Terminator 2: Judgment Day - All High Definition releases comparison PIX - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 88 Old 10-08-2008, 07:01 PM
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The most interesting to me: how close does the wmv-hd version look to the latest and greatest. IIRC it was using under 10Mbps CBR...

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post #32 of 88 Old 10-08-2008, 10:49 PM
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Sigh.

If any film deserves an all-new master struck from the original negative or first-generation interpositive, this one is it. Plus extensive chemical and digital cleanup and restoration. It's a crime that inarguably the most influential (and one of the best) action films of the 1990's is treated so shoddily by just about everybody. Warner spent millions on the restoration of Blade Runner, by comparison, T2 has gotten absolutely shoddy treatment. The future Governator of California deserves some respect! Let's see a newly remastered and restored version of T2, Lionsgate!
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post #33 of 88 Old 10-08-2008, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceless Rebel View Post

Sigh.

If any film deserves an all-new master struck from the original negative or first-generation interpositive, this one is it. Plus extensive chemical and digital cleanup and restoration. It's a crime that inarguably the most influential (and one of the best) action films of the 1990's is treated so shoddily by just about everybody. Warner spent millions on the restoration of Blade Runner, by comparison, T2 has gotten absolutely shoddy treatment. The future Governator of California deserves some respect! Let's see a newly remastered and restored version of T2, Lionsgate!

Studios don't seem to remaster titles out of the blue. It always seems to revolve around anniversary dates. They make a big spectacle of with new commentaries, bonus features etc. Maybe we'll see a new transfer for the 20th anniversary in 2011.
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post #34 of 88 Old 10-08-2008, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

This time I'm linking them directly since that seems to be what people prefer.

I prefer the thumbnail linking to direct image. The page load times are also much faster. Do people seriously compare by looking at two images at the same time? With this thread and Xylon's threads I have manually make tabs for each image, and then drag each shot into each tab to compare. I then quickly flick between tabs to compare and spot differences. With thumbnails I just center click on each image to open in a background tab.
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post #35 of 88 Old 10-09-2008, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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In Firefox there is an easier way than manually making tabs - right-click on the image then middle-click "View Image".

I flick between them as well generally, but to be fair comparing them side-by-side or scrolling between them is more akin to the differences you would actually be able to see in motion. A/B comparing is for those of us who want to see the absolute technical differences between the separate releases, regardless of what may be visible while actually watching.
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post #36 of 88 Old 10-13-2008, 09:48 AM
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UK Blu-ray release definitely is the best. It has no filtering, the least amount of compression artifacts, and retains film grain the most naturally.
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post #37 of 88 Old 10-13-2008, 02:18 PM
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I think it's best said all the versions look soft - which is a shame since this is such a landmark movie. The whole movie needs to be restored from the ground up like Blade Runner was.

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post #38 of 88 Old 10-14-2008, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceless Rebel View Post

Let's see a newly remastered and restored version of T2, Lionsgate!


That's the problem. Warner, I trust to restore, Lionsgate is a junior studio without the resources and know-how.

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post #39 of 88 Old 10-17-2008, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post

I think it's best said all the versions look soft - which is a shame since this is such a landmark movie. The whole movie needs to be restored from the ground up like Blade Runner was.

Was it "sharp" in the theaters?
Or, w/all the special effects & film stock choices, was "T2" always a softy?
Thanks.

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post #40 of 88 Old 10-18-2008, 07:44 PM
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Would be nice to see movies like this one, and Die Hard (1) get the 'Blade Runner' treatment.
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post #41 of 88 Old 10-18-2008, 08:41 PM
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I would settle for just new DNR/EEless transfers.
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post #42 of 88 Old 10-19-2008, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean_O View Post

Would be nice to see movies like this one, and Die Hard (1) get the 'Blade Runner' treatment.

I dont think blade runner treatment is going to change much for Die Hard.

Since they shoot alot of Die Hard handheld with anamorphic lenses.

Alot of the lesser quality comes from that the camera goes out of focus and top of that has some distortions.
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post #43 of 88 Old 10-19-2008, 02:30 PM
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Geneon will release T2 in Japan on the 5th of December, the movies I have from them on DVD has had high standrads in both AQ and VQ, hopefully they have done something good with T2 but my hunch is that they are stuck witht he same print as everyone else.

http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/2789321
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post #44 of 88 Old 10-19-2008, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean_O View Post

Would be nice to see movies like this one, and Die Hard (1) get the 'Blade Runner' treatment.

The 'Blade Runner' treatment? You mean, that DNR cr@p Warner has managed to stick into the Final Cut.

Die Hard looks great, with all film grain apparently intact. After the Patton, TLD fiasco, FOX has been the greatest so far IMO, in both new releases and catalog, presenting the movies without DNR and excessive EE.

Seriously, what else do you expect from Die Hard?

http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i9184_dhbd2.png
http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i9182_dhbd1.png
http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i9186_dhbd3.png
http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i9188_dhbd4.png


These seem flawless to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

I would settle for just new DNR/EEless transfers.

Count me in
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post #45 of 88 Old 10-20-2008, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexBC View Post

The 'Blade Runner' treatment? You mean, that DNR cr@p Warner has managed to stick into the Final Cut.

Die Hard looks great, with all film grain apparently intact. After the Patton, TLD fiasco, FOX has been the greatest so far IMO, in both new releases and catalog, presenting the movies without DNR and excessive EE.

Seriously, what else do you expect from Die Hard?

http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i9184_dhbd2.png
http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i9182_dhbd1.png
http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i9186_dhbd3.png
http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i9188_dhbd4.png


These seem flawless to me.



Ha ha,

I found Blade Runner to be amazing compared to it's previous home video releases. I simply hope for the same type of 'jump' in quality for films like T2 & Die Hard.

Those Die Hard scans you posted actually look pretty darn great, I admit. I believe that was released before Patton as well, not after. So FOX did it right, then screwed up, then got roasted, and are now doing it right again?
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post #46 of 88 Old 10-21-2008, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean_O View Post

Ha ha,

I found Blade Runner to be amazing compared to it's previous home video releases. I simply hope for the same type of 'jump' in quality for films like T2 & Die Hard.

Those Die Hard scans you posted actually look pretty darn great, I admit. I believe that was released before Patton as well, not after. So FOX did it right, then screwed up, then got roasted, and are now doing it right again?

Fox has generally been very good in delivering catalog releases with great image quality that appear to be faithful to the source.

It was two titles, Patton and The Longest Day, that gave Fox a bad reputation for excessive post-processing. Anyone who's been following the situation knows that Fox contracted the work on these two titles to the same inept people.
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post #47 of 88 Old 10-24-2008, 08:45 AM
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The WMV seems to look the best. I have the Studio Canal HD-DVD, looks pretty nice.
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post #48 of 88 Old 10-24-2008, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexBC View Post

The 'Blade Runner' treatment? You mean, that DNR cr@p Warner has managed to stick into the Final Cut.

Warner didnt DNR Blade runner in that sense.

They did DNR on some footage, and at the same time added grain to other to make the viewing experience more consistent.

It was a vey well made restoration.
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post #49 of 88 Old 10-24-2008, 11:38 AM
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Re: BLADE RUNNER, it seems some folks have decided that "The Final Cut" was DNRed simply because the HD versions of the "archival versions" have more grain. What these folks fail to realize is that "The Final Cut" was a 4K scan directly from the original negative, and on top of that all the effects shots were scanned at either 6K or 8K from original 65mm elements. The "archival versions", on the other hand, were traditional HD telecines from decades-old 35mm InterPostives from the Warner Brothers vault. THAT'S the reason "The Final Cut" is less grainy- it's a direct 4K (with some 6K and 8K) scan from the source itself, whereas the "archival versions" were telecined from 35mm IPs which were duped from the negative decades ago. In particular, effects shots in the "archival versions" were 35mm reductions from the 65mm originals, which were then intercut with the 35mm negative then duped again to make the IPs, so those shots are 2 generations from the 65mm elements that were scanned for "The Final Cut". InterPositives being dupes, there is grain build up, especially if we're talking about dupe stock from 1982.

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post #50 of 88 Old 10-24-2008, 12:27 PM
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BIG thanks, Vincent. ^^^

What's your take on getting more detail out of "T2"?
Thanks, again.

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post #51 of 88 Old 10-26-2008, 01:27 PM
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Vincent just pwned this thread.

It's amazing the degree to which people make assertions with incomplete and in fact wholly errant information. Be it DNR or bitrate, too many arguments based on less than all the facts. Not all "grain" is good, high bitrate != best picture, etc...

Thanks for the inside baseball Vincent...
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post #52 of 88 Old 10-26-2008, 02:20 PM
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Actually MovieSwede is correct. Here is an article on the Blade Runner restoration.

The important bit:
Quote:


Later, I speak with WB vice president of post production Kurt Galveo, who took a hands-on role in the transformation of Blade Runner to high-def disc. "We wanted to make sure that no matter what platform you look at it on, you always see the same thing," says Galveo. "We try to match the warmth, color, and texture. To keep that same kind of image on video, there are adjustments you have to make in color, because electronically it's a different color space. Plus, sometimes you have to add grain. When we scan the image and put it on digital form on disc, it can be too clean; you have to add texture so it looks like people remember it from the theater. But sometimes you literally have areas in the film where there's too much grain opticals [special effects], for instance, can actually introduce more grain so we have to take some out. It goes both ways."

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post #53 of 88 Old 10-26-2008, 02:40 PM
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MovieSwede is always correct.

I think "The Final Cut" looks fantastic. It's not like some yahoo put the entire movie through a single heavy DNR pass, which all too often seems to happen.
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post #54 of 88 Old 10-26-2008, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paku View Post

I've never found a source that adequately explains why, but I was under the impression that they rarely like to scan directly from the negative. Perhaps the film-to-film process involves less risks of damage than the scanning/telecine process.

And I'd guess using a Super35 source would be preferable. They could even create a 1.78:1 open-matte master for TV while they were at it (assuming the framing and SFX work allowed it.)

most of the time mastering is done from the inter-positive I read
one step from the negative
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post #55 of 88 Old 10-27-2008, 06:18 PM
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Regarding Blade Runner, I not disputing what was done during the restoration. I have no doubt the information provided here by the fine members are accurate.

But what is presented on the BD just doesn't seem to be all that faithfull to this fantastic restoration provided for the move.

Vincent,

I'm not mistaking lack of grain for DNR per se.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Pereira View Post

Re: BLADE RUNNER, it seems some folks have decided that "The Final Cut" was DNRed simply because the HD versions of the "archival versions" have more grain. What these folks fail to realize is that "The Final Cut" was a 4K scan directly from the original negative, and on top of that all the effects shots were scanned at either 6K or 8K from original 65mm elements.

But it's obvious from screencaps I have posted elsewhere here on AVS, that the Final Cut has simply been DNR, filtered or whatever term it might be, much like 95% of the stuff Warner has put out so far. The shots clearly show the pasty look and less detail (not just grain) compared to archival versions.

I have little to no doubt that the 4k master form the restoration is a whole different league from the BD.
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post #56 of 88 Old 11-09-2008, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Back on topic, I've added TC screencaps from the French release and updated the first post (see the original posts on the first page for the new pics).

Check post #6... I've confirmed using the same decoders that this shot is smoother and less grainy on the TC vs the UK/FR DC disc. Some other shots also appear to show a difference similar to this. DNR?
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post #57 of 88 Old 12-04-2008, 11:06 PM
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Got my Japanese Premium Edition today. Probably won't be able to watch it for a few days, but since it has the Studio Canal logo as well as the Geneon logo on it, it might use the same masters as the French release. It's an AVC encode with Dolby True HD, however, so it's not the same encode. It's also THX certified, not that that necessarily means anything.
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post #58 of 88 Old 12-09-2008, 03:55 AM
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Snaps from the JP T2 Special Edition disc (AVC + TrueHD):



The UK VC1 BD still seems to have the slightest of slight edges if you move a little closer/zoom in. As for the colour, could be a difference in renderer's. tl;dr we really need a new transfer no matter which is the best disc.
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post #59 of 88 Old 12-11-2008, 04:43 PM
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So which Terminator 2 Blu Ray is the best in terms of Video and Audio quality. Is it the Uk Blu ray version or the Japanese Blu Ray that just came out. I currently have the U.S. version and it sucks that it is only the Theatrical version and the video and audio quality are only ok. Thanks

Edit: I just ordered Terminator 2 Extended edition on amazon.uk, the studio canal VC-1 blu ray from the UK, Japan one was too expensive and House mentioned that The Uk version looks slightly better then the new Japanese Version
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post #60 of 88 Old 12-12-2008, 03:19 PM
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I'm waiting for I lost count dip that will hopefully come with T4.
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