Official Elemental Designs Subwoofer Thread - Page 480 - AVS Forum
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post #14371 of 15473 Old 05-24-2012, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

Wow, this thread has really turned in to let's get eD. One of the interesting thing about the internet is that people can hide behind usernames and not worry about slander when they make statements about a company.

How about when the cry baby eD fanboys jump on anyone who asks about amp issues, warranty issues, drivers falling apart, trying to get Alex to answer his emails, trying to get solutions to problems instead of BS excuses like Alex gives. Where are you then?

I've seen threads locked on eDs forum when someone wants answers to where is their product they purchased months ago. Or trying to get Alex to answer his email. They get locked within minutes, but not before the crazies can attack him and pretty much call him stupid and blame it on the user.

No one is hiding behind user names, its eD hiding behind non stop BS excuses for stealing peoples money and not offering a product or working product in exchange for it.

ED deserves every bit of what their getting.
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post #14372 of 15473 Old 05-24-2012, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by MarvelousMarvin View Post

Was the lawsuit the cause of the change of ownership? Was the company better before with the previous owner or just as bad?

The company was better off after he left but it seems only for a few years.

On top of him stealing patented tech from JL Audio and doing a direct copy of the W7 13".

He also tried to screw over Tang Band. TB holds a patenet pending on cone, motor tooling, basket, and spider spacer. Ben had TB make him a proto-type. TB agreed to let Ben have exclusive rights to the design if he could meet certain quota or pay for the custom tooling. Ben refused and took the Proto to another build house and started production there. Ben then claimed the design as his own and said TB stole it. When in fact Ben stole the design from TB and the design was TB's.

He did something similar to car audio maker Imagine Dynamics.
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post #14373 of 15473 Old 05-24-2012, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

The company was better off after he left but it seems only for a few years.

On top of him stealing patented tech from JL Audio and doing a direct copy of the W7 13".

He also tried to screw over Tang Band. TB holds a patenet pending on cone, motor tooling, basket, and spider spacer. Ben had TB make him a proto-type. TB agreed to let Ben have exclusive rights to the design if he could meet certain quota or pay for the custom tooling. Ben refused and took the Proto to another build house and started production there. Ben then claimed the design as his own and said TB stole it. When in fact Ben stole the design from TB and the design was TB's.

He did something similar to car audio maker Imagine Dynamics.

No wonder somebody said they surely did not have any respect and have to abandon the car audio market....
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post #14374 of 15473 Old 05-24-2012, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

Wow, this thread has really turned in to let's get eD. One of the interesting thing about the internet is that people can hide behind usernames and not worry about slander when they make statements about a company.

I believe it would be libel...

Other than that it really does look like eD has some issues with CS. Nothing wrong with saying something bad about the company when it seems to have become an issue with many users here. Go look at the TV sections and see how bad it is in there lol

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #14375 of 15473 Old 05-24-2012, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

Wow, this thread has really turned in to let's get eD. One of the interesting thing about the internet is that people can hide behind usernames and not worry about slander when they make statements about a company.

I am quite certain Alex and eD know my name. The reason for people to 'hide behind usernames' is to avoid unnecessary crap from fanboys like yourself.

Now go find yourself a life.


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post #14376 of 15473 Old 05-25-2012, 12:06 AM
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Between av423 and eD, we have two very interesting internet business models that flopped but once were highly regarded. Is it bad decision making and leadership? Is it dishonesty? What is the straw that broke the camel's back for AV432. What is it for eD?
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post #14377 of 15473 Old 05-25-2012, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by mannoiaj View Post

Between av423 and eD, we have two very interesting internet business models that flopped but once were highly regarded. Is it bad decision making and leadership? Is it dishonesty? What is the straw that broke the camel's back for AV432. What is it for eD?

Well for AV451, they were going down no matter what because of the thefts from multiple raffles that were illegally run. While the cumulative thefts were on the order of 100K, my back of the envelope calculations indicate the amounts taken were on the order of a few million dollars. Throw in the enormous drain from the defective MFW-15 amps which had an extended warranty, and AV451 was screwed. It was dishonesty on multiple levels but it lasted as long as it did because the owner was quite charismatic and had an unparalleled user base that unknowingly provided cover.

For ED, IMO, it's also driven by amp and driver failures which is coupled with, as they themselves say, an industry leading 5 year warranty. It certainly seems to me that they're looking for ways to get out of honoring that warranty. Throw in the Internet with its ability to immediately broadcast both current and historical information through searches and now one is able to obtain a more complete picture of the company.

I did a Google search using the terms, "Ben Milne" & "Tang Band", which turned up a few pages. Many of them are worth reading but aside from past issues like their sound deadening liner for vehicles, I would say their past customer service experience was one not worthy of emulation. It still isn't. I did get the impression that they might have been a larger company during the reign of Milne. I also suspect that the housing bubble collapse along with the rise in unemployment has played a role in this.

Right now many folks are in the same position as former customers of AV451. Only a few of the many hundreds if not thousands, sought to enlist the aid and services of the government with respect to Consumer Protection Laws. Those that did, were able to recoup their losses but only because they acted while there still was money. Some also were able to recoup their losses through their credit card companies. Others were either ignorant, and I don't mean that in a demeaning way, of what recourse they had. Most people just trusted and hoped that if they waited long enough their situation would be made right. After all, buying a sub is not like buying a loaf of Italian bread from a bakery. If the bread sucks, you go to a different bakery. There's not that much of a decision making thought process involved in that.

But for a sub, people agonize over it. They spend hours if not days or weeks researching, asking questions, studying, etc. There's an investment not only of time but ego. When they pull the trigger, they're trusting that their analytical skills were accurate. That they didn't make a mistake. Having to go to the Attorney General's page and fill out forms, gather documents, make phone calls now becomes a tedious and weighty proposition. It means they have to admit to themselves and possibly others, they completely misread everything. They made a mistake.

If a company is operating unethically and violating consumer laws, I can't see the point of not taking action to protect yourself because if you don't, you might as well have just burned your money.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #14378 of 15473 Old 05-25-2012, 04:25 AM
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Man, I was thinking of getting a pair of the a5s-325 to go with my (2) a7s-650...Iam just not sure anymore......?
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post #14379 of 15473 Old 05-25-2012, 11:42 AM
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It never ends with these guys.
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post #14380 of 15473 Old 05-25-2012, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

...but i'm not taking the chance on getting stuck with a 200lb paper weight if the driver and or amp goes bad. ...I wouldn't have a problem buying from them if they just honored their warranty and returned emails, its not a big deal if a driver goes bad and they replace is quickly, its the lack of caring or giving a damn about your customers.

They need to get their business straighten up or just close the doors cause they give ID brands a bad name.

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Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

I can't think of any that are or have been as bad as ED has been minus of course the one that isn't around anymore.

There is one other company that I just think offers cheap quality products at high prices, but they honor every warranty and offer top notch customer service.

Chad, what caused such a change of heart...?

According to this...
http://www.ecoustics.com/electronics...io/600386.html
you were quite high on ED at one point in time...

I'm like a beaver...
A hot little beaver...
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post #14381 of 15473 Old 05-25-2012, 05:45 PM
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I suspect a lot of people were high on them at one time. Your link was from 2009, they were just beginning to pick up speed on the downward slope. I think it began the week I bought my sub.

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post #14382 of 15473 Old 05-27-2012, 09:51 AM
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Chu Gai - you sure is pretty with them there words. Seriously, great post and summation.

Mourning the disappearance of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
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post #14383 of 15473 Old 05-28-2012, 12:07 AM
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I see nothing has changed here. I don't blame eD for not coming in here. There isn't one thing they could say that would please some of you, and in my opinion, it would make this thread worse than it already is.

For those of you slamming eD's products, you might want to mention that it is some of their products, not all, that have a less than stellar reputation. I have 2 A7s-650's. One of them is two years old, the other about a year and half. Guess what, no issues. Not one, never a single hiccup. For those of you who are not familiar, that's 4 drivers and two amps.

You know those speakers I had them make? Not a single issue there either. Everything works as it should, and sounds great.

I just wanted to share my positive experience with eD.

....and before someone try's to take apart my whole post, I'm not saying eD doesn't have issues. But I do think some people may be being unreasonable.
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post #14384 of 15473 Old 05-28-2012, 12:31 AM
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I haven't really seen all that much slamming of eD products going on here. The slamming is about their business practices and lack of customer support.
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post #14385 of 15473 Old 05-28-2012, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

I haven't really seen all that much slamming of eD products going on here. The slamming is about their business practices and lack of customer support.

Well, I agree that the business practices seem to be less than desireable. I just read the last couple pages, there were a couple posts slamming the amps. I probably should have quoted them.

Anyway, hope all is well with everyone's HT systems. I'm dealing with a bad amp from Emotiva right now as well. Yippie!
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post #14386 of 15473 Old 05-28-2012, 01:16 AM
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Things can break and parts can fail, but a company's reputation hangs on how they deal with this (or how they don't).
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post #14387 of 15473 Old 05-28-2012, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by NiceguyEdy View Post


....and before someone try's to take apart my whole post, I'm not saying eD doesn't have issues. But I do think some people may be being unreasonable.

Where do you draw the line at reason? Is it money lost? The time wasted looking for, fighting for the product support you expected at time of purchase?

I won't take apart your post - I'm happy for you and your experience, but you have no right to tell me that the $700 useless black box in my living room is not worthy of my fight, my disdain for eD.

I see people being unreasonable too - but it's the fanboys and the employees of eD, not those of us being screwed.

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post #14388 of 15473 Old 05-28-2012, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by NiceguyEdy View Post

I'm dealing with a bad amp from Emotiva right now as well. Yippie!

You'll not have an issue getting it fixed or replaced by Emotiva. I'm sure you would be doing some complaining on the Emotiva owners forum if they treated you like ED has treated its customers that have had issues.
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post #14389 of 15473 Old 05-28-2012, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by NiceguyEdy View Post

I see nothing has changed here. I don't blame eD for not coming in here. There isn't one thing they could say that would please some of you, and in my opinion, it would make this thread worse than it already is.

By not making clear and concise statements regarding Warranty-Gate and other matters, they're not doing themselves any favors. Stonewalling warranty claims, portraying that products are in stock when in fact they can't ship, etc. are serious matters with legal repercussions.

Quote:


For those of you slamming eD's products, you might want to mention that it is some of their products, not all, that have a less than stellar reputation. I have 2 A7s-650's. One of them is two years old, the other about a year and half. Guess what, no issues. Not one, never a single hiccup. For those of you who are not familiar, that's 4 drivers and two amps.

The bottom tier of subs is most affected but this is not about which lines are the most reliable, it's about how service issues are handled.

Quote:


You know those speakers I had them make? Not a single issue there either. Everything works as it should, and sounds great.

I just wanted to share my positive experience with eD.

....and before someone try's to take apart my whole post, I'm not saying eD doesn't have issues. But I do think some people may be being unreasonable.

in your opinion, what are people being unreasonable about?

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #14390 of 15473 Old 05-28-2012, 10:08 AM
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Quick story about ED. Several years ago I was shopping for THE uber subwoofer. The A7-900 was being touted as just that by one notable subwoofer aficionado. I called Ed and spoke with Alex regarding my install and he suggested a custom A7-900 that would better fit my space. I had planned a GTG that was scheduled for two months out and he (I think it was Alex) said that deadline would be difficult but not impossible. He said he could start on it in a couple of weeks and then another couple of weeks to get it shipped out so I should be good. I hadn't planned on ordering that day but it all seemed good so I pulled the trigger and gave him my CC info.

That was a Friday and over the weekend I had second thoughts (buyer's remorse) and sent them an email cancelling the order. I received no response to the email so first thing Monday I called and asked for Alex. He said that over the weekend he had already cut wood on my custom unit and that if I cancelled he would have to charge me for the wood ($200). I said I was surprise he had already started the build based upon his original estimated start date of two weeks out and that I didn't think that was fair. He didn't give an explanation for the quick start and I had no choice but to take his word for it.

Honestly, I felt it was tactic to try and keep me from cancelling the order but it only steeled my resolve to cancel. I ended up paying the $200 not to get that subwoofer (my most expensive non-purchase). The whole interaction was so weird and the attitude projected was so not customer friendly, that I decided then and there to never do any business with ED.

I don't begrudge them the $200 and if everything they said was the truth then so be it. I should not have made a spontaneous buy decision like that and I learned a relatively inexpensive lesson. I'm sorry for those of you who have had to deal with feeling slighted as a customer. It is a tough climate for all businesses these days and treating customers right is essential.

HToM

"Well, la di fricken da."!
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post #14391 of 15473 Old 05-28-2012, 10:32 AM
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If you told them you had a deadline to have the subwoofer finished and shipped out, why did he suggest you have a custom subwoofer done and they say it may not make it out in time? Why not just push you toward a finished product or one that can go out quicker?

I would have filed a claim with my CC company, sounds like a load of BS just to get some quick cash. No where on their site do they claim there is a restocking fee or fees for canceled orders.
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post #14392 of 15473 Old 05-28-2012, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

If you told them you had a deadline to have the subwoofer finished and shipped out, why did he suggest you have a custom subwoofer done and they say it may not make it out in time? Why not just push you toward a finished product or one that can go out quicker?

I would have filed a claim with my CC company, sounds like a load of BS just to get some quick cash. No where on their site do they claim there is a restocking fee or fees for canceled orders.

I had a specific location for the sub under my FP screen. The std A7-900 didn't work there so he suggested a slight modification. I thought that was kind of cool and made a quick, bad call.

If in fact he jumped on the build that weekend then I suppose a fee for cancellation of a custom order might have been justified. I did have a feeling it was a shake down but as there was some gray area it wasn't worth the hassle so I just let it go (until now ). In the end, they lost a potential customer and I lost $200. Hardly a win/win.

HToM

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post #14393 of 15473 Old 05-28-2012, 12:46 PM
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I wonder if the three day cooling off period applied here?

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #14394 of 15473 Old 05-28-2012, 01:13 PM
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Nethawk and Chu Gai,

I'm not in here to argue. I also never stated which people I felt were being unreasonable. If you have a $700 paper weight because of eD, then I WANT you to do everything you can to make it right. If you have to take it to legal action, then so be it. Because if you show eD that they can't do what so many people think they're doing, then it just makes things better for all of us.

As far as Emotiva goes, they've screwed me twice now. Once with my XPA5 when they told me I needed to buy their cables and try them before they would fix my amp, and now when I recommended Emotiva to my parents and wound up with a bum amp. I called Thursday of last week, and Emotiva said they would ship another out. Not supposed to be here until Wednesday of this week. In my opinion, Emotiva should have upgraded shipping. It was their amp that was bad, not something in my parents equipment.

Anyway, I wish you all luck. This is supposed to be a fun hobby, not a super stressful one. Good day Gents!
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post #14395 of 15473 Old 05-28-2012, 02:58 PM
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^^
Thanks, much appreciated!

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post #14396 of 15473 Old 05-28-2012, 06:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiceguyEdy View Post

Nethawk and Chu Gai,

I'm not in here to argue. I also never stated which people I felt were being unreasonable. If you have a $700 paper weight because of eD, then I WANT you to do everything you can to make it right. If you have to take it to legal action, then so be it. Because if you show eD that they can't do what so many people think they're doing, then it just makes things better for all of us.

As far as Emotiva goes, they've screwed me twice now. Once with my XPA5 when they told me I needed to buy their cables and try them before they would fix my amp, and now when I recommended Emotiva to my parents and wound up with a bum amp. I called Thursday of last week, and Emotiva said they would ship another out. Not supposed to be here until Wednesday of this week. In my opinion, Emotiva should have upgraded shipping. It was their amp that was bad, not something in my parents equipment.

Anyway, I wish you all luck. This is supposed to be a fun hobby, not a super stressful one. Good day Gents!

I've owned an XPA-5 for many years now, no problems whatsoever. Will you elaborate on your claim that Emotiva wanted you to buy their cables before fixing your amp? That sounds very odd to me.
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post #14397 of 15473 Old 05-28-2012, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiceguyEdy View Post

Nethawk and Chu Gai,

I'm not in here to argue. I also never stated which people I felt were being unreasonable. If you have a $700 paper weight because of eD, then I WANT you to do everything you can to make it right. If you have to take it to legal action, then so be it. Because if you show eD that they can't do what so many people think they're doing, then it just makes things better for all of us.

As far as Emotiva goes, they've screwed me twice now. Once with my XPA5 when they told me I needed to buy their cables and try them before they would fix my amp, and now when I recommended Emotiva to my parents and wound up with a bum amp. I called Thursday of last week, and Emotiva said they would ship another out. Not supposed to be here until Wednesday of this week. In my opinion, Emotiva should have upgraded shipping. It was their amp that was bad, not something in my parents equipment.

Anyway, I wish you all luck. This is supposed to be a fun hobby, not a super stressful one. Good day Gents!


Why would they ask you, or force you to buy their cables before they fix your amp? That doesn't sound right at all... Not saying that they didn't tell you that but clarify this for us so potential Emotiva customers may be warned as well. I maybe a novice when it comes to amps and subwoofers but I wouldn't be told that I needed to buy their cables before they fix my broken amp. I don't think a customer with your experience and knowledge of subwoofers and amps will be agreeable to such.

Post your issues on the Emotiva owners thread so members can also question the company why FORCE SOMEBODY TO BUY THEIR CABLES before they fix your amp. I will a copy and paste your post and post it at the Emotiva XPA-5 owners thread as this is something that nobody should deal with as well.

I had a case of bad Emotiva amp and from the time I mailed it to Emotiva to the time I received it fixed was a week's time. I also saw a number of customers getting their replacement/fixed amps in a week's time as well. Thursday of last week to Wednesday of this week seem's reasonable, about a week from the time you called them including the weekend and Memorial Day Holiday?

What seems to be unreasonable and should be backed by everybody is not getting your amps fixed or replaced while still under warranty. What seems to be unreasonable as well is being told you will receive your subwoofer in two to three weeks time and you end up still waiting for it three to four months later.

You may also clarify what you think is unreasonable about the issues of customers with regards to their warranty claims, delayed shipments of orders, partial shipments of orders, etc.

You are also very right that this is supposed to be a fun hobby and not a stressful one. Well those who are in the hobby are getting seriously stressed waiting for their orders, getting stressed cancelling their orders, getting stressed filling out ridiculous RMA forms, getting stressed with warranty claims and getting stressed losing time and hard earned money.
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post #14398 of 15473 Old 05-29-2012, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

I've owned an XPA-5 for many years now, no problems whatsoever. Will you elaborate on your claim that Emotiva wanted you to buy their cables before fixing your amp? That sounds very odd to me.

I have posted his concern with regards to Emotiva FORCING HIM to buy cables before they fix their amps and will follow up on their response. A customer with his knowlege and experience of amps and subwoofers shouldn't be forced or be subjected to such an insult as purchasing of "CABLES" before they fix his defective amp.

I am hoping NiceGuyEdy was able to resolve this "insult" from Emotiva, although he did post that he referred Emotiva to his parents so am hoping that it ended well.

Regarding his issue that he called Thursday of last week and he is scheduled to receive it this Wednesday, I think that sounds to be very reasonable considering it is Memorial Day Weekend although Emotiva should be aware of his concerns and maybe they can see to it that he should receive his amp on the day it was promised which is about less than a week from the time he called....

This is a fun hobby and NiceGuyEdy nor anybody should be stressed with defective amps and delayed shipments.
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post #14399 of 15473 Old 05-29-2012, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by NiceguyEdy View Post

I see nothing has changed here. I don't blame eD for not coming in here. There isn't one thing they could say that would please some of you, and in my opinion, it would make this thread worse than it already is.

For those of you slamming eD's products, you might want to mention that it is some of their products, not all, that have a less than stellar reputation. I have 2 A7s-650's. One of them is two years old, the other about a year and half. Guess what, no issues. Not one, never a single hiccup. For those of you who are not familiar, that's 4 drivers and two amps.

You know those speakers I had them make? Not a single issue there either. Everything works as it should, and sounds great.


I just wanted to share my positive experience with eD.

....and before someone try's to take apart my whole post, I'm not saying eD doesn't have issues. But I do think some people may be being unreasonable.

Those are nice speakers NiceguyEdy... but I thought you said you did have an issue with them that you have been asking them to fix... you said not a big issue, just a small issue though... but you did have an issue.
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post #14400 of 15473 Old 05-29-2012, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by NiceguyEdy View Post

I don't want you guys to think those of us with custom projects get treated special. I asked Alex back on January 21st for information on my speakers and I still haven't gotten it. I get a random text message every now and again saying he hasn't forgotten about me, but I think we all know that's not the truth.

It has now been a year that I've been asking one of them to come out and fix an issue (small issue) with one of my tower speakers, an issue that I was told by Alex would be taken care of by one of the guys that would drive out here to fix it. It was only going to take a month or two to set up a time to make it happen. When I remind him, I'm told he'll get back to me.

It's not just you guys that have issues, the whole customer service area of eD needs to be overhauled. I've spent over $9,000 with eD and I'm still waiting for a fix to my tower. I've built solid relationships with the guys at eD, but I'm getting pretty tired of being blown off.

I will add that all of my products still work 100% as they should.


Thought I read it right that you did have an issue with your tower speakers and it has been a year since you've been asking them to come out and fix it...... That seems way longer than from last Thursday to this coming Wednesday, don't you think?
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