Total Recall DVDs vs Blu-ray (USA) vs HD DVD (Australia) comparison PIX - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 43 Old 06-15-2008, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Total Recall - 2 DVDs vs Blu-ray (USA) vs HD DVD (Australia) Screenshot Comparison

Other sources to check out:
DVDBeaver's France UE vs USA vs USA SLE DVD Comparison
DVD-Heaven's Germany WMV-HD vs Germany SE DVD vs Germany DVD vs USA SLE DVD Comparison

I do wonder if the WMV-HD is really as dark as DVD-Heaven's screencaps. Lots of crushing going on there. Anyone have the German 3-disc?

This took a long ass time so I hope I'm not the only one interested. Quote from my stats/thoughts page:
Quote:


Gigantic comparison here, I know, but there's a lot of things to illustrate. I compiled this comparison from two sources outside of my own pics, so I'm not completely sure I got the exact matching frame on some shots, and I couldn't always get every frame from each source. Also, unfortunately the USA DVD and Australia HD DVD pics are all JPG instead of PNG.

In addition to the screenshots I've included MP3s comparing the BD to the higher-pitched UK DVD (people have said the HD DVD is also higher-pitched).

The DVDs and Blu-ray clearly come from the same source with somewhat tweaked colors/levels/framing. The USA DVD and BD are practically identical in these aspects. The HD DVD must have used a better print, but it has a totally new framing, left, right, top, and bottom. To my eyes the HD DVD colors also appear oversaturated and overtweaked in many of these pics, especially the first vision of Mars where it no longer has an earthy tone.

The BD has plenty of MPEG-2 blocks that should be visible in these shots, and it's tough to tell whether there's real grain "beneath" this artificial layer, but in motion it certainly appears grainy. The HD DVD clearly has some grain that VC-1 appears to handle fine.

Both the Blu-ray and the HD DVD use digital scratch removal not present on the DVDs, the HD DVD moreso. In 0-06-42;21 you can see how scratches appear in the same places on the DVD and BD, and the BD has them partially removed. Unfortunately this isn't without its own associated artifacts. In 0-12-23;14, the wire on the woman's stylus has been partly erased and replaced with a fake texture of the keyboard behind it. Also note how an actual scratch smaller than this section of the wire is only partly removed. The partial wire removal happens to a smaller section in at least one other frame of this scene.

See that little yellow crescent on the right of 1-38-41;07 that's partially erased in the BD and only remains as the ghost of a smear in the HD DVD? That's a shell from the soldier's gun. It flies out in an arc over several frames, and is obviously something that shouldn't have been painted out. In these shots you can also see that another shell from the other soldier's gun is removed from the HD DVD, and parts of the hologram are missing from both high def presentations. Some other shells are removed in other frames of the BD. Luckily these objects are moving quickly so it's not really possible to see that anything's missing in motion (for the BD, at least). But I for one would rather have specks and scratches than have anything that SHOULD be there removed by mistake. I only caught these instances because I happened to take screenshots of these scenes, so who knows what else is missing...

In addition, the soldiers' uniforms appear smeared on the HD DVD, particularly the one's back. Is there DNR in this shot?

There is a slight loss in the BD 720p downscale, but checking at 300%, it appears it's just the blurring of block boundaries, not real detail. I included 576p in addition to the 480p out of curiosity, since the UK DVD is 576. There is a slight difference between the two on the man's left shoulder, but the big drop is from 720 to 576. I'd say this is around 720p detail level. I don't think it would be fair to test the HD DVD since I only have access to JPGs, but it appears to be a bit better while still around 720p.

Shame that they didn't port over any good extras from the DVDs to high def. The UK DVD was worth the $13 for the extras to me.

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post #2 of 43 Old 06-15-2008, 06:57 AM
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The HD DVD is definitely better. No contest. Hope that the U.K BD will be same or better than the HD DVD transfer.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #3 of 43 Old 06-15-2008, 07:04 AM
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The BRD transfer is obviously old and the HD-DVD is way too bright with blown highlights and grain in the now overexposed areas of the frame. Like Robocop this movie badly needs a new properly done transfer.

The scratch removal artifacts are really interesting (and scary!). Hopefully they don't use that kind of automatic processing anymore or if they do it's carefully supervised. It's still ruining animated tv shows though.
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post #4 of 43 Old 06-15-2008, 07:10 AM
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I would say neither is very good.

Good movies are as rare as an on topic discussion.
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post #5 of 43 Old 06-15-2008, 09:23 AM
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The HD DVD is better because although it is brighter contrast is still maintained and clarity as well.
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post #6 of 43 Old 06-15-2008, 10:15 AM
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Scratch removal, hm... Makes sense. I only looked at some minutes of the HD-DVD a year ago and immediately saw flickering typical of scratch removal going astray.
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post #7 of 43 Old 06-15-2008, 10:55 AM
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I think the USA Blu-ray looks better than the HD DVD - more natural, less blown-out brightness. However, the film could use a superior restoration.

Vote with your wallet. Don't buy Cinavia-infected Blu-ray Discs! Why pay a premium for pseudo-lossless audio damaged by an intrusive watermark in the audible spectrum?
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post #8 of 43 Old 06-15-2008, 11:35 AM
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Total Recall needs a new restoration. Those scratch removal artefacts are terrible.
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post #9 of 43 Old 06-16-2008, 02:39 PM
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For the USA Artisan Special Edition DVD:



Disc Size: 7,639,756,800 bytes

Michael

Collection: DVD | High-def
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post #10 of 43 Old 06-17-2008, 09:21 AM
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I have the Blu-ray version and I don't think it's that bad on my 60" display. Could it look better? Most likely. Maybe for a double dip Lionsgate will remaster it one day, but i'm fine with the current version.

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post #11 of 43 Old 06-24-2008, 11:56 AM
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The clips shown on the DTheater trailer are superior to both the BD and the HD-DVD. Hands down. So it CAn look better and it should.

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post #12 of 43 Old 06-25-2008, 05:56 AM
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Wow. I guess memory doesn't serve me well on this one. When I saw the HD-DVD I thought it looked softer than what I remembered of the DTheatrer trailer. Of course, at the time DTheater was first released any HD material was impressive.

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post #13 of 43 Old 06-25-2008, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Nice to know that similar bitrate MPEG-2 can indeed handle this just fine (does D-Theater use CBR?). Lionsgate just screwed us.

Yes, DTheater is CBR

A DTheater with 576 Kbps DD = 23.00 Mbps CBR MPEG-2
A DTheater with 1536 Kbps DTS = 21.50 Mbps CBR MPEG-2
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post #14 of 43 Old 06-25-2008, 03:13 PM
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Wow - thanks for those screencaps! I also thought the D-Theater trailer looked better than the BD, because the BD upon watching seemed really dark and soft whereas I remember the trailer being very bright and crisp, like the HD DVD caps, when Arnie's losing the woman disguise.
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post #15 of 43 Old 06-25-2008, 03:29 PM
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All the clips in the DTheater trailer have been brightened. The Reservoir Dogs clips in particular are scorching.
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post #16 of 43 Old 06-25-2008, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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The levels in that D-Theater shot match my BD shot. If you're seeing a difference beyond colors it's a browser issue.

A little while back I noticed that IE6 (can't speak for other versions) darkens some PNGs vs Firefox and every image viewer I've tried (and vs the original BMP in IE). This also happens to Xylon's old pics but not his new ones, but he said he hasn't changed anything. He also said whatever IE version he uses doesn't have the problem.
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post #17 of 43 Old 06-25-2008, 07:44 PM
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Once I sell my HD DVD import I am gonna put the new UK Blu-ray on order. Probably the same transfer as the HD DVD but we'll see.

Michael

Collection: DVD | High-def
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post #18 of 43 Old 06-26-2008, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

The HD DVD is definitely better. No contest. Hope that the U.K BD will be same or better than the HD DVD transfer.

I agree. I have the BD version of this, but I should really import the HD DVD of this to see the difference myself.

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post #19 of 43 Old 06-28-2008, 01:43 PM
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Well, I received the HD DVD yesterday. and within a few minutes of watching, I thought; "Man, the pitch issue is horrid on this. Why the hell did I buy this?". After a while though, I got adjusted to it, and it didn't bother me too much. The PQ on this, though - stunning(compared to the Lionsgate BD). Looks fantastic. Not even in the same league as the domestic BD. Sadly, I'd be willing to put up with the pitch issue just for the better PQ here. It's like night and day. Everything looks so much better. With those screenshots looking overblown in the colors (especially the one guy having a pinkish facial skin tone)...it looked natural on my set. It's not calibrated by a professional, but I've used the Joe Kane discs as well as old video game systems (yes, I use simple color schemed old gaming systems to check colors because I know how they're supposed to look). I paid about $25.50 for the HD DVD, and bought the BD a while back, probably on a BOGO or a B2G1 sale...don't remember. If only I could pair the HD DVD video with the BD audio.
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post #20 of 43 Old 06-30-2008, 07:28 AM
 
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Well I own the first edition of Total Recall' (1990) on region 2 DVD that was realised (2001) I still own this version. The LCR fronts sound okay, all expect the monaural surrounds that sound like they've been filtered off at 200Hz I mean its got nothing above 200Hz its as if the surrounds where filtered off with crossover or high-pass filter, plus there is odd popping and cracking on the surrounds that sounds rather alarming at times, because you think your surrounds have just been buggered in!

LFE.1 is okay as well no complaints expect the surrounds!

I may by the newer version that was relished a few years ago as two-disc DVD set?
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post #21 of 43 Old 07-31-2008, 02:31 AM
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U.K BD Review

http://www.dvdactive.com/reviews/dvd/total-recall2.html

Good news is we have the best AV presentation of the movie that doesn't seem to suffer from high pitch audio.
Bad news is there are no extras as announced earlier.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #22 of 43 Old 08-11-2008, 04:13 PM
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Nice to see my work going to good use.

Quote:


The PQ on this, though - stunning(compared to the Lionsgate BD). Looks fantastic. Not even in the same league as the domestic BD. Sadly, I'd be willing to put up with the pitch issue just for the better PQ here. It's like night and day. Everything looks so much better. With those screenshots looking overblown in the colors (especially the one guy having a pinkish facial skin tone)...it looked natural on my set.

Although I don;t notice the pitch issue (Been living in PAL land way to long) I whole hartedly agree the video presentation on the HDDVD is fantastic. Every time I pop this title on I'm throughly impressed.

International HDDVD Screenshot Archive (Full 1080p Images): www.hdmovies.co.nz
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post #23 of 43 Old 08-11-2008, 04:22 PM
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The BRD looks too dark and soft and the HD-DVD looks too bright like it was boosted.. Then there's the scratch removal garbage on both. This title needs a real remaster.
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post #24 of 43 Old 08-13-2008, 05:50 PM
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Anyone know of any us sites that carry the uk bd? The transfer seems far better on the new blu ray(and HD-DVD).
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post #25 of 43 Old 08-26-2008, 05:30 PM
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Damn it Cohagen! Give dees peeple der air!!
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post #26 of 43 Old 10-07-2008, 05:15 PM
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Anyone want to comment on the UK Blu-ray before I buy it? I know it looks better than the domestic version and this title doesn't seem to get as dipped as much by Lionsgate as some other movies.
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post #27 of 43 Old 10-07-2008, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

Anyone want to comment on the UK Blu-ray before I buy it? I know it looks better than the domestic version and this title doesn't seem to get as dipped as much by Lionsgate as some other movies.

It's identical to the HD DVD, but the sound now has the correct pitch.

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post #28 of 43 Old 10-07-2008, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

Anyone want to comment on the UK Blu-ray before I buy it? I know it looks better than the domestic version and this title doesn't seem to get as dipped as much by Lionsgate as some other movies.

Every VFX shot has extreme DNR. The worst I've ever seen! Seriously. I think The Longest Day caps look better as I don't see extreme motion trailing in those. I can't believe no one else who's seen it has mentioned this yet.

90% of the movie does look awesome though and escapes mostly free of DNR, and if you can handle the different framing which I didn't notice while watching, it's a total overhaul vs the crappy Lionsgate release. That other 10% is a definite downgrade and pisses me off as I wanted to give this release mad props until I noticed the truly excessive digital "fixing" of the source print.

Anyone who complains about print artifacts beware... Just like the complaints about grain probably leading to DNR, this is how they'll fix it rather than going to a better print (if one is even available - I suspect the grit is just baked into the opticals).

I took a ton of screenshots and meant to post them a while ago but got sidetracked, hopefully I'll get around to it shortly.

The colors on mine don't seem quite as over-the-top as Gooki's JPEGs despite being the same encode. I guess his decoder was adding some saturation.
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post #29 of 43 Old 10-07-2008, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Here, I'll just do it quick and easy...

I'd say the StudioCanal encode is definitely sourced from a new/better master than Lionsgate's. I don't believe it's possible to grab the extra detail and grain out of the Blu-ray or D-Theater promo caps no matter how much processing is used. Perhaps Mr. Hanky can prove me wrong?

Some of these illustrate the DNR and some are just to show the general contrast/color and framing difference throughout.

I can't say for certain but it appears most of the movie apart from the terrible VFX sequences appears to have a light Warner-style high frequency filtering and then one scene escapes it and shines through with full grain and detail. Can you pick out which shot shows this? If not maybe I am imagining this (though I believe the shift is more noticeable in motion).





























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post #30 of 43 Old 10-07-2008, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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The StudioCanal encode does have a heavier digital scratch removal filter applied. Here, it's missing the same real detail as the Lionsgate plus the actual scratches are removed:



The following two frame comparisons illustrate what the VFX shots actually look like on this release, followed by exactly what they WOULD HAVE looked like without the heavy-handed processing. Like with Dark City, the people doing the DNR were imprecise and let some frames slip through.

Timecodes are 1:46:35;12 and 1:46:35;13 (i.e. one frame later).



During this entire sequence, the final 2 frames of each shot lack the DNR applied to the rest of the footage. The movement of the frame suddenly snaps from the blended many-frames-behind moment to real-time. It's tough to describe but it's visible in motion and I'd call it "disconcerting" but not distracting. It's something you might notice subconciously without picking up what the hell it is that just happened.

Perhaps the worst part is that the movie actually ends on an excrutiatingly long DNR'd scene.



The DNR is WORSE in motion because the trailing caused by the temporal blending ends up resulting in a strange kind of slow-motion type effect. In one shot, details and ONE-FRAME print artifacts fade in and out over the course of EIGHT frames. They clearly did this to "fix" the constant flickering evident in these shots on Lionsgate's release, and it did actually work. But the digital garbage result is far more destructive and annoying than this analog flickering issue.

Besides that, since they applied this heavy processing only to the VFX shots, the movie cuts between grainless and smoothed to grainy and detailed often. Very noticeable and kind of distracting.

I guess the people doing this "restoration" work just hate the way old optical effects look with all of the artifacts associated with that technology. Personally I kind of find them charming, and they don't take me out of the experience since I've grown used to them and come to expect a certain look ever since watching the "Faces" THX Star Wars VHS releases all the time as a kid.

I think some people go into these movies expecting and wanting them to look like new releases. Not me. And I'm 21...
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