Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 697 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #20881 of 20900 Old 03-22-2017, 09:19 AM
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in the first picture would i just put on one banana plug for both red and white wires? i have to use both output channels correct? sorry, im really not smart
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post #20882 of 20900 Old 03-22-2017, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by XXXtraanchovie View Post
if im only powering one subwoofer should i just buy a speakon y cable?
NO! Speaker cables don't work that way and you'll get yourself into trouble. Just follow the steps I posted a couple days ago. You'll just use one amp channel and it will sound fine.

Last edited by Dreamliner; 03-22-2017 at 09:49 AM.
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post #20883 of 20900 Old 03-22-2017, 09:44 AM
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or do i just use regular speaker wire and twist both ends together and make one positive wire and one negative?
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post #20884 of 20900 Old 03-22-2017, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
NO!

Speaker cables don't work that way and you'll get yourself into trouble. Just follow the steps I posted a couple days ago. You'll just use one amp channel and it will sound fine.
awesome!!! thank you very much. i was confused about having to use both channels and didnt know how to explain it. thanks again for understanding my autism spectrum brains logic
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post #20885 of 20900 Old 03-22-2017, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXtraanchovie View Post
awesome!!! thank you very much. i was confused about having to use both channels and didnt know how to explain it. thanks again for understanding my autism spectrum brains logic
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Originally Posted by XXXtraanchovie View Post
in the first picture would i just put on one banana plug for both red and white wires? i have to use both output channels correct? sorry, im really not smart
You are smart enough to do this, I promise.

One amplifier channel per subwoofer is all you need.
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post #20886 of 20900 Old 03-22-2017, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
You've got to quote people so they know your trying to talk to them.

The iNukes are great amplifiers. The 6000 is essentially 2 bridged 3000's. My 6000 is running 2 Empires and my 6000 gain knob is at about "10 o-clock" and my Audyssey calibrated level came in at -4dB, so plenty of power.

MAKE SURE YOU REGISTER THE WARRANTY RIGHT AWAY ON THE BEHRINGER TO GET THE 3 YEAR WARRANTY OTHERWISE THEY ONLY WARRANTY IT FOR 1 YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have mine setup as 1 channel per sub, but if you get the 3000, you could bridge it if you only have 1 sub.

I have not yet configured my DSP, I just volume matched in Audyssey.

Basically, instead of a RCA cable going to your sub, you'll need a speaker wire instead. I just took my plate amp off, used 2 spade connectors to terminate the subwoofer wire that I cut off the plate amp. Then I used 2 more spade connectors for the speaker cable at the subwoofer and used a terminal strip to connect the two. This way I can easily disconnect the subwoofer from the wire if I ever need to. (I tried looking for a cable mount solution where I could use banana plugs on the speaker wire side and "female banana plugs" on the subwoofer side, but couldn't find anything. Ideally, I'd like to make a blank metal plate to replace the plate amp and mount a banana plug receptacle on it, but the following works just great.)

Use a "terminal strip" like this at the subs:


Use "spade connectors" like this at the sub:


Buy "Speakon connectors" like these for the amp end of the speaker wire:


The Behringer uses 1/4" TRS connectors, so you'll need adapters from your RCA preouts on your receiver.

If you want one simple cable, It will look like this and is called a "1/4 TS to Male RCA" cable:


If you already have RCA cables, get and adapter like this:


I have 2 subwoofer outputs on my receiver so I used 2 of these cables/adapters. Since you only have 1 sub, you only need 1 cable. If you get the 3000 with only 1 sub, I think you could run 1 cable to the amplifier and configure the DSP to BRIDGE mode. Manual page 7: http://www.behringer.com/assets/NU60...00DSP_M_EN.pdf.

If you ever run 2 subs, using 2 cables is less confusing if your receiver has 2 outputs. My amp is operating is DUAL mode (Page 7).

All these links/pics I've sent are not the exact one to buy, just what I could quickly find to show you what your looking for. Also, none of the pics are "to scale".

It isn't hard, just be patient.
Dreamliner, thanks for posting this and re-linking it today. Your post is very helpful and helped clear a lot regarding the cables. I do have a question regarding the link at the subwoofer. Some people were doing NL4MP jack at the subwoofer cable so that way you could just use a standard speakon wire with the twist lock connector. Do you see either method being easier or advantageous to the other?

Thanks for the help, planning on ordering all of my pieces today so I can rebuild this beast this weekend!
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post #20887 of 20900 Old 03-22-2017, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theanimala View Post
Dreamliner, thanks for posting this and re-linking it today. Your post is very helpful and helped clear a lot regarding the cables. I do have a question regarding the link at the subwoofer. Some people were doing NL4MP jack at the subwoofer cable so that way you could just use a standard speakon wire with the twist lock connector. Do you see either method being easier or advantageous to the other?

Thanks for the help, planning on ordering all of my pieces today so I can rebuild this beast this weekend!
Using a NL4MP jack is better and the best solution.

I sold my plate amps so I had nothing to mount a NL4MP to and I had the terminal strips in the garage. Heck, if you really wanted, you could even wire nut it.

Ideally, I'd like to get a blank metal plate fabricated with a NL4MP jack in the center.
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post #20888 of 20900 Old 03-25-2017, 02:45 PM
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Okay, I'm going to chime in here to make sure I have everything figured out. I'm fairly certain my Epic Empire amp died, although it STILL TURNS ON and shows a red light when switched on. However it never makes a peep anymore even with test tones (nor does the light turn green as it used to when it got a signal). When I unplug the rca and put it into a different borrowed sub, that sub works fine (rules out receiver and cable issues). So again, assuming amp. If you think I can fix mine since my light turns on, let me know, although I did find a moderate sized splash of soot when I took the plate amp off.

Here is what I'm set to buy along with an iNuke3000 (not sure if I really want to spring $50 for the DSP, I doubt I'll ever fiddle with it).

Neutrik NL4MP-ST 4-Pole Chassis Connector, Black D-size flange (to attach to plate amp, and wire the 2 speaker cables into once cut)

6 Foot 12 Gauge Speakon Compatible Speaker Cable For PA DJ Speakers
(to connect from NL4MP above to the iNuke)

Hosa GPR-101 RCA to 1/4" TS adaptor

Seems pretty straight forward, cut the red/black speaker cable off the plate amp, strip and plug into NL4MP, use new speakon cable to connect to new amp, use existing RCA cable with TS adapter to plug into new amp.

Does that seem right, or am I missing something? Thanks for the help, I love this forum (and used this thread years ago to decide on the epic empire )
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post #20889 of 20900 Old 03-28-2017, 07:50 PM
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Official Epik Subwoofer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberfish1 View Post
Okay, I'm going to chime in here to make sure I have everything figured out. I'm fairly certain my Epic Empire amp died, although it STILL TURNS ON and shows a red light when switched on. However it never makes a peep anymore even with test tones (nor does the light turn green as it used to when it got a signal). When I unplug the rca and put it into a different borrowed sub, that sub works fine (rules out receiver and cable issues). So again, assuming amp. If you think I can fix mine since my light turns on, let me know, although I did find a moderate sized splash of soot when I took the plate amp off.



Here is what I'm set to buy along with an iNuke3000 (not sure if I really want to spring $50 for the DSP, I doubt I'll ever fiddle with it).



Neutrik NL4MP-ST 4-Pole Chassis Connector, Black D-size flange (to attach to plate amp, and wire the 2 speaker cables into once cut)



6 Foot 12 Gauge Speakon Compatible Speaker Cable For PA DJ Speakers
(to connect from NL4MP above to the iNuke)



Hosa GPR-101 RCA to 1/4" TS adaptor



Seems pretty straight forward, cut the red/black speaker cable off the plate amp, strip and plug into NL4MP, use new speakon cable to connect to new amp, use existing RCA cable with TS adapter to plug into new amp.



Does that seem right, or am I missing something? Thanks for the help, I love this forum (and used this thread years ago to decide on the epic empire )
Exactly correct.

They do make a RCA to TS cable if you want it. I had the adaptors on hand.
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post #20890 of 20900 Old 04-01-2017, 12:31 PM
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radical! i totally did it! wasnt able to fine tune anything as my laptop is broken but everything sounded really well right out of the box. i read where another poster used an inuke6000dsp for their conquest and decided maybe i should go that route as well. returned 3000dsp and bought 6000dsp only to find out 6000dsp cannot be bridged. from what im reading, one channel is the same as a bridged 3000dsp. for some reason, the bridged 3000dsp sounded much louder and hit harder than the 6000dsp and im not sure why. toy'd with certain settings and still cant get it to sound as good as the 3000dsp right out of the box. on the 3000 the volume knob would be about half. 6000 is on full and still doesnt sound as good. any ideas? thanks for all the help dudes/dudesses
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post #20891 of 20900 Old 04-01-2017, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by XXXtraanchovie View Post
radical! i totally did it! wasnt able to fine tune anything as my laptop is broken but everything sounded really well right out of the box. i read where another poster used an inuke6000dsp for their conquest and decided maybe i should go that route as well. returned 3000dsp and bought 6000dsp only to find out 6000dsp cannot be bridged. from what im reading, one channel is the same as a bridged 3000dsp. for some reason, the bridged 3000dsp sounded much louder and hit harder than the 6000dsp and im not sure why. toy'd with certain settings and still cant get it to sound as good as the 3000dsp right out of the box. on the 3000 the volume knob would be about half. 6000 is on full and still doesnt sound as good. any ideas? thanks for all the help dudes/dudesses
Interesting.

I have a 6000DSP and 2 Empires (one connected to each channel). My gain knobs are at about 10 o'clock and it's quite loud.

Are you certain the subwoofer channel level on your receiver didn't get turned down?
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post #20892 of 20900 Old 04-20-2017, 08:15 AM
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Looking to acquire a second Phoenix if anyone is contemplating a sale. Looking for it to be in perfect or near perfect condition, and preferably in the Midwest to avoid shipping. Let me know. Thanks.
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post #20893 of 20900 Old 06-08-2017, 12:50 PM
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I've been using a single Empire in my fairly small home theater. Amp went out a few years ago and I modded to power with an inuke6000dsp.

So I just picked up a Legend with a dead amp and want input into how to utilize it. My first thought is to add it to the inuke and run it in a different corner of the home theater. Anyone already running a mixed set or see problems with running Empire and Legend in same setup? If not I'll give it a try and see how it actually sounds in real life. If that doesn't work out, I'll end up using it in another room.

Thanks,
David
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post #20894 of 20900 Old 06-10-2017, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMP View Post
I've been using a single Empire in my fairly small home theater. Amp went out a few years ago and I modded to power with an inuke6000dsp.

So I just picked up a Legend with a dead amp and want input into how to utilize it. My first thought is to add it to the inuke and run it in a different corner of the home theater. Anyone already running a mixed set or see problems with running Empire and Legend in same setup? If not I'll give it a try and see how it actually sounds in real life. If that doesn't work out, I'll end up using it in another room.

Thanks,
David
You may as well try it. I have 2 Empires running off a 6000dsp. I ended up with placement in front right & rear left corners due to my room layout. Sounds great. I have friends who mixed & matched subs and they like it. My Denon X6300 has 2 sub outs and Audyssey calibration has me set the levels for each separately so they are balanced at the main listening position.

If your receiver has two sub outs that are calibrated separately you can do what I did.

If your receiver only has one sub out but you still have a similar microphone calibration with subwoofer level adjustment: Start with a strong subwoofer output level on the receiver and simply adjust the level on the iNuke for Sub 1, then switch the sub out cable from the receiver to the sub 2 input on the iNuke and adjust the sub 2 level on the iNuke so the dB of sub 2 is the same as sub 1. Then set the iNuke to send the same signal to both subwoofers and you're done. Going forward adjusting the level on the receiver will affect both subs equally.

If your receiver doesn't have a microphone subwoofer calibration: Use a dB meter or you can also tune by ear as a last resort.

Just get your dB output levels equal and I'm sure you'll be satisfied.
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post #20895 of 20900 Old 06-21-2017, 04:10 PM
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Well, it happened. My Epik Empire quietly died a couple days ago. I noticed that things didn't sound quite right and then I saw the little LED was neither red nor green. I got my Empire sometime in November/December 2010 and never had any problems until now. I wasn't aware that the company shut down until some time after the fact when I was reading the message board here. Now, I'm catching up on how to fix the darn thing.
I pulled out the plate amp today, no obvious signs of distress, but they could have made the speaker wires a little longer.

I'm probably going to go with one of the Behringer iNuke amps. I just need to sort out what special connectors I need. I would guess I want to run it in bridge mode. Any thoughts on using the iNuke NU1000DSP? It appears to have more power than the original plate amp, but I see most of you are using the 3000 or 6000 model.

I downloaded the manual a few minutes ago, haven't studied it yet, so...
If I use bridge mode, do I need to connect the signal to both inputs?
How many of those speaker connectors do I need to run my single Empire?

Edit: I did find the fuse on the Empire, but it was not blown, so something else failed. It would be hard to work on the plate amp, especially without any schematics so I cut the speaker leads from the amp and will probably mount a terminal strip or some other connector on the cabinet. Looks like the iNuke 3000DSP will be what I get, more power for future use.

Last edited by Engineer99; 06-22-2017 at 08:25 AM.
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post #20896 of 20900 Old 06-22-2017, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engineer99 View Post
Well, it happened. My Epik Empire quietly died a couple days ago. I noticed that things didn't sound quite right and then I saw the little LED was neither red nor green. I got my Empire sometime in November/December 2010 and never had any problems until now. I wasn't aware that the company shut down until some time after the fact when I was reading the message board here. Now, I'm catching up on how to fix the darn thing.
I pulled out the plate amp today, no obvious signs of distress, but they could have made the speaker wires a little longer.

I'm probably going to go with one of the Behringer iNuke amps. I just need to sort out what special connectors I need. I would guess I want to run it in bridge mode. Any thoughts on using the iNuke NU1000DSP? It appears to have more power than the original plate amp, but I see most of you are using the 3000 or 6000 model.

I downloaded the manual a few minutes ago, haven't studied it yet, so...
If I use bridge mode, do I need to connect the signal to both inputs?
How many of those speaker connectors do I need to run my single Empire?

Edit: I did find the fuse on the Empire, but it was not blown, so something else failed. It would be hard to work on the plate amp, especially without any schematics so I cut the speaker leads from the amp and will probably mount a terminal strip or some other connector on the cabinet. Looks like the iNuke 3000DSP will be what I get, more power for future use.
I do not recall for certain, but I *think* the Empire is 4 Ohm at the amplifier, so you can bridge a NU1000DSP as it's 4 Ohm stable bridged. You will only need one speaker wire to your sub, but two Speakon connectors.

I made a quick guide on what to do to here.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
I do not recall for certain, but I *think* the Empire is 4 Ohm at the amplifier, so you can bridge a NU1000DSP as it's 4 Ohm stable bridged. You will only need one speaker wire to your sub, but two Speakon connectors.

I made a quick guide on what to do to here.

Yeah, Thanks. I've been catching up on the messages here and now I have a pretty good idea of what I need. I was not familiar with the Speakon connectors before.

I will need to know how the DSP is set up for best Empire performance.
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Are the specs for the Empire drivers available? I mean, everyone is hooking up iNuke 3000s or 6000s and I've got to ask how do you prevent the drivers from self-destructing from too much power. Has anyone put a fuse or breaker in series with the drivers or does the iNuke have current limiting? I'm gathering the connectors and parts I need and it occurred to me a fuse or breaker could save the day at some point.
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post #20899 of 20900 Old Yesterday, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engineer99 View Post
Yeah, Thanks. I've been catching up on the messages here and now I have a pretty good idea of what I need. I was not familiar with the Speakon connectors before.

I will need to know how the DSP is set up for best Empire performance.
I've not yet done an actual calibration with my calibration mic (which would show me the actual frequency response of the subwoofer) but all I did was bump 20Hz a bit in the PEQ, set the Peak Limiter to -1 and leave everything else flat. Your receiver should have subwoofer crossover setting so its not needed on the DSP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Engineer99 View Post
Are the specs for the Empire drivers available? I mean, everyone is hooking up iNuke 3000s or 6000s and I've got to ask how do you prevent the drivers from self-destructing from too much power. Has anyone put a fuse or breaker in series with the drivers or does the iNuke have current limiting? I'm gathering the connectors and parts I need and it occurred to me a fuse or breaker could save the day at some point.
That is a bit of a misnomer. Speakers and subwoofers do not fail from too MUCH power, they far more often fail from too LITTLE power. Subwoofers primarily fail when the voice-coil melts and the woofer itself physically stops moving because it was played too loud with not enough power. Powerful amplifiers are a good thing because they have the ability to fully control the movement of the speaker, you get in trouble when the amplifier loses control.

Honestly, unless your ears are bleeding, your not going to blow up your woofers, especially if you run your receiver calibration (Audyssey on Denon, for example). If you were on the verge of destroying your subs, you would hear it; hearing distortion from playing too loud with an under-powered amplifier or hearing distortion from over-exerting the drivers with too much power. To over-exert these drivers though, it would be seriously uncomfortably loud.

I have two Empires running off a 6000DSP and both dials are around 10 o'clock. I set the level at the iNuke during the Audyssey calibration when it was measuring the subwoofer volume, and I have not touched it since. Of course after the calibration, Audyssey decided something ridiculous like -10dB was the 'optimal' setting for the subs but I couldn't hear anything from them so I bumped the levels up to -3dB (on the receiver, not the iNuke). I firmly believe preference > reference, especially regarding Audyssey calibration's 'reference' subwoofer and rear speaker levels.

I did set the Peak Limiter to -1 in the iNuke but I'm sure this has had zero real world effect as the volume levels are not loud enough where this would engage.


Here are the actual specifications to the Epik Empire Drivers:

Znom 8 ohms
Re 5.7 ohms
Sd
805 cm^2
Pmax 400 W
Mms 200 g
Cms 250 uM/N
Vas 231 L
Fs
22.5 Hz
BL 23
Qms
4.1066
Qes 0.3061
Qts 0.2848
Le 3.15 mH
Spl 91.192 1W/1M
Xmax 13 mm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXtraanchovie View Post
ended up buying an inuke3000dsp. hopefully its enough power. i was able to use the old dead plate amp that has speaker terminals attached to hook up subwoofer speaker wire to. also bought two xlr to rca adapters (should i have bought 1/4 ts or 1/4 trs instead?) to hook up subwoofer rca cable with rca cable splitters. bought speakon connectors and already have banana plugs and extra speaker wire. waiting for shipment now but does this sound like i know what to do? seems too simple
I have two Epik Conquests myself and one amp just died. I am looking to get an inuke as well and was wondering how it sounds? Would love to get some feedback from any Conquests owners out there. Thanks.

Epson 5040UB, 110" Elite Screen, Marantz 7702 MKII, Emotiva XPA-2, 3x Emotiva XPA-1, Emotiva UPA-5, Rotel RB-1050, Paradigm Studio 100's V3 (Towers), Paradigm CC-570 V3 (Center), Niles HDFX (Surround), Niles HD8 (Surround Back), 4x Speakercraft AIM7 THREE Series 2 (Atmos/DTSX), 2x Epik Conquest 18" 1000 watt (Subwoofers), (Xbox One/Wii U/PS4 Pro)-------Next on the list: Two rows of three Octane Seating - Turbo XL700 & Bass Shakers.
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