New Hsu Sub Flat To 10Hz!!! - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers > New Hsu Sub Flat To 10Hz!!!
Jesse S's Avatar Jesse S 12:07 PM 01-12-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Yeh, and to be able to bring the 2 subs in around a grand would be quite a coup. There wouldn't be a sub out now that could match them.

Bill

I would imagine the 10-50hz sub will be at least $1k itself, probably more like $1500. You need big drivers with lots of excursion to get the deep stuff.

The only thing I don't like about the MBM is that it runs mono up to 150hz. A pair could retain stereo down to 50hz, which is a pretty good setup. Someone bring a pair over so I can test them

jonnyozero3's Avatar jonnyozero3 12:29 PM 01-12-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse S View Post

I would imagine the 10-50hz sub will be at least $1k itself, probably more like $1500. You need big drivers with lots of excursion to get the deep stuff.

The only thing I don't like about the MBM is that it runs mono up to 150hz. A pair could retain stereo down to 50hz, which is a pretty good setup. Someone bring a pair over so I can test them

Why would you use the MBM above, say 80 Hz, unless your main speakers are *really* small?

The idea of retaining stereo down to 50 Hz is nice, although then you'd probably want them placed up on the front stage by the mains, rather than near field, to take advantage of whatever stereo imaging you're gaining. I think that would probably work well, but you'd have a complicated signal path.

I have dual UFW-10's running in stereo in a secondary setup, and while it's fun, there are a lot of wires back there
Jesse S's Avatar Jesse S 12:09 AM 01-13-2008
I thought my mid-bass was good until I heard my friend's pair of dipole bass arrays. Six 12" drivers in each just for 60-200hz.

So now of course I must have the same.
jonnyozero3's Avatar jonnyozero3 07:27 AM 01-13-2008
ooooh....nice Now I see what you're getting at. very cool.
noah katz's Avatar noah katz 12:52 PM 01-13-2008
"There is no reason a sub that plays to 10hz can't do 50 to 80 as well."

There is if it's a bandpass design.

Which isn't to say I have any reason to think that it is.
Pete_Hsu's Avatar Pete_Hsu 09:52 PM 01-18-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Robert View Post

True. The separate module (which covers from 50 to 150Hz) was working in conjunction with the new subs. The gunshots in the showdown in "Open Range" felt like gut punches. Unbelievable combination of output AND extension...

John

John, this would be true assuming that we had actually bothered to turn on the MBM-12 during the demo...
mcallister's Avatar mcallister 05:33 AM 01-19-2008
does anyone have an MBM they aren't utilizing and want to sell?
TheEAR's Avatar TheEAR 07:19 AM 01-19-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthemAVM View Post

Isn't speculation fun.

Dr HSU has put out great products before, and I am sure he wants to show people like JL and SVS, that he is the best.

I am really excited.

Dr Hsu sure is a very capable designer,but extending output into the 10hz range while remaining flat in a cabinet even slightly larger than the VTF3...you do not do miracles.No matter who you are.

Well...he may use one active and two PR's, here with one very long throw 12" and everything tuned to perfection the output will be very good still.

The best,you cannot call one designer the best,there is Mark Seaton and others who design and optimse designs no less well. Lets enjoy the designs they come up with.
Pete_Hsu's Avatar Pete_Hsu 10:03 AM 01-19-2008
One more thing I can clarify is that we were running the prototypes in maximum extension mode (ie. extended bass mode), in case that wasn't obvious

I love your tag, TheEAR, *** subwoofer madman, that's hilarious!
AnthemAVM's Avatar AnthemAVM 11:27 AM 01-19-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEAR View Post

Dr Hsu sure is a very capable designer,but extending output into the 10hz range while remaining flat in a cabinet even slightly larger than the VTF3...you do not do miracles.No matter who you are.

Well...he may use one active and two PR's, here with one very long throw 12" and everything tuned to perfection the output will be very good still.

The best,you cannot call one designer the best,there is Mark Seaton and others who design and optimse designs no less well. Lets enjoy the designs they come up with.

True no one is the best, they all make products that we will support, and freaks like you and me enjoy all the products. The good news is I am closer to HSU then you, so I should get them before you!
TheEAR's Avatar TheEAR 12:22 PM 01-19-2008
On a positive note, there is so many greats subs here and comming out the world should praise pioneers of sub bass like Dr. Hsu. He is in the elite and because of him the competition has to rethink and redesign, or look bad with underperforming subs.
juiceblrc's Avatar juiceblrc 12:30 PM 01-19-2008
Hey Pete,

Quit teasing us.

Give us some more info on this sub. Size, specs, etc.

When is it planning on being available for sale? Days? Weeks? Months?
bsoko2's Avatar bsoko2 01:55 PM 01-19-2008
Come on, come on! This is like Christmas eve and I can't sleep waiting to see what Santa has left for me . . . .
Tdekany's Avatar Tdekany 03:01 PM 01-19-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEAR View Post

extending output into the 10hz range while remaining flat in a cabinet even slightly larger than the VTF3...you do not do miracles.No matter who you are.

My reply is not to defend Dr Hsu, but to defend all the great minds out there.

If they thought like you, we would still be "enjoying" the stone age.

Never doubt what is possible.

Just look around you. There are miracles everywhere.

Can you imagine the reaction of people to your statement 150 years from now? They would probably laugh their heads off.

An open mind is a beautiful thing.
TheEAR's Avatar TheEAR 04:12 PM 01-19-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tdekany View Post

My reply is not to defend Dr Hsu, but to defend all the great minds out there.

If they thought like you, we would still be "enjoying" the stone age.

Never doubt what is possible.

Just look around you. There are miracles everywhere.

Can you imagine the reaction of people to your statement 150 years from now? They would probably laugh their heads off.

An open mind is a beautiful thing.

Miracles,are you one of those bible fanatics !? Stone age,yes miracles belong in the ancient times,when looney houses did not exist.

Reproducing very deep bass at serious SPL demands moving air,lots of it. No miracle will help,just curious to see.

Next time try to be informative and play Mr Po Lice less.
Tdekany's Avatar Tdekany 04:32 PM 01-19-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEAR View Post

Miracles,are you one of those bible fanatics !? Stone age,yes miracles belong in the ancient times,when looney houses did not exist.

Reproducing very deep bass at serious SPL demands moving air,lots of it. No miracle will help,just curious to see.

Next time try to be informative and play Mr Po Lice less.

Miracles like how you and I are communicating for example.

Airplanes, cars, medicine etc....

200 years ago these things would of been called miracles.

Yet to us today these things are normal - we take these things for granted.


Quote:


Next time try to be informative

Next time YOU try to be more open minded (and indeed more informative yourself before you write) instead of telling us what IS possible. There was nothing informative about your post except telling us that something is NOT POSSIBLE

You are not the last word in woofer design. Having dozens of speakers don't make you an expert.

In fact you are not a designer period.

Yet you try sounding like an expert.

All I tried to say is that I appreciate people who come up with products that people like you say are not possible.
Have you ever seen the first computer that was ever built?

Now look at what you are using.

Patiently waiting for your egoistic reply.
drnaive's Avatar drnaive 08:11 PM 01-19-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tdekany View Post

You are not the last word in woofer design. Having dozens of speakers don't make you an expert.

Dozen speakers? I doubt if he even own a single piece of serious gear.
Some el cheap/DIY ware?
Maybe.......


Tdekany's Avatar Tdekany 08:33 PM 01-19-2008
I "like" reading his posts and don't have anything against him. However to say whatis and what isn't possible is WRONG. That is all.
TheEAR's Avatar TheEAR 08:40 PM 01-19-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by drnaive View Post

Dozen speakers? I doubt if he even own a single piece of serious gear.
Some el cheap/DIY ware?
Maybe.......



I own Krell,TenorAudio,JL Audio,TC Sounds,Pioneer Elite,Anthem,SimAudio,Dynaudio,Revel ,Bryston,Aerial Acoustics,Sunfire among others...yes you are correct no serious gear at all. Child your attack is not even one ! Do better. And next time attack me in PM's not on a open forum.


If you aspiring Mensa bright bulbs have read anything I posted you would see I have not atatcked Dr. Hsu,or his subs. His products are great for the price and size. Never said they were not performers.

What I despise is blind fanboys of any company. Who cannot even accept anyone questioning claims,or giving an opinion. Josef Stalin would be proud of you boys.
jpmst3's Avatar jpmst3 09:03 PM 01-19-2008
Well, put it this way, until there is some revolutionary new invention that moves air at low frequencies that is not based on a traditional speaker, physics of that configuration still applies.

So, unless the enclosure is larger, the driver is larger, more power is added, there is more port area available, etc., having high SPLs AND being flat to 10Hz requires compromises in design. It is plain and simple, no miracles here.

If Dr. Hsu designed a new device that can accomplish this task without any of the above then he is the god of bass.
cschang's Avatar cschang 09:43 PM 01-19-2008
So, do you think Dr. Hsu has developed a sub that is "flat to 10hz" with a cabinet "slightly larger than at VTF-3" or are you saying it is not possible?
OvalNut's Avatar OvalNut 10:13 PM 01-19-2008
OK, what the heck. I'll say it's not possible with existing known technology.

.... Prove me wrong by explaining, in simple clear terms, how it works. The concept, not the patent details.

And please, spare us the "only from the mind of the good Dr." tripe.


Tim
cschang's Avatar cschang 10:16 PM 01-19-2008
Myself...I have no idea, but I am willing to keep an open mind and not call anyone a liar.

As far as I can tell so far, Hsu has not made any claims....at least not publically. What they have done is demo a sub at CES that impressed all the people that I know(personally) that heard it.
TheEAR's Avatar TheEAR 10:42 PM 01-19-2008
Back to speculation...

No new technology was used IMO,so far Dr. Hsu used very traditional methods,simply he applies them like few designers.And gets the outmost ,maximum out of them.

The sub is A , using very long ports. 10Hz tune would take ...ports on the loooong side,nah. Or B using a PR(multiple)PR's here you can obtain very low tuning and remain in a "compact" box.

All designs are one form or another of compromise. Simply some pick the balance alot better.

We will know when the sub is released,someone will buy it and open one up,and say that is all !!

I bet this unit will be the ideal mate of the MBM. Extreme depth and slam.
Russell Burrows's Avatar Russell Burrows 01:19 AM 01-20-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_Hsu View Post

One more thing I can clarify is that we were running the prototypes in maximum extension mode (ie. extended bass mode), in case that wasn't obvious

I love your tag, TheEAR, *** subwoofer madman, that's hilarious!






Pete I sent you a PM on adjustable ports.


Thank you.

Russ.
Ddavidson's Avatar Ddavidson 11:24 AM 01-20-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEAR View Post

Back to speculation...

No new technology was used IMO,so far Dr. Hsu used very traditional methods,simply he applies them like few designers.And gets the outmost ,maximum out of them.

The sub is A , using very long ports. 10Hz tune would take ...ports on the loooong side,nah. Or B using a PR(multiple)PR's here you can obtain very low tuning and remain in a "compact" box.

All designs are one form or another of compromise. Simply some pick the balance alot better.

We will know when the sub is released,someone will buy it and open one up,and say that is all !!

I bet this unit will be the ideal mate of the MBM. Extreme depth and slam.


I'm very bummed as I only ended up having 6 hrs in Vegas at the CES. I never got the time to get over to THE SHOW (St. Tropez) as my plane was badly delayed due to bad weather. I really would have liked to have heard Dr Hsu's new prototype. One thing that I heard from Hsu booth visitors was that this new prototype doesn't need the MBM.

Its no use people speculating because its just guesswork.
Its a prototype that doesn't even have a spec sheet, model number, release date, let alone a price.

I'm sure if Dr Hsu said its "flat to 10Hz" then its guaranteed to be flat to 10Hz.
Knowing and owning many Hsu subs (both past and present) I have little doubt it will have very good output across its whole operational range.

Everyone should revisit this when it is actually available.

Ddavidson
noah katz's Avatar noah katz 11:42 AM 01-20-2008
"So, unless the enclosure is larger, the driver is larger, more power is added, there is more port area available, etc., having high SPLs AND being flat to 10Hz requires compromises in design."

Yes, Hoffman's Iron Law applies.

Speaking of which, I haven't seen any mention of power requirements, the claims are not necessarily breaking it.
Russell Burrows's Avatar Russell Burrows 01:27 PM 01-20-2008
"So, unless there is more port area available"

Yes, Hoffman's Iron Law applies.

Ajustable ports.
xcjago's Avatar xcjago 05:09 PM 01-20-2008
Doesn't Mark Seaton's Submersive subwoofer go down to 8hz in-room? It's not very big.
TheEAR's Avatar TheEAR 06:06 PM 01-20-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by xcjago View Post

Doesn't Mark Seaton's Submersive subwoofer go down to 8hz in-room? It's not very big.

Question is 8Hz at what output,measured from how far. This output will also depend on room gain. Room gain will be critical.

You know the human hearing will not percieve extreme low end ,like freq. 20Hz up unless the output is VERY HIGH.
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