3-D Blu-ray in 2010... possible boon or bust? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't know about you, but 3-D from Hollywood has usually meant the "3-D effect trumps acting, story, and excellent cinematography" phenomenon. When Hollywood has run out of good movie ideas: Booyah! Let's reel 'em back with 3-D, boys!

Most of the films being released in 3-D are, sadly, falling into this very trap and are created more for the "thrill" than the quality of the writing and acting. Even PIXAR is, unfortunately, starting to slowly fall into this trap with their latest fare.

Couple this with the expense of replacing not only the TV or projector or monitor, but the receiver or pre-amp/processor, the Blu-ray player, and all the HDMI cabling you can see why many are more than a bit skeptical.

Plus... I, like many, wear glasses and know just how cumbersome and awkward it is trying to put on yet another pair of glasses on top of the glasses already being worn, which can also lessen the 3-D effect we're paying good money for. Are the studios going to offer free laser correction surgery with the purchase of an all new HT system?

And what about the Blu-ray video and audio bitrates with this new two channel AVC codec? If the Blu-ray standards forum doesn't do anything to increase this limitation newly created by 3-D and the codec necessary to run it then basically you end up halving the current video bitrate in order to shoe horn in two simultaneous 1080p video streams and possibly effecting the audio quality as well to gain more of the bit pool budget necessary to carry this out.

Unless they plan on giving us two Blu-ray discs with fully optimized video and audio encodes for a 2-D and 3-D version, I'm even more hesitant to embrace this until an even beefier optical format is ready for prime time (maybe with 4k resolution and 36 bit color). Though, I wonder if BD discs may be the last time we see physical, pre-recorded media. Crappy, compressed all to hell internet downloads seem to be king these days.

This is my take so far. What's yours? Discuss away!

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post #2 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 04:19 PM
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I couldn´t give a rats ass about this new 3D wave.

It´s far to gimmicky and just looks stupid in 2D when things are hurled and pointed at the camera lens.

3D will probably die soon again just like the 3D craze in the 50:s and early 80:s.

IF we get flat screens in the near future that creates real 3D without the need of glasses that actually works well and don´t cost a fortune, then it might be a little bit interesting. But by then Hollywood might have dropped 3D again

I have lost faith in Hollywood completely by now. How hard is it for them to come up with new ideas instead of remaking all the great classics and foreign movies???

When I rewatch and look back at all the great films from the 50:s, 60:s, 70:s and 80:s, it´s so more obvious that todays movie industri isn´t even worth saving. Sure there are a few good movies released from time to time, but none of them is going to be remembered as classics 20-30 years from now.

Forget about 3D, Hollywood. Start making new original movies again without an overdose of CGI and stupidity!!
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post #3 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 04:26 PM
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For me I say bust. After about 15 minutes I don't notice it anymore, and these animated films have a dimensionally quality just in their rendering. It's just not that big of a deal and until they can liberate us from glasses it's not practical.
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post #4 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 04:28 PM
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The only time 3D looks good is at Imax. I have No desire to bring it to my home, and would certainly NEVER spend money upgrading my equipment in order to accommodate it.
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post #5 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 04:55 PM
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I agree with all of the posts above.

Holodeck = YES
"3D" movies = NO

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post #6 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

I don't know about you, but 3-D from Hollywood has usually meant the "3-D effect trumps acting, story, and excellent cinematography" phenomenon. When Hollywood has run out of good movie ideas: Booyah! Let's reel 'em back with 3-D, boys!

Most of the films being released in 3-D are, sadly, falling into this very trap and are created more for the "thrill" than the quality of the writing and acting. Even PIXAR is, unfortunately, starting to slowly fall into this trap with their latest fare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie76 View Post

It´s far to gimmicky and just looks stupid in 2D when things are hurled and pointed at the camera lens.

Have you two actually watched a 3D movie at the theater lately? Most of the time, it is used to give a sense of depth to the movie instead of the "AAHHH _____ is coming out of the screen at me" gimmick from 80s/90s.

Don't get me wrong, poor movies still do that but the good ones (Coraline, UP, etc) don't.
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post #7 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 05:20 PM
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As long as it is full 1080p 3D, I am on it. I am holding off upgrading my projector this Christmas and waiting for the standards to be finalized. It looks like my PS3 just requires firmware upgrades, and it looks like I can keep my AVR, so overall we are not talking major money that I would not have otherwise spend anyways.

I watched Coraline in the theater, and I thought the 3D effects enhanced the movie, and was by no means intrusive.
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post #8 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporadic View Post

Have you two actually watched a 3D movie at the theater lately? Most of the time, it is used to give a sense of depth to the movie instead of the "AAHHH _____ is coming out of the screen at me" gimmick from 80s/90s.

Don't get me wrong, poor movies still do that but the good ones (Coraline, UP, etc) don't.

I watched coraline at home(apart from giving me a headache) the intro had things popping out( I could not watch the rest as it made me sick)

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post #9 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

The only time 3D looks good is at Imax. I have No desire to bring it to my home, and would certainly NEVER spend money upgrading my equipment in order to accommodate it.

I agree I even asked people here at work, regarding 3d and upgrading the panels and players and majority were not even interested.

I'm sure it looks good but I have no interest in wearing glasses while watching s movie

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post #10 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beta Tester View Post

As long as it is full 1080p 3D, I am on it. I am holding off upgrading my projector this Christmas and waiting for the standards to be finalized. It looks like my PS3 just requires firmware upgrades, and it looks like I can keep my AVR, so overall we are not talking major money that I would not have otherwise spend anyways.

I watched Coraline in the theater, and I thought the 3D effects enhanced the movie, and was by no means intrusive.

Did not know projectors were made yet for 3d. I've only seen panels.

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post #11 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 06:00 PM
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And the glasses thing won't work well as my wife wears glasses so she won't even be intrested.

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post #12 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 06:20 PM
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No interest here whatsoever. It's a gimmick for theatres or short clips/documentaries. Fun for about 1/2 hour. Whole movies in 3D at home? No thanks!

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post #13 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 06:27 PM
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I guess I'm in the minority.. I'm pretty excited about 3D coming to the home. Adds another dimension of enjoyment to watching movies at home. I as well am waiting to see the next generation next year. I'm pretty sure 3D technology will be the hot topic.
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post #14 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 06:28 PM
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I can definitley see a future in it for gamers

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post #15 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

I watched coraline at home(apart from giving me a headache) the intro had things popping out( I could not watch the rest as it made me sick)

Yeah, the home experience is different.

The theater doesn't use the blue/red glasses anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

And the glasses thing won't work well as my wife wears glasses so she won't even be intrested.

And the theater ones are bigger and fit comfortably over glasses.
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post #16 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporadic View Post

Yeah, the home experience is different.

The theater doesn't use the blue/red glasses anymore.



And the theater ones are bigger and fit comfortably over glasses.

my wife won't be intrested in putting glasses over glasses. I guess 3d has been great for getting people back into the cinemas but for home not intrested. I will sit back and watch and see how it turns out though hopefully they can create the experience without the glasses. But then again you will need to change the components for that. I cannot see many that already have spent big $$ on there ht projectors upgrading to that unless they have money to burn.

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post #17 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 07:06 PM
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I see a lot of people don't like it. However, judging from the box office receipts, 3D is something people really like.

Done properly, I really enjoy it. I have most of the 3D Blu-ray disks that have come out recently, and they are all very watchable, despite the terrible color and contrast resulting from the compromises in the red/green process. With polaroid lenses or LCD switching lenses, I think it will be a hit and a big asset to Blu-ray.

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post #18 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 07:42 PM
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Bust big time so long as:
1. Glasses are required
2. New panel / PJ required
3. New player required
No thank you
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post #19 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Even PIXAR is, unfortunately, starting to slowly fall into this trap with their latest fare.

mmmm, no they are not.

and true steroscopic 3d is totally the future.. hopefully... maybe at least for pc games.
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post #20 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 09:22 PM
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So are we supposed to upgrade all of our equipment to watch what 2-3 movies ?
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post #21 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
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mmmm, no they are not.

and true steroscopic 3d is totally the future.. hopefully... maybe at least for pc games.

For games it would be great because you want to be part of it, but movies I want to sit back and enjoy not having to look at the crap coming out of the screen

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post #22 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 10:14 PM
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UP in 3D was incredible. Understated if anything.

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post #23 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

I watched coraline at home(apart from giving me a headache) the intro had things popping out( I could not watch the rest as it made me sick)

So far, Coraline is the best 3D movie I've seen (didn't see Up yet).

Some people are affected by the flickering of 3D. I should be one of them since I went years not being able to watch certain types of displays myself, but for whatever reason, newer ones don't bother me. I'm sorry for folks who can't watch this stuff cause some 3D movies are pretty kewl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Did not know projectors were made yet for 3d. I've only seen panels.

The displays that have been made for real 3D glasses have been mostly DLP's (mostly RP Samsung and Mitsubishi). Several projectors should also have the trigger port on them in the coming months. I think this is the 3D people are talking about. LCD Glasses and a wireless triggering unit along with synchronized video output. Not just the glasses with filters in them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

I can definitley see a future in it for gamers

This is where I think we'll see 3D start to take off, (If it does at all). Gaming years ago on pc's with LCD 3D glasses was really cool. If you remember back there used to be all sorts of VR Headsets back in the day, but they all left the market. Mostly due to epileptic kids having seizures when wearing them.
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post #24 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 11:20 PM
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UP in 3D was pretty cool, but as my name suggests, I do wear glasses and it was not only irritating to have glasses on top of my glasses (even if they're not the standard cardboard crap with red/blue), it sucked terribly when the fact that I'm a big baby and will cry at many things in movies, I had to try and use tissues to get at my tears beneath 2 pairs of glasses!!!


I do have Coraline that came with the 3D glasses on Blu but we haven't tried to watch it yet.
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post #25 of 56 Old 09-25-2009, 11:43 PM
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I saw Up in 3D, but felt that the 3D aspect detracted from the experience. The movie was quite a bit dimmer and less sharp than it would have been in 2D.

A big no thanks from me.
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post #26 of 56 Old 09-26-2009, 12:02 AM
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I would expect 3D glasses to be around for some time as true holographic display is still in its infancy. Nevertheless, I think it would be practical to provide clip-on passive polarisers for those people who normally wear glasses. I suspect it is the switching in LCD glasses that cause the headache effect, so I anticipate the market could go predominantly to polarising glasses (although this would require more sophisticated displays).

I'm sure I read somewhere that the human eye was less sensitive to resolution reduction in the horizontal direction, so I wonder if it is practical to spatially interleave two 960x1080 images in the same frame and provide alternating polariser strips for each pixel column. This would only require the addition of a specialised polarising sheet to the front of a standard display, although it might have to be viewed at a greater distance than normal to coalesce the images. The images could be broadcast side by side using current methods and then decoded and interleaved as part of the final display process.

I'm really surprised that we haven't seen the release of 3D goggles (head mounted displays). They would have to be much cheaper to produce than specialised large panels and conceivably better leverage OLED technology. Goggles existed some 10 or so years ago and then virtually disappeared.

I don't anticipate this technology to be adopted widely unless it is accompanied by 3D video cameras for home use: that would be the killer application to accompany movies in 3D.

I still like looking at my small collection of Viewmaster 3D reels on occasion and I think 3D in general has the potential to offer something to the entertainment experience, but not if the industry merely use it to rip more money from the consumer with incremental improvements.
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post #27 of 56 Old 09-26-2009, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

I don't know about you, but 3-D from Hollywood has usually meant the "3-D effect trumps acting, story, and excellent cinematography" phenomenon. When Hollywood has run out of good movie ideas: Booyah! Let's reel 'em back with 3-D, boys!

Most of the films being released in 3-D are, sadly, falling into this very trap and are created more for the "thrill" than the quality of the writing and acting. Even PIXAR is, unfortunately, starting to slowly fall into this trap with their latest fare.

Couple this with the expense of replacing not only the TV or projector or monitor, but the receiver or pre-amp/processor, the Blu-ray player, and all the HDMI cabling you can see why many are more than a bit skeptical.

Plus... I, like many, wear glasses and know just how cumbersome and awkward it is trying to put on yet another pair of glasses on top of the glasses already being worn, which can also lessen the 3-D effect we're paying good money for. Are the studios going to offer free laser correction surgery with the purchase of an all new HT system?

Fully agree so far.
Quote:


And what about the Blu-ray video and audio bitrates with this new two channel AVC codec? If the Blu-ray standards forum doesn't do anything to increase this limitation newly created by 3-D and the codec necessary to run it then basically you end up halving the current video bitrate in order to shoe horn in two simultaneous 1080p video streams and possibly effecting the audio quality as well to gain more of the bit pool budget necessary to carry this out.

But this should not be a problem. The two (left and right) streams are strongly correlated and the codec extension that is likely to be used for a 3D BD standard (MVC) can exploit that by doing inter-view prediction. The resulting bitrate is far less than two times the bitrate of the monoscopic video. The current BD format (which is somewhat excessive for modern codecs anyway) should easily be able to handle this.
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post #28 of 56 Old 09-26-2009, 03:26 AM
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I'm not interested in being "part of the movie" as some studio suits have put it. I just want to see a good story, well acted and well directed, with great cinematography, and not a CG house demo reel either.

I have only seen animated movies in 3D (I'm talking about recent releases), Bolt, Up, Monsters & Aliens... It was cool, but watching the 2D version at home doesn't diminish the experience one bit. Movies don't need 3D to be good. It's just a way to sell more tickets...
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post #29 of 56 Old 09-26-2009, 06:30 AM
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I would think that live 3-D sports transmission is on the way too, and may well drive the sales of new systems. A great deal of America have not bought any of the new HD displays yet, or have only bought small < 1080p displays at a discount.

I believe I detect people posting who get all hot and bothered about deficiencies in Blu-ray transfers and problems with OAR who are simply dismissing 3-D out of hand. One can argue that seeing a 3-D film any way other than in 3-D is to "not be seeing it the way the director intended", which is the holy grail that people argue if they think the widescreen aspect ratio has been fiddled with in any way.

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post #30 of 56 Old 09-26-2009, 07:10 AM
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Not going to work ever. In the big picture how good are Blu Ray sales? Some people have been reluctant to upgrade to Blu. Now you're telling them they will need a new player AND a new set to take advantage of something that there's no indication any home consumer would have any interest in? Forget about it.
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