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post #61 of 307 Old 11-30-2008, 06:55 PM
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Looking for a new subwoofer. I had a Velodyne HGS-12 that was fine for my taste but it just stopped working.

Budget: < $2000
Size: about 1 cubic foot or as small as possible
Room: 29'L x 25'W (725 sq ft) x 10'H = 7250 sq ft listening area but part of a "great room" that is double this size.
Use: HT and Music
Habits: Relatively low sound levels
Appearance: Patent leather/shiny piano black
Timeframe: Preferably before Christmas but no great rush

HT/Music System it will be a part of:

Receiver: Denon AVR-4308CI
TV: Pioneer Elite PRO-150FD
Speakers: Artison M-LCR, LRS-IW
DVD: Denon DVD-2910
DVR: DIRECTV Plus HD
Power Conditioner: RGPC 400 Pro
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post #62 of 307 Old 12-30-2008, 10:22 AM
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Can anyone help me with knowing if my home theatre subwoofer can go horizonatal instead of vertical? It is the Sony HT-SS 2300 system. I can't seem to fit it right side up in my wall shelving.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks
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post #63 of 307 Old 01-15-2009, 02:40 PM
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1. Your budget: $500

2. Size requirements/limits: Small footprint needed

3. Room dimensions: 2200 cu ft

4. Primary uses: 70% HT; 20% music; 10% Games

5. Listening habits: Won't cross the -25 db on the master volume much

6. Appearance requirements: Wifee needs to approve

7. Timeframe: Need within a week

8. Currently own: DefTech ProSub800

9. Candidates: (Have not researched physical dimenssions on all just yet)

Hsu Research STF-2
Definitive Technology Supercube III
Velodyne DLS-4000R
SVS PB10
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post #64 of 307 Old 01-15-2009, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Convicted Melon,

Considering that the subwoofer will be used mostly for HT duties, I'd recommend the SVS PB10-NSD as the best of those candidates. It will dig the deepest and should give strong output down to 20hz and even a bit lower. This deep extension really makes a difference with many movies. Just make sure it isn't too big. You mentioned you need a small footprint, and while the PB10-NSD is considered small or moderately sized to the people on this subwoofer forum, you might be surprised with how large it really is in person. As long as it isn't too big, I think the PB10 is an excellent choice. I've owned the PB10 in the past and can say from personal experience that it's a great performer - especially at its price point.

My second choice would probably be the Hsu. The STF-2 is said to pack a good punch and has good sound quality. However, it won't get quite as deep as the PB10, so you might miss out on some of the really deep bass in some movies with the STF-2. Still, at its price point it is a good choice, though I think the PB10 is worth the price difference, and since you can afford the PB10-NSD I'd go with it if I were you.

The Velodyne is a solid sub with good overall output, but it's lacking in extension. It will taper off before the Hsu and way before the SVS. It should pack a good punch like the Hsu (and SVS), but it just won't dig as deep.

The Supercube III has decent output in mid-upper bass, but its small driver and radiators simply don't allow it to go very deep at all with any authority. Unless the tiny form factor is an absolute must, I'd pass on the Supercube III.

Good luck with your decision.
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post #65 of 307 Old 01-19-2009, 01:51 PM
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Budget - $350, tax and shipping can be extra

Size -footprint up to 12"

Room Dimension - 10' x 15'

Primary uses - 70% HDTV, BD and 30% Music

Listening Habits - Adding a sub woofer to an existing 5.1 system, at normal volumes, looking to bring in the lower ranges to round out the listening range. On occasion, higher volume listening, not excessive

Appearance - no specific requirements

Timeframe - open for now

Thanks in advance for your feedback.
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post #66 of 307 Old 01-20-2009, 09:55 PM
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Hello,
I am setting up my first media room and have very little CE experience. I have decided to go 5.1 and am purchasing Aperion speakers for my 5.1 system. I have considered getting the Aperion sub but others have gone with another manufacturer.

I have a Sony KDS60A3000, a Panasonic BD35, and a Denon 2309.

Budget - $500-800

Size -prefer smaller for space and WAF

Room Dimension - 11' x 24' in the basement

Primary uses - 70% HDTV, BD and 30% Music

Listening Habits - Moderate volume levels because of small children

Appearance - black finish

Timeframe - any

Thanks for any suggestions!
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post #67 of 307 Old 01-21-2009, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clin157ton View Post

Budget - $350, tax and shipping can be extra

Size -footprint up to 12"

Room Dimension - 10' x 15'

Primary uses - 70% HDTV, BD and 30% Music

Listening Habits - Adding a sub woofer to an existing 5.1 system, at normal volumes, looking to bring in the lower ranges to round out the listening range. On occasion, higher volume listening, not excessive

Appearance - no specific requirements

Timeframe - open for now

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Hi,

Most of your requirements are relatively easy to follow in and of themselves, but the combination of your size requirement and budget requirement severely limits your options. Just to clarify, do you mean that your sub can't be any larger than 12" in any direction, or do you mean you don't want a larger woofer than a 12" woofer? It's definitely doable to find decent subs with 12" woofers for under $350, but to find a quality <$350 subwoofer with dimensions smaller than one cubic foot is going to be tough. Usually with subwoofer performance you can pick any two of these three: small, great performance, inexpensive. Unfortunately, since you need small and inexpensive, I doubt you'll be able to get a very high performing sub. Please respond to let us know if indeed the 12" size requirement is what I think it is. Once we know for sure, we'll see about recommendations.
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post #68 of 307 Old 01-21-2009, 10:33 AM
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lakersfan34,
I apologize for the confusion. As I'm sure you can tell I am a newbie. I was referring to woofer size and not the overall dimension. Since my initial post I increased my budget up to $450. I've also been reading about the SV PB10-NSD and the HSU VTF-1. Thoughts?

Thanks.
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post #69 of 307 Old 01-21-2009, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clin157ton View Post

lakersfan34,
I apologize for the confusion. As I'm sure you can tell I am a newbie. I was referring to woofer size and not the overall dimension. Since my initial post I increased my budget up to $450. I've also been reading about the SV PB10-NSD and the HSU VTF-1. Thoughts?

Thanks.

No problem, nothing to apologize for. I'm glad to see I misinterpreted your post because you have a heck of a lot more options this way .

Both the PB10 and VTF-1 are good subs. I've personally owned the PB10 but not the VTF-1, so I can't give any personal feedback on the Hsu. That said, the general consensus is that the PB10-NSD will be the better of the two for movies, while the Hsu will probably have a small edge for music. As long as you aren't planning to listen really loud, either one is probably adequate for your 10'x15' room. One thing to make sure of: is the room closed off or does it open to other rooms? For example a 15x15 living room which opens to another 15x15 room is for all intents and purposes "bigger" than a single 20x20 room. The sub is required to energize the entire space, not just the listening area. If your room is truly 15x10 and is (or can be) closed off from other rooms, these two subs should have no problem unless you listen near reference levels.

My personal opinion: since you've listed TV/Blu-ray as 70% with music at 30%, you'll probably benefit from the added low end power of the PB10-NSD, so I'd probably go with the SVS. If your listening preferences were flipped (70% music, 30% TV/Blu) I might go for the Hsu instead. Either way, you'll be getting a good sub.
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post #70 of 307 Old 01-21-2009, 10:56 AM
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Thanks for the great information. The room is 1,350 cubic feet and not completely closed. One wall is partially open as this room is accessed from another room.
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post #71 of 307 Old 01-21-2009, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clin157ton View Post

Thanks for the great information. The room is 1,350 cubic feet and not completely closed. One wall is partially open as this room is accessed from another room.

Any idea how big the adjoining room is?
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post #72 of 307 Old 01-21-2009, 11:04 AM
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The adjoining room is virtually identical in size. The open wall space between them is 7' x 7' like a square 'archway'.
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post #73 of 307 Old 01-21-2009, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Gotcha. So you're looking at around 2700 cubic feet, then. The PB10 should be able to produce decent bass in a space that size, though if it's lots of impact or pressurization you're after, you might want to save a bit more money and go for something bigger.

For example, if you can bump your budget to $500 you could look into something like the Elemental Designs (eD) A3-300. It has a larger 12" driver, a slightly more powerful amp, and a larger enclosure. It starts at $475, but it's totally worth it to spend an extra $25 to get the upgraded driver. Finally, if the rough standard black finish looks a bit too unrefined, for $35 you can get the sub in a smoother matte black finish. A nice thing about eD is that their prices include shipping. So if you go all out and get the A3-300 with upgraded amp and nicer finish, it'll cost you $535 to your door. If the finish doesn't matter, it'll be just $500.

Anyway, no pressure to spend more, but with your room really being closer to 2500-3000 cubic feet, you might benefit from something a little bigger than the PB10 and VTF-1. Best of luck.
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post #74 of 307 Old 01-21-2009, 02:07 PM
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Good information. And one last question. Is there another sub (different brand) that compares to the A3-300 that you would recommend?

Thanks very much.
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post #75 of 307 Old 01-21-2009, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clin157ton View Post

Good information. And one last question. Is there another sub (different brand) that compares to the A3-300 that you would recommend?

Thanks very much.

At that price point, probably not. SVS's PC12-NSD should be comparable, but it's $549 plus another ~$60 shipping. I might personally prefer the PC12-NSD, but your budget is already getting pushed up little by little,and I'm trying not to push too hard.
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post #76 of 307 Old 01-21-2009, 02:19 PM
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Why not just get the PB12-NSD for $50 more!
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post #77 of 307 Old 01-21-2009, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clin157ton View Post

Why not just get the PB12-NSD for $50 more!

LOL. It's up to you how much you really want to spend. Your budget as of two days ago was $350. You've since increased it to $450, and seem willing to go even higher. Of course, the more money you spend, the better the subwoofer you can get. However, I truly do try to be mindful of peoples' budgets. Nothing is more discouraging than to post for help and have everyone say "you need to spend $xxxxx more before you get anything worthwhile." The PB10 and VTF-1 are both capable subs that might do just fine in your room. The A3-300 with upgraded driver should be a noticeable step up in output from those two. I don't know how the PB12-NSD and PC12-NSD compare with the A3-300 - it's possible they are all pretty comparable.

To give you an idea of what your extra ~$170 would get you going from the PB10 to the PB/PC12, I do know that the PB12-NSD enjoys a ~3-4dB output advantage over the PB10. Whether that matters to you depends on your listening levels and room size. 3-4dB is a significant increase in output. It's not a night and day difference, but it's certainly noticeable.

I can guarantee you that if you stick around on this forum for any amount of time, you'll end up getting upgradeitis. Going for the bigger one now should help put that off a bit, but it's pretty much inevitable to want to upgrade at some point. Also, it can be cheaper in the long run if you spend a bit more to start with because you'll end up upgrading fewer times. Take it from me - in the past 2 years I've gone from a Velodyne VX-10 to an Infinity PS212 to a single PB10-NSD, added a second PB10-NSD, and finally sold those and got an Epik Castle. In hindsight, it would have saved me a lot of money to "go big" from the get go. I'm not saying you have to do it that way, and it's quite possible you won't get the bass bug quite as badly as I did. It's just worth considering.

Alright, enough rambling. Hope you can make an informed decision. Best of luck, and keep me posted. Feel free to ask any other questions you may have.
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post #78 of 307 Old 01-21-2009, 03:34 PM
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I just ordered the PC12-NSD after speaking with the folks at SVS. It made sense to go bigger. This being my first sub, I am hoping to hold onto it for a while.

I'm already developing a case of upgrade-itis. In the past few months I purchased a Samsung 52" 8 series, Denon AVR-2309, and now the PC12.

I'm already thinking of upgrading all my other speakers. Damn this AVS Forum.
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post #79 of 307 Old 01-21-2009, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clin157ton View Post

damn this avs forum.

+100000000!!
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post #80 of 307 Old 01-21-2009, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I think the PC12-NSD is a great choice. It should have lots of output and plenty of deep extension as well. The guys at SVS are awesome - glad you got the chance to talk to them. I've never had better customer service anywhere, period. I think you'll be thrilled. And don't worry, they have pretty good resale value so you might still get a decent amount for the PC12 when you upgrade to the PC13-Ultra in six months
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post #81 of 307 Old 01-21-2009, 03:45 PM
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Thanks for all your help.

I'll probably end up posting in several other threads when I can't get any of this stuff set up and configured.

YOU'RE KILLING ME!
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post #82 of 307 Old 01-21-2009, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melodrama View Post

Hello,
I am setting up my first media room and have very little CE experience. I have decided to go 5.1 and am purchasing Aperion speakers for my 5.1 system. I have considered getting the Aperion sub but others have gone with another manufacturer.

I have a Sony KDS60A3000, a Panasonic BD35, and a Denon 2309.

Budget - $500-800

Size -prefer smaller for space and WAF

Room Dimension - 11' x 24' in the basement

Primary uses - 70% HDTV, BD and 30% Music

Listening Habits - Moderate volume levels because of small children

Appearance - black finish

Timeframe - any

Thanks for any suggestions!

Can you define "small" for us? To some people on this forum a 20" cube is considered a small subwoofer while others want a tiny 12" cube or smaller.

Assuming you truly need a small sub, the SVS SB12-Plus is a sub with good sound quality in a small package. Owners claim that it has pretty decent output above 30hz but it doesn't have the low end grunt to deliver the deep <25hz movie materiel with any true power. Still, at its size and price class, it's probably about as well as you'll be able to do. The Aperions actually look decent but they don't dig very deep at all. The SB12-Plus should get lower than the Aperion 10D, though it's anyone's guess as to which has more output in the mid-bass.

If size really isn't as critical as you made it seem, given your emphasis on movies/HDTV you'll be MUCH better served by a larger ported sub. Hopefully you can provide some more specific size requirements. That will allow for more helpful suggestions.
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post #83 of 307 Old 01-23-2009, 06:54 PM
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Ok. Here's my plea for help......

I've read all the posts so far and I think I have an idea as to what I need but, I just want some opinions before I pull the trigger.

Looking for a new subwoofer. I had a Cambridge BassCube12 and the amp board is cooked.

Budget: $200-300 (I guess I could wait till the tax rebate arrives if I need more $$)
Size: Anything less than 18" x 18"
Room: 15'L x 12'W x 7.5'H = 1350 sq ft. Almost fully contained room wth a 4' doorway on one side of the room. Old sub was positioned at the front left corner of the room.
Use: HT and very rarely, some music
Habits: Medium sound levels on TV shows, medium to loud on movies.
Appearance: Black to match the other components but, other finishes can be used if necessary.
Timeframe: Next week or so....

HT/Music System it will be a part of:

Receiver: Sony STR-DA5000ES
TV: Panasonic TH42PX50U
Speakers: Cambridge Soundworks stuff. Old but, still usable..... (i know, i know...)
DVD: Sony DVD Player with upconverter through HDMI output.
DVR: DIRECTV Plus HD

Based on the posts I've seen and the size of my room, I'm guessing that the SVS PB10-NSD is a nice fit and the HSU STF-2 is decent for my Sq Footage.

This is the worst timing for a dead subwoofer since I just had to replace my bedroom TV and had to upgrade the clutch on my car recently.

Honestly, I'd try and fix this amp board but, it's a POS and I hate the way this BassCube operates.
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post #84 of 307 Old 01-23-2009, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi daft_bw,

The STF-2 would probably be a great sub for your space unless you really like to crank the volume during movies. It meets your size requirements and should be a good upgrade from the Cambridge you had before. It does exceed your posted budget, as it will be close to $400 after shipping. The PB10-NSD would be even better, but by the time you factor in shipping it'll be almost $500. If you need a sub soon and can afford to go with the STF-2, it's probably a good option.
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post #85 of 307 Old 01-24-2009, 06:37 AM
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Thanks for the feedback lalakersfan.

I think that I've found a used VTF-2 Mk1 that I can score for about $200 in really good condition. It has a felt covered exterior.

Do you think that would be worth it or should I just wait a bit longer and just get the STF-2 in new condition?

I guess what I'm asking is:

Is a VTF-2 Mk1 going to be a better piece of hardware or will the SFT-2 be more efficient due to it's newer design and size?
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post #86 of 307 Old 01-24-2009, 07:41 AM
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I'm waiting for delivery of my PC12-NSD. I need to get a cable. Are all subwoofer cables the same???
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post #87 of 307 Old 01-24-2009, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daft_bw View Post

Thanks for the feedback lalakersfan.

I think that I've found a used VTF-2 Mk1 that I can score for about $200 in really good condition. It has a felt covered exterior.

Do you think that would be worth it or should I just wait a bit longer and just get the STF-2 in new condition?

I guess what I'm asking is:

Is a VTF-2 Mk1 going to be a better piece of hardware or will the SFT-2 be more efficient due to it's newer design and size?

You might want to start a separate thread asking that question because I don't have experience with those particular subs. One thing with the VTF-2 MK1 is that it is probably out of warranty - just something to keep in mind.
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post #88 of 307 Old 01-28-2009, 06:43 PM
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Lalakersfan...you seem very knowledgable about subs and I was wondering how you might rate B&W's AS-2 compared to some of the other recommendations you've made? Application is a 25/17 room that's a 2 story family room. Looking at driving the sub with an Onk 906 and a set of B&W m-1s. Really not looking to shake the house, just add a modest low end when watching movies. Setup will likely be 95% HD TV, home movies and HD cable.

If you have any recommendations where to get the AS2 on the net it would also be appreciated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lalakersfan34 View Post

LOL. It's up to you how much you really want to spend. Your budget as of two days ago was $350. You've since increased it to $450, and seem willing to go even higher. Of course, the more money you spend, the better the subwoofer you can get. However, I truly do try to be mindful of peoples' budgets. Nothing is more discouraging than to post for help and have everyone say "you need to spend $xxxxx more before you get anything worthwhile." The PB10 and VTF-1 are both capable subs that might do just fine in your room. The A3-300 with upgraded driver should be a noticeable step up in output from those two. I don't know how the PB12-NSD and PC12-NSD compare with the A3-300 - it's possible they are all pretty comparable.

To give you an idea of what your extra ~$170 would get you going from the PB10 to the PB/PC12, I do know that the PB12-NSD enjoys a ~3-4dB output advantage over the PB10. Whether that matters to you depends on your listening levels and room size. 3-4dB is a significant increase in output. It's not a night and day difference, but it's certainly noticeable.

I can guarantee you that if you stick around on this forum for any amount of time, you'll end up getting upgradeitis. Going for the bigger one now should help put that off a bit, but it's pretty much inevitable to want to upgrade at some point. Also, it can be cheaper in the long run if you spend a bit more to start with because you'll end up upgrading fewer times. Take it from me - in the past 2 years I've gone from a Velodyne VX-10 to an Infinity PS212 to a single PB10-NSD, added a second PB10-NSD, and finally sold those and got an Epik Castle. In hindsight, it would have saved me a lot of money to "go big" from the get go. I'm not saying you have to do it that way, and it's quite possible you won't get the bass bug quite as badly as I did. It's just worth considering.

Alright, enough rambling. Hope you can make an informed decision. Best of luck, and keep me posted. Feel free to ask any other questions you may have.


OPPO BDP-83 EAP (second group)
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post #89 of 307 Old 01-28-2009, 10:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heatwave3 View Post

Lalakersfan...you seem very knowledgable about subs and I was wondering how you might rate B&W's AS-2 compared to some of the other recommendations you've made? Application is a 25/17 room that's a 2 story family room. Looking at driving the sub with an Onk 906 and a set of B&W m-1s. Really not looking to shake the house, just add a modest low end when watching movies. Setup will likely be 95% HD TV, home movies and HD cable.

If you have any recommendations where to get the AS2 on the net it would also be appreciated.

Hi,

Unfortunately I'm probably not as knowledgeable about subwoofers as you're hoping. I really haven't had much experience with B&W subs. My recommendation would be to start a thread of your own, as you'll get more replies there.

I'd also like to caution you that on this forum, the biggest bang for the buck is king. If you list a budget (which you should in the new thread you make ) you can be sure that people will automatically recommend the biggest, baddest sub you can afford from an internet-only company you've never heard of. If you're determined to get a B&W subwoofer so it matches aesthetically with the rest of your setup, I'm just warning you that you might not be met with very much helpful advice . That said, you don't need to get a B&W subwoofer just because you have B&W speakers - any quality subwoofer will sound great (it's not like matching speakers where it's important to have speakers that have similar sonic characteristics).

I wish you the best of luck. Start a thread and list some of the requirements that are in the first post of this thread. You should get some advice before long.

Stephen
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post #90 of 307 Old 02-02-2009, 08:49 PM
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i have a samsung ln52a650, xbox360, 2 iq7 towers, and am waiting for suggestions on the other speakers in other forums, i plan on getting a pioneer vsx1018/denon avr 1909.

Budget - $200-300, tax and shipping can be extra

Size -footprint up to 15"

Room Dimension - 13' x 16' x 13'h

Primary uses - 70% Gaming, 30% HT

Listening Habits - volumes in normal levels nothing crazily loud that will disturb the neighbors

Appearance - don't care

Timeframe - open for now

Position - behind tower, or next to TV

Thanks for your help.
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