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post #1 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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This guy can't possibly be serious. I doubt I'll see an article more ridiculous than this one for a long while:

Quote:


Sony & Toshiba Should Aid HD DVD Owners
HD DVD's exit will leave a bad taste in the mouths of millions.
By Swanni

Washington, D.C. (February 28, 2008) -- Toshiba has a moral responsibility to provide either a discount or refund for the nearly one million people who now own HD DVD players (standalone and XBox players.)

Toshiba, the leading company behind the HD DVD format, announced last week that it would exit the high-def disc business by the end of March, ceding victory to rival Blu-ray.

The decision means that current HD DVD players will soon be nearly obsolete; yes, they will still 'upconvert' standard-def DVDs, but the studios will stop releasing titles in the HD DVD format in the coming weeks.

Asked at a press conference last week about the current HD DVD audience, Toshiba officials basically shrugged their shoulders and said buyers knew what they were getting into -- a high-def format war that would likely produce a loser.

However, that is unacceptable. HD DVD owners committed their hard earned dollars on a brand new technology, giving Toshiba an opportunity to succeed in the war. But Toshiba seems too broken up with its own misfortune to consider the plight of their customers.

At the least, Toshiba should offer HD DVD owners discounts on related Toshiba products, such as high-def sets.

Likewise, Sony, the company behind Blu-ray, has a responsibility here as well because its participation prolonged the format war, leading to more people buying HD DVD players.

In my view, Sony should offer HD DVD owners a discount on Blu-ray players. This would not only be the right thing to do -- but it would keep a sizable number of high-def disc enthusiasts happy.

It would also send a signal to consumers that investing in a unproven technology is a shared risk, that people will not be left holding the bag.

If Toshiba and Sony fail to act, consumers may think twice -- or three times -- the next time they're asked to buy a new electronics product.

I've been burned by making poor format choices in the past.... I don't recall Nintendo hooking me up with an NES discount just because my Sega Master System failed in the market place when I was a kid. Caveat emptor!

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post #2 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 03:58 PM
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Just one man's opinion. However, I wouldn't be shocked if other people felt the same way. I do agree that we all run a risk when investing in new technology.

Making the most out of what I got.
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post #3 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 03:58 PM
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I think that Toshiba has already lost plenty of money.
Blu-ray could have failed, would that mean Sony would be on the hook?
Toshiba was only one of a number of companies pushing HD DVD.
Let it go, already.

Movies look their best when they look like movies. More Patton-esque remasters!

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post #4 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 04:01 PM
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Thats not a real article. Not when the author's name is "Swanni".

He should be banned from writing ever again.
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post #5 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 04:05 PM
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i think it would be great pr and a smart marketing move by sony to offer hd dvd owners the chance to buy a ps3 for $250 for a limited time period.

sony would look magnanimous and would get a very important core of a/v enthusiasts and early adopter aboard the br platform. they could convert hundreds of thousands of former hd owners to new buyers of br movies and ps3 games.

after all the money they spent to get the studios and retail sellers to go br exclusive, this would cost them peanuts in comparision and really jump start br mass adoption.

not likely to happen but it does make some business sense. i as an early hd buyer would take them up on such an offer and would be buying ps3 games and br movies now instead of staying on the sidelines for a year or more waiting for a $200 2.0 player

i don't look to sony or tosh to bail me out for my decision. i knew the chances i was taking. just think this idea has value to sony to accelerate the br community

neflixis our nemesis
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post #6 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolhand View Post

Thats not a real article. Not when the author's name is "Swanni".

He should be banned from writing ever again.

You do realize that Phillip "Swanni" Swann is the president of TVPredictions.com, right?

Granted, I think the whole idea of "let's make the early adopters that got burned feel better" is a little too Utopian for my taste. A lot of the people buying in to HD DVD did so with foreknowledge of what they were getting into, with full awareness that, like any new tech, it was a gamble.

But before you write Swanni off, his prediction accuracy has been pretty good; better, in fact, than more publicized analysts (Ron Enderle comes to mind).

Look at his prediction from December 12, 2007
http://www.tvpredictions.com/swannisix121207.htm

He didn't predict the fallout correctly, but he's the only analyst I've seen go on the record and predict Warner's move correctly, and within the correct time frame.
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post #7 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swanni View Post

At the least, Toshiba should offer HD DVD owners discounts on related Toshiba products, such as high-def sets.

Ummm.....if they didn't have an HD set to begin with, why would they have purchased an HD DVD player???
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post #8 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 04:23 PM
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As a early HD DVD supporter I don't expect any type of compensation from either Toshiba or the BDA. My preferred format lost (though I have owned a BD player for over a year). There are risks in any new format(s), if you are not prepared to lose you should not early adopt. I love my XA2 and the discs I bought on HD DVD but I plan on supporting the next high def optical format and that is Blu-ray. Please don't flame me. I like high def movies and I will not deny myself the pleasure of watching them.

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post #9 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightowl View Post

Ummm.....if they didn't have an HD set to begin with, why would they have purchased an HD DVD player???


Ummm....maybe to utilize the player's sd upconversion capabilities.
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post #10 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 04:28 PM
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Mr. Wally, I'm with you. If nothing else, this is a good boost for CE in the current economic slowdown. Limited time $100 off for a Bluray player, 10% off for a Tosh TV or computer (up to certain ceiling). Everyone is happy. I think the movie studios should chip in too, heck, they want to sell movies.
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post #11 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 05:38 PM
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OK, I can certainly see why someone might think Toshiba has some kind of moral obligation. I disagree, but I can see where he's coming from. But Sony? Toshiba's stubborness and stupidity is hardly their fault. What should they and the rest of BD backers done - give up and anger their own customers, the ones who chose the better, more sustainable format?

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post #12 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 05:45 PM
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CORRECTION

Quote:


Sony & Toshiba Should Aid HD DVD Owners
HD DVD's exit will leave a bad taste in the mouths of about a million.
By Swanni



2014
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post #13 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

This guy can't possibly be serious. I doubt I'll see an article more ridiculous than this one for a long while:

"Likewise, Sony, the company behind Blu-ray, has a responsibility here as well because its participation prolonged the format war, leading to more people buying HD DVD players."

Since Swanni feels that Sony has a responsibility for people buying Toshiba players, maybe Swanni has a responsibility too, since he could have warned people much earlier. Or reporters in general, since as a group they prolonged the format war compared to what they could have done (like all picked the eventual winner correctly a long time ago).

If Sony wants to do something as a business decision I don't see anything wrong with that, but if Blu-ray had lost I sure wouldn't feel that Toshiba had a responsibility to people who bought Sony players instead of Toshiba players, and it seems rather ridiculous to me for Sony to have a responsibility because Toshiba decided to fight Sony and most of the industry this time after Sony gave into Toshiba on DVD and then some people chose not to take Sony's advice on HDM and bought the competition instead of them.

For the group I'm in that bought players for both formats I think it is especially ridiculous for any of us to feel that one of the sides owes us something because we bought a format that has lost, but if offers are made to people with HD DVD players, it would have to include people that already own both formats.

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post #14 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 05:58 PM
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I can't imagine Sony, Matsushita or any other member of the BDA being upset if people are mad at Toshiba.

Quote:


He should be banned from writing ever again.

Swanni knew you were going to write that even before you did.

Isn't he the guy that got the launch date wrong about 1000 times before for he lucked across the eventual launch date for CNN-HD?
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post #15 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 06:12 PM
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i don't think tosh owes us hd owners anything. they gave us a superb product at prices far below the br offerings. they did their best and lost. if you want to be angry with anyone on the hd dvd team it should be ms as they could have done a lot more to support the format. how about add ons to the 360 for $50. that would have spurred a lot more sales. how about ponying up some cash to keep warner neutral or hd exclusive. looks to me ms got into this thing just to make sony lose a bundle in their gaming division.

still think sony would be real smart to throw a bone to hd owners.

neflixis our nemesis
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post #16 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 06:16 PM
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no one held a gun to my head this is stupid
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post #17 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

i think it would be great pr and a smart marketing move by sony to offer hd dvd owners the chance to buy a ps3 for $250 for a limited time period.

sony would look magnanimous and would get a very important core of a/v enthusiasts and early adopter aboard the br platform. they could convert hundreds of thousands of former hd owners to new buyers of br movies and ps3 games.

after all the money they spent to get the studios and retail sellers to go br exclusive, this would cost them peanuts in comparision and really jump start br mass adoption.

not likely to happen but it does make some business sense. i as an early hd buyer would take them up on such an offer and would be buying ps3 games and br movies now instead of staying on the sidelines for a year or more waiting for a $200 2.0 player

i don't look to sony or tosh to bail me out for my decision. i knew the chances i was taking. just think this idea has value to sony to accelerate the br community

There are some of us who just don't WANT a game machine-- BD-player included or not!
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post #18 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovenola2 View Post

There are some of us who just don't WANT a game machine-- BD-player included or not!

understood. but if sony wants me to jump on the br bandwagon now, i want something i can upgrade to 2.0 when its finally released. so ps3 it is.

plus from sony's point of view, it they're going to provide an incentive to hd owners, the ps3 makes the most sense because of the potential for games and movie sales.

neflixis our nemesis
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post #19 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 06:57 PM
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I'd gladly take a Blu-Ray player from Sony if they

A. Provide me with a 2.0 player
B. Replaced my 26 movies
C. Do it all for the 400 bucks I spent on the above.

Oh that cant be possible your say? Well guess I feel great about my purchases then
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post #20 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 08:22 PM
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This is the typical take-no-responsibility complaining that is all too common today; similar to the people harping for a government bailout on their 103%, LTV adjustable-rate home loans.

There is no reward without risk.

Avarice
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post #21 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave-137 View Post

no one held a gun to my head this is stupid

Yep. I bought an A20 for $299, Matrix collection for $69, and other titles for $14-25 last year. I basically forked out over $400-500 in 3-4 months on a now dead format.
I did this consciously knowing that HD DVD may die like it has but I'm not angry. It's the price of early adoption and anyone not willing to risk hundreds of dollars during the early adoption phase when there are 2 formats completing, you have no business buying during early adoption or shouldn't be asking for refunds or rebates when your format of choice is dead.

2014
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post #22 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 08:34 PM
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Remember this is America. If I wake up late for work someone else is responsible.

I think Toshiba should be responsible for punitive damages and we should also be compensated for mental anguish.

Also looking for compensation on my 8-track's, cassette's, Beta tape's, MD's, DAT's, CED's LD's, and Elcaste's
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post #23 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post

Remember this is America. If I wake up late for work someone else is responsible.

I think Toshiba should be responsible for punitive damages and we should also be compensated for mental anguish.

Also looking for compensation on my 8-track's, cassette's, Beta tape's, MD's, DAT's, CED's LD's, and Elcaste's

Exactly. Blame anyone but me. Some people are just complainers. Anyone who bought in HD DVD (including myself) probably fit all of the following:

1) knew there was a format war and Toshiba could lose, or were willfully ignorant to that fact.

2) bought an HD DVD machine at substantial discount (not true of first generation models for the most part), in essence getting a good machine for cheaper than it would normally go for

3) got subsidies like 5 free movies and potentially other discounts on discs to help build a library

And yet some will still complain!
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post #24 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 09:18 PM
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Quote:


Ummm.....if they didn't have an HD set to begin with, why would they have purchased an HD DVD player???

Quote:


Ummm....maybe to utilize the player's sd upconversion capabilities.

LOL! Remind me, what do you watch upconverted DVDs on again?
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post #25 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 09:23 PM
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Considering the extremely low disposable income of mine I would wholeheartedly welcome swap moves by Studios and the CEs.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #26 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 09:29 PM
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Dumb, I knew what I was doing, no one had me under the gun.

Add HDDVD to my graveyard of dead tech

C-64
Commodore Amiga
Colecovision
Atari 2600
Sega Dreamcast
3DO

I'd love to get my hands on a Blu Monster's Ball.-LilStinky

Refering to a possible release of said movie on BD LOL
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post #27 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 09:31 PM
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The article follows my own sentiments pretty well.

The question isn't about being "fair" or "nice", the question is: what is good business.

It is good business for Sony to reach out to HD DVD supporters and try to bring them on board. It will be good business for Toshiba to remember that they will want to sell folks something else later.

Some sort of trade-in or compensation is very strongly in the interest of these companies. You only need read this forum to understand this.

Also: Whether you agree or not with this column, consider the following. "Swanni" is doing a very good job of covering the entire HDTV marketplace. I read a ton of stuff every day, and his column is a good summary. [I have also contributed to his column and periodically correspond with him, he knows his stuff. If he does make a mistake, he fixes it.] I think that what he has done in the last year is also very much improved.

Folks, please reconsider these posts.
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post #28 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 09:46 PM
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I think if anyone owes anything to the HD-DVD early adopters its Toshiba. They could've prevented this format war from the beginning by not letting their greed get the best of them and push an inferior physical disk for DVD royalties. If they had thought about the best interest of the consumer they would have compromised with the other Japanese manufacturers and gone on to produce good bluray players that wouldn't be paperweights now. THEY should be offering trade-ins for any model that cost more than $200. The fire sale models can be excluded, as most owners probably bought them to be upconverters anyway.
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post #29 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 09:54 PM
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In 2006-2007 Toshiba did the right thing by promoting their HD DVD format due to it's finalized specifications and the uncertainty that was prevailing in the Blu-ray camp. Put the blame on Warner for not switching sides before CES'2007.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #30 of 50 Old 02-28-2008, 09:57 PM
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Yeah... I agree, the consumer shares in the responsibility. I must point out however that both Sony and Toshiba promoted their products as if they were the sole HD alternative. Nobody that bought an HD DVD player or HD DVD's deserves anything except the harsh reality of what spending their hard earned money on a format battle has bought them. This could deter a lot of electronics purchases in the future form the very same people and allow righteousness from those who refused to buy either format to this point.

I also think there would be incentives for the BDA to offer some kind of olive branch to HD DVD consumers. There are a lot of them that feel burned and have no intention of latching on to another format even if it appears to be the only one. I think while the BDA have claimed victory in the HDM arena, they are missing the boat big time on progressing consumers to Blu-Ray from SD-DVD. They longer they keep prices out of reach for the average consumer and refuse to recognize the 100's of thousands that chose HD DVD, the more at risk they put their format from serious competition from other future ideas, formats, and delivery sources.

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