Official Elemental Designs Subwoofer Thread - Page 418 - AVS Forum
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post #12511 of 15481 Old 01-22-2011, 04:07 PM
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please tell me you are joking
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post #12512 of 15481 Old 01-23-2011, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

What a horrible graph. My condolences.

That is a pretty good graph, ESPECIALLY since they are ported subs....
You are getting LOTS of gain down low....look it how shallow that roll-off is.
I'd KILL for that much gain down low...
(sb1 - I know you where kidding..I quoted the wrong post )
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post #12513 of 15481 Old 01-23-2011, 09:17 AM
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Thanks guys
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post #12514 of 15481 Old 01-23-2011, 09:41 AM
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Makes me think I want to give up my social life and not pay off my debt to get dual a5-350's ha
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post #12515 of 15481 Old 01-23-2011, 10:10 AM
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That's amazing, that's what I did.
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post #12516 of 15481 Old 01-23-2011, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

Makes me think I want to give up my social life and not pay off my debt to get dual a5-350's ha

I tell you what Goon...I have an A7-450 and an A7-350 WITH an sms-1...I get good response but I don't get ANY room gain down low (have over 6500^3). Certainly not the low end gain the nezf gets, which is actually pretty awesome. That's why I went with ported subs. The room can be all the difference...good or bad.
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post #12517 of 15481 Old 01-23-2011, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LF911 View Post

That's why I went with ported subs. The room can be all the difference...good or bad.

But doesn't a sealed design lend itself to better output below the tuning point of a comparable ported design? That's one reason the graph above looks confusing to me. It looks more like the output of a good sealed sub(s) rather than two ported.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #12518 of 15481 Old 01-23-2011, 01:19 PM
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what's the port tuning point? If it weren't for that 10 Hz uptick, It would look to be 14-15 Hz tuning. but if that's the case, one would think the cones would really be flapping at 10 Hz...unless there's just a bunch of room gain there
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post #12519 of 15481 Old 01-23-2011, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminbass View Post

what's the port tuning point? If it weren't for that 10 Hz uptick, It would look to be 14-15 Hz tuning. but if that's the case, one would think the cones would really be flapping at 10 Hz...unless there's just a bunch of room gain there

20hz tuning on the A5-350.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #12520 of 15481 Old 01-23-2011, 01:48 PM
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When playing the 14hz-18hz tones, I thought the door to the theater was coming off the hinges. Also this graph was made by a forum member which takes into account the radio shack spl meter's accuracy.

10.0 hz: +20.0 db
12.5 hz: +16.5 db
16.0 hz: +11.5 db
20.0 hz: + 7.5 db
25.0 hz: + 5.0 db
31.5 hz: + 3.0 db
40.0 hz: + 2.5 db
50.0 hz: + 1.5 db
63.0 hz: + 1.5 db
80.0 hz: + 1.5 db

Some critics believe that meter calibration offsets are not that useful because all Radio Shack meters are not the same. Moreover, they claim the low frequencies are usually accurate enough even with inexpensive microphones. See THIS ARTICLE and THIS ARTICLE by Ethan Winer at RealTraps. However, THIS STUDY by AudioXpress found inaccuracies between the old and new RS SPL meters.
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post #12521 of 15481 Old 01-23-2011, 02:06 PM
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I posted this in that A2-300 thread, but I didn't know how many people were actually reading that one. I just looked at the driver in my new A2-300, and the differences look more substantial than cosmetic.

The first pic is from my A2-300 that was shipped last may:





And this is the new one I got 3 weeks ago:



The magnet on the old one measures around 5 3/4" - 6", where the new one measures about 7 1/2". Also, the old basket is stamped, where the new one is cast. It's a more impressive driver now, though I have no idea how this affects performance.
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post #12522 of 15481 Old 01-23-2011, 02:12 PM
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^ I'd love to know if there's any measurable difference between the two.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #12523 of 15481 Old 01-23-2011, 02:39 PM
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5seonds, that's pretty interesting. The newer driver look's alot more substantial and more robust. I'd like to know the differences too. Did you try contacting eD about it?

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post #12524 of 15481 Old 01-23-2011, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LF911 View Post

I tell you what Goon...I have an A7-450 and an A7-350 WITH an sms-1...I get good response but I don't get ANY room gain down low (have over 6500^3). Certainly not the low end gain the nezf gets, which is actually pretty awesome. That's why I went with ported subs. The room can be all the difference...good or bad.

I am scared to look at the email from the guy I paid for the a7s-650 clone. My room is only 1700' cu BUT it is shaped so odly that there is no room gain

I am considering going with another captivator (new version) but after the bad experience I had with gen 1 I am scared.
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post #12525 of 15481 Old 01-23-2011, 04:33 PM
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DAMN!!!

Just found out the a7s-650ish subs got shipped....

My room doesn't get room gain so I'm not even going to bother buying an amp.

Once I get them someone in NJ/NY is going to be VERY happy ha. Great sub but not for my room...
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post #12526 of 15481 Old 01-23-2011, 07:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

DAMN!!!

Just found out the a7s-650ish subs got shipped....

My room doesn't get room gain so I'm not even going to bother buying an amp.

Once I get them someone in NJ/NY is going to be VERY happy ha. Great sub but not for my room...


You poor guy, seems like you are suffering from "Endless Sub Upgrade-itis"!
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post #12527 of 15481 Old 01-23-2011, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5seonds View Post

I posted this in that A2-300 thread, but I didn't know how many people were actually reading that one. I just looked at the driver in my new A2-300, and the differences look more substantial than cosmetic.

The first pic is from my A2-300 that was shipped last may:





And this is the new one I got 3 weeks ago:



The magnet on the old one measures around 5 3/4" - 6", where the new one measures about 7 1/2". Also, the old basket is stamped, where the new one is cast. It's a more impressive driver now, though I have no idea how this affects performance.

Wow the new one does look like it would be much more reliable just due to the design and increased magnet. I hope I get the new one whenever the guys at ED figure out what's up with my A2-300. I've been without it for awhile now and ED has had it for over 2 weeks and I still didn't hear anything. Makes me think I should've shipped both subs at the same time rather then one at a time. People don't realize how much life sucks without subs

Judd

US ARMY 42A2T/11C2T

another Deployment? ...you don't say
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post #12528 of 15481 Old 01-24-2011, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

DAMN!!!

Just found out the a7s-650ish subs got shipped....

My room doesn't get room gain so I'm not even going to bother buying an amp.

Once I get them someone in NJ/NY is going to be VERY happy ha. Great sub but not for my room...

Goon,
Buy the amp and try it out...you can easily resell something like a Berry 4000
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post #12529 of 15481 Old 01-24-2011, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

But doesn't a sealed design lend itself to better output below the tuning point of a comparable ported design? That's one reason the graph above looks confusing to me. It looks more like the output of a good sealed sub(s) rather than two ported.

Yes, but is it USEABLE output?
And you are right...it ABSOLUTELY looks like sealed graph....look at that rolloff, it's a nice smooth rolloff around 12db...ported subs are usallly much steeper...
My 2 ported subs drop like a freakin' rock after tuning...but again, I get absolutely no room gain.
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post #12530 of 15481 Old 01-24-2011, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Limp Fox View Post

Wow the new one does look like it would be much more reliable just due to the design and increased magnet. I hope I get the new one whenever the guys at ED figure out what's up with my A2-300. I've been without it for awhile now and ED has had it for over 2 weeks and I still didn't hear anything. Makes me think I should've shipped both subs at the same time rather then one at a time. People don't realize how much life sucks without subs

Judd

Judd,
Yeah it does suck...especially when it happens time and time again... I went through that with a velodyne....hang in dude.
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post #12531 of 15481 Old 01-24-2011, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

DAMN!!!

Just found out the a7s-650ish subs got shipped....

My room doesn't get room gain so I'm not even going to bother buying an amp.

Once I get them someone in NJ/NY is going to be VERY happy ha. Great sub but not for my room...

You should just try them. The point about sealed subs is that even if you don't have great room gain you can boost the low end or lower the upper end to flatten them out. Dual A7S-650's should have more output than dual A7S-450's.
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post #12532 of 15481 Old 01-24-2011, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcase13 View Post
This was my thinking. I have one A7S-450 and am going for another. My thinking was two 1300 watt amps was better than one and having the drivers on either side of the listening area would fill the room better. Am I mistaken? Is one A7S-650 reallly better than two properly eq'd A7S-450's on opposite sides of the room?

If that is the case I have a A7S-450 for sale!
Depends on your goals really. The single A7S-650 will have better sound quality to most, and cabinet size is much easier to fit in most rooms.

The two A7S-450's will most certainly offer more overall output.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LF911 View Post
rcase13,
I guess it all depends on what you mean by "better". The A7s-650 is going to have the the edge in sound quality...
The 2 A7s-450a are going to have the edge in the highly sought after area of headroom....plus with 2 a7s-450 you are going to be able to smooth out the freq response in your room.
I say, just to be sure and cover your butt.....sell your A7s-450 and buy 2 A7s-650. Then you want have to worry about it
Seriously though, it depends what are you looking for and budget.
I like there your mind is at Larry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcase13 View Post
The is certainly no budget for two A7s-650s. The other factors not mentioned is space. Two A7s-650s would be huge! Finally there is the wife factor.
The two A7S-450's would actually take up more floor space than the A7S-650's.

We have found more wifes accepting of a smaller footprint subwoofer. Plus it can leave more placement options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NiceguyEdy View Post
Well, I just had an accident with my sub.

I have a raging headache, and a bump on my head.

I was adjusting the gain in back and listening for any audible distortion with my ear close to the sub. Next thing I know I have this horrible pain and my vision blurred. The sub was shaking the walls so bad that my surround fell off the shelf and hit me in the head. When I finally realized what happened, I looked at my other surround and it was halfway off the shelf. Keep in mind, I live in a trailer until I can afford a house, so the walls are considerably less thick/stiff.

Wow did that hurt. I found a bit of fluttering and backed the gain down. So far everything else I run through it hasn't had any distortion. I had it turned down quite a bit before as I was tired of the sub overpowering my other speakers. This doesn't happen anymore due to my EL's.

Anyway, that's the last time I do that.
Good thing it was not an EL8.3b that fell on your head. That could have paralyzed you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post
Such a great looking room. The roof lines I love.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
DAMN!!!

Just found out the a7s-650ish subs got shipped....

My room doesn't get room gain so I'm not even going to bother buying an amp.

Once I get them someone in NJ/NY is going to be VERY happy ha. Great sub but not for my room...
I would still go ahead and get an amplifier. Shoot for around 600-650 watts per speaker and give it a try.

Even go to a local Guitar Center. That way you can return the amplifier if it is not what you are looking for.

I make this suggestion, as I know a few customers with A7S-650's who had the previous subwoofer you mention, and have been very very happy with the switch. Granted, you room sounds tricky, and your expectations of output are fairly high. But after spending the money. I would at least try it before taking a loss.
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post #12533 of 15481 Old 01-24-2011, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
You should just try them. The point about sealed subs is that even if you don't have great room gain you can boost the low end or lower the upper end to flatten them out. Dual A7S-650's should have more output than dual A7S-450's.
Not duals... Its really just a single a7s-650
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post #12534 of 15481 Old 01-24-2011, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexlindeman View Post
Depends on your goals really. The single A7S-650 will have better sound quality to most, and cabinet size is much easier to fit in most rooms.

The two A7S-450's will most certainly offer more overall output.



I like there your mind is at Larry.



The two A7S-450's would actually take up more floor space than the A7S-650's.

We have found more wifes accepting of a smaller footprint subwoofer. Plus it can leave more placement options.



Good thing it was not an EL8.3b that fell on your head. That could have paralyzed you.



Such a great looking room. The roof lines I love.



I would still go ahead and get an amplifier. Shoot for around 600-650 watts per speaker and give it a try.

Even go to a local Guitar Center. That way you can return the amplifier if it is not what you are looking for.

I make this suggestion, as I know a few customers with A7S-650's who had the previous subwoofer you mention, and have been very very happy with the switch. Granted, you room sounds tricky, and your expectations of output are fairly high. But after spending the money. I would at least try it before taking a loss.
For what I spent I doubt I'd have to take much if any loss... I'll give it some thought but my minimum output expectations are that of the gen. 1 captivator whihc was a 12" in a large bandpass with 1300w
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post #12535 of 15481 Old 01-24-2011, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
For what I spent I doubt I'd have to take much if any loss... I'll give it some thought but my minimum output expectations are that of the gen. 1 captivator whihc was a 12" in a large bandpass with 1300w
Goonstopher....I must have missed something in the past few weeks but I thought you wanted to one of the same subs MKTheater just picked up...what happend? I mean if you don't mind me asking...
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post #12536 of 15481 Old 01-24-2011, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LF911 View Post

Goonstopher....I must have missed something in the past few weeks but I thought you wanted to one of the same subs MKTheater just picked up...what happend? I mean if you don't mind me asking...

It all depends on what time of the the day you ask Goon what sub he wants.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #12537 of 15481 Old 01-24-2011, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LF911 View Post

Goonstopher....I must have missed something in the past few weeks but I thought you wanted to one of the same subs MKTheater just picked up...what happend? I mean if you don't mind me asking...

I didn't want sealed... Then I made an impulse buy... My room doesn't get room gain so it's hard
I really don't even know if I will ever hook these up. I'll prob list them once I get them and see what happens
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post #12538 of 15481 Old 01-24-2011, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

I didn't want sealed... Then I made an impulse buy... My room doesn't get room gain so it's hard
I really don't even know if I will ever hook these up. I'll prob list them once I get them and see what happens

Dude...You gotta demo them at least once!

Maybe you'll get lucky and they will be damaged...OR just maybe, you might actually, you know, like them. Like MK suggested, there's always eq'ing and LTs.
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post #12539 of 15481 Old 01-24-2011, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LF911 View Post

Dude...You gotta demo them at least once!

Maybe you'll get lucky and they will be damaged...OR just maybe, you might actually, you know, like them. Like MK suggested, there's always eq'ing and LTs.

Ha - Well I'v been through 3-4 ep2500/4000's REALLY don't want to buy another unless it is final and the non-selectable input sensitivity has me wanting a marathon amp which would be WAY above my budget. Any consumer level amp with enough power is over my budget.
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post #12540 of 15481 Old 01-24-2011, 08:41 PM
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For those of you that want a incredible demo to show off your eD sub(s)...

Try the "Rush: Snakes and Arrows" on blu-ray, track: De Slagwerker

I just got finished watching at 0db (+7 above reference for subs). It's a 5 minute or so drum solo by Neil Peart. Freaking unbelievable...

Great way to show off the tightness of your subs, but also the dynamic range of your HT. Great PQ too! That solo alone is worth the price of the blu-ray.....
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