Official Elemental Designs Subwoofer Thread - Page 517 - AVS Forum
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post #15481 of 15500 Old 07-29-2014, 08:30 PM
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post pictures of the burnt parts. or if you cant post them, PM me for an email address.
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post #15482 of 15500 Old 08-27-2014, 11:08 PM
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Seeking Advice

Daveds50, and anyone else who cares to chime in,

I bought my A3-300 back in Apr 2008. This must have been one of the original ones with the downfiring driver which I upgraded to the 13Ov2 Dual coil, and this one came with an LT 350 amp. The label "LT 350" is a sticker that is covering the original label what ever it is.

Anyway the sub is actually still working but I'm interested in avoiding the failure modes that plague this subwoofer.

It looks like my best bet is to replace the driver with the Infinity 1260W before the coils on my driver short and take out the amp. There is no indication this is happening, but I don't tax the sub like I used to.

I'm wondering if I should also have the caps replaced on the amp? Daveds50, do you still do this maintenance on this amp? Is it worth it to replace these before they fail and do more damage? I don't care to mod the box to replace it with a different amp. I'm looking for an affordable way to keep this sub going for several more years.

Thanks...

Here is a link to my post back in 2008 when I got the sub.....

Official Elemental Designs Subwoofer Thread
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post #15483 of 15500 Old 08-28-2014, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedracerII View Post
Daveds50, and anyone else who cares to chime in,

I bought my A3-300 back in Apr 2008. This must have been one of the original ones with the downfiring driver which I upgraded to the 13Ov2 Dual coil, and this one came with an LT 350 amp. The label "LT 350" is a sticker that is covering the original label what ever it is.

Anyway the sub is actually still working but I'm interested in avoiding the failure modes that plague this subwoofer.

It looks like my best bet is to replace the driver with the Infinity 1260W before the coils on my driver short and take out the amp. There is no indication this is happening, but I don't tax the sub like I used to.

I'm wondering if I should also have the caps replaced on the amp? Daveds50, do you still do this maintenance on this amp? Is it worth it to replace these before they fail and do more damage? I don't care to mod the box to replace it with a different amp. I'm looking for an affordable way to keep this sub going for several more years.

Thanks...

Here is a link to my post back in 2008 when I got the sub.....

Official Elemental Designs Subwoofer Thread
you may have been lucky and got one of the better drivers from that time. they were not like the later models that had a high failure rate. however, it is pretty aged... and drivers do not last forever. all depends on how hard on it you were for all those years.

but... know that the Infinity is much more efficient. it will be much louder on the same power.

as far as the amp goes, do a visual check on the capacitors. if any are bulging the tops, ( including the tiny ones under the heat sink ) then it may be time for a rebuild. if you wait too long, then major damage can happen, and know that a lot of the parts are no longer available for that amp.

you dont want to replace that amp for a different reason than you think... the amps at Parts Express are a downgrade from what you have... i fix those amps too.

Last edited by daveds50; 08-28-2014 at 03:52 PM.
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post #15484 of 15500 Old 08-28-2014, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveds50 View Post
you may have been lucky and got one of the better drivers from that time. they were not like the later models that had a high failure rate. however, it is pretty aged... and drivers do not last forever. all depends on how hard on it you were for all those years.

but... know that the Infinity is much more efficient. it will be much louder on the same power.

as far as the amp goes, do a visual check on the capacitors. if any are bulging the tops, ( including the tiny ones under the heat sink ) then it may be time for a rebuild. if you wait too long, then major damage can happen, and know that a lot of the parts are no longer available for that amp.

you dont want to replace that amp for a different reason than you think... the amps at Parts Express are a downgrade from what you have... i fix those amps too.
Thanks Dave for the quick reply. I removed the amp and took some pics. The smaller caps under the heat sink don't seem to show any signs of bulging. The large caps don't look bulged but I'm not sure about the discoloration at the base of the caps. Is this flux or are these leaking?

The driver was only used on Sundays to listen to church music. But seriously, I didn't drive it too hard but I think I'm going to go ahead and order the 1260W and replace it anyway. I assume there is not much salvage value to the old one.
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post #15485 of 15500 Old 08-29-2014, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedracerII View Post
Thanks Dave for the quick reply. I removed the amp and took some pics. The smaller caps under the heat sink don't seem to show any signs of bulging. The large caps don't look bulged but I'm not sure about the discoloration at the base of the caps. Is this flux or are these leaking?
looks to be in good shape. that brown at the base of the big caps is glue... Keiga made that amp, and on all their amps, they used that glue on everything, even the wire connectors. it is extremely tough glue, and is very effective anti-vibration. but usually the caps on these amps bulge before they leak. i have also seen the amps start to make noise before the caps start to go... so, keep an eye... er... ear out for any strange sound the sub starts to make. you want to catch it and fix it before it causes damage, that may not be repairable due to the lack of parts available for these.

but, it is getting to that age where you should take a look at those caps every few months. with all of the China made parts that the amp companies are using, the capacitors are of extremely low quality, and not expected to last a long time.

the oldest electronics in my shop is the shop stereo... it is a mid-line Pioneer receiver that i bought brand new in 1977. never worked on, and gets played almost every day for the last 37 years... nothing late model that i have worked on is going to be able to do that, and that includes just about every home and car audio amp made in the last 10 years that i have worked on.

gone are the days of a inexpensive amp lasting 20+ years... in fact, even a lot of fairly expensive amps these days do not last like amps used to.
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post #15486 of 15500 Old 08-30-2014, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by daveds50 View Post
looks to be in good shape. that brown at the base of the big caps is glue... Keiga made that amp, and on all their amps, they used that glue on everything, even the wire connectors. it is extremely tough glue, and is very effective anti-vibration. but usually the caps on these amps bulge before they leak. i have also seen the amps start to make noise before the caps start to go... so, keep an eye... er... ear out for any strange sound the sub starts to make. you want to catch it and fix it before it causes damage, that may not be repairable due to the lack of parts available for these.

but, it is getting to that age where you should take a look at those caps every few months. with all of the China made parts that the amp companies are using, the capacitors are of extremely low quality, and not expected to last a long time.

the oldest electronics in my shop is the shop stereo... it is a mid-line Pioneer receiver that i bought brand new in 1977. never worked on, and gets played almost every day for the last 37 years... nothing late model that i have worked on is going to be able to do that, and that includes just about every home and car audio amp made in the last 10 years that i have worked on.

gone are the days of a inexpensive amp lasting 20+ years... in fact, even a lot of fairly expensive amps these days do not last like amps used to.
They certainly don't make anything like they used to, otherwise we'd never buy a new one. Just like new appliances, they won't last long and are expensive to replace.

Thanks for the help. My new driver will arrive next week and I'll re-install the amp and get it tuned back into my system.

Is the failure mode on the amp dangerous to the driver? Or will I just need to replace the amp someday? Looks like the Keiga KG5230 is the newer generic drop in replacement for the LT/350. Looks like the easiest option but there are several others in this thread if this existing amp can't be fixed.

http://www.keiga.com.tw/products_kg5230.html

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...5230-300-watt/
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post #15487 of 15500 Old 08-31-2014, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedracerII View Post
Is the failure mode on the amp dangerous to the driver? Or will I just need to replace the amp someday? Looks like the Keiga KG5230 is the newer generic drop in replacement for the LT/350. Looks like the easiest option but there are several others in this thread if this existing amp can't be fixed.
usually, it is the driver that takes the amp out, not the other way around. however, there are rare cases where the amp shorts the output and sends DC to the driver and burns the voice coil. but that is not common.

the new Kiega is not like the old one. they got cheaper with lower quality, just like all the amps people replace with. Parts Express, Madisound, MCM, etc, all sell real low end Chinese amps with the cheapest parts known to man... even the cheap external amps are horrible. i have worked on many of the external amps, and one comes to mind... lets just say it weighs 6 lbs for "3000 Watts", and that has to be one of the worse amps i have ever worked on.

bottom line, you get exactly what you pay for, and quality is not cheap. that said, i have cheaped out on electronics on occasion too... but, i expect it not to last, and know i will have to repair or replace in 5 years or less.
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post #15488 of 15500 Old 09-06-2014, 12:00 AM
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Infinity 1260W Replacement

Well I got my replacement driver on Thursday and had a chance to install it tonight. It was a pretty easy swap out. The hardest part was moving the massive subwoofer out of the corner of the room to I could work on it. Gave me a chance to vacuum out the years of dead bugs underneath! The old ED upgraded 12" driver was still working when I removed mine, but I just wanted to replace it and give the subwoofer a new lease on life. The ED driver looked pretty well made. It is beefier than the Infinity. It was stuck into the bed liner finish that ED put on the box so a pry bar was needed to break it loose. The Infinity fit like a glove in the opening. But the holes didn't seem to be exactly the same, so I rotated it slightly and match drilled some pilot holes and put the old screws back in. Infinity gives you a gasket which I used and the driver went in pretty easily. Just make sure you drill a pilot hole and give yourself room so that the head of the screw will fit inside the up turned metal lip around the driver. Also, I used an impact driver to run the screws down but DONT use this to seat them. You can tear out the MDF too easily. Do the final tightening by hand so you can feel the screw set. I went around a few times to make sure the gasket was compressed.

The Infinity has 1/4 inch (or maybe 5 mm?) spade connectors so I crimped on the appropriate female end on the wires from the amp.

When I re-powered the subwoofer with the same amp settings as the ED driver, I could tell right away this driver is more efficient than the ED. I still need to run the calibration on my receiver, but I think this driver is a pretty nice replacement to the ED. Simple, affordable, available. The whole thing cost me $61. Not bad.

And thanks Daveds50 for your sound advice!
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This message is for davesd50 I don't have enough posts to PM you. I troll around and read a lot on these forums but don't post, I guess its time to start.
I see you are the man to come to with elemental designs amp problems. I have two A5-350s with Lt-550 amps. They have worked great for a long time but one amp gets thumps turning on and off recently. I looked at the amp and found a few bad caps. I wonder if you had an amp schematic you would be willing to share so I can identify the specs of some caps on my boards that seem to be dried out. The places on the board are C17, L3 and L4. I also read that you have identified problems with the power supply filter caps. Would you mind sharing the spots on the board where they would be so I can test them. I will also be changing out the drivers like you recommend. If you can help me great and I really appreciate it. If not thank you for your time. Thanks again - Dave
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post #15490 of 15500 Old 09-07-2014, 02:21 PM
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Sorry the places on the board would be L3,L4,L5 there don't seem to be specs on those caps but they are very similar in size tot he 47uf50v caps next to it. Thanks again if you could help - Dave
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post #15491 of 15500 Old 09-07-2014, 03:04 PM
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i do not have schematics... i have no need for them. the only place amplifier schematics are, is in my brain... and i have not figured out how to email those yet.

just replace all the caps with low ESR caps of the same value. if you are not a high volume parts buyer, it can get pretty expensive to do though.


SpeedracerII, yeah... pretty impressive performance for a $60 speaker. from our experience with darn near everything out there, you can beat it, but it will cost 4 times the price. just dont be fooled by the looks of the eD speakers... they look beefy, but are very poor performing speaker. all of my eD's went to the recycling center. unfortunately, that is the case with a lot of speakers out there. make it look good and beefy, and people will buy it.
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post #15492 of 15500 Old 09-07-2014, 03:39 PM
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Anyone know what driver would a good replacement for the stock A7-450?
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post #15493 of 15500 Old 09-07-2014, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveds50 View Post
SpeedracerII, yeah... pretty impressive performance for a $60 speaker. from our experience with darn near everything out there, you can beat it, but it will cost 4 times the price. just dont be fooled by the looks of the eD speakers... they look beefy, but are very poor performing speaker. all of my eD's went to the recycling center. unfortunately, that is the case with a lot of speakers out there. make it look good and beefy, and people will buy it.
Hi Dave, I have 2 A2-300 ED subs. I got them about six years ago and they have been working fine all that time. They have the silver drivers with the ED logo on them. Are you saying that those drivers are of lesser quality than the Infinity's as well? Or are you only talking about the later drivers ED started using? If I'm heading for trouble using these drivers I would rather replace them now rather than later.
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post #15494 of 15500 Old 09-07-2014, 08:55 PM
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Anyone know what driver would a good replacement for the stock A7-450?
that, i don't know... that's because it seems that the 18 inch drivers that they used seemed to be of much better quality than the other drivers eD used. but the reason i don't know, is because i only know of one person that has had to replace their 18... and i have no idea what he replaced it with. generally, those, along with the LT1300 amps, are very reliable.
is your driver bad and that is why you need to replace it ?

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Originally Posted by Walternate View Post
Hi Dave, I have 2 A2-300 ED subs. I got them about six years ago and they have been working fine all that time. They have the silver drivers with the ED logo on them. Are you saying that those drivers are of lesser quality than the Infinity's as well? Or are you only talking about the later drivers ED started using? If I'm heading for trouble using these drivers I would rather replace them now rather than later.
that, i dont know either. while i did have one of those, i only used it for around a week, and gave it to someone who needed to replace their driver. he used it for about two weeks, and gave it to someone else. i dont know what happened to it after that.

one thing i do know for sure, is the Infinity is much more efficient.
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post #15495 of 15500 Old 09-07-2014, 09:53 PM
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that, i don't know... that's because it seems that the 18 inch drivers that they used seemed to be of much better quality than the other drivers eD used. but the reason i don't know, is because i only know of one person that has had to replace their 18... and i have no idea what he replaced it with. generally, those, along with the LT1300 amps, are very reliable.
is your driver bad and that is why you need to replace it?
No, it's been rock solid. Was just thinking long term, if I ever needed to replace it, how much if a pain it would be to find one.
I think I may have an air leak on the seal of mine though. I am going to reseat it. Should I add a layer of silicon between the enclosure lip and driver? Do I need to refill the old screw holes with anything?
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post #15496 of 15500 Old 09-09-2014, 02:47 PM
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Thanks for the advice Dave will do...

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveds50 View Post
i do not have schematics... i have no need for them. the only place amplifier schematics are, is in my brain... and i have not figured out how to email those yet.

just replace all the caps with low ESR caps of the same value. if you are not a high volume parts buyer, it can get pretty expensive to do though.


SpeedracerII, yeah... pretty impressive performance for a $60 speaker. from our experience with darn near everything out there, you can beat it, but it will cost 4 times the price. just dont be fooled by the looks of the eD speakers... they look beefy, but are very poor performing speaker. all of my eD's went to the recycling center. unfortunately, that is the case with a lot of speakers out there. make it look good and beefy, and people will buy it.
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post #15497 of 15500 Old 09-15-2014, 01:26 PM
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Hi guys - got an issue here that would be funny if it wasn't going to cost so much money

My son likes to shove things down the port of my eD sub. I'm sure you can already tell where this is going. Today I was watching a movie, and the sub started spazzing out - VERY loud electronic popping/fuzzing noises. Stopped the movie right away, and immediately noticed a burnt smell and smoke coming from the sub's port. At this point I already knew what was going on. Pulled out the port, and sure enough, one of my son's sippy cups was sitting on one of the interior "ledges" in the cabinet, right above the control board/amp. Water had leaked onto the board and fried some of the components. This is an A2-300 (says LT 200 on the rear plate). The ironic part is that I was at Home Depot just last week trying to find some kind of screen to put over the port, but couldn't find anything suitable.

So - what's my best option here? Do I try to replace the board? With eD out of business, is that even possible? The cabinet and driver are still fine. I'd appreciate any advice - thanks!
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post #15498 of 15500 Old 09-18-2014, 02:09 PM
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Do you guys think there's a market for the driver if I decide to buy a new sub?
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post #15499 of 15500 Old Yesterday, 12:29 AM
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Hi guys - got an issue here that would be funny if it wasn't going to cost so much money

My son likes to shove things down the port of my eD sub. I'm sure you can already tell where this is going. Today I was watching a movie, and the sub started spazzing out - VERY loud electronic popping/fuzzing noises. Stopped the movie right away, and immediately noticed a burnt smell and smoke coming from the sub's port. At this point I already knew what was going on. Pulled out the port, and sure enough, one of my son's sippy cups was sitting on one of the interior "ledges" in the cabinet, right above the control board/amp. Water had leaked onto the board and fried some of the components. This is an A2-300 (says LT 200 on the rear plate). The ironic part is that I was at Home Depot just last week trying to find some kind of screen to put over the port, but couldn't find anything suitable.

So - what's my best option here? Do I try to replace the board? With eD out of business, is that even possible? The cabinet and driver are still fine. I'd appreciate any advice - thanks!
hah ha ! sorry, dont mean to laugh at your misfortune, but it really reminded me of when my son stuffed my port with Hot Wheel cars. all the rattling made me sure that i had blown the driver apart.

there are a couple things that make electronics un-fixable... one is burned beyond jumper repair, and the other is liquid... i could take a look... but there is a chance that nothing can be done about it.
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post #15500 of 15500 Old Yesterday, 09:00 AM
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Been a while since I've been on here, but wanted to give mad props to Dave. He fixed my LT300 amp and recommended the Infinity driver as a replacement. MEGA difference! That Infinity sounds cleaner, hits lower and I had to drop the amp's gain to match the same pink noise level during calibration. Kudos to Dave and I'm glad you're still doing work. May still send you my old amp from the Paradigm PS1000 to fix.

With that, I'm debating on building a second sub that mimics the eD cabinet. Same driver is going to be used, so it's just a matter of reverse-engineering the cabinet and figuring out what amp to use. Anyone happen to have a now defunct eD A3-250 sub cabinet that they would like to part with? Would make one step of the process a lot easier. And Dave, do you have a recommendation on an equivalent amp to use to power my project?

"Can I refill your eggnog, Eddie? Drive you out to the middle of nowhere and leave you for dead?"

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