Which 3D format do you think the BDA will pick for Blu-ray? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Which 3D format do you think the BDA will pick for Blu-ray?
Dolby 3D format 0 0%
Sensio 3D format 0 0%
Panasonic 3D format 0 0%
Other 3D format 0 0%
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post #91 of 275 Old 09-13-2009, 08:35 PM
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I am confused by everyone's reaction on this board. From my research I have a very different conclusion and I woud be interested in your feedback. From my reading about a 3D transmission standard requirements from the BD:

- BD or any broadcasting standard as it is not true anymore that HD3D will be transmitted through Blu-ray only (as Panasonic claim, a nice marketing approach), especially after the multiple 3D projects announcements such as Sky, ESPN and other heavyweights -

1. Must be Full HD for each eye

Sensio as well as Panasonic are capable of this. The issue with Panasonic seem to be that the broadband requirement is limiting this standard to Blu-Ray usage. If my understanding is good, Panasonic does not sound like a standard candidate for anything else than BD.

Sensio is the only technology capable of broadcasting a full 1080P 3D or 2D image on conventional infrastructure because of the compression method that preserve image quality.

The image quality from Sensio and Panasonic is HD3D for both of them (1080P). Sensio seem to lose some quality in the compression process but it seems to be very limited and that we would not perceive the loss (a normal human being would not, according to what I read).

2. Must be backwards compatible

A Sensio encrypted image would be compatible with any of the existing method used to transport (Blu-Ray, DVD, cable, satellite, internet,...) a signal without having to make any change or upgrade to the equipment for as long as there is a 3D TV (Sensio compatible at the other end). This mean that I would not have to upgrade my set top box or my Blu-ray player to watch a Sensio3D movie in full 3DHD, if I buy a 3DTV with Sensio built in. This is real backward compatibility: people would not have to upgrade their entire set of electronic equipments like it would be the case with the Panasonic transmission standard. Only the TV would have to integrate the Sensio decoder, this is the only change that has to be made by the customers who will buy a 3DTV anyways. I don't think that customers will want to change their TV and their BD and their cables and their set-top box,...etc... the change of the television will be important enough and it has to be easy for customers.

Sensio also has the advantage of being compatible with the transmission of live 3D events in 1080P. If my understanding is good, Panasonic would not because of the broadband issues they have. This sound like backward compatibility with the existing distribution networks.

3. Ready for 2010: Only Sensio is a ready now solution. Panasonic would only be ready for... Panasonic... as no one else have the technology to manage the signal and display it appropriately. That sounds more like a monopolistic approach than a standard. Would that serve consumers? Would that serve anybody else than Panasonic?

4. High quality cinema HD: Both Panasonic and Sensio are capable of this. I agree that the Panasonic image is mathematically better but can we really tell the difference between the two? The choice has to be logical, not mathematical.

Please jump in this discussion if you think any of my assumptions are wrong.

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post #92 of 275 Old 09-13-2009, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 3Dkid View Post

Sensio as well as Panasonic are capable of this. The issue with Panasonic seem to be that the broadband requirement is limiting this standard to Blu-Ray usage. If my understanding is good, Panasonic does not sound like a standard candidate for anything else than BD.

Do you mean the bandwidth requirement? People have said it will only be about 150% of 2D if they their current method. Couldn't broadcasters and others use a similar method to Panasonic too (if TV sets/decoders were made compatible)?
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post #93 of 275 Old 09-13-2009, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Dkid View Post

I am confused by everyone's reaction on this board. From my research I have a very different conclusion and I woud be interested in your feedback. From my reading about a 3D transmission standard requirements from the BD:

- BD or any broadcasting standard as it is not true anymore that HD3D will be transmitted through Blu-ray only (as Panasonic claim, a nice marketing approach), especially after the multiple 3D projects announcements such as Sky, ESPN and other heavyweights -

1. Must be Full HD for each eye

Sensio as well as Panasonic are capable of this. The issue with Panasonic seem to be that the broadband requirement is limiting this standard to Blu-Ray usage. If my understanding is good, Panasonic does not sound like a standard candidate for anything else than BD.

Sensio is the only technology capable of broadcasting a full 1080P 3D or 2D image on conventional infrastructure because of the compression method that preserve image quality.

The image quality from Sensio and Panasonic is HD3D for both of them (1080P). Sensio seem to lose some quality in the compression process but it seems to be very limited and that we would not perceive the loss (a normal human being would not, according to what I read).

2. Must be backwards compatible

A Sensio encrypted image would be compatible with any of the existing method used to transport (Blu-Ray, DVD, cable, satellite, internet,...) a signal without having to make any change or upgrade to the equipment for as long as there is a 3D TV (Sensio compatible at the other end). This mean that I would not have to upgrade my set top box or my Blu-ray player to watch a Sensio3D movie in full 3DHD, if I buy a 3DTV with Sensio built in. This is real backward compatibility: people would not have to upgrade their entire set of electronic equipments like it would be the case with the Panasonic transmission standard. Only the TV would have to integrate the Sensio decoder, this is the only change that has to be made by the customers who will buy a 3DTV anyways. I don't think that customers will want to change their TV and their BD and their cables and their set-top box,...etc... the change of the television will be important enough and it has to be easy for customers.

Sensio also has the advantage of being compatible with the transmission of live 3D events in 1080P. If my understanding is good, Panasonic would not because of the broadband issues they have. This sound like backward compatibility with the existing distribution networks.

3. Ready for 2010: Only Sensio is a ready now solution. Panasonic would only be ready for... Panasonic... as no one else have the technology to manage the signal and display it appropriately. That sounds more like a monopolistic approach than a standard. Would that serve consumers? Would that serve anybody else than Panasonic?

4. High quality cinema HD: Both Panasonic and Sensio are capable of this. I agree that the Panasonic image is mathematically better but can we really tell the difference between the two? The choice has to be logical, not mathematical.

Please jump in this discussion if you think any of my assumptions are wrong.

3Dkid

Your number one has not been tested by blu ray enthusiasts like xylon.

your number two is correct. Sensio would bloom while panasonic would stutter before possibly being accepted mainstream.


your number three is wrong. Sony is using panasonic 3d system.

your number four. Until it's seen it won't be believed. If they demo 3d internet, 3d tv, 3d dvd, 3d blu ray then it's just hype, and until these places start using 3d cameras the sensio advantage is really nothing to be used instantly but over a long period of time.


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post #94 of 275 Old 09-14-2009, 05:10 AM
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Back to my comments, from what I read the system that is:

1) Offering HD image quality in 3D: Sensio3D is offering a loss-less compressed signal that allows the transmission of dual 1080P pictures. They even have been integrated in a broadcast product that was demonstrated at IBC last week for the transmission of 2D or 3D 1080P60/50 signals. It is the first and only 1080P60/50 product on the market (IDC is offering the product).

There are some articles on the high quality offered by Sensio. I found one on the web some time ago and it demonstrated that it was not really possible to tell that the quality is not optimal with Sensio 3D compression.

2) Offering backward compatibility: This is the biggest advantage for Sensio: The fact that the consumers would not have to upgrade anything else than their TV to watch 3D.

This is real backward compatibility to me and no other transmission standard offer that feature.

3) With a robust technology that has a proven track record, Sensio seem to be the one that is the easiest to integrate. If they want 3D to become mainstream in 2010 and 2011 they have to go with such a technology that would allow 3DHD transmission through DVD, Blue-Ray, cable, sat., etc...

This goes beyond what Blu-Ray has to offer and they have to consider this aspect when selecting a standard, in my opinion.

4) On image quality, Sensio has been demonstrated at various conventions and covered by multiple articles and studies. Is this good enough?


My comments are based on the following article that I found useful: Bringing 3D to the home (Widescreen review, issue 138, January 2009). The last press releases from the company are probably a good indication of what they can achieve. What do you think?

Let me know if I am in the left field. It seems to me that the only system compatible with the BD requirements and what we should expect from the other standard body is Sensio (in the short term).


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post #95 of 275 Old 09-14-2009, 05:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Dkid View Post

Back to my comments, from what I read the system that is:

1) Offering HD image quality in 3D: Sensio3D is offering a loss-less compressed signal that allows the transmission of dual 1080P pictures. They even have been integrated in a broadcast product that was demonstrated at IBC last week for the transmission of 2D or 3D 1080P60/50 signals. It is the first and only 1080P60/50 product on the market (IDC is offering the product).

There are some articles on the high quality offered by Sensio. I found one on the web some time ago and it demonstrated that it was not really possible to tell that the quality is not optimal with Sensio 3D compression.

2) Offering backward compatibility: This is the biggest advantage for Sensio: The fact that the consumers would not have to upgrade anything else than their TV to watch 3D.

This is real backward compatibility to me and no other transmission standard offer that feature.

3) With a robust technology that has a proven track record, Sensio seem to be the one that is the easiest to integrate. If they want 3D to become mainstream in 2010 and 2011 they have to go with such a technology that would allow 3DHD transmission through DVD, Blue-Ray, cable, sat., etc...

This goes beyond what Blu-Ray has to offer and they have to consider this aspect when selecting a standard, in my opinion.

4) On image quality, Sensio has been demonstrated at various conventions and covered by multiple articles and studies. Is this good enough?


My comments are based on the following article that I found useful: Bringing 3D to the home (Widescreen review, issue 138, January 2009). The last press releases from the company are probably a good indication of what they can achieve. What do you think?

Let me know if I am in the left field. It seems to me that the only system compatible with the BD requirements and what we should expect from the other standard body is Sensio (in the short term).


3Dkid

Bold =

Quote:


SENSIO Technologies Inc., inventor of the SENSIO® 3D technology, and Sagem Communications have joined forces to premier a new 3D video solution at IBC (International Broadcasting Convention). Sagem Communications' digital set-top box, with integrated SENSIO® 3D technology, will enable consumers to view 3D content at home in full HD. The Demo at Sagem Communications’ booth (4.A080) is a first step towards commercial availability of the product planned for 2010.

Thanks to this integrated solution, service providers will soon be able to reach all subscribers, equipped with 3DTVs or not, via one and unique signal, regardless of the type of broadcast network. Since the set-top box is agnostic to any type of 3D display technology implemented within TVs, it can support any type of 2D or 3D TVs thus allowing service providers to easily migrate from 2D to 3D services. Furthermore, service providers will not require duplicating the broadcast of content in order to address various subscriber TV sets. All that will be required is to broadcast the content in 3D over their existing network while the set-top box processes the incoming signal and adapts it to the type of TV which is connected to it.

What that is saying is if you have a 2DTV - you will see 2D content. If you have a 3DTV, then you will see 3D content. It doesn't say that if you have a 2DTV, you will see 3D.
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post #96 of 275 Old 09-14-2009, 05:48 AM
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Exactly, this is backward compatibility. This is in my opinion the biggest strength for Sensio. You do not need to upgrade everything you have if it is integrated.

You get a HD3D signal and you do not need to buy a new BD player. If you have a 2D TV you can watch a 1080P signal (no other 2D formatr allow that) and if you have a 3D TV you can enjoy a 3D 1080P visual experience.

This seems to be a very versatile technology and from what they say it is compatible with all 3DTV technology and all the display method that exist (and all resolutions).

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post #97 of 275 Old 09-14-2009, 06:35 AM
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At first, BDA should commercialize production of BD-100s.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #98 of 275 Old 09-14-2009, 06:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 3Dkid View Post

Exactly, this is backward compatibility. This is in my opinion the biggest strength for Sensio. You do not need to upgrade everything you have if it is integrated.

You get a HD3D signal and you do not need to buy a new BD player. If you have a 2D TV you can watch a 1080P signal (no other 2D formatr allow that) and if you have a 3D TV you can enjoy a 3D 1080P visual experience.

This seems to be a very versatile technology and from what they say it is compatible with all 3DTV technology and all the display method that exist (and all resolutions).

3DKid

There is nothing to prevent The Panasoinc 3D system becoming the standard for BD and rthe Sensio 3D system becoming the standard for "broadcast" 3D TV. It may very well turn out that way. Panasonic has already invented a new compact 3D camera for 3D capture:

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Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

At first, BDA should commercialize production of BD-100s.

Panasonic and Sony want 3D in the marketplace by Q4 2010. Too soon for a BD with more than 2 layers to be put into production.
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post #100 of 275 Old 09-14-2009, 07:06 AM
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Panasonic and Sony want 3D in the marketplace by Q4 2010. Too soon for a BD with more than 2 layers to be put into production.

Good point. Do you think that this by itself is a good enough reason to select Sensio format for Blu-Ray disk as you do not need to produce new Blu-Ray with the Sensio standard.

With Sensio, you simply have to put your 3D Blu-Ray disk in the existing Blu-Ray machines and it gets to the decoder in the TV. Easy integration with the TV makes quick market access to 3D. With Sensio, 3D could be mainstream in a few months, don't you think?

3Dkid

(I think that Sensio format for broadcast is a no brainer, with what you are saying I think that Sensio would also make quicker mass production 3D entry into home.. no brainer for Blu-Ray as well)
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post #101 of 275 Old 09-14-2009, 08:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 3Dkid View Post

Good point. Do you think that this by itself is a good enough reason to select Sensio format for Blu-Ray disk as you do not need to produce new Blu-Ray with the Sensio standard.

With Sensio, you simply have to put your 3D Blu-Ray disk in the existing Blu-Ray machines and it gets to the decoder in the TV. Easy integration with the TV makes quick market access to 3D. With Sensio, 3D could be mainstream in a few months, don't you think?

3Dkid

(I think that Sensio format for broadcast is a no brainer, with what you are saying I think that Sensio would also make quicker mass production 3D entry into home.. no brainer for Blu-Ray as well)

Panasonics 3D system is the front runner for the 3D standard for BD. They are also a major patent holder in BD.
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post #102 of 275 Old 09-14-2009, 08:59 AM
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Are you suggesting that the decision by the BD association was made?

Yes. The work is now in the details.

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Yes. The work is now in the details.

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Originally Posted by 3Dkid View Post

1) Offering HD image quality in 3D: Sensio3D is offering a ... signal that allows the transmission of dual 1080P pictures. They even have been integrated in a broadcast product that was demonstrated at IBC last week for the transmission of 2D or 3D 1080P60/50 signals. It is the first and only 1080P60/50 product on the market (IDC is offering the product).

When the BDA are filling in the details of the spec, will they be able to do what the Sensio 3D system can do (highlighted in bold above)? Are they going to include what the directors of the biggest budget 3D productions have been asking for and producing in re: frame rates? (JC 48p, PJ 60p, IMAGO members 60p)?
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When the BDA are filling in the details of the spec, will they be able to do what the Sensio 3D system can do (highlighted in bold above)? Are they going to include what the directors of the biggest budget 3D productions have been asking for and producing in re: frame rates? (JC 48p, PJ 60p, IMAGO members 60p)?

Joe:

What are the approved frame rates currently in the BD specs? Aren't they 24P and 60i (in the USA)?

How many Hollywood movies have been shot in 48 or 60 FPS?

The BDA has already said they are fast tracking the 3D standard for BD. That means they are going by the KISS principal.

If in the future, movies start to be filmed in frame rates higher than 24, I am sure that the BDA will revisit the BD specs. Just like they are revisiting the specs to include 3D.
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post #105 of 275 Old 09-14-2009, 01:13 PM
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Panasonics 3D system is the front runner for the 3D standard for BD. They are also a major patent holder in BD.


If I understand correctly they will decide to go with the Pana standard even if the technology is not ideal for the consumers and will not allow a quick market adoption with the reason being nothing else than Pana being a major patent holder in the Blu-ray technology. They have to be smarter than this.

To illustrate how bizarre that is: I paid close to $2000 for my Marantz Blu-ray player and I will have to buy another one for my 3D viewing? That would not be the case with the Sensio standard and the quality would be the same.

I have a hard time following how they take decisions and I still don't understand why they would ask for Pana. There has to be something else than Pana being a patent holder, there must be something I don't get. 3Dkid
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Where are they in the details? What is left for them to decide if they know in which direction to go?
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post #107 of 275 Old 09-14-2009, 01:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Dkid View Post

If I understand correctly they will decide to go with the Pana standard even if the technology is not ideal for the consumers and will not allow a quick market adoption with the reason being nothing else than Pana being a major patent holder in the Blu-ray technology. They have to be smarter than this.

To illustrate how bizarre that is: I paid close to $2000 for my Marantz Blu-ray player and I will have to buy another one for my 3D viewing? That would not be the case with the Sensio standard and the quality would be the same.

I have a hard time following how they take decisions and I still don't understand why they would ask for Pana. There has to be something else than Pana being a patent holder, there must be something I don't get. 3Dkid

1. The Panasonic 3D system offers the highest quality 3D using the current specs of BD. And it is fully backwards compatible with all BD players in consumer homes. They all can extract a 2D verison from the 3D encode. That also means not having to rebuy a 3D BD once they decide (if they do) to invest in 3D equipment.

2. The CEM's want to sell NEW equipment - displays and BD players (and the PS3 can do a FW UP to make it a 3D BD player - according to Sony).

3. The two giants involved in BD are Sony and Panasonic and they both want the proposed 3D system.
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Where are they in the details? What is left for them to decide if they know in which direction to go?

If the BDA is anything like the DVD Forum (which I believe it is), then they have to go through a bunch of procedures/processes which included things like testing, verification, a short replication run which is usually done by a third party. Then they gather up all the paperwork (lots of it) and go over it at a Board of Directors meeting which is held either semi-annually or quarterly where they will vote on the finding.
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post #109 of 275 Old 09-14-2009, 01:42 PM
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Where are they in the details? What is left for them to decide if they know in which direction to go?

Getting 3D video is only a portion of it. Everything else is also affected to some degree, such as subtitles, menus, BD-J, determing how to re-format to various 3DTVs, how to take into account viewing distance/angles and screen size, multiple viewers, etc. Much of this requires lots of math analysis and lots of test content with various proposed solutions to be evaluated. Things also have to fit into the work flow used to make the 3D movies.

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Joe:

What are the approved frame rates currently in the BD specs? Aren't they 24P and 60i (in the USA)?

How many Hollywood movies have been shot in 48 or 60 FPS?

The BDA has already said they are fast tracking the 3D standard for BD. That means they are going by the KISS principal.

If in the future, movies start to be filmed in frame rates higher than 24, I am sure that the BDA will revisit the BD specs. Just like they are revisiting the specs to include 3D.

Why do you want to limit the Blu-ray 3D specs? I thought in the past you said you wanted the Panasonic system to be selected because it was technically the best. The Sensio system can apparently use 1080p50 and 1080p60. From a technical perspective isn't that better than 1080i50/1080i60 and 1080p24?

I've talked about the directors and cinematographers who are either using or asking for higher fps (and the cinematographers who fought hard to get 1080p60 added to the digital cinema specs - and succeeded). Obviously TV work is going to go 1080p50/60. The Sensio 3D system can do that. These has been added to the digital cinema specs.

Nine Inch Nails: Beside You in Time: recorded at 1080p30. Not in Blu-ray specs.
Various HD Scape titles on Blu-ray claim to be shot at "1080p60".
Oklahoma! shot at 30fps.
Around the World in 80 Days shot at 30fps

Many TV series shot 1080p25. In Blu-ray spec: no.

Obviously concerts and stuff currently shot at 1080i will in future be at 1080p60 etc. Why would consumers want a lower technical standard?

James Cameron has said he would like films shot at 48fps and "maybe on Avatar 2". He has said given his opinions on frame rates multiple times, before even Avatar 1 has been released, before the 3D Blu-ray standards have been set, so now is the time to be setting these standards.

James Cameron (Promoter of the Panasonic 3D Blu-ray system) quotes:
Quote:


For three-fourths of a century of 2-D cinema, we have grown accustomed to the strobing effect produced by the 24 frame per second display rate. When we see the same thing in 3-D, it stands out more, not because it is intrinsically worse, but because all other things have gotten better. Suddenly the image looks so real it's like you're standing there in the room with the characters, but when the camera pans, there is this strange motion artifact. It's like you never saw it before, when in fact it's been hiding in plain sight the whole time. Some people call it judder, others strobing. I call it annoying.

...people have been asking the wrong question for years. They have been so focused on resolution, and counting pixels and lines, that they have forgotten about frame rate. Perceived resolution = pixels x replacement rate. A 2K image at 48 frames per second looks as sharp as a 4K image at 24 frames per second ... with one fundamental difference: the 4K/24 image will judder miserably during a panning shot, and the 2K/48 won't. Higher pixel counts only preserve motion artifacts like strobing with greater fidelity. They don't solve them at all.
"I would vastly prefer to see 48 frames per second as a new display standard, than 24 frames per second."

Peter Jackson has shot his King Kong thing in 60fps 3D. I know it's not a full length feature film, but what if he wanted to have clips of it in bonus features of a later re-release of King Kong on Blu-ray

Why do you want the BD upgrade (3D) system to have lower technical standards than it could have (not having capabilities that the Sensio system has)?
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post #111 of 275 Old 09-14-2009, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 8:13 View Post

As seen in my reply to you post #92. There is a problem that stems from slow lc time.
What is that problem? (4).
How did they fix it? (2), They took the 120Hz hold time and made it 3ms.

Do you agree with this?

Do I agree that going from a hold time of 8.33 ms to 3 ms is an improvement? Sure, and all I am saying is that going from 8.33 ms to 4.7 ms is an improvement as well and that both Samsung and Sony seem to believe that it will produce acceptable 3D video.
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post #112 of 275 Old 09-14-2009, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 3Dkid View Post

1. Must be Full HD for each eye

Sensio as well as Panasonic are capable of this.

Sensio promotes that their 3D method delivers more resolution than half resolution methods but even they admit that it "does not perfectly restore the original image". From what I have read Sensio is a more complex version of the half resolution method (left side for left eye and right side for right eye) which also encodes additional horizontal information in "features the consumer would not normally see". I would like to know exactly what percentage of horizontal resolution that Sensio delivers on average with a known movie but I have yet to find any details like that.


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Originally Posted by 3Dkid View Post

Sensio seem to lose some quality in the compression process but it seems to be very limited and that we would not perceive the loss (a normal human being would not, according to what I read).

A spokesman for Sensio has claimed "that most viewers cannot tell the difference between the two signal paths". That sounds good but a properly done third party test would be the best way to find out if that holds up in practice.


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2. Must be backwards compatible

A Sensio encrypted image would be compatible with any of the existing method used to transport (Blu-Ray, DVD, cable, satellite, internet,...) a signal without having to make any change or upgrade to the equipment for as long as there is a 3D TV (Sensio compatible at the other end).

True, but you would than have to encode two completely separate video encodings for the movie on the Blu-ray disc since one of the BDA requirements was that both the 2D version and 3D version of the movie would be on the same disc.


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3. Ready for 2010: Only Sensio is a ready now solution.

True, but at the moment I think you would have to buy a 3D Sensio processor which has an MSRP of $3000. I don't think that the Hyundai 3D TVs that have a built in Sensio processor have been released yet though they are supposed to come out later this year.
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post #113 of 275 Old 09-14-2009, 02:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

Why do you want to limit the Blu-ray 3D specs? I thought in the past you said you wanted the Panasonic system to be selected because it was technically the best. The Sensio system can apparently use 1080p50 and 1080p60. From a technical perspective isn't that better than 1080i50/1080i60 and 1080p24?

I've talked about the directors and cinematographers who are either using or asking for higher fps (and the cinematographers who fought hard to get 1080p60 added to the digital cinema specs - and succeeded). Obviously TV work is going to go 1080p50/60. The Sensio 3D system can do that. These has been added to the digital cinema specs.

Nine Inch Nails: Beside You in Time: recorded at 1080p30. Not in Blu-ray specs.
Various HD Scape titles on Blu-ray claim to be shot at "1080p60".
Oklahoma! shot at 30fps.
Around the World in 80 Days shot at 30fps

Many TV series shot 1080p25. In Blu-ray spec: no.

Obviously concerts and stuff currently shot at 1080i will in future be at 1080p60 etc. Why would consumers want a lower technical standard?

James Cameron has said he would like films shot at 48fps and "maybe on Avatar 2". He has said given his opinions on frame rates multiple times, before even Avatar 1 has been released, before the 3D Blu-ray standards have been set, so now is the time to be setting these standards.

Peter Jackson has shot his King Kong thing in 60fps 3D. I know it's not a full length feature film, but what if he wanted to have clips of it in bonus features of a later re-release of King Kong on Blu-ray

Why do you want the BD upgrade (3D) system to have lower technical standards than it could have (not having capabilities that the Sensio system has)?

Do you understand the phrase "fast track?"

All you mention are directors. I don't see any STUDIOS that are asking for higher frame rates - do you?

Are you aware that the studios are investigating something called 2 Perf 35mm? Why? Because it saves them money over 4 Perf 35mm. They are looking to save money not spend it.

And it is obvious that they want one new tech at a time and right now that tech is 3D.

I repeat - there is nothing to prevent the BDA from once again revising the BD specs - WHEN IT IS NEEDED . . . . not just in case.
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post #114 of 275 Old 09-14-2009, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

The Sensio system can apparently use 1080p50 and 1080p60.

For the Sensio 3D method to do that the source device has to be capable of decoding 1080p50/60.
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post #115 of 275 Old 09-14-2009, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Do you understand the phrase "fast track?"

So now you don't want a system with the best technical specs - you want the one that can be made the fastest?
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All you mention are directors.

I didn't just mention directors, I mentioned cinematographers too. The people who make the films, etc.

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I don't see any STUDIOS that are asking for higher frame rates - do you?

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/05/05...ew-l-a-studio/
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Colleen Lynch of ESPN and confirmed the new equipment is designed for 1080p at 60 frames per second

I could give more quotes from studios/broadcasters if you want. Or are you only looking for quotes from film studios - are they going to stop putting TV productions on Blu-ray? Isn't it the directors and cinematographers who make those sort of decisions about how their production is shot/how it will look and the studios give them the go-ahead or not? If Avatar is successful why wouldn't they let the director shoot the way he wants?
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post #116 of 275 Old 09-14-2009, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

For the Sensio 3D method to do that the source device has to be capable of decoding 1080p50/60.

Do you mean the TV? My 2D TV can accept both of those uncompressed. Or do you mean the TV has to decode a compressed signal
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post #117 of 275 Old 09-14-2009, 03:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

So now you don't want a system with the best technical specs - you want the one that can be made the fastest?

It is not what I want - it is what the powers that be want. And the Panasonic 3D system does offer the highest quality 3D for BD.

Quote:


I didn't just mention directors, I mentioned cinematraphers too. The people who make the films, etc.

And who hires them and gives them the money to make those films? The studios do. . . . "He who holds the gold makes the rules."


And which service is going to give up bandwidth to distribute 60P? Got to be CBL, SAT or TELCO.

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I could give more quotes from studios/broadcasters if you want. Or are you only looking for quotes from film studios? Isn't it the directors and cinematographers who make those sort of decisions about how their production is shot/how it will look and the studios give them the go-ahead or not? If Avatar is successful why wouldn't they let the director shoot the way he wants?

Seen the news about the new 4th Pirates Of The Carribean movie? Just announced - they are cutting the budget SUBSTANTIALLY.

In 5 years, the Digital Cinema Implementation will be finished. That will mean more than 18,000 DC's in the USA. But that is less than half of all the movie screens in the USA.

Maybe at that time, faster frame rates will be revisited.
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post #118 of 275 Old 09-14-2009, 03:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

Do you mean the TV? My 2D TV can accept both of those uncompressed. Or do you mean the TV has to decode a compressed signal

I believe he means the STB.
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post #119 of 275 Old 09-14-2009, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

It is not what I want - it is what the powers that be want. And the Panasonic 3D system does offer the highest quality 3D for BD.

Maybe. Maybe not. The Sensio 3D system can do 1080p50 & 1080p60. The Panasonic 3D system can do half that at 1080i25 & 1080i30. The ability to have double the number of pixels/lines per second is a higher technical standard than one that can only do half the number of pixels/lines per second. The BDA could create a 3D system that had the best capabilities of all systems and more - eg. Take the capabilties of of the Panasonic system (full HD per eye), add the capabilitiies of the Sensio 3D system (capability of decoding 1080p50 and 1080p60 stereoscopic) and create the best 3D system. Success!
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post #120 of 275 Old 09-14-2009, 03:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

Maybe. Maybe not. The Sensio 3D system can do 1080p50 & 1080p60. The Panasonic 3D system can do half that at 1080i25 & 1080i30. The ability to have double the number of pixels/lines per second is a higher technical standard than one that can only do half the number of pixels/lines per second. The BDA could create a 3D system that had the best capabilities of all systems and more - eg. Take the capabilties of of the Panasonic system (full HD per eye), add the capabilitiies of the Sensio 3D system (capability of decoding 1080p50 and 1080p60 stereoscopic) and create the best 3D system. Success!

It is not the job of the BDA to "create a 3D system." It is their job to evaluate and choose the best 3D system that fits the specifications and guidelines that they have set forth.

And the Panasonic system does just that.
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