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post #91 of 112 Old 01-16-2011, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuelradons View Post

Some neutral info on LD vs Bluray from a person who has a lot to do with the topic. I have discussed all of the following with both sound engineers and computer scientists. And I have, of course, put in a lot of my own experience.

The first important fact is, that until the early 90s movies were recorded in stereo (or mono before that). Then, in the early 90s, Dolby Surround came up. When it comes to sound engineering this was a significant seizure.
Laserdiscs were developed in the mid to late 70s (depending on how you count). Back then they were called Laservision-Discs and had but a single analogue-stereo-track on them. In the mid-80s they got an additional digital stereo track and were renamed Laserdisc.
Both tracks were compression-free. And as the Laserdisc-system was a rather prestigious enterprise the Laserdisc Audio-Masters were often, though not always, direct copies of the original film masters (or at least of copies of them).
And: While the master-tapes of a film are likely to deteriorate over time, the Laserdiscs data-layer is well protected by approx 2mm of a protective plastic-layer. This is as close as a time capsule for the sound as it gets.
So, when it comes to films of the stereo-era the Laserdiscs of those films have pretty much the best sound that anyone can hear them in at this point in time.

Three things stand in the way of getting a similar quality today. The first one is, as stated, deterioration of the originals. Today those originals would have to be remastered first. Remastering always means to change the original because you have to more or less estimate what data has been lost and then creatively re-add it. That process has to be overseen by an experienced audio-engineer. Those cost money - which most releases of older films aren't allowed to do, except they are classic blockbusters like Star Wars (where the companies have to uphold a certain reputation).
So usually some doofus intern, or a former employee who was fired and then rehired as an intern to save money will hushhush the whole procedure and then upscale it into - the second problem - a 7.1 Surround soundtrack that is then - problem three - mildly compressed because even on a Bluray there's no space for 8 uncompressed audio channels.
So, while the Bluray is, theoratically, capable of containing more data, and thus higher quality Audio than LD, older films are prohibited to have that quality on BR due to the passing of time, money-issues, carelessness, marketing strategy and sheer physics - because: Though the compression of the Bluray is called loss-free there simply is no such thing as a loss-free audio-compression. There is a compression that is so relatively loss-free that you won't hear the difference on your average stereo. But - trust me - on a Studio-Monitor it's like comparing an oil-painting with its course, 3-dimensional surface to a very high-resolving carefully lit photo of that same painting. It may fool you for a certain time but it stays oddly artificial and flat.
Fine colourings get lost first during compression. Espacially voices that can have an almost corporeal presence on Laserdisc loose a lot of their shape and physical weight.
In an action movie that doesn't really matter. But listen to a monologue like Brando's Horror-Speach form Apocalypse Now - and it's worlds apart. On LD you get to feel an actual physical imprint of the actors charisma.

However all that counts for older movies. The picture changes when it comes to films of the surround-era.
Here you simply can't give definitive statements anymore. Laserdisc wasn't made for Surround. It simply had no space on it left for additional tracks. Thus the implentation of it on LD is, by todays (BR-)standard, rather poor. The Dolby data-rate on LD is even smaller than it's DVD-counterpart. The later DTS LDs have about twice the bandwidth of DVD but still a lot less than BR. But LD still had it's uncompressed Streo-tracks.
So for films from the 90s it really depends: Was the Film made with alternate Surround and Stereo Versions (Dolby wasnt very common in theatres then)? Was there a real stereo version on the disc plus some additional effects when you had the equipment or did you miss something when you had no Surround? Etc.
Generally the LDs from the 90s still kick the DVDs butt. But not necessarily the BRs, which was designed for maximum Surround-performance. Unimportant re-releases of not-so-succesful movies will still sound better on LD due to careless mastering on BR (many BRs even contain a DVD soundtrack that has merely been decompressed and then put on the BR, unaltered).
Also it's a matter of taste. LDs usually sound more "mature", balanced, lucid, while BR cleary puts an emphasis on spectacular effects like lighnings, explosions or objects audibly moving from one side of the room to the next.
Personally, when watching a BR I sometimes feel treatd like a child that has to be entertained constantly with new, exciting sensations every couple of minutes.
Which makes sense for some movies, like Independence Day, where I absolutely prefer the BR . - But I'm definitely NEVER gonna buy a Dolby-True-HD-7.1-Master-Version of Breakfast at Tiffanys...

The recordings weren't just stereo before the 90's. MCH recordings existed all the way back to Fantasia back in the 40's. and true discrete surround dates back at the end of 70's. The reason home video formats like VHS and LD was stereo only because of the lack of a delivery system to home, and the fact that very few mch HT existed if any at the time.
DTS on LD didn't have twice the "bandwidth" as you put it, in fact it has less of everything [sampling rate bit depth, and bit rate] by the limitation of the technology at the time then what DVD could handle. DTS came up with the half bit rate encode, so it could gain acceptance from studios so they could use it a marketing tool to generate sales from people who believed in DTS's superiority over DD. The 1509kbps DTS with 24 bit and 96khz sampling simply didn't exist on LD but it surely does on DVD.It is rarely used however, because it uses up quiet of the available bandwidth and storage on DVD as well. LD had 44.1khz 16bit 1235kbps DTS encodes, I'm sure it could have used the latest encodes, but it would have required to update the players to handle it. Since LD never achieved a greater then 2% penetration of the US market this was probably not something either the content providers or CE companies wanted to do especially with the advance of DVD sales in a short time.

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post #92 of 112 Old 01-25-2011, 04:36 PM
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Here a quote from wikipedia.

DTS encoded Laserdisc have fullbitrate DTS soundtracks (1536 kb/s) instead of the "half" bitrate (768 kb/s) DTS tracks often used on DVDs.

- Theoretically you can even put an uncompressed 7-channel pcm-sountrack onto a DVD since it's only a data carrier. But as you said yourself: There just isn't enough space on it.

PS: I knew about Phantasia and Quadrophonic sound. But not about the others. Thanks for the info there. (Strange. Not even my sound-engineer knew about them.)
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post #93 of 112 Old 01-29-2011, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuelradons View Post

- Theoretically you can even put an uncompressed 7-channel pcm-sountrack onto a DVD since it's only a data carrier. But as you said yourself: There just isn't enough space on it.

7.1 PCM surround is not part of the DVD-Video specification. So even if there was room for it, you wouldn't be able to include that on a DVD-Video disc.

David Mackenzie
DVD/BD Compressionist/Author
Reviewer & Tech Consultant, HDTVtest
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post #94 of 112 Old 01-29-2011, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuelradons View Post

Here a quote from wikipedia.

DTS encoded Laserdisc have fullbitrate DTS soundtracks (1536 kb/s) instead of the "half" bitrate (768 kb/s) DTS tracks often used on DVDs.

Is wikipedia correct on that? The earliest dts laserdiscs like Jurassic Park or maybe it was Independence Day had higher bitrates than the later ones.
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post #95 of 112 Old 01-30-2011, 11:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narcopolo View Post

Is wikipedia correct on that? The earliest dts laserdiscs like Jurassic Park or maybe it was Independence Day had higher bitrates than the later ones.

There were a few, a very few full rate DTS DVDs I own The Peacemaker and a few others like Blade

The full list is:

6th Day (JAP)
12 Monkeys (US)
36, Quai des orfèvres (France & Czech French track)
36 Collector's Edition (France) *French Languages only*
1408 R3 (HK)
3,000 Miles from Graceland (Jap)
Abandonned, The (FR)
Adaptation (dts) R2 (Jpn)
Akira (Jap & Taiwan)
Alive - 2 Disc set & CD (JAP) *No English Subtitles
Amelie (Finland)
American Pie - Platinum Edition (GER) *German language track only*
Amistad (US)
Anaconda - Hi-Bit Edition (Jap)
Antz (US)
Apollo 13 (US)
Appleseed (JAP) *No English subs
Armageddon (Jap)
Austin Powers: International Man Of Mystery (JAP)
Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me (JAP)
Aviator (3 disc) LE (HK)
Avalon (JAP & Korean)
Babe (US)
Babel: Premier Edition R2 (Jpn)
Banquet, The (HK)
Basic Instinct (JAP)
Battle Royal (HK)
Battle Royale Special Edition: Director's Cut Starmax (Korea)
Being John Malkovich (Jap)
Below (FRA, POL)
Blade (Jap)
Bless the child (JAP)
Blues Brother 2000 (US)
Blue Light, the (Denmark)
Boogeyman (HK)
Boondock Saints, the SE (Scandinavia)
Born on the Forth of July (US)
Boxer, the (US)
Brokeback Mountain: Premium Edition R2 (Jpn)
Bulletproof Monk Scanbox Ltd (Denmark)
Butterfly Effect, the Director's cut (Denmark)
Butterfly Lovers 40 (Taiwan)
Card Player aka 'Karetni Hrac' (Czech)
Casshern DTS-ES (JAP & Thailand)
Cell, the (JAP)
Children of Men: Premuim Edition R2 (JAP)
Chinese Tall Story, A (Avant-Garde edition) 96/24 (HK)
Chocolat (JAP)
Chronicles Of Riddick,the 'Theatrical cut' (Thailand)
Chuck Berry Hail Hail Rock'n'Roll (US)
Cider House Rules the (Japan)
City by the sea (JAP)
Classic, the (JAP)
Classic, the Music Box Edition (JAP)
Cliffhanger (JAP)
Code 46 R2 (Scan)
Cooler, the (UK)
Constant Gardener, The R2 (Jpn)
Core, The (Jap)
Crimson River 2, the (FR) *French lanuage track only*
Curry and Pepper (Golden Collection) (HK)
Cursed (HK)
Cutthroat Island (Jap)
Dancer in the Dark (JAP)
Dances With Wolves (Jap, UK, Korea & US)
Dante's Peak (US)
Day After Tomorrow (R6)
Daylight (US)
Dead End Run (Jap)
Dead Fish (Scandinavia)
Death Proof (HK)
Death Sentence (HK)
Death Watch (Sweden)
Departed, The (HK) (CN)
Der Untergang-The Downfall (France) *german language track only*
Der Untergang Extended Edition 3 disc (NL)
Descent, the (UK)
Devil Wears Prada, The (R6)
Die Hard (HK)
Die Hard 2 (HK
Die Hard 3 (HK
Die Hard 4.0 (HK)
Dobermann (FR)
Dog Soldiers (Sweden & Denmark)
DOA dead or alive (HK)
DON GIOVANNI (3 Disc) (France)
Double Agent (HK)
Dracula 2000 (JAP)
Dragonheart (US)
Dragon Tiger Gate (HK)
Dune (AU)
Dune: Director's Cut (mini-series) (US)
Eagles Hell Freezes Over (US)
Eagles-the farewell tour part 1 (US)
EDtv (US)
Edward Scissorhands (R6)
Enemy at the Gates (UK)
Equilibrium (French)
Eragon (HK)
Evil Dead (French)
Evil Dead: 20th Anniversary Edition R2 (Jpn)
Evita (Australia) - New Version
Fantastic 4 (HK)
Fantastic 4 and the Rise of the Silver Surfer (HK)
Fear dot com (JAP)
Fifth Element, the (UK)
Flashpoint -- R0 (HK)
Final Cut (Scandinavia)
Flintstones, the (US)
For Richer or Poorer (US)
Fredy Vs Jason (EDKO) DTS-ES (HK)
Frequency (Jap)
First Blood SE (JAP)
Fulltime Killer (Denamrk)
Galaxy Quest (US)
Gackt - Live Tour 2004 the Sixth Day and Seventh Night (JAP)
Ghosts of The Abyss (Jap)
G.I. Jane Jupitor Gold Ed (Scandinavia)
Ginger Snaps (Sweden)
Girl with a Pearl Earring (HK)
Godsend deluxe edition Scanbox Ltd (Denmark)
Goldfrapp Supernature (SACD) bonus DVD
Great Raid, the (HK)
Great Yokai War, The. (HK)
H (Hypnosis) (Denmark)
Hannibal Rising: Premium Edition R2 (Jpn)
Happy Feet (KOR)
Hardball (dts) R2 (Jpn)
Hard Rain (JAP & Korean)
Harts War (Jap)
Head in the clouds (Japan)
Hero (JAP)
Hero (EDKO) DTS-ES (HK)
Hostage (Ger) *German language track only*
House of flying Daggers (HK & UK)
I'll Sleep When I'm Dead (Scandinavia)
Il Mare-The Perfect Collection (JAP)
Imposter (JAP)
In Enemy Hands (HK)
In The Mood For Love (JAP)
In the mouth of madness (JAP)
Infernal Affairs (Denmark)
Infernal Affairs Trilogy LE BOX(HK & korea)
Infernal Affairs Trilogy: Complete Collector's Edition (Indonesia)
Initial D (R3)
Insomnia R3 (Taiwan)
Interview with the Vampire (US)
Jackal, The (US)
Jacket, The (HK)
Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back (R2/Scandinavia)
Jean Michel Jarre - Jarre in China (R2, R3, R4, R5)
Jeepers Creepers (Finland)
Jeepers Creepers - Platinum Edition (GER) *German language track only*
Jiang Hu - Blood Brothers (HK)
JIN-ROH (US)
Johnny Mnemonic (Scan)
John Q R2 (Jpn)
Ju-on (KOREA)
Ju-on 2 (HK)
Just Friends (Scan)
Kill Bill Vol.1 (Croatia)
L.A. Confidential (JP)
Ladder 49: Premuim Edition R2 (Jpn)
Lake Placid (Jap)
La Mentale R2 'The Code' (France) *French language track only*
L'empire des loups (France)
Les Rivieres Pourpres 'The Crimson Rivers' (France) *French language track only*
Les Rivieres Pourpres (JAP) *French subtitles - No English subs
Les Rivieres Pourpres 2 (JAP) *French subtitles - No English subs
Lethal Weapon (US)
Lethal Weapon 2 (US)
Lethal Weapon 3 (US)
Liar, Liar (US)
Little Rascals (US)
Lord of War (Sweden)
Machinist, the Scanbox Ltd (Denmark)
Madhouse (HK)
Mad Max (Roadshow) (AUS)
Man Apart, A (Taiwan)
Man on Fire: Premium Edition R2 (Jpn)
Mary Shelley's Frankenstein Hi-Bit Edition (JAP)
Matador, the (Scandinavia)
Michael Vaillant DTS-ES (JAP)
Monster Scanbox Ltd (Denmark)
Moon Child LE (JAP)
Mouse Hunt (US)
Memento (NL)
Memories LE (Taiwan) *No English subtitles
Mercury Rising (US)
Mist, The (dts) R3 (HK)
Monster: Premium Edition R2 (Jpn)
Mr and Mrs Smith (FR)
Mullholland Drive Scanbox Ltd (Denmark)
My Neighbors the Yamadas (JAP)
Myth, the (Avant-Garde editions only) (HK)
Natural City (KOREA)
Nest, The (Nid de Guepes) (FR)
Neon Genesis Evangelion LE (Taiwan)
Ninth Gate, the (digipack) Scanbox Ltd (Denmark)
Nin X Nin (JAP)
Notting Hill (Jap)
Novocaine (GER) *German lanuage track only
Nowhere To Hide SE (Korea)
Nutty Professor, The (US)
Odoru daisosasen The Movie 1&2 Hi-Bit Twin Edition (JAP)
One Missed Call DTS-ES (HK)
Ong Bak DTS-ES (JAP)
Open Season R6 (CN)
Open Water DTS-ES (HK& Denmark)
Original sin (JAP)
Others, the (JAP, Finland Portugal & Denmark)
Out of Sight (US)
Out of time (Japan & Taiwan)
Owls Castle (JAP)
Pan's Labyrinth (HK)
Passion of the Christ (UK, PT, CAN)
Patch Adams (US)
Pathfinder (Extended Edition) (UK)
Paulie (US)
Peacemaker, The (US)
Phantom of the Opera DTS-ES (HK)
Pitch Black (JAP)
Planet Terror (HK)
Primary Colors (US)
Prince of Egypt, The (US)
Promise, the 'Deltamac' (HK)
Punch-Drunk Love: dts Collector's Edition R2 (Jpn)
Queen - Greatest Video Hits Vol.1 DTS 96/24 (UK)
Queen - Live at the Bowl (US)
Queen - Live at Wembley (US)
Queen / Paul Rodgers - Live: Return Of The Champions (R2)
Queen - We Will Rock You (US)
Quick And The Dead, The - Hi-Bit Edition (JAP)
Rain Man (R6)
Rambo Trilogy Collectors Edition (JAP)
Rambo SE (JAP)
Rambo 3 SE (JAP)
Re-Animator - Millenium Edition (US)
[REC] (UK)
Reindeer Games (JAP)
Resurrection Of The Little Match Girl (Denmark)
Reservoir Dogs (Jap)
Resident Evil (BELGIUM)
Resident Evil II Apocalypse (HK)
Resident Evil: Extinction R3 (HK)
Ring, the (US movie) (JAP)
Ring 2, the (US movie) (Jap)
Ringu (JAP) Hi-Bit edition
River Wild, The (US)
S1mone: Deluxe Edition R2 (Jpn)
Sahara (JAP)
Saw (2 disc) rated & Unrated edition (DEN, KOR)
Saw 2 (JAP & NL)
SAW 4 [dts-es] R3 (HK)
Scream 3 (JAP)
Seabiscuit Premium Edition (JAP)
Secret R6 (CN)
Seoul Hi-Bit Edition DTS-ES (JAP)
Seven Swords (Limited Collector's Edition) (HK)
Shadow, the (US) Full screen
Shorin Soccer International Version (JAP)
Show Girls (JAP& Korean)
Shutter DTS-ES (HK)
Silent Hill (HK)
Sin City: Premium Edition (First Press) (JAP)
Sixth sense, the (JAP)
Sky Captain & the World of Tomorrow DTS-ES (JPN, HK & Denmark, Scandinavia)
Slash (Sweden)
Sleepers (JAP)
Sleepy Hollow - Platinum Edition (GER) *German language track only*
Sleepy Hollow (JAP)
Slither (HK)
Small Soldiers (US)
Soldier (JAP)
Snakes on a Plane (HK)
Spider-man 3 (IND)
Spy Kids (JAP)
Spy kids 2 (JAP)
Stargate (JAP)
Steamboy (Taiwan) *No English subtitles
Straight Story, The (Jap)
Supergirl (JAP)
Suriyothai Director's Cut (Thailand)
Survive style 5 (JAP)
Symphony For Formosa (Taiwan)
Sympathy For Mr. Vengeance (Denmark)
Taegukgi (HK)
Talented Mr Ripley, the (JAP)
Taxi R2 (Hungary) *Hungarian language track only*
Taxi 3 DTS-ES (JAP)
Tell Me Something (Denmark)
Terminator 2 (JAP Orange slip-case edition)
Terminator 3: Rise of The Machines - Premium Edition (JAP)
Texas Chainsaw Massacre - Remake (HK)
Thin Red Line, the (JAP & US)
Tokyo Godfathers (Taiwan)
Tombraider Premium Edition (Japan)
Total Recall (Jap)
T.R.4 HiBit Edition (JAP)
Trainspotting Definitive Collection (UK)
Transporter, The DTS-ES (Jap)
Tube (Denmark)
Twilight Samurai, the (UK)
Twister (US)
U-571 (Belgium, Czech republic, Hungary, Russia, Croatia, Bulgary, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Japan)
Underworld Extended Version DTS-ES (JAP)
Universal Soldier (JAP & UK)
Uninvited, the (Denmark)
Versus Ultimate Edition DTS-ES (JAP)
Vidocq Scanbox Ltd (Denmark)
Vidocq (Belgium) *French Languages only*
Virus (US)
Virus (JAP) : Kinji Fukasaku movie
Volcano High (Sweden)
Watcher, the (HK)
Waterworld (US)
Way of the gun, the (JAP)
White Noise (HK)
Wicker park Scanbox Ltd (Denmark)
Who am I (JAP)
Windtalkers (JAP)
Wolf Creek (Denmark)
XMEN 1 (HK)
XMEN 3 (HK)
Yards, the (JAP)
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post #96 of 112 Old 01-30-2011, 06:26 PM
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out of all those these are available on LD with DTS

Apollo 13
Armageddon
Austin Powers: International Man Of Mystery
Babe
Blade
Blues Brother 2000
Born on the Forth of July
Boxer, The
Dante's Peak
Daylight
Die Hard
Die Hard 2
Die Hard 3
Dragonheart
Eagles Hell Freezes Over
In the mouth of madness
Jackal, The
Liar, Liar
Mercury Rising
Nutty Professor, The
River Wild, The
Scream Directors cut
Scream 2
Shadow, the wide letterbox
Stargate
Waterworld
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post #97 of 112 Old 01-31-2011, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuelradons View Post

Some neutral info on LD vs Bluray from a person who has a lot to do with the topic. I have discussed all of the following with both sound engineers and computer scientists. And I have, of course, put in a lot of my own experience.

I'm sorry, but I have a lot of doubts about everything you say after this, because it consists entirely of anecdotal evidence and hearsay. It's also full of assumptions, the occasional flat-out wrong statement, and a lot of subjective bias. Do you have any evidence at all to back up any of the following statements?
  1. Laserdiscs are "time capsules" of perfect sound
  2. Remastering of original audio stems aren't allowed on releases of older films
  3. Mono or stereo soundtracks are "usually" matrixed into surround
  4. Compressed lossless soundtracks don't sound the same
  5. "Many" Blu-rays just have a decompressed DVD soundtrack
  6. LDs have a "mature, balanced" sound whereas Blu-ray is entirely focused on effects
It should be noted that #1 has already been refuted in this thread, #2 is proven wrong for several films by interviews with the filmmakers, and #3 is invalidated by the inclusion of the original soundtracks on most films and/or your ignorance of what films may have had multi-track recordings. #4, #5 (which you unhelpfully chose not to list the applicable titles) and #6 have no scientific basis that I've ever read.

So, yeah, HUGE grain of salt on this.

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post #98 of 112 Old 02-01-2011, 11:48 AM
 
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I think very few DVDs came close to the PCM on LD, but let's not get silly a lossless or a multichannel PCM track on blu destroys them
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post #99 of 112 Old 02-02-2011, 01:37 PM
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I don't think these titles on DTS on LD
Mercury Rising
Blues Brothers 2000
The Boxer

I remember DTS website had Mercury Rising as coming to DTS but never made it.
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post #100 of 112 Old 02-13-2011, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuelradons View Post

Here a quote from wikipedia.

DTS encoded Laserdisc have fullbitrate DTS soundtracks (1536 kb/s) instead of the "half" bitrate (768 kb/s) DTS tracks often used on DVDs.

- Theoretically you can even put an uncompressed 7-channel pcm-sountrack onto a DVD since it's only a data carrier. But as you said yourself: There just isn't enough space on it.

PS: I knew about Phantasia and Quadrophonic sound. But not about the others. Thanks for the info there. (Strange. Not even my sound-engineer knew about them.)

"Wiki is wrong" the 1509kbps rate didn't even existed during the LD years, they were simply the same bit rate and sampling rate versions they put on CDs at the time. Also note that 1509kbps is a consumed data rate, the 1539kbps is "utilized". They both refer to the same "full bit rate".

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post #101 of 112 Old 02-13-2011, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narcopolo View Post

Is wikipedia correct on that? The earliest dts laserdiscs like Jurassic Park or maybe it was Independence Day had higher bitrates than the later ones.

No they are not, see above.

Here is a good article about this.



http://www.spannerworks.net/reference/10_1a.asp

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post #102 of 112 Old 02-16-2011, 03:55 PM
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hun,

You did say "Both are mixed on the same equipment and in the same mixing stage, however the mixer knows what to change. I didn't say there is nothing different about them, but the difference is rather small and it isn't the dynamics as your poster boy alludes to."

I posted a link outlining differences in output levels and dynamic range...you come back with something to the affect 'i didn't say that nice try'.

You said there were no differences. I posted a link showing clear differences. Time to move on.
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post #103 of 112 Old 03-14-2011, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 2+2=5 View Post
hun,

You did say "Both are mixed on the same equipment and in the same mixing stage, however the mixer knows what to change. I didn't say there is nothing different about them, but the difference is rather small and it isn't the dynamics as your poster boy alludes to."

I posted a link outlining differences in output levels and dynamic range...you come back with something to the affect 'i didn't say that nice try'.

You said there were no differences. I posted a link showing clear differences. Time to move on.
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post #104 of 112 Old 03-18-2011, 09:46 AM
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Is there really an "In the mood for love" Laserdisc???? PLEASE SAY YES!
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post #105 of 112 Old 03-18-2011, 03:47 PM
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Just an FYI.

The original analog sound tracks on Laserdisks are FM modulated carriers similar to VHS and Beta HiFi. So the quality is in many cases superior to good analog AUDIO cassette tape but not as good as PCM. And it's not quite up to 15ips analog open reel audio recordings IMO either.

The laserdisk is and always was a binary recording format 1/0, pit/no pit on/off, etc. So the only way to record an analog signal is with FM where the information is encoded in frequency and not level changes.

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post #106 of 112 Old 02-24-2012, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Beta Tester View Post

Another example is Heat.

I find that in almost every case, to my ears the LD audio has better fidelity than the corresponding DVD. It is not a subtle difference - if it is a movie that I am familiar with, then I can usually tell in a blind test after about 5 seconds of listening. Hun has confirmed that it is not the mix, so there is something inherently inferior about DVD audio, whether it is by design or in implementation. My experience has always been that the move from LD to DVD was not all positive. We got lower prices, better PQ, and better surround effects, but lost out in the audio fidelity department.

DVD also lost out in PQ imo, that is unless you LIKE pixelation during action scenes... I'll stick to the less sharp but smooth as butter/natural/film like LD video forever. It's a good thing I only like old movies and bands!
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post #107 of 112 Old 03-17-2012, 12:33 AM
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Well. Laserdiscs audio blows dvd audio away easily. Period. You don't need any thec knowledge to come to that conclusion.Just two ears and a stomach. But last night I watch the DTS laserdisc of Crimson Tide and I personally think it sounds better that BR. I think it is because of the original cinema mix that is on that laserdisc, while most movies now seem to be downmixed for homeviewing. And I just love that deep broad cinemasond.

I also did some comperissons with movies I got on BD and lasterdisc and when I compare the fight Club, which only has a great AC3 track, the B has a bit more fidelity and detail, but the laserdisc just rocks my house more. And when it comes to watching movies I prefer a rocking house above that extra bit of hifi. And I was not the only oner in the room, we were with 3 guys, two of them had never seen or heard laserdisc, but do have a BR home theatre at their place and they were even more enthusiastic about the laserdisc sound (We also played X-Men and Phantom Menace) than I was.

Just my two cents.
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post #108 of 112 Old 03-17-2012, 10:08 AM
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I don't believe anything beats lossless audio in terms of clarity and envelopment. However for some reason many BD's are high passed filtered at 25hz and don't offer the low end punch we are accustomed to when watching action or suspense type movies.



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post #109 of 112 Old 03-24-2012, 01:39 PM
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I also want my audio in lossless format. There are a few movies that have below 30 Hz info, the majority do not. I would estimate most systems are just a TV without any aux audio system attached. I know we are the exception and not the norm. I am sure some of you whining about sub 30 Hz signals rarely push your systems to it's limits, especially the married ones! That was meant as a joke!
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post #110 of 112 Old 03-26-2012, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuelradons View Post

Is there really an "In the mood for love" Laserdisc???? PLEASE SAY YES!

Yes and right now I'm into that mood. Watched Broken Arrow on DTS laserdiscs yesterday. Blew me away. Love that deep basses that you don't get on dvd.

I still have to do some shoot outs with blu ray. So far blu ray has better clarity, but my wife says she hears and feels the laserdisc better in the next room.
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post #111 of 112 Old 06-07-2012, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

I don't believe anything beats lossless audio in terms of clarity and envelopment. However for some reason many BD's are high passed filtered at 25hz and don't offer the low end punch we are accustomed to when watching action or suspense type movies.




Ian

There is only one documented release that has it's bass lopped off: Master and Commander. It also isn't the same mix that the dvd had. Something went wrong when the disc was pressed and 20th Century Fox won't do anything about it. It's a shame.

Also, there is no "punch" associated with <25hz bass whatsoever. It's more of a wave-like movement like being underwater.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #112 of 112 Old 06-16-2012, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinbo View Post

Well. Laserdiscs audio blows dvd audio away easily. Period. You don't need any thec knowledge to come to that conclusion.Just two ears and a stomach. But last night I watch the DTS laserdisc of Crimson Tide and I personally think it sounds better that BR. I think it is because of the original cinema mix that is on that laserdisc, while most movies now seem to be downmixed for homeviewing. And I just love that deep broad cinemasond.


I also did some comperissons with movies I got on BD and lasterdisc and when I compare the fight Club, which only has a great AC3 track, the B has a bit more fidelity and detail, but the laserdisc just rocks my house more. And when it comes to watching movies I prefer a rocking house above that extra bit of hifi. And I was not the only oner in the room, we were with 3 guys, two of them had never seen or heard laserdisc, but do have a BR home theatre at their place and they were even more enthusiastic about the laserdisc sound (We also played X-Men and Phantom Menace) than I was.


Just my two cents.


LOL Of course you don't need a technical knowledge that would prevent you from posting silly stuff like above. These people were wrong ten years ago, now they are just like dinosaurs , and threads like these keeps them dug up.

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