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post #1 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I have been using my SMS-1 for a few weeks with my PB-13 Ultra. I have been running the Ultra in 20hz and now I want to try it in 15hz. I did a master reset of the SMS-1 so that I could start fresh. However, now every time I try and do the Self-EQ, whether I am in 15 hz or 20 hz, the SMS takes like 3 passes and then resets to the front screen. What do I do? I really need some help here.
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post #2 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 08:22 AM
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Dunno. However, the self-EQ is a mere shadow of the manual in that it is limited to the F and Q default values.

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post #3 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 08:28 AM
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I'm not sure what's wrong but you really should be EQ'ing manually, do not use the self-EQ mode. The Self-EQ usually does a horrible job.

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post #4 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I use the self-EQ as a starting point and then tweak it manually from there.
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post #5 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post

I use the self-EQ as a starting point and then tweak it manually from there.

the problem is that the self EQ is using default F values which may not be close to where you need to work...it's best to just do the manual EQ.
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post #6 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 09:00 AM
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Always better to do manual tweeking.... The SMS just doesn't have the processing power to cover everything in the room....

Nice to see where your at as a starting point, but I could never rely on it for my final result... Get the Outlaw Manual and go the whole nine yards... Its a great guide, and will cover anything you need to know...
http://pdf.outlawaudio.com/outlaw/docs/sms1guide.pdf


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post #7 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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in the manual set-up I have the volume of the SMS at 40. does that seem right? or is that too high?
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post #8 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is what my room looks like running the PB-13 at 15 hz. Have I EQ'd this correctly? Or should I am doing something wrong? I had an extremely steep null at 80hz and I tried my best to correct it, I think that is just the room. But this is my first experiance with the SMS so I would love some input.
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post #9 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post

Here is what my room looks like running the PB-13 at 15 hz. Have I EQ'd this correctly? Or should I am doing something wrong? I had an extremely steep null at 80hz and I tried my best to correct it, I think that is just the room. But this is my first experiance with the SMS so I would love some input.

Wow, dude, 40 vol? What's your sub gain set to and also the LFE level set to in your receiver?

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post #10 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 11:13 AM
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Also, for the big null you had, did you try tweaking the phase - it may help as much as boosting those frequencies.

And it's usually easier to make changes in one of the presets - custom for instance - as "setup" effects all the others the same. That way you can have different curves for different functions; HT, music etc.

I see you are boosting at 20hz - not usually a good thing but as the SMS-1 rolls off down there anyway I'm not sure if it's such a bad thing either when using it.

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post #11 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 11:26 AM
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I don't like it. You're asking for trouble. You're cutting 25-63hz and boosting 20hz, 80-100hz to compensate for the null. I think the overall output is low b/c of all the cuts and you'll end up raising master volume to calibrate to 75db for all channels. Problem is, when the movie gets loud, the boosted regions will distort heavy. You will bottom out.
Try The Haunting DTS (chapter 10) and Day After Tomorrow (early in movie when Gyllenhall on plane to NYC, thunder crashes)

I can't say if the master volume of 40 is too high or not (i think it is), because the gain on the back of your sub maybe low. Here's my set up: Processor sub volume is -10db, SMS-1 volume is 16, PC-Ultra just under the third dash for gain, Paradigm Servo 15 is at 1/4 gain.


Turn off the xover in the sub and in your receiver. Unplug your main speakers. Set it back for 20hz tune and show me the uncorrected plot and I'll try to help.
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post #12 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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I have it back down around 20 now.

i will post the un-touched plot in just a few minutes. thanks for the help!!!!
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post #13 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 11:53 AM
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here's the order you should work in:

I am assuming the easiest config, which is all channels set to small, crossed off at 80hz in the receiver/prepro. All other sub adjustments in receiver and sub amp turned off.

1. find the location with the least nulls
2. experiment with port tune and room compensation (on SVS subs )
3. manually EQ under a preset with only the sub playing.
4. now plug in the main speakers. The overlap area may be bumpy. Now play with polarity and then phase for smoothest response.
5. calibrate all channels' output.
6. play test material at increasing volumes until you get to demo/wife's-outta-da-house volumes to see if you can cause distortion. Those samples I mentioned above are the worst offenders in my collection. if you hear distortion or worse, clacking or some other mechanical noise from the sub, somewhere along the chain the output is too high.
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post #14 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok. I reset the SMS to the default settings.
1. My sub is about -5 db on on my pre hitting right about 75 db on my SPL meter.
2. These pictures has the receiver's volume loud enough to hit around 80 db on the SMS, and the SMS volume at 20.
3. The gain on the SVS is right at the 3rd tick mark and the phase is currently at 90 degrees.
4. I have not touched anything else, so this should be an acurate picture of the room.
LL
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post #15 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh the SVS is tuned at 15hz
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post #16 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 12:22 PM
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can you unplug your mains and set the tune to 20hz please. A lower tune reaches lower, but at the expense of output. Your output from 25hz and lower is too low.
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post #17 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I set it back to 20 hz. I can un-plug the interconnects of my mains, but i cannot unplug the speaker wire itself, is that ok?
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post #18 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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where do you want to set the phase at?
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post #19 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 12:37 PM
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set it at 0 for convenience sake. it'll only matter when you add the mains back in the mix.
i'll show you my curve in a bit.
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post #20 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok. SVS is tuned at 20 hz, my interconnects are unplugged for my speakers, and the phase is at 0. how does this look? this is default on everything and the sms volume is at 20, I cannot remeber what the exact volume on my pre is.

Thanks for the help!
LL
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post #21 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 12:49 PM
 
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Rydenfan, what level do you calibrate for the subwoofer level ? 75 dB's, 72 dB's or higher ?
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post #22 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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it is right around 74 on my SPL meter
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post #23 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Bing, you still there?
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post #24 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
I cannot remeber what the exact volume on my pre is.

don't worry about that right now.

15hz tune looks a little better. let's leave it at 20hz for now. can the sub be moved? if not then, try room compensation knob on the SVS. Pick one size and lemme know if it helps with the drop off below 30hz. I recall it boosts the output down low. my room has a boost at 25hz so i don't use it.
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post #25 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I have it set to large. Do you want me to change it to medium?
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post #26 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 01:00 PM
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so the last pic you sent is with room comp on? what does it look like with it off?
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post #27 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 01:01 PM
 
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I also have the SMS-1 and I'm also learning how to use it. I have mostly boosted in the 50 to 80 hz range as I've got dips ranging from 4 to 10 dB's in that region. All the punch is lost when EQ is disabled because of cancellations.

The only problem is that the bass that I've boosted sounds a bit boomy to me and I think it's because of the Q filters I've used. No where in the manual (or in the Outlaw manual either) does it go into depth about matching Q filters and that narrow Q filters can increase modal decay that those frequencies.

I still have no clue how to match the filter to target resonances because I don't have software to use. I'm just using the SMS-1 and no one has been able to explain how I can reduce the decay times of the "boosting" in the region I'm targeting.

So, yeah.

PS The 74 dB figure you are reading on your SPL meter (it is Radio Shack, right ? ) reads a bit low so you're actually set to around 76 dB's)
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post #28 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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this is with room compinsation set to off and tuned to 20 hz
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post #29 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 01:14 PM
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Velodyne cautions about performing auto EQ and then manipulating the settings. Warpdrive is correct, the auto set up leaves a lot to be desired. At best it's a good tutorial on how it works. Reset the unit to the defaults and start from scratch. I had a problem where my SMS did a similar thing, three or four sweeps and that was it. I went to the Velodyne site and reloaded the firmware. It may be coincidence but no problems since. The auto set up did an OK job in my room but starting from scratch with the manual EQ was far superior. The SMS overcorrected at 20 Hz by 6 dB, not so noticable with most music but movies were boomy. I don't know why it boosted so much, the sub is very close to flat at 20 in it's current location.
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post #30 of 111 Old 10-06-2007, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I had forgotten to change some settings back in the menu when i reset, so this is now what it looks like tuned at 20, with no adjustments to the front screen, my speakers unplugged, and room comp off
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