But I think that "magic" number for the Empire starts with two ;D .

TnTBigman,

It's actually your comparison of the dual Empires to your Tower that convinced me to replace my Castle.


After about 4 more hours of playing with the Empires I've found the sweet spots. I have them in the front corners of the room on an angle, one woofer facing the corner and one facing the seating area. I also did a hard reset on my receiver back to factory settings so I could start from scratch.


Now that I've got them where I like them the Empires are the solid performers I've come to expect from Epik. They edge out the Castle down low, say below about 30hz, but I was always pleased with the Castle's low end. If I were to make an non-scientific estimate, I'd say that 2 Empires= 1.5 Castles below 30hz. Where the Empires really shine is from around 30hz and up. They add forceful mid bass that was missing before. Gunshots, punches, kick drums, etc all are much more more tactile and clean. Crossing the Empires at 80hz makes them blend even more seamless with my mains which don't give great amounts of bass on their own. ( Polk RTi8 )
 
#13,856 ·
OK, I understand what you guys are saying, I'll give it a whirl tonight. We'll see what happens when I turn it down to 10:00 and recallibrate. Better get home before my wife does, as she doesn't get the joy in listening to annoying beeps over and over. It does take an awful long time and I'll probably lose patience after the first or second try. How many positions do you suppose I really have to test? Just used 3 last night. EDIT: Nevermind, I see that using just one is fine for sub calibration.


I read a few subwoofer setup articles, and the last article I read said that while those auto setup AVRs are great for setting the correct level of other speakers, they aren't as good at setting the level of subs. I'll keep trying.
 
#13,857 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 /forum/post/18971574


Not after Audyssey has set it in the program. If you move the gain on the sub then you have to redo Audyssey. You can up the gain/volume on the sub, but through the reciever sub db and not more than + or - 3 db. If you go beyond this, you defeat Audyssey settings for the sub. This was explained by Chris on the Audyssey forum.



Bill

No Bill this is not what I am saying. You do this procedure of setting the sub level to get Audyssey to set the volume trim of the sub correctly in the AVR. One reading, stop, check level, adjust. You do not run the Multi postition complete setup until you can achieve the -1 or -2 setting. Then when you are at this point without adjusting the sub gain any more you then run the complete Audyssey routine.
 
#13,858 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Tebo /forum/post/18971608


OK, I understand what you guys are saying, I'll give it a whirl tonight. We'll see what happens when I turn it down to 10:00 and recallibrate. Better get home before my wife does, as she doesn't get the joy in listening to annoying beeps over and over. It does take an awful long time and I'll probably lose patience after the first or second try. How many positions do you suppose I really have to test? Just used 3 last night. EDIT: Nevermind, I see that using just one is fine for sub calibration.


I read a few subwoofer setup articles, and the last article I read said that while those auto setup AVRs are great for setting the correct level of other speakers, they aren't as good at setting the level of subs. I'll keep trying.

Now you got it. Only run one pass then check sub level trim in AVR. -12=lower sub gain. +12=raise sub gain. When at -1 or -2 then run all Audyssey passes.
 
#13,859 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek /forum/post/18971804


Now you got it. Only run one pass then check sub level trim in AVR. -12=lower sub gain. +12=raise sub gain. When at -1 or -2 then run all Audyssey passes.

Never did understand this. All one needs to do is use receiver test tones and a spl meter first. Is so much easier. It always puts me to -3db after audyssey.
 
#13,860 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by warlord260 /forum/post/18972258


Never did understand this. All one needs to do is use receiver test tones and a spl meter first. Is so much easier. It always puts me to -3db after audyssey.

Yes if they are like you and I who own a SPL meter. This procedure is for the other less fortunate.
 
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