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post #9001 of 10505 Old 05-20-2011, 12:25 PM
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Did you ever respond re: how large your room was?

 

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post #9002 of 10505 Old 05-20-2011, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rampage123 View Post

Thanks for all the replies, the pc ultras are powerful and I'm glad I got'em. Like mojomike said, perhaps somewhat over qualified in my case. I will experiment with port blocking but I do like strong bass, and I really like the cylinder look.
I sure appreciate the support/comments from other SVS owners.

Sealing them for music will tighten things up...sharpen the attack a tad. I really liked it.

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #9003 of 10505 Old 05-20-2011, 02:32 PM
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I can certainly say, that I love my PC12-plus DSP in sealed mode - I have 1900 cubic feet room - and I've never had it loud enough to notice any disortion (and for my room the roomgain and fall in output in lower bass in sealed tune matches perfectly.

... and perhaps it was because of the flat FR, but sealed tune made the bass sound tighter
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post #9004 of 10505 Old 05-20-2011, 05:38 PM
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Did you ever respond re: how large your room was?

Yes I did, about 2700 cu/ft.
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post #9005 of 10505 Old 05-20-2011, 05:42 PM
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Sealing them for music will tighten things up...sharpen the attack a tad. I really liked it.

Thanks, I'm still experimenting, I will give a full personal summary soon.
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post #9006 of 10505 Old 05-26-2011, 06:54 AM
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After several hours of playing music in all 4 subwoofer modes, I've decided to stay with 20 HZ tune. Sealed is a bit tighter but even with all ports open the bass is well controlled in comparison, but with more authority.
I would be satisfied with either of the 4 settings but prefer the strong output fully ported provides. This is in a 2 ch system with large floorstanders.
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post #9007 of 10505 Old 05-26-2011, 08:45 AM
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Has anyone tried a sealed tuning mode but with no port plugs installed? I know it is not suggested from the SVS documentation but I have read in a few places where owners were getting good results.

Tim
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post #9008 of 10505 Old 05-26-2011, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by tcottonab View Post

Has anyone tried a sealed tuning mode but with no port plugs installed? I know it is not suggested from the SVS documentation but I have read in a few places where owners were getting good results.

Tim

Running a ported sub with no filter protection under the tuning point is very ill-advised. It's an excellent way to risk damaging the driver. especially with certain movies there is a lot of bass energy in the frequences between 15 and 20hz. That's just thing to overdive the sub if no filter is used.
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post #9009 of 10505 Old 05-26-2011, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by rampage123 View Post

After several hours of playing music in all 4 subwoofer modes, I've decided to stay with 20 HZ tune. Sealed is a bit tighter but even with all ports open the bass is well controlled in comparison, but with more authority.
I would be satisfied with either of the 4 settings but prefer the strong output fully ported provides. This is in a 2 ch system with large floorstanders.

I have also used all the tuning modes for my PC13-Ultra--didn't care for the sealed mode--ran with one port sealed for several weeks but went back to 20Hz all ports open turning. Seems to give more punch to movies in that mode--and my system is used primarily for movies.

Bob

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post #9010 of 10505 Old 05-26-2011, 09:15 AM
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I run all 6 of mine in the 20 hz mode as well.
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post #9011 of 10505 Old 05-26-2011, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by d_m1010 View Post

I run all 6 of mine in the 20 hz mode as well.

....that's just bragging. lol

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post #9012 of 10505 Old 05-26-2011, 10:09 AM
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I run all 6 of mine in the 20 hz mode as well.

I might the next time I run Audyssey Pro... just to get those 1-2 extra dBs!

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post #9013 of 10505 Old 05-26-2011, 05:21 PM
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....that's just bragging. lol

Well, you could get a second one for cheap if you could use gloss black.

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post #9014 of 10505 Old 05-30-2011, 09:17 PM
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Which setting do you think is used the most (regardless of room size). S,M,L or Off . An owner stated that his ultra sub was bottoming/clanking with room comp off, and switching to medium solved that problem.
Actually I don't understand how changing the setting can help that.
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post #9015 of 10505 Old 05-30-2011, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by rampage123 View Post

Which setting do you think is used the most (regardless of room size). S,M,L or Off . An owner stated that his ultra sub was bottoming/clanking with room comp off, and switching to medium solved that problem.
Actually I don't understand how changing the setting can help that.

With room you get room gain. The room compensation modes decrease some of the low end output, so will keep from driver from over extension. Off should be used unless you have lots of room gain. I am not a fan of using the room compensation modes if other ways to adjust frequency response (tuning modes, eq, seat and sub placement...).
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post #9016 of 10505 Old 05-31-2011, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by rampage123 View Post

Actually I don't understand how changing the setting can help that.

Basically room compensation switch reduces the output of low (deep) bass. Deep bass really reduces the workload on the sub, and thus the sub can play more cleanly and with more output.

You want to use room compensation when your room naturally boosts the bass so you don't get overwhelmed with deep bass. I wouldn't think the average big screen TV room would need to use anything less than Large.

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post #9017 of 10505 Old 05-31-2011, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

Basically room compensation switch reduces the output of low (deep) bass. Deep bass really reduces the workload on the sub, and thus the sub can play more cleanly and with more output.

You want to use room compensation when your room naturally boosts the bass so you don't get overwhelmed with deep bass. I wouldn't think the average big screen TV room would need to use anything less than Large.

So then the higher the setting is eg... large /off, the easier the workload is on the subwoofer?
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post #9018 of 10505 Old 05-31-2011, 10:34 AM
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rampage - no its the other way round

with mine I find flatest response Medium and 10hz
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post #9019 of 10505 Old 05-31-2011, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by rampage123 View Post

So then the higher the setting is eg... large /off, the easier the workload is on the subwoofer?

The "easiest" setting on the sub would be "small" as it would impose the highest high pass filter (e.g., 35hz for arguments sakes vs 30hz for medium and 25hz for large - I haven't measured these and am just using numbers as approximates). So under any of the above it would filter out the signal at a 4th order (24db per octave) roll off.

But as Luke and others mentioned above, you would need to measure how the sub is responding in your room to figure out if you have a rising in room response down low (lots of room gain) which could be tamed by that room compensation control. If you don't, no need to use it as you're simply limiting the sub.

If the other owner was bottoming out or whatever, it was likely more a scenario of pushing his sub beyond its limits down low. So the room compensation control likely "limited" what his sub was getting and masked the issue (while also removing much of his subs response), but the reality is either he has too "little sub" for the size of his room or is running his sub exceedingly hot and over driving it.

 

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post #9020 of 10505 Old 05-31-2011, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by pbc View Post

The "easiest" setting on the sub would be "small" as it would impose the highest high pass filter (e.g., 35hz for arguments sakes vs 30hz for medium and 25hz for large - I haven't measured these and am just using numbers as approximates). So under any of the above it would filter out the signal at a 4th order (24db per octave) roll off.

I know you weren't quoting exact specs, but just for the sake of accuracy, here is the description from the owner's manual:

This function operates by setting a corner frequency of 40Hz (small size rooms), 31Hz (medium size rooms), 25Hz (large
size rooms) or Disabled (no compensation), and allows a target slope of either 6 dB per octave (first order) or 12 dB per
octave (second order) roll off from the selected corner frequency. This has the effect of attenuating the lower frequencies
below the selected corner frequency at a rate commensurate with the selected slope.

-Mike
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post #9021 of 10505 Old 05-31-2011, 11:24 AM
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I get obvious peaks in my REW measurement in my room on the 10hz tune @15hz or so (in large/off) and on the 15hz tune @ 20hz (large/off)
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post #9022 of 10505 Old 05-31-2011, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by rampage123 View Post

So then the higher the setting is eg... large /off, the easier the workload is on the subwoofer?

as mentioned above, small is the easiest on the sub. It cuts off the bass earliest (starting at a higher frequency) because if you have a small room, the room naturally (due to acoustics) gives you a very large boost in bass, so you want to cut back the sub's bass more to balance things out. How much boost you have depends on where you place it and the room itself. Of course, cutting a wider range of deep bass gives you more upper bass output which helps ease the driver/amp workload

I helped a friend place his PB13 and the best results were Large with -6db slope and 16Hz tune mode. For a different room and tune mode, you might get different results

I assume that a lot of people buying a sub like the PB13 have fairly large rooms, so they don't need to cut as much bass in general, usually running it in 20Hz tune mode gives you a good balance of output with good flat extension into the teen Hertz range in a moderately sized room.

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post #9023 of 10505 Old 05-31-2011, 06:10 PM
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Small is easier for the sub, off is tougher. Ok, then in order to hear the powerful bass the off setting provides, would the gain need to be increased if for example set to small ?
Then would turning up the gain put more stress on the amp ? I run mine all ports open room comp set to off. I don't need to turn the gain up much at all to get impressive/strong bass and the plate amp hardly warms up at all.
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post #9024 of 10505 Old 05-31-2011, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironhead1230 View Post

I know you weren't quoting exact specs, but just for the sake of accuracy, here is the description from the owner's manual:

This function operates by setting a corner frequency of 40Hz (small size rooms), 31Hz (medium size rooms), 25Hz (large
size rooms) or Disabled (no compensation), and allows a target slope of either 6 dB per octave (first order) or 12 dB per
octave (second order) roll off from the selected corner frequency. This has the effect of attenuating the lower frequencies
below the selected corner frequency at a rate commensurate with the selected slope.

-Mike

Interesting. Is that from the Sledge amp? I don't recall this in the manual for the BASH amp, and there was definitely no way to adjust the slope (was simply guessing at the 4th order). Will have to measure it one day to see if I can figure out what it was on the older amp.

 

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post #9025 of 10505 Old 05-31-2011, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rampage123 View Post

Small is easier for the sub, off is tougher. Ok, then in order to hear the powerful bass the off setting provides, would the gain need to be increased if for example set to small ?
Then would turning up the gain put more stress on the amp ? I run mine all ports open room comp set to off. I don't need to turn the gain up much at all to get impressive/strong bass and the plate amp hardly warms up at all.

The gain has nothing to do with the room compensation setting.

 

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Quote from Mr Ed Mullen...

Quote:


The subs have amp limiters and also high pass filters for each tune. The RGC is indeed a high pass filter - 6 dB/octave for each setting, and they all cascade. So Small is 18 dB/octave. This is above/beyond the normal high pass associated with each tune switch setting.

Below is the affect of the control in each tune - 20/15/Sealed. You can see just how much each setting scrubs off at a given frequency for each tune. Medium will scrub off about 3 dB @ 20 Hz in the 20 Hz tune, and so forth.






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post #9027 of 10505 Old 05-31-2011, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Interesting. Is that from the Sledge amp? I don't recall this in the manual for the BASH amp, and there was definitely no way to adjust the slope (was simply guessing at the 4th order). Will have to measure it one day to see if I can figure out what it was on the older amp.

You're right, my comments were for the sledge amp from this manual.
http://www.svsound.com/newmanuals/SV...Manual_WEB.pdf

From the manual for the bash amp there is no way to adjust the slope and it doesn't say what the slope actually is, but there is a graph in this manual:
http://svsound.com/manuals/PB13_Ultra_rev4.pdf

It looks like on the bash amp, the different settings change both the knee and slope.



-Mike
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post #9028 of 10505 Old 06-01-2011, 04:29 AM
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The gain has nothing to do with the room compensation setting.

I still don't get it. Switching between the 4 settings I really don't hear any difference. Maybe because I only listen to music around 80-90 db SPL.
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post #9029 of 10505 Old 06-01-2011, 04:39 AM
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rampage

I think most music doesn't have the lows that would be affected by those settings.

Home theater is a different matter. You have LFE (low frequency effects) that would go that low.

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post #9030 of 10505 Old 06-01-2011, 05:49 AM
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I still don't get it. Switching between the 4 settings I really don't hear any difference. Maybe because I only listen to music around 80-90 db SPL.

More likely because unless you listen to music that has a lot of low end bass, where the high pass filter is set makes a neglible difference because there isn't much under 30/40hz as is.

Try putting in the "Pulse" computer lab scene or the WOTW Pods emerging scene and then listen with the various compensations.

 

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