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Want advice on what sub to purchase? Please read this before posting...

264K views 410 replies 224 participants last post by  Kothoga 
#1 ·
Having waded through post after post of people seeking advice regarding the purchase of a new sub, responding with good ideas, and being told time and time again "that's too expensive," "that thing is huge," etc, I think it's time to give some guidelines as to the information that should be provided by anyone in search of assistance before purchasing a subwoofer. Here's a short list that can help immensely, both in keeping threads less cluttered, as well as helping OP's get the information and opinions they desire more quickly:



Before anything else...

Search the forum. Chances are, your question regarding "this sub vs. that sub" has already been asked, discussed, chewed, and spat out hundreds of times already. Try to search the forums and see if you can get a good amount of information that way. If you still want personal advice, feel free to make new threads, but the search function is a wonderful thing





If you still seek more guidance after you have exhausted the AVS Subwoofer Forum Archives, then proceed to begin a thread with the following criteria answered as fully as possible.

1. Your budget. This seems like an obvious thing to state when seeking advice, but many people neglect to mention this anywhere. If you have a budget of $200 but don't mention this and say you want awesome performance, you'll be getting a lot of suggestions for PB13 Ultras, Conquests, F113's, etc. Please cut down the frustration for everyone and simply state a budget range, preferably making it clear to those who desire to help you whether or not this budget includes shipping and taxes


2. Size requirements/limits. If you say you have a $700 budget but fail to inform us that you need a 10" cube form factor, you can rest assured you'll be receiving recommendations for Epik Knights, eD A5-350's, MFW-15's, etc, none of which will come anywhere close to meeting your need for a tiny box. When size matters, please say so!

3. Room dimensions. If you have a 10,000 cubic foot room and a $150 budget, chances are we can't help much. Still, room dimensions can make a big impact on recommendations. Small subs like the SVS SB12 Plus are great subs for music and pretty good for HT, but they'll prove to be insufficient in huge rooms.

4. Primary uses. Given a certain budget, one sub might be a better choice for HT, while another might be a better sub for music. Of course quality subs can do both well. Still, giving an estimate of usage (example: 60% HT/TV viewing, 30% music, 10% gaming) will help others give better recommendations.

5. Listening habits. Listening habits can dictate what sub you'll need. Many AVS members are a bit excessive with their bass requirements and desires (myself included). However, not everyone needs two Epik Conquests in their 2500 cubic foot room. If you realistically won't be listening at really high volumes, say so. On the other hand, if you like to watch concert DVDs at SPL levels that make live concerts seem tame by comparison, we need to know that too.

6. Appearance requirements. Some people have no problem putting a huge box with a rough, black cabinet in their dedicated home theater. Others need a nicely finished cabinet to fit well in the family room. Please make any aesthetic requirements known so those giving advice will be better able to assist you.

7. Timeframe. There are many new subwoofer manufacturers that sell direct over the internet and have enjoyed extremely high popularity in a very short time span. Unfortunately, this has caused severe backorders on their products, as they have not been able to keep up with demand. Try to let us know if getting the sub right away is a priority, as it might affect the suggestions you receive depending on whether or not certain companies are backlogged.






Hopefully these guidelines can help to streamline subwoofer suggestions here on AVS. Anyone with additional ideas, feel free to give input as well. Thanks.
 
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#204 ·
Looking to upgrade my sub within the next month and right now leaning heavily towards the Bic Acoustech PL-200. Seems like a real good bang for the buck. Currently I am only using a Denon 8” sub that came with a HTIB. Also, I will be placing this in the rear by my couch and back wall, so I don’t know if front or down firing would be any kind of advantage as far as placement goes (see picture, bottom left where the little end table is)...


1. Your budget: Currently I am looking in and around $300 range. But of course, if there is a much better sub for a little more, then by all means I’ll consider it.


2. Size requirements/limits: No size restrictions as far as sub goes. Actually wish it was big enough to be an end table size


3. Room dimensions: Looking to “fill” an open floor plan that is open downstairs to living room, kitchen and hallways. The primary room though is 10’x20’x8’. (see picture)


4. Primary uses: I would say it will be used for 60% TV/HT, 30% Music, and 10% gaming.


5. Listening habits: Need something that digs fairly deep as I love my bass. On the other hand, I live in a townhouse, and I will rarely if at all listen at reference levels. I also do not want to “outgrow” the sub, but I know how it usually goes…always looking for something bigger and better. Just need it to satisfy me for a while.


6. Appearance requirements: Appearance doesn’t really matter, however it will be placed beside my main sofa.


7. Timeframe: Looking to buy within a month.


A few subs that I am looking at:


Bic Acoustech PL-200 (top choice right now, based on paper stats)

Hsu Research STF-2 or VTF-1

Lava LSP12

Epik Legend (pretty much out of price range)

Emotiva Ultra Sub 10

SVS PB10 (once again, pretty much out of price range)

ED A3s-250 or A2-300


To me, I think any sub that I go with will be a big step of from what I currently have….Thanks for your help!
 
#205 ·
Velodyne seems to have lost their mojo. Years ago, the F series rocked in terms of accuracy, good looks, speed and ability to blend. When home theater became more in vogue, the CHT series, despite their grainy cheap black finish, provided good punch for the money. Later on, the HGS kicked some serious bass for the size, all the while looking hot. Now, however, their drivers are looking unimpressive, still sticking with foam surrounds and ordinary cones. Also, spending money on preset EQ's and remotes are kind of neat, but provide nothing in terms of quality, just convenience. Heck, my boomboxes Kenwood SW-1050 had a remote with presents ten years ago for $200. Those just aren't selling points. The newer DLS line looks good, but is pricey compared to SVS. The DEQ line needs some serious upgrading in the looks department, along with the Optimum series. Velodyne has too many lines, spreading themselves too thin, with Impact lines and VRP lines, etc. What they need is a good $650 sub to compete with SVS's new SB12-NSD. A sub that reeks cool. One that exudes a "Gotta have it" quality. It's sad to see what was once a leader in the field, along with the now deceased M&K, struggling to find their niche, loosing their competitive edge. Time to thin out the herd. Keep the DD series, merge the Optimum and DEQ lines. Totally lose the MicroVee, MiniVee, Impact and VX lines. Narrow the in-room sub line to three distinct lines, without the cheap ones at Fry's. Regain the leadership position they once held. At the recent Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, a serious show with dozens of really nice retailers, Velodyne appeared to only have the Optimum 12 on display. It looked small, insignificant, it's presence less noticed that some of the speaker cables or interconnects being used. Not much of a presence, at all. A shame.
 
#206 ·
I'm looking for a sub with my bedroom setup. This a 12x 15 bedroom with a Pioneer 1120k receiver, Klipsch RF63 towers, RC52 center and RS42 rears.


I'm looking for a sub that is around 15x15" maybe a little bigger as i am tight on room. The smaller Elemental Designs seem to be on the top of my list.


This is for movies only on 3 of my Pioneer Elite DVD players, DV-37, DV-59 AVI and a 05 FD Blueray player.


What would you guys pick?
 
#207 ·
Don't obsess about "music" only or "movie" only subs. The way around this man-made dilemma is to buy the fastest, most responsive sub you can get. Sealed designs don't have the sheer decibel output of ported designs, but they are accurate by nature. Many of the new smaller units will, with internal EQ built into the amps, go down to 20hz. quite nicely. In my bedroom, I've got an SVS SB12-Plus. It's a sealed 12", and works great on music, TV and DVD's. Personally, I like a 12" driver, but I'm a known bass hog. Are you referring to the Elemental Designs A3S - 250? It's got a sharp looking driver with a rubber surround, sealed design for speed, compact size and goes down to a respectable 25 hertz. But consider another factor: It's built here in the states, assembled in Iowa by Americans. For me, that's a fairly important consideration. Getting top quality and keeping people working at the same time? Deal. SVS, HSU, Elemental Designs, all good.


For the record:

Buying something made overseas can be a pain. I've got a new Infinity Cascade 15 Cherry, and the amp has issues. Harman International made me haul the thing to a repair shop some 70 miles away, and then go pick it up a month later, and it's still got amp issues. Two rounds trips worth of gas and time, tying up two Saturdays, and out of service for a month. Not happy with Harman International products OR their personnel. Wish I'd bought American from a company with phones here that actually get answered. You learn from your mistakes. It's not the old JBL or Infinity anymore. Stay away!
 
#208 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofernut
Don't obsess about "music" only or "movie" only subs. The way around this man-made dilemma is to buy the fastest, most responsive sub you can get. Sealed designs don't have the sheer decibel output of ported designs, but they are accurate by nature. Many of the new smaller units will, with internal EQ built into the amps, go down to 20hz. quite nicely. In my bedroom, I've got an SVS SB12-Plus. It's a sealed 12", and works great on music, TV and DVD's. Personally, I like a 12" driver, but I'm a known bass hog. Are you referring to the Elemental Designs A3S - 250? It's got a sharp looking driver with a rubber surround, sealed design for speed, compact size and goes down to a respectable 25 hertz. But consider another factor: It's built here in the states, assembled in Iowa by Americans. For me, that's a fairly important consideration. Getting top quality and keeping people working at the same time? Deal. SVS, HSU, Elemental Designs, all good.


For the record:

Buying something made overseas can be a pain. I've got a new Infinity Cascade 15 Cherry, and the amp has issues. Harman International made me haul the thing to a repair shop some 70 miles away, and then go pick it up a month later, and it's still got amp issues. Two rounds trips worth of gas and time, tying up two Saturdays, and out of service for a month. Not happy with Harman International products OR their personnel. Wish I'd bought American from a company with phones here that actually get answered. You learn from your mistakes. It's not the old JBL or Infinity anymore. Stay away!
The ED A3S-250 is on the top of my list at this time.
 
#209 ·
Need some help with this pls but first off, i live in China and i don't have access to all the direct sales american made subs, prices here will be almost double of what they are in the US so choices are limited:


Am planning my upgrade and am looking a surround set of either Swans 6.1/6.2 or KEF IQ90...


And am thinking to go either with 2 smaller subs or one bigger one


this is the Swans Sub10V...2300rmb (345 USD)

http://swanspeaker.com/products/prod...ngle=subwoofer


This is the larger 12inch Jamo 650SUB which could fit into my budget...but only 1 - 4850 rmb (728 USD)

http://www.jamo.com/na-en/products/sub-650-description/


The Jamo also has a little brother which is the 550SUB also 10inch but i like the look of the Swans better - 3400 rmb (510 USD)


1. max 4800rmb (700 USD)

2. 8, 10, 12 inch sub all ok

3. 45 SQM (5.2M x 8.6M)

4. 70% HT - 30% music

5. Turn it up for movies for sound immersion, normal for the rest

6. Black and rest depends on the box

7. no time frame


Brands like SVS are just crazy expensive here. I have set my limit at 4800rmb roughly 700usd but wouldn't mind spending less of course...i got a 45sqm living room, long rectangle shaped living room (5.20m * 8.60M - setup will be precisely in the middle of this room with sub or subs on either end (left ear and right ear) of the 8.60m)


Question is which would be be better suited in my apartment...2 smaller subs or 1 bigger one?


And the next question can i just match those subs with the speakers i have selected - as far as my non existent sub knowledge goes a sub is a sub so don't see any reason why not but just wanted to make sure so correct me if i am wrong...
 
#210 ·
Hi,


I want to replace my subwoofer Kef KUBE2. I have sound system KEF KHT-2005.3


1. Budget 500 1000$


2. I would like 10" / 12" , i think thats the best for my living room 60-70 square meters


3. Room dimensions , im from sweden but i guess it's 50/70 square meters.


4. Listening ratio : 75% music and 25% TV/Movies


5. Listening habits. POP/RNB/Metall.


6. Appearance requirements: Dont care
, just it's sounds good.



I have been looking at SVS/Velodyne/sunfire/Epik



Thanks for your help !
 
#211 ·
I just recently sold my monitor audio gs60 system and subwoofer and I am currently upgrading to genelec ht-206b fronts and aiw25 rears. I am stuck on my subwoofer decision. Cost aside I am considering either a genelec hts4b or 2 Martin Logan descent i's with a velodyne SMS-1 system. Anyone with experience with genelec have any thoughts?
 
#214 ·
Denon 2311i

Center RC 52II

Floor Speakers Rf 52 II

Surround RS 52II



1. Your budget. My budget i would say is $600.00 if there is a nice cheaper even better there is one that is $615 that is fine.


2. Size requirements/limits. Dont really care if it is Huge i have another end table to use.



3. Room dimensions. 13x20 five or take a few feet might be a hair bigger


4. Primary uses. 10% music 65% HT 25% gaming


5. Listening habits. I like Bass the boom want the ability to be obnoxious when the wife is away, but also like a smooth sounding bass when watching movies or tv with the wife.



6. Appearance requirements. Not high on my list not a huge deal performance first


7. Timeframe. No rush but still want one like a little kid
 
#218 ·
Hello All,


I am new here but have been reading this forum for a while now. However, I am still not completely sure on what subwoofer to purchase. All my speakers are older models but still sound good to my ears at least, tv is new as is the receiver.


Here are some details.


Current Setup:

Panasonic VT25 - 58"

JBL S312BE for my front speakers

JBL S-Center Studio Series for my center channel

JBL HLS410 for the rear surround speakers

Pioneer S-W1000 subwoofer (ancient beast, given to me)

DirecTV

Sony STR-DN1010 receiver

PS3 or Panasonic 3D Blu-ray player


I have attached a photo of my room setup, taken from the top of the stairs in the back of the room. The room is 18x16 with a staircase on the back wall. Also with a cathedral ceiling starting at 8ft and going up to the second story prob 18ft or so. This room is also open to the kitchen which would be to the left of the photo attached.


Budget I am looking to spend around $1000-1100 for a subwoofer. Cosmetics and size are not an issue for me however there is only a few spots to put a sub in this room, one being where the pioneer is now in the upper right corner of the photo, or next to the couch on the left of the photo(which would not be next to the opening to the kitchen).


As most of you on this forum are bass hogs I am too! Need to feel like I am in the movie! My listening preferences is pretty much 90% movies and some radio/music.


Currently I have been reading the reviews, threads on the HSU VTF-15H, ED A5-350 which seem to me to be a good fit for my room. The two high end theater stores here in central ohio do not carry either brand. The local places do carry Paradigm and a few other names.


My cousin has a SVS PC12-NSD in his setup in his basement which sounded good as well.


After reading many many threads I am still not sure what sub would be a good fit for me.


Any help would be great!


Aaron


 
#219 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckeyeOcean /forum/post/0


Hello All,


I am new here but have been reading this forum for a while now. However, I am still not completely sure on what subwoofer to purchase. All my speakers are older models but still sound good to my ears at least, tv is new as is the receiver.


Here are some details.


Current Setup:

Panasonic VT25 - 58"

JBL S312BE for my front speakers

JBL S-Center Studio Series for my center channel

JBL HLS410 for the rear surround speakers

Pioneer S-W1000 subwoofer (ancient beast, given to me)

DirecTV

Sony STR-DN1010 receiver

PS3 or Panasonic 3D Blu-ray player


I have attached a photo of my room setup, taken from the top of the stairs in the back of the room. The room is 18x16 with a staircase on the back wall. Also with a cathedral ceiling starting at 8ft and going up to the second story prob 18ft or so. This room is also open to the kitchen which would be to the left of the photo attached.


Budget I am looking to spend around $1000-1100 for a subwoofer. Cosmetics and size are not an issue for me however there is only a few spots to put a sub in this room, one being where the pioneer is now in the upper right corner of the photo, or next to the couch on the left of the photo(which would not be next to the opening to the kitchen).


As most of you on this forum are bass hogs I am too! Need to feel like I am in the movie! My listening preferences is pretty much 90% movies and some radio/music.


Currently I have been reading the reviews, threads on the HSU VTF-15H, ED A5-350 which seem to me to be a good fit for my room. The two high end theater stores here in central ohio do not carry either brand. The local places do carry Paradigm and a few other names.


My cousin has a SVS PC12-NSD in his setup in his basement which sounded good as well.


After reading many many threads I am still not sure what sub would be a good fit for me.


Any help would be great!


Aaron

You can't go wrong with any of the subs listed. If you're willing to spend about $1k then I think you'll be really happy with the Vtf-15h. I have it and it continues to put a smile on my face when i watch movies with it's ability to be both subtle and powerful when called upon. It plays deep, clean, and loud authoritative bass.


When you do play music, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at what this behemoth can do.


-Len
 
#220 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by joker21705 /forum/post/0


Denon 2311i

Center RC 52II

Floor Speakers Rf 52 II

Surround RS 52II


1. Your budget. My budget i would say is $600.00 if there is a nice cheaper even better there is one that is $615 that is fine.


2. Size requirements/limits. Dont really care if it is Huge i have another end table to use.


3. Room dimensions. 13x20 five or take a few feet might be a hair bigger


4. Primary uses. 10% music 65% HT 25% gaming


5. Listening habits. I like Bass the boom want the ability to be obnoxious when the wife is away, but also like a smooth sounding bass when watching movies or tv with the wife.


6. Appearance requirements. Not high on my list not a huge deal performance first


7. Timeframe. No rush but still want one like a little kid

Joker,


With your needs I would think either an Outlaw Audio LFM-1 plus or a Hsu VTF-2 mk3 would fit the bill and get you some good home theater bass. With shipping it should put you right around $610 for either. They're both vented 12" subs designed by Dr.Hsu, have similar (except for amp power) specs, are around the same size, and will sound pretty similar. Check them out on the outlawaudio.com and hsuresearch.com websites.


Also, the Epik Legend, with it's dual opposed 12" drivers in a sealed cabinet should be in stock soon at epiksubwoofers.com. With it's special intro price of $499 and a shipping cost of $88 it should be right under what you want to spend.


-Len
 
#221 ·
Searching for info on subs, I found this forum. I've gotten lots of great info from reading these 8 pages of posts on this sticky thread. I need a sub and would love some input. I followed lalakersfan's advice and started a new thread on this "Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers" forum. Please give me your comments there and help me spend my tax refund!
 
#222 ·
1. Your budget: $600-$800


2. Size requirements/limits: Small footprint needed


3. Room dimensions: 2700 cu ft


4. Primary uses: 100% HT


5. Listening habits: Won't cross the -25 db on the master volume much


6. Appearance requirements: Black for media room


7. Timeframe: No Time frame


8. Currently own: Onkyo 708 , B&W Speakers. Plan to upgrade to Paradigm

9. Candidates: (Have not researched physical dimenssions on all just yet)


I am not fan of loudness. Clarity is important. The sub is going sit 2 feet back from me. Appreciate any input.
 
#223 ·
**Edit* went with an Emotiva Ultra 10. Should get it soon.


I spent a lot of time looking at the BIC F12 but then was turned onto the PL200 from chatter here. But then I read that the F12 isn't good for music and the PL-200 isn't that great either. So then I was off to the HSU stuff but it's a bit more expensive. I don't need something that will blow the walls off, but I just need something to fill in the missing pieces from my IQ10s. Some advice shows that a sealed sub is best and there are none at this price range.
Maybe this? http://www.emotiva.com/ultra_sub10.shtm )


If you want to see a photo of my apt layout - (all audio stuff is on wall C right now)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5041556/aptplan.JPG


My current setup is a Denon 789 with 2 KEF iQ10s.


1. Budget: ~$300


2. Size requirements/limits: N/A


3. Room dimensions. Living area - 11x19x8


4. Primary uses: 33/33/33: HT/ Gaming / Music


5. Listening habits. Can't be too ridiculous-I'm in a small studio apt with neighbors on two sides. I don't really go crazy with the volume knob.


6. Appearance requirements: N/A


7. Timeframe. N/A


Thank you.
 
#224 ·
Started a thread not realizing there was an ongoing sub advice thread here.


So far the advice has been to either change the room which isn't an option.


Or getting two subs. How do you know how much sub is enough especially given my situation where the cu ft is much greater due to the open chamber to the main floor.


Would two HSU VTF 15s be enough or overkill? If two is what it takes I'm okay with it. Just not my realm of knowledge.


Okay I have an odd theatre in my basement its


13' from greyhawk stewart screen to mits hc5500 pj

the screen is 106" diagonal

on either side of the screen it's probably 12'


so estimated volume would be 14' x 7' x 33' = 3234 cu ft + open stairwell to mainfloor?!!!?


In other words it's a long skinny room the reason I haven't set up the system going the long way is that it would result in either the left or right main speaker being near a wall which IMO is worse for sound. Plus a few weird bulkheads in the ceiling.


Off to one side of the screen is the stairs leading to the main floor of the house..... unfortunately it is an open staircase with railings and no door.


In my mind this means I have a massive space in terms of volume.


How does that factor in when deciding to get a sub.


Do I go for something like a used REL Britannia B1. I picked this due to it's rep as being good for music and having crazy low freq response. But admittedly that's where my limited knowledge of subs goes.


What are the subwoofer experts thoughts.


Rest of the set up is

meridian 568

emotiva xpa5

focal utopia center

green mountain audio europa max (L and R)

definitive tech rear surrounds (not sure model type they were loaned from a friend but they are old and probably on the low end of the product line)

sources: ps3, xbox 360, hd digital cable, wd tv live

EAR phonostage + technics 1200 + denon dl103 cartridge

Phillips SACD/multichannel player


inherited 12" homemade subwoofer made from a kit


before tweaking the settings that sub could rattle the crystal wine glasses hanging in the bar when watching Transformers 2


and it certainly enhanced things like listening to SACD Darkside of the Moon.... really brings out the heart beat at the beginning of the album


so in terms of HT and audiophile it has certainly held it's own but eventually I would like to upgrade.


budget 1 to 2K


probably looking at 80% movies/vid games 20% vinly and cd


wouldn't mind something with a wood finish for aesthetics but not that important and neither is size an issue.
 
#225 ·
1. Your budget.

I'd honestly like to keep it under $1500, but I can stretch the budget to 2k.


2. Size requirements/limits.

Obviously WAF is a concern, but I can fit anything I want in here. The wife will have to learn to deal with it. Compromise afterall.


3. Room dimensions.

My living room is fairly large and open. It's 5760 cubic feet. The dimensions are 18' (L) x 16' (W) x 20' (T). The room has two large openings as well, one to the kitchen, and the other to the foyer/hallway.


4. Primary uses.

I'd say we are probably pretty close to 60/40 HT/music, but that can vary. Listen to a lot of classical and metal.


Current A/V gear in the room:

TV - Samsung PN58C550 58" plasma

AVR - Denon AVR-3311CI 7.2

Amp - Emotiva UPA-5

R/L - ML Passages

Surrounds - ML Tickets

C - ML Motion C

Bluray - OPPO BDP-93

Toshiba HD-DVD XA2

Direct TV DVR


I've kind of been leaning towards a SVS PB-13 Ultra or PC-13 Ultra, but I see they have 2 B-stock PB-12 + online for $1200 so I can save some dough there. I'm not sure if I can swing a submerssive.
 
#227 ·
1. Your budget: $200 - $400


2. Size requirements/limits: No size limit.


3. Room dimensions: 12ft x 22ft


4. Primary uses: 50% TV, 30% Music, 20% Movies


5. Listening habits: My wife likes hip hop, I like acoustic so we are all over the place.


6. Appearance requirements: Black for media room


7. Timeframe: Within the next month


8. Currently own:

~~Audio Set Up~~

Denon AVR-1910 Receiver

(2) Intimus 5B Bookshelf Speakers (Front)

Intimus 4C Center Channel Speaker

(2) Intimus 4B Satellite Speakers (Rear)

~~Video Set Up~~

Panasonic 50" Plasma

Panasonic Blu Ray

Xbox 360 & Roku Box


9. Candidates: None. Hit me with anything. I will consider ALL models and brand. I am not loyal to any one specific brand here.


THANK YOU TO ANYONE WHO HELPS ME WITH THIS. I am trying to do this the right away to get a better response. I know very little about audio so I am trusting you guys! Thanks.
 
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