PSB subsonic 6i or the SVS PB10-NSD - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 11-15-2007, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi. I'm a noob and putting together my first HT. I have on order PSB speakers:
Image C60 for center
Image T45 for L/R mains
Will be getting surrounds soon, just deciding between the Image S50 or Image B25.
My room size is 11.75' x 16.75' with about 8.5' for ceiling height in a house.
I'm looking at the 6i (12") for $500 or the PB10-NSD (10") for $430 for a sub and not sure which one to get. The SVS looks to have a deeper frequency response. My friend has a PSB 5i (10") and I like how it sounds. But I don't know anyone with an SVS sub. I guess I'm looking for some thoughts from anyone who has experience with these subs.
I'm looking at the Onkyo 605 for the reciever.
The setup will be about 60% movies, 30% games and 10% music.
thanks
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post #2 of 28 Old 11-15-2007, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefflilj View Post

Hi. I'm a noob and putting together my first HT. I have on order PSB speakers:
Image C60 for center
Image T45 for L/R mains
Will be getting surrounds soon, just deciding between the Image S50 or Image B25.
My room size is 11.75' x 16.75' with about 8.5' for ceiling height in a house.
I'm looking at the 6i (12") for $500 or the PB10-NSD (10") for $430 for a sub and not sure which one to get. The SVS looks to have a deeper frequency response. My friend has a PSB 5i (10") and I like how it sounds. But I don't know anyone with an SVS sub. I guess I'm looking for some thoughts from anyone who has experience with these subs.
I'm looking at the Onkyo 605 for the reciever.
The setup will be about 60% movies, 30% games and 10% music.
thanks

If you do not mind the fact that the PB-10 NSD does not have a crossover, it should be a better performer. I like to have a crossover on my subwoofers, however, most people use the crossover on their receiver.
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post #3 of 28 Old 11-15-2007, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefflilj View Post

Hi. I'm a noob and putting together my first HT. I have on order PSB speakers:
Image C60 for center
Image T45 for L/R mains
Will be getting surrounds soon, just deciding between the Image S50 or Image B25.
My room size is 11.75' x 16.75' with about 8.5' for ceiling height in a house.
I'm looking at the 6i (12") for $500 or the PB10-NSD (10") for $430 for a sub and not sure which one to get. The SVS looks to have a deeper frequency response. My friend has a PSB 5i (10") and I like how it sounds. But I don't know anyone with an SVS sub. I guess I'm looking for some thoughts from anyone who has experience with these subs.
I'm looking at the Onkyo 605 for the reciever.
The setup will be about 60% movies, 30% games and 10% music.
thanks

Hey,

Welcome to home theater. Consume you, it will . Anyway, first off, I'd like to warn you that most people on this forum will blindly recommend SVS just because it's a popular internet-direct company that has a very good reputation on the forums. So just take all of the SVS fanboyism with a grain of salt. It'll be very hard for you to find people that will give other subs a chance if SVS is one of the options you mentioned.

That said, I own a PB10-NSD and will honestly tell you that it truly IS a great sub. For its price, it is incredible. This is not me being a fanboy or someone who has heard from people on the forum that it's really great. I truly think it's an excellent sub. I admit that I have not heard the subsonic, so I can only go off of what I know based on the SVS that I do own. I can't compare the two, but I will say that I don't think you will be disappointed if you choose the SVS. Still, if your friend has the 10" PSB 5i and you like it, I'm sure the 12" PSB 6i will be an improvement over that. I'd demo the 12" if you get a chance. If you really like it, I'd say go with your ears and get it! If you've never heard the SVS and don't get a chance, what you haven't heard can't hurt you, and you'll be truly pleased with the sub you got. If you aren't blown away by the PSB 6i, I (as well as many others on this forum) can wholeheartedly recommend the PB10-NSD as an amazing subwoofer for under $500. Just my 2 cents.

Good luck!
Stephen
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post #4 of 28 Old 11-15-2007, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefflilj View Post

Hi. I'm a noob and putting together my first HT. I have on order PSB speakers:
Image C60 for center
Image T45 for L/R mains
Will be getting surrounds soon, just deciding between the Image S50 or Image B25.
My room size is 11.75' x 16.75' with about 8.5' for ceiling height in a house.
I'm looking at the 6i (12") for $500 or the PB10-NSD (10") for $430 for a sub and not sure which one to get. The SVS looks to have a deeper frequency response. My friend has a PSB 5i (10") and I like how it sounds. But I don't know anyone with an SVS sub. I guess I'm looking for some thoughts from anyone who has experience with these subs.
I'm looking at the Onkyo 605 for the reciever.
The setup will be about 60% movies, 30% games and 10% music.
thanks

As a former PB10-NSD AND a PB12-NSD I will be the first to let you know they both are very good with ht. Personally, I preferred the pitch of the PB10 more BUT the PB12 sure was a step-up down low resulting in more visceral impact. Keep in mind, that the PB10 is no slouch in that department either. For music, the nod would have to go to the PB10 BUT neither of which were imho that good w/musical applications. Given your preferences, my vote would be the PB10-NSD. Good luck in your decision.

It isn't about the product(s) YOU use but Rather how YOU use the product(s) that makes ALL of the difference!!!
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post #5 of 28 Old 11-15-2007, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. This is consuming. I've been reading alot of the threads all over this forum for months now and just started posting. Just been learning and have learned a ton. I even got some friends hooked on this site.

I figure I'd probably be happy with either sub, but wanted to get some opinions. My friend with the 5i is really into this stuff, but mostly on the music side. He really wanted a 12" but couldn't pass up the deal he got for the 5i. I started looking at the SVS cause the FR looks to go deeper and seems like it would perform better in a HT application, which I would like. He suggested to go for the SVS too. But I'm wondering how the PSB 12" and SVS 10" compare spec wise. It looks like they are pretty close power wise, but the PSB doesn't have a full FR graph so not sure how to really compare this. But a 12" over a 10" i would think could move more air. I wish I could audition them, being in Michigan though, I can't find anywhere that has these.
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post #6 of 28 Old 11-15-2007, 03:15 PM
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As a person who's owned both the SVS 12NSD and Subsonic 6i I would recommend the PSB. I had this same dilemna a year ago and asked Craigsub for his opinion of the 2, he recommended the PSB. I ended up ordering both for a side by side comparison and thought the PSB just sounded better. I ended up selling the SVS to my father in law and keeping the PSB for a second setup (I have an HSU 3.3 in my main HT). Beyond what the specs say it truly digs deep. 94db at 20hz is pretty good.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/spe...ubs-page9.html

Just my .02

Making the most out of what I got.
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post #7 of 28 Old 11-15-2007, 03:33 PM
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I have PSB Siliveri Stratus and c6i w/ SVS 12isd. + rears T+A rears.
I have an acoustically challenged LV. with about the same room size as yours. But after working hard on calibration spec.s The SQ is fantastic both for Movies & 5.1 sound.
i heard the PSB sub. but choose SVS[ with out demoing and couldn't be happier]. Also. SVS Customer Service is the best...[ alot of help with those small issues that come up with calibration. placement-sound quality- etc.. etc..& one of the best resources you could ask for.] PSB Customer Service>>> doesn't exsit.........
db
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post #8 of 28 Old 11-15-2007, 06:18 PM
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I was never a fan of the PB12NSD....it digs deep but I never thought it was a very musical sub. I compared it to my Mirage S12 and I thought the Mirage just sounded better.

In this case I would take the PSB. BTW, I own an SB12 so I have nothing against SVS.

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post #9 of 28 Old 11-15-2007, 07:06 PM
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To SVS fanboys, here is the real test data by Tom Nousaine from Sound & Vision Mag. Manufacture claimed specifics do not mean anything for subwoofers.


PSB 6i by Tom Nousaine in April 2007,

subwoofer: 20 Hz at 95 dB SPL
109 dB average SPL from 25 to 62 Hz
112 dB maximum SPL at 62 Hz
bandwidth uniformity 97%



SVS PB12 by Tom Nousaine in December 2006,

subwoofer: 20 Hz at 96 dB SPL
105 dB average SPL from 25 to 62 Hz
109.4 dB maximum SPL at 32 Hz
bandwidth uniformity 97%

At 20 Hz, PB12 has 1 db more output. From 25 to 62 Hz, 6i has 4 more db output, that is equivalent to the output of TWO PB12.
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post #10 of 28 Old 11-15-2007, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swllz View Post

To SVS fanboys, here is the real test data by Tom Nousaine from Sound & Vision Mag. Manufacture claimed specifics do not mean anything for subwoofers.


PSB 6i by Tom Nousaine in April 2007,

subwoofer: 20 Hz at 95 dB SPL
109 dB average SPL from 25 to 62 Hz
112 dB maximum SPL at 62 Hz
bandwidth uniformity 97%



SVS PB12 by Tom Nousaine in December 2006,

subwoofer: 20 Hz at 96 dB SPL
105 dB average SPL from 25 to 62 Hz
109.4 dB maximum SPL at 32 Hz
bandwidth uniformity 97%

At 20 Hz, PB12 has 1 db more output. From 25 to 62 Hz, 6i has 4 more db output, that is equivalent to the output of TWO PB12.

You know the #'s still do NOT show how each sub sounds. Never heard the PSB but I agree w/warp in that the PB12-NSD is NOT very musical. However, the op is more interested w/ht performance and as such know the PB12-NSD is superb down low.

It isn't about the product(s) YOU use but Rather how YOU use the product(s) that makes ALL of the difference!!!
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post #11 of 28 Old 11-15-2007, 07:36 PM
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A lot of people underestimate the PSB because they aren't a Subwoofer specialty company, but the 6i sounds utterly amazing for both HT & Music. I do like my HSU a little more than the PSB but IMO it's a close call. A real close call .

Making the most out of what I got.
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post #12 of 28 Old 11-15-2007, 07:41 PM
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Here is the comments for 6i by Tom Nousaine when he tested 6i in Sept 2004.


How Does It Sound?

The SubSonic 6i sounded utterly clean. Low bass had excellent depth and envelopment, allowing precise positioning of higher-frequency sounds from the main speakers. I could clearly hear the tomato squish in Chapter 15 of The Matrix Reloaded test DVD.
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post #13 of 28 Old 11-15-2007, 07:49 PM
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psb website lists the f3 of the subsonic to be 29hz

naturally, compared to other subwoofers tuned lower, it will have higher output at the higher frequencies

Mike C
MKC International
SVSound Philippine Dealer
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post #14 of 28 Old 11-15-2007, 08:11 PM
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Actually, I misread the question, I thought you were asking about the PB12NSD, but I see you really are asking PB10NSD vs PSB 6i.

I would still take the PSB 6i. It will provide a really good kick with movies as well as sound good doing it.

PSB is known to be conservative with their specs. It will have NO problem filling your room with deep pumchy bass.

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post #15 of 28 Old 11-15-2007, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

PSB is known to be conservative with their specs. It will have NO problem filling your room with deep pumchy bass.

I could not agree more.

Making the most out of what I got.
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post #16 of 28 Old 11-16-2007, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swllz View Post

Here is the comments for 6i by Tom Nousaine when he tested 6i in Sept 2004.


How Does It Sound?

The SubSonic 6i sounded utterly clean. Low bass had excellent depth and envelopment, allowing precise positioning of higher-frequency sounds from the main speakers. I could clearly hear the tomato squish in Chapter 15 of The Matrix Reloaded “test” DVD.

Now with this it does give a better idea of how it would sound. But, it still does not tell the entire story as the specific room in which it is placed also is a significant factor. For example, when you look at the #'s for both the SVS PB10-NSD and the PB12-NSD there is no doubt that the PB12 out performs the PB10. However, the PB10 was just a tad bit better musically speaking and I preferred the pitch more so than the PB12. In other words, inmho the PB10 sounded better but the PB12 had more output-especially down low. Now keep in mind this was in MY room which is about 2000 ft.^3 with an opening to a small hallway closet as well as my dining area. Others here may come to different conclusions as we all perceive sound differently. It is a good thing or else we would all own the same gear. Just think of how bad that would actually be.

It isn't about the product(s) YOU use but Rather how YOU use the product(s) that makes ALL of the difference!!!
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post #17 of 28 Old 11-16-2007, 07:54 AM
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Here is the direct copy and paste for SVS review from audioholics.com

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...and-conclusion

Performance - Music

If the SBS-01 has a weak point, it is music reproduction. This weak point is akin to the dragon in the hobbit (one itty-bitty scale missing) without the instant death thing which I always thought was pretty stupid anyhow. Most people that pick up a system like this are going to be floored by the multi-channel and two-channel music reproduction this system is capable of. This will probably be unlike anything they have heard before. But, given my experience with my own and other speaker brands, a few things immediately sprang to my mind. The first thing I played on the system was Porcupine Tree's Deadwing (I probably would have listened to In Absentia first but I lent it to a friend). As I stated in the review, this DVD is extremely demanding on a subwoofer and requires a lot of very quick and tight bass notes. There was just enough hold over on the that some of the sections got . The Blue Man Group: The Complex revealed that the same "softness" of the highs that I so enjoyed for movie recreation tended to take away some of the detail associated with the cymbal hits and guitar notes.

After finishing reading this paragraph, you still believe SVS PB10 is good for music, good for you because you own PB10. I believe any reviewer will have more listening experiences than me. I would tend to believe their comments.

By the way, all of Tom Nousaine's sub tests are done in his 7500 cubic feet living room. The data can be compared directly for all subs.
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post #18 of 28 Old 11-16-2007, 08:57 AM
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The PB10 is an amazing sub in that it hits deep and hard, and set the standard for that for a long time. But in the same price range, I've always preferred the Hsu VTF2 in the demos that I've had.

The PSB is extremely good sounding, and I don't think you would miss that much if you go with the PSB over the PB10. I don't think the PSB hits as deep (without verifying for myself with measurements), but I can tell you it can hit hard when it counts. I was considering the 6i for a long time before I bought my Mirage S12, and the PSB is every bit as good (I just got a better deal on the Mirage). I have heard bad things about the service which made me pause though...not that Mirage is that much better. SVS customer service is superior to both likely.

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post #19 of 28 Old 11-16-2007, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

The PB10 is an amazing sub in that it hits deep and hard, and set the standard for that for a long time. But in the same price range, I've always preferred the Hsu VTF2 in the demos that I've had.

The PSB is extremely good sounding, and I don't think you would miss that much if you go with the PSB over the PB10. I don't think the PSB hits as deep (without verifying for myself with measurements), but I can tell you it can hit hard when it counts. I was considering the 6i for a long time before I bought my Mirage S12, and the PSB is every bit as good (I just got a better deal on the Mirage). I have heard bad things about the service which made me pause though...not that Mirage is that much better. SVS customer service is superior to both likely.

Very well said there warp. I preferred the performance of my Mirage S12 to that of the SVS PB10-NSD and the PB12-NSD. Hence, the S12 was just as good as the PB10-NSD with ht BUT with musical applications it was NOT even close. That is, the S12 was MUCH better-lots of tight, punchy, well-articulated bass. With respect to the PB12-NSD, the S12 did NOT have as much visceral impact down real low BUT once again the S12 was MUCH more musical. Can't comment on the PSB but it sounds like it is a great sub.

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post #20 of 28 Old 11-16-2007, 05:38 PM
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I'm wishing now I went with the Abyss or the Energy 12.3 which is basically identical to the S12. I will agree the 12 NSD is fun for movies though
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post #21 of 28 Old 11-17-2007, 05:35 PM
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Both the PB12NSD and Subseries 6i are listed here. The Subsonic 6i was the previous model, but had the same results in T. Nousaine's measurement -1 db in the 20Hz region. As you can see it is no slouch.

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post #22 of 28 Old 11-20-2007, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the feedback and info. I decided to go with the PSB 6i since it seems pretty close to the SVS 10" in the low end and for the music performance as I forgot that alot of my gaming is Guitar Hero and Rock Band as that comes out today. My friend brought some cheap sony 8" sub (got free) to try out for fun and although it's performance was bad, couldn't keep up with the PSB image T45s, boomy, not tight, muddy...etc, it did some shaking as it grumbled through Braveheart. It wanted to alot, but only slightly. I figure any decent sub would blow this away and I would be happy. Thanks again all.
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post #23 of 28 Old 11-25-2007, 08:34 AM
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Congrats on your purchase, I'm sure you won't be disappointed!

I haven't tried any of the SVS subs, but have heard nothing but positive things about them. If/when I decide to go with something bigger, I would likely buy one of their big guys (I've always dreamed about having a refrigerator-sized sub!!!)

I've owned a PSB Subsonic 6i for about 3 years now - I purchased it around this time in 2004 after reading the "Sesimic Subs" test in S&V. I bought it because my Mirage BPS-150i (tight, fast sub, dual 10" inch bipolar, sealed config, excellent for music, was about $1200 in 2002) was having a lot of difficulty filling my >7000sqft great room with the long, low rumbles often found in movies.

My original intent was to buy the PSB and add it to the Mirage just to boost movies (the Mirage handled music fine). I didn't think the one sub alone would handle the room. Boy, was I wrong! The PSB not only shook the house and handled anything I threw at it, it also turned out to be fast and accurate enough for music... the Mirage sat around unused for a few months before I could bring myself to sell it.

I now have the PSB in a <5000sqft carpeted basement room, and it has no trouble at all hitting very high SPLs in that room. I watched War of the Worlds last night and it was pretty incredible.

In neither room was the sub corner-loaded... it has always sat to the right of my left front speaker.

JVC DLA-RS2, 120" Grandview motorized screen, 60" LG 50PN6500, Marantz SDR7007, Energy RC-70 mains, RC-LCR centre, RC-R side and rear surrounds, dual PSB Subsonic 6i, Sony BDP-S5100, Toshiba HD-A30, Xbox 360, Marantz CD6005, Yamaha CDC-675, APC S15 power conditioner and UPS, Monoprice interconnects and 12GA speaker wire, Palliser Media & Ikea Poang seating
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post #24 of 28 Old 04-02-2009, 09:35 PM
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Congrats on your PSB stuff. I just picked up a C40, B25s and sub 6i. I love the B25s immensely and its only been a week.

I have been frankly underwhelmed by my 6i, but in fairness my room accoustics probably play a big part in this as well as my noobness in properly setting this up and placement etc. Its been a week and it definitely sounds alot better now than it did out the box. Which leads me to a question to you guys. Did you find this sub had an extended break in period? I spent a week rerunning calibration on my AVR and toying around with the gain and level setting on my AVR.

I threw bass music and woofer tests (sine waves and sweeps) at it all week as well as electronic / dance music. And it definitely seems to produce sound now. Initially on any test frequencies below 50hz it wasn't making any sound at all nor was it giving me that subsonic 'feeling'.

Today it just sounded better than it has all week and location hasn't changed but I still think my placement and room accoustics are challenging. Can you guys provide some advice and recommended settings that you think might work? I unfortunately do not have an RTA or SPL meter and am hesitant to buy these as I am not prepared to tack on the costs (equipment plus equalization to make any corrections). I am in a condo with an open living room, den and dining room setup though the den is partitioned by a sliding glass door that could be closed. Room is akward - its all open so only lengthwise walls. Imagine 14ft x 11ft and at the far end a little open alcove shaped like a triangle adding another 5 ft. At other end is the den with the glass partition. This leaves me no option for tv and HT placement except for the lengthwise wall, which means my speakers are only 8-9 ft from me. The place is fully finished so going into walls with wiring is not an option really at this point, not that i have walls to fish a thick subwoofer cable through. So the sub is fairly limited in its placement to somewhere along the wall. Do you guys think the short distance to listener and back wall is causing the low frequency null I get. While I am noticing a bit more energy the more i use it, it still is fairly anemic at low frequencies and from everything i read about this sub it suggests this woofer can more than handle low bass. The sub itself is so solid - woofer is highly rigid and the surround is really tight. So far it seems to handle transients pretty well and blends nicely into midbass but i just expected that i would have to turn gains down on the AVR and sub to be reasonable to my neighbors (bought this as future proofing expecting i may buy a house in the next few years). I certainly did not expect to have to crank the amp gain and the level controls to hear this. Please help guys.
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post #25 of 28 Old 09-03-2014, 12:54 AM
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I'm here to update this thread a bit, except coming from someone NEEDING a musical sub and having several choices LIKE the PSB Subseries 6i now being a used, sub-$400 subwoofer (that's mainly b/c SHIPPING that monster will cost a good $60+) it's looking PRETTY GOOD next to these HT driven subwoofers like the Definitive Prosub 800/1000 or even the overpriced B&W sealed subs.

I admit, the B&W DO SEEM musical compared to many, but I attribute the sealed design to making them more musical straight off. I could go through the list of subs I've considered or demoed, but the point is, as the price approaches $499, the SVS PB-1000 (ported 10") or SVS SB-1000 (sealed and likely more musical 12") become a major consideration even for those like ME that have yet to demo one.

Point is, I was either going to order a SVS PB/SB 1000 or buy a PSB Subseries 6i. Well... I went for the 6i after reading about a guy who "thought" he was ordering a 6i for his smaller HT system and ending up moving his SVS to the smaller system and he liked the 6i for his music BETTER. While I agree and think the 6i is pretty amazing, I still say it lags a little musically.

The thing is, I suddenly don't care because, more than just pretty amazing, I think it's unbelievable! It still "pops" on the bass notes and isn't boomy or muddy like a Goldenear Forcefield 3 when playing music. I'm seriously pinching myself thinking I spent $350 and, compared to anything that is $350, this thing is EASILY twice as good. I will prepare you though, the 6i is HUGE. It's not tucking into any corner nicely.

That said, I'm now already searching for a PSB 5i little brother to go in the bedroom (or even to run as a 2nd sub the moment I have a place where I can even turn the 6i up past 40%.) Put it this was, right now it goes OFF after 9pm, b/c I fear the neighboring condos getting mad even when I put it on "1" during the day b/c "1" is already rumbling floors as a FRONT firing sub (unreal!). The ONLY thing I can say is SVS has a zero penalty, even pay the return shipping, kind of guarantee, SO ordering one and demoing it is pretty irresistible. Frankly the only reason I didn't do it was b/c I was convinced I could find used high end subwoofer for under $250 w/enough vigilance.

Turns out, those owners of the 6i know how nice they are and would rather just hold onto them unless they can still get $300 after shipping to keep. Basically you still need to think about $400 as being a minimum looking for anything that is going to make you cherish it like the best Christmas gift you got as a kid. I still say the 6i is one of them.
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post #26 of 28 Old 12-28-2014, 05:59 AM
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Hey Celestion,

Congrats on finding a used 6i - they are VERY hard to come by. I do see a decent number of 5i pop up, and the prices seem to be in the CAD200-250 range. Ten years later, I am still using my 6i as my one and only sub, in my ~3500cuft carpeted home theater room. I have been on the lookout for a second 6i in good shape, not because I NEED it, but because I WANT it! My usage is probably 70% movies/30% music, and I find this sub meets all my needs - can do the long, low rumbles (Transformers 4?!?) back to back with a tight double bass on a jazz CD.

Cheers!
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post #27 of 28 Old 12-28-2014, 02:34 PM
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This is really funny. Two hours after responding to this thread (after over 7 years), I finally came across another Subsonic 6i for sale. Supposedly this one is new in the box, put in storage from a HT build that never happen. I've made a deal with the guy, and assuming everything goes through as discussed I will finally have my second matching 6i.
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post #28 of 28 Old 01-10-2015, 04:30 PM
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Got my second 6i, like advertised brand new in the box

Re-ran Audyssey and played "Dirty Laundry" on the Eagles Farewell BD. Awesome!!

I'll be playing around with placement for the next little while...

JVC DLA-RS2, 120" Grandview motorized screen, 60" LG 50PN6500, Marantz SDR7007, Energy RC-70 mains, RC-LCR centre, RC-R side and rear surrounds, dual PSB Subsonic 6i, Sony BDP-S5100, Toshiba HD-A30, Xbox 360, Marantz CD6005, Yamaha CDC-675, APC S15 power conditioner and UPS, Monoprice interconnects and 12GA speaker wire, Palliser Media & Ikea Poang seating
For sale: Denon AVR-3310 7.1 receiver, Adcom GFA-555 and 545 mk2 power amps
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