Official Elemental Designs Subwoofer Thread - Page 518 - AVS Forum
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post #15511 of 15539 Old 11-03-2014, 08:11 PM
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Mine was actually a LOT easier. I tilted it back and rested it on top of a plush pillow, removed the screws, put a flathead screw driver between the seal and cabinet at all four points of the circumference, pryed a little then leaned the enclosure forward. The driver "cracked" away from the enclosure and slid right into my hand. I even did it alone! Thanks for the help guys!
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post #15512 of 15539 Old 11-03-2014, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laugsbach View Post
I hope it works but dominguez1 and rcase13 might be the norm...



I use number 10 SPAX screws for my builds...
Do you use 10x3?
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post #15513 of 15539 Old 11-04-2014, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by the_abbot View Post
Do you use 10x3?
I used 10 x 1.5"...
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post #15514 of 15539 Old 11-04-2014, 04:01 PM
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I have an a2-300 and after catching up on the last several pages of this thread, I'm considering replacing the driver with the Infinity 1260. But before I do that, I have a couple concerns I was hoping to get advice on first.

For as long I've had this sub, I've always had trouble getting the auto-on to work. It seems like I have to crank the volume on my receiver (Denon 1910) fairly high to get the sub to turn on. I've tried using it with and without a Y-splitter and it didn't seem to make much difference.

I also think the sub or something in the enclosure has started to rattle. Not all the time, but on some of the harder bass hits, you can hear it.

I'm getting another receiver, speakers and sub for another room in my home, and was wondering if moving this sub to the room with new receiver might have any effect on the auto-on issue (I remember reading of several people having auto-on issues with the Denon receivers. My new one might be a Harman.)

Any thoughts?

Last edited by maroonsloth; 11-06-2014 at 07:13 AM.
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post #15515 of 15539 Old 11-04-2014, 04:51 PM
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What are the crossover settings for your speakers? Trying to figure out how much content you are sending to the sub.

As for rattle you could open it up and look. Once I thought something was loose in mine but turned out it was just the feet or spikes rattling against the floor on loud passes.
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post #15516 of 15539 Old 11-05-2014, 06:27 AM
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Crossover is set at 80 Hz. LPF for LFE is at 120 Hz.
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post #15517 of 15539 Old 11-10-2014, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by maroonsloth View Post
Crossover is set at 80 Hz. LPF for LFE is at 120 Hz.
I wish I was able to PM @daveds50 but it won't let me since I don't have enough posts. Anyone with thoughts on the auto-on issue?
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post #15518 of 15539 Old 11-10-2014, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by maroonsloth View Post
I wish I was able to PM @daveds50 but it won't let me since I don't have enough posts. Anyone with thoughts on the auto-on issue?
What is the level of the subwoofer in your receiver? Is it very negative like -10 or something vs something near 0 or on the positive side?
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post #15519 of 15539 Old 11-10-2014, 10:46 AM
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What is the level of the subwoofer in your receiver? Is it very negative like -10 or something vs something near 0 or on the positive side?
It's set at 0 on the receiver.
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post #15520 of 15539 Old 11-10-2014, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by maroonsloth View Post
It's set at 0 on the receiver.
Do you have a feel for what level on the volume dial you have to turn it up to in order for the sub to turn on? Music with bass I would think it would come on rather easily. But for normal TV if there is not much bass it may not come on until needed.

Or a good test is turn on the test tones of your AVR and see if it comes on. Mine are fixed at 75db, not sure if yours are that way or are impacted by the volume dial.
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post #15521 of 15539 Old 11-10-2014, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonsloth View Post
I wish I was able to PM @daveds50 but it won't let me since I don't have enough posts. Anyone with thoughts on the auto-on issue?
right here ! actually, i have been very busy with circuit design contracts. the car audio amp industry is trying to kill me...

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Originally Posted by maroonsloth View Post
It's set at 0 on the receiver.
turn the level up on the receiver, and down to compensate on the sub plate amp.

the amp is looking for a certain level signal voltage to tell it to turn on. likely your receiver is below that level at low volumes. it will not turn on until that voltage level is reached.

on my personal sub amps, i do not use the auto-on. i do not like the power supply powered up at all times in standby. my amps tend to last a whole lot longer than people usually experience.
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post #15522 of 15539 Old 11-10-2014, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by maroonsloth View Post

I also think the sub or something in the enclosure has started to rattle. Not all the time, but on some of the harder bass hits, you can hear it.
forgot to address this. your driver may be coming apart. from my experience with eD drivers, the glue started cracking that holds it together when i started being hard on it. it rattled, pop, crackle, you name it, it made more strange sounds than our last beater car did before we junked it. yours is likely at that age when it is done anyway. drivers do not last forever, no matter what brand/model/etc.

also, check the screws and parts on the amp. the years of vibrations of a sub can loosen them up. no internal amp from any brand is immune to this.
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post #15523 of 15539 Old 11-26-2014, 08:54 AM
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daveds50 just did some work on my LT/1300 amp. Service was quick, reasonable, and knowledgeable. This amp has a really good power transformer and is worth saving, if you have problems.
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post #15524 of 15539 Old 11-26-2014, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
daveds50 just did some work on my LT/1300 amp. Service was quick, reasonable, and knowledgeable. This amp has a really good power transformer and is worth saving, if you have problems.
When I bought my 18s, Alex was going to put two Dayton 1000 watt amps in them. He did tell me he had two LT1300s going for repair if I wanted to wait, which I did. Have had these amps for going on 3 years without a single issue, hiccup, etc..


Im assuming Dave could have been the one that originally fixed them. just a guess because Alex stated their was a guy that did it for them.
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post #15525 of 15539 Old 11-26-2014, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by nezff View Post
When I bought my 18s, Alex was going to put two Dayton 1000 watt amps in them. He did tell me he had two LT1300s going for repair if I wanted to wait, which I did. Have had these amps for going on 3 years without a single issue, hiccup, etc..


Im assuming Dave could have been the one that originally fixed them. just a guess because Alex stated their was a guy that did it for them.
Nezff! How's it going dude? Long time no hear from! My 450 is still shaking the house foundation as well.
Good to hear from you man!
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post #15526 of 15539 Old 11-26-2014, 06:10 PM
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whats up bro. haven't been on here in quite a while. good to hear from you.
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post #15527 of 15539 Old 11-28-2014, 02:10 PM
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Question Replace amp vs. fix amp vs. replace A3-300 altogether?

Long time reader, first time poster, as they say.

I have a replace vs. fix question for an ED A3-300 (ported enclosure, 12" driver, LT.300 amp)

I've had it for several years (pre-bankruptcy, obviously), and I've already had to replace the driver and amp, which I think is ridiculous. It's the newer forward-firing design, which seems to be better, so maybe it's worth keeping. I replaced the original driver with a Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4 driver, which seemed to be an upgrade (specs at daytonaudio.com. It works great. The amp was replaced from ED with a refurbished LT.300 amp, I believe. The label on the inside says type 092000, date 100613, serial 00137. No labels on the outside other than ED's logo, so I'm not positive it's an LT.300, but the internals looked the same when I got it.

Now my replacement ED amp has blown, putting out a lovely continuous hum when it's powered on . I hooked up a multimeter, and it's outputting a constant 85V at near zero ohms to the driver. This happened while listening to music, so the transition from working to not working was obvious.

My question: is this sub worth fixing again, whether I attempt to fix the amp or replace just it or should I throw the entire thing out and buy something new? Here seem to be my options.
* It seems Dave will fix the amp for something like $60 based on previous posts (not a quote from Dave!), assuming the amp is fixable and worth fixing. Inspection of the amp shows nothing obvious (bulging caps, black ash, etc.). From what I read, this is not a good amp, so fixing it is a questionable proposition for me.
* A new Keiga KG5230 amp costs $225 at madisoundspeakerstore.com. This would be new crap for old crap, IMHO.
* A plate amp upgrade to something like a Dayton SPA500, which may better fit the upgraded driver. The minimal difference in price ($250 vs. $225) means this seems to be the best option, and as a bonus the cutout is the same size. Details for this amp are at daytonaudio.com
* A new, similar sub will likely run me over $500. Note I am in an apartment with a large great room (26'x14', not including a small attached kitchen and hallway) surrounded by glass on 2 sides with hardwood floors, so it is an acoustic nightmare (sub goes in the corner with all the glass). While probably considered too small, the ED put out enough bass to keep me happy. Actually, I had to set the sub's amp volume near zero just to get the stereo amp up to -5dB to use the Auto On feature reliably (which I agree with Dave is probably not a good idea, but I can't run another cord the 25' to the receiver without creating serious eye sores).

Although the sub internals have been a nightmare, the enclosure seems to be extremely well constructed--high density, 0.75" particle board with significant internal bracing--so perhaps upgrading the amp gives me the equivalent of a DIY sub. Or perhaps I'm too ignorant to know what I'm talking about.

Other details, in case they're important: Onkyo TX-SR707 stereo amp and Boston VS240 fronts. The new place's layout doesn't allow me to use the Boston center or rears, which sucks. I mostly listen to 80's music, top 40's, and EDM (don't judge) and watch hard-punching movies like Transformers and Terminator whenever I can (which isn't that often, since I'm married .

Any thoughts or tips?
Adv(thanks)ance!
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post #15528 of 15539 Old 11-29-2014, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by the_abbot View Post
Mine was actually a LOT easier. I tilted it back and rested it on top of a plush pillow, removed the screws, put a flathead screw driver between the seal and cabinet at all four points of the circumference, pryed a little then leaned the enclosure forward. The driver "cracked" away from the enclosure and slid right into my hand. I even did it alone! Thanks for the help guys!
When I replaced my ED driver, I
- ran a box cutter (or other sharp knife) along the edge in case the paint/coating adhered to the driver
- then used a chisel to get under the lip and work several parts off a little (just enough to crack the glue)
- propped the sub on blocks above a rug so the driver had ~3" to fall
- pushed the driver off from the inside (removing the amp first, naturally)

It took a lot of effort to push the driver off due to their sealant and the internal bracing (I actually had to use a small hammer as a lever), but this left no chisel marks on the wood enclosure in case I ever wanted to take off the cover and bare the driver to the world.

---
Onkyo TX-SR707, Boston VS240*2+VS325C, ED A3-300, LG 60PB6650
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post #15529 of 15539 Old 11-29-2014, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyjerm View Post
Now my replacement ED amp has blown, putting out a lovely continuous hum when it's powered on . I hooked up a multimeter, and it's outputting a constant 85V at near zero ohms to the driver. This happened while listening to music, so the transition from working to not working was obvious.
there is a very good chance that the voice coils of your driver are melted... check it with a multimeter. somewhere near 4 ohms. if you measure significantly lower, you know why the amp blew up. if the driver is bad, any amp you hook up to it, will blow up also. i am familiar with that driver... we toasted one too.

careful if you are going to replace the amp. all the replacement plate amps ( including the cheap external amps ) are made in China. unless you spend some serious cash, it is very easy to downgrade and not know it. in fact, even if you buy a new sub, you may be downgrading. i've worked on them all, and nothing cheap has been in the least impressive. nothing seems to be made anymore to last more than 2-3 years... you do get what you pay for.
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post #15530 of 15539 Old 11-29-2014, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by daveds50 View Post
there is a very good chance that the voice coils of your driver are melted... check it with a multimeter. somewhere near 4 ohms. if you measure significantly lower, you know why the amp blew up. if the driver is bad, any amp you hook up to it, will blow up also. i am familiar with that driver... we toasted one too.

careful if you are going to replace the amp. all the replacement plate amps ( including the cheap external amps ) are made in China. unless you spend some serious cash, it is very easy to downgrade and not know it. in fact, even if you buy a new sub, you may be downgrading. i've worked on them all, and nothing cheap has been in the least impressive. nothing seems to be made anymore to last more than 2-3 years... you do get what you pay for.
Dave,
Thanks for the quick response and hope you had a happy Thanksgiving. The driver measures 3.6-3.7 ohms, which I assume is close enough to 4. I understand that doesn't mean the driver isn't bad; it just means the driver is not definitely bad.

Given the above and my desire to salvage this sub (even if it's just the enclosure), is my next best step to repair the amp or replace it? Since I've had two of these ED amps fail in what I would consider a short time (<3 years), is it reasonable to assume the amp design itself is bad, so a repair will only delay another failure (soon)? If replace, what makes/models and where to get them, since the oft-mentioned parts-express.com, etc. sites are full of junk, if I read you correctly? I'm more confused than when I started. Could you give me a reasonable set of options at this point, since all the choices I listed seem to be bad ones? I'm happy to make this worth your while somehow, since it seems this is what you do for a living. Feel free to PM me, if you'd like.

Adv(thanks)ance.

---
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post #15531 of 15539 Old 11-29-2014, 04:27 PM
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in fact, even if you buy a new sub, you may be downgrading. i've worked on them all, and nothing cheap has been in the least impressive. nothing seems to be made anymore to last more than 2-3 years... you do get what you pay for.
Would you mind quantifying what you mean by "cheap"? When I bought the ED A3-300, I thought it was mid-range (for consumer home theater), which another part of this site is listing as $300-800 for a sub. Do I need to be around $1000 to get reasonable quality, i.e., have an expectation to not have a failure in 5-10 years, and any discussion about repairing my sub is about polishing a turd? I'm not in the best cash position now to shoot for the moon, but I also don't want to keep throwing good money after bad.

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post #15532 of 15539 Old 11-29-2014, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by skyjerm View Post
Dave,
is it reasonable to assume the amp design itself is bad, so a repair will only delay another failure (soon)? If replace, what makes/models and where to get them, since the oft-mentioned parts-express.com, etc. sites are full of junk, if I read you correctly?
i would not say the design is bad... i have been using an LT300 for a long time on my computer sound system with an Infinity 8 inch, and it gets abused just about every day. but the amp has also been un-Chinaized, with quality parts. i'm also using eD amps on my HT system with no problems, but then again, i refuse to use eD drivers. most of the failures that come here for repair, can be tracked down to the driver by what parts of the amp got taken out.

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Would you mind quantifying what you mean by "cheap"?
cheap, as not in not only price, but in quality. the problem is that people do not know what is made low quality anymore. lets face it... ever since audio companies have been going to China for their products, we have not had much in the way of top quality products. i see it here when people talk up a product that i am familiar with. i know it's junk... but they are happy with it... at least for the next year or two. problem is some companies sell this garbage for a lot of money... so you cant go by price to define quality.

example of this, is my main business is private contract circuit design, mostly in the car audio amplifier world. i just finished a great design, and built the prototype from scratch with the best parts i can buy. from past history, the company that i did this for, gets their stuff built in China. like the past 4 years, the production units came back as garbage. but... people on car audio forums rave about them like it's the best thing in the world. they will be happy for the next couple of years until they dont work anymore. it's not like the designs i did 20 years ago that were built in the USA that most of them are still working today.

but that is what it's all about. the designs are fine, then built with the worst and cheapest parts in the world. you cant expect them to last very long, yet, people do.

the problem is, we have been conditioned to expect the low price we pay for electronics. we expect that $200 plate amp to last like electronics from the past. not going to happen. buy cheap, and enjoy for a couple of years, and then replace. watch the Black Friday shoppers that fought at Walmart for that $119 40" TV... their TV's will be dead in a year. then i'll buy them for pennies on the dollar, replace the Chinese parts, and add it to the other 11 TV's in my house that were bought the same way. my personal TV's that i modified, will still be running 20 years from now.

making subwoofers is easy if you are good with woodworking. buy cheap amp and driver, make a cabinet. i've been doing this for at least 20 years, and pretty much no company can compete with or sell some of the ones i have had. ( one weighed 1150 lbs ) the thing about that is, business owners realize this, and that is why you see so many small companies come and go all the time. buy cheap stuff, ( like eD and Epik did ) build a nice cabinet, and sell for big profit. close doors when everything starts to fail.

another problem, is it is not only the ID companies doing this... some of the big brands are doing it too. the Bash amp in my Klipsch that is in my garage has blown up 4 times... but i think the last modifications may have fixed it.

anyway, if you want a good amp that will last, look for a Bang and Olufsen ICE based amp. you are going to pay quite a bit for it, but it's worth it. eD's LT1300 was one of them, and you dont see a lot of complaints in this thread unless the cheap Philippines made drivers took them out. i dont know what amps use B&O ICE, as i dont pay attention to what sub or amp it is... only the ICE module itself.

other than that, all i see is garbage from the new breed of cheap amps. ( including the cheap external amps )
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post #15533 of 15539 Old 11-29-2014, 06:54 PM
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i would not say the design is bad... [...], all i see is garbage from the new breed of cheap amps. ( including the cheap external amps )
Ah, thanks, as I thought: good designs poorly manufactured. I see that in my field, too (premium digital video). Since I doubt any of the brands within my current reach build anywhere except China and I'm wedded to a plate amp (I know, another bad choice, but putting such a massive black box in the living room already used up all my bargaining chips), it seems I am stuck rolling the dice on a disposable amp, whether the one I have or a new one.

Just so I have all the info, would you PM me a ballpark estimate to repair this amp along with any suggested mods for it? I may also want a backup even if I buy something newer.

Thanks again.

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Last edited by skyjerm; 11-29-2014 at 06:55 PM. Reason: remove lengthy quote
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post #15534 of 15539 Old 11-30-2014, 01:06 PM
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Just so I have all the info, would you PM me a ballpark estimate to repair this amp along with any suggested mods for it? I may also want a backup even if I buy something newer.
Dave, got your PM and it's a deal. Please PM me with all the details. The site won't let me PM folks yet--my penalty for just being a lookie-lou all these years.

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post #15535 of 15539 Old 11-30-2014, 04:42 PM
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Man, I always wanted an ED sub. Sorry to hear they went out of business.
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post #15536 of 15539 Old 12-05-2014, 01:33 PM
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Quick question guys. Does the LT amps take a power cable that has three prongs (two blade and one rounded prong), or two prongs (blades) at the end that plugs into the power outlet?
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post #15537 of 15539 Old 12-06-2014, 11:10 AM
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Quick question guys. Does the LT amps take a power cable that has three prongs (two blade and one rounded prong), or two prongs (blades) at the end that plugs into the power outlet?
LT/1300 takes the ungrounded 2-prong to eliminate potential for ground loops
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post #15538 of 15539 Old 12-06-2014, 01:45 PM
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I would not repair any ED sub.
Glad I sold my A7-S450 to be honest
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I've had great luck with their products but I'm just running the drivers, not the complete sub kit. I've been running the 13ov.2, 19ov.2's and a 13av.2.
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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Subwoofers , Elemental Designs



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