The Blu-ray/DVD Flipper Disc is Coming! - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 192 Old 12-01-2009, 09:10 PM
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I always friggin' hated those dual sided HD-DVD's. Forget about possible price increases and the fact that they'd (the dual HD DVD's) give my A2 fits.... they were always an eyesore, easier to smudge, and for my use there was no reason whatsoever to glue a DVD version to the back of the Blu Ray. None at all.

Honestly, if they make this standard for Universal titles I'll buy a lot less of their Blu Rays than I would've otherwise. I don't know why these discs bother me.... but for some reason they always did. It sucks that they've made their way to Blu Ray.
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post #62 of 192 Old 12-01-2009, 09:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BrandonJF View Post

They did? What's your definition of "many"? You're using the "success" of adoption of a format that died a quick death as historical precedent?

Look...you can either be part of the problem or part of the solution. That is each person's own choice. You can bash the decision all you want, but the decision has already been made. THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING! The fact remains that no one here has actually seen the discs in question. None of this complaining means anything at all until there is actually something to complain about. Some of you are upset about the potential of something you won't even see for at least a month. You're basing your fears on something entirely different.

Yes, many people on this forum and others have said that combos led to their purchase of either of the disc first and then the player. People are fooling themselves if they believe that flippers had anything whatsoever to do with the failure of that format. Whether or not it gained them adopters is separate from the fact that they lost the support of the industry.

I've had enough of the fanboys from both camps. The HD-DVD fanboys will bash BD adopters for now using flippers and the BD fanboys will bash the HD-DVD adopters for the failure of their format. Enough already. It's time to grow up.

The only reasonable thing to do is to wait until one single version of this BD-59 is actually available. Until then...we, you, I, us, them, they, etc. are complaining about assumptions and guesses.

Now, back to our regularly schedule programing: The Worst Possible Outcome - brought to you by your fellow AVS members
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post #63 of 192 Old 12-01-2009, 09:29 PM
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No offense, but you're the one who seem to be taking peoples' [mild] reactions to the news way more seriously than the people originally reacting to the news.

Nobody is acting like the sky is falling, but many people don't really care for these cheap duo discs. They've historically caused technical problems, they don't look as nice as discs with face art, and for many people (like myself) there's no reason whatsoever to have a DVD glued to the back of their Blu Ray - literally none at all. Personally I never liked it when studios did it with HD-DVD, and I think it sucks that a studio is doing it with Blu-Ray.

What do you want people to do, lie? Not give feedback at all?

If they're so Hell bent on including a DVD copy I wish they'd do what Pixar does and include a separate DVD copy option for those that want it.
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post #64 of 192 Old 12-01-2009, 10:21 PM
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This is a stupid idea and I hope Universal has such a high failure and defect rate that they will give up when they realize how stupid it is. Why Universal is so obsessed with hybrid discs is beyond me, even Warner realized that the TotalHD concept was a terrible one and never tried to bring it to market even before HD DVD's demise.
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post #65 of 192 Old 12-01-2009, 10:32 PM
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2 quick Q's:

1) Is this BD-59 or whatever it is app'd by the Blu-ray Disc Association?
2) What's the position of the hardware manufacturers (lessons hopefully learned from DualDisc)?
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post #66 of 192 Old 12-01-2009, 10:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins View Post

No offense, but you're the one who seem to be taking peoples' [mild] reactions to the news way more seriously than the people originally reacting to the news.

Nobody is acting like the sky is falling, but many people don't really care for these cheap duo discs. They've historically caused technical problems, they don't look as nice as discs with face art, and for many people (like myself) there's no reason whatsoever to have a DVD glued to the back of their Blu Ray - literally none at all. Personally I never liked it when studios did it with HD-DVD, and I think it sucks that a studio is doing it with Blu-Ray.

What do you want people to do, lie? Not give feedback at all?

If they're so Hell bent on including a DVD copy I wish they'd do what Pixar does and include a separate DVD copy option for those that want it.

Point taken.
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post #67 of 192 Old 12-01-2009, 11:54 PM
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I had zero issues with my combodisc, everyone played fine. And it was an excellent descision for Star trek TOS to be released in a comboformat because I could watch the episodes everywere.

And for the record its not Universal that glues the "disc". Thats another company.
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post #68 of 192 Old 12-02-2009, 01:04 AM
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Universal's got a great idea here - then when your kids destroy the DVD they'll destroy your BD and you'll have to buy another copy!
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post #69 of 192 Old 12-02-2009, 08:52 AM
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On first thought, it sounds OK. On second thought, I see a couple of problems:
1) I like the idea of a SECOND DISC (like with Harry Potter) because my wife/kids can play the DVD whenever they want without me worrying about them damaging the BD.
2) We lose the artwork AND increase chances of smudging one side or the other since you never know which is which.

I have to agree with the notion that this seems like they are hedging their bets against a lack of support for the Blu-Ray format, when they should be full steam ahead with better pricing/versions/promotion like they're doing with some of the December Blu-Ray releases.

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post #70 of 192 Old 12-02-2009, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins View Post

No offense, but you're the one who seem to be taking peoples' [mild] reactions to the news way more seriously than the people originally reacting to the news.

Nobody is acting like the sky is falling, but many people don't really care for these cheap duo discs. They've historically caused technical problems, they don't look as nice as discs with face art, and for many people (like myself) there's no reason whatsoever to have a DVD glued to the back of their Blu Ray - literally none at all. Personally I never liked it when studios did it with HD-DVD, and I think it sucks that a studio is doing it with Blu-Ray.

What do you want people to do, lie? Not give feedback at all?

If they're so Hell bent on including a DVD copy I wish they'd do what Pixar does and include a separate DVD copy option for those that want it.

Amen. Especially the first paragraph. It was almost like a Universal spokesperson joined the forum.

I sent my email. If they have the intention of not including a seperate DVD copy, hybrid is the way to go. I won't be buying these, nor any other Uni combo title...not when Disney, et al are offering a clearly superior option.
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post #71 of 192 Old 12-02-2009, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanton View Post

On first thought, it sounds OK. On second thought, I see a couple of problems:
1) I like the idea of a SECOND DISC (like with Harry Potter) because my wife/kids can play the DVD whenever they want without me worrying about them damaging the BD.
2) We lose the artwork AND increase chances of smudging one side or the other since you never know which is which.

I have to agree with the notion that this seems like they are hedging their bets against a lack of support for the Blu-Ray format, when they should be full steam ahead with better pricing/versions/promotion like they're doing with some of the December Blu-Ray releases.

Doesn't a BD have a coating on the side that the laser reads? And isn't that coating colored blue?
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post #72 of 192 Old 12-02-2009, 10:25 AM
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I have to wonder if Uni is doing this to keep their DVDs in the stores that are phasing out DVDs or are doing it for the rental companies.

I can't see some one who wants the DVD version paying the extra money for a BD. If you aren't upgrading it is probably because you don't want to spend the extra money to do it.

My HT is in a darkened room. Flippers mean having to go turn the lights on in order to see which side of the disk is which. BD has already been the most inconvenient format in history, lets not add to it.
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post #73 of 192 Old 12-02-2009, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvillain View Post


My HT is in a darkened room. Flippers mean having to go turn the lights on in order to see which side of the disk is which. BD has already been the most inconvenient format in history, lets not add to it.

I've never had to look. The HD DVD combos were always packaged with the HD side up so you just put it in (without flipping it).
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post #74 of 192 Old 12-02-2009, 06:00 PM
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I sent them an email, you all should do the same.

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
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post #75 of 192 Old 12-02-2009, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

I sent them an email, you all should do the same.

Now that you mentioned it, I think I will.


EDIT: I just did...

Quote:


I would like to voice my support of your combo disc idea on the Blu-ray disc format. As an owner of HD DVD combo discs, I can truly appreciate the convenience and flexibility of playing my HD movies on any DVD player. I can also appreciate the positive effect this will have on Blu-ray growth, as potential consumers will be able to future proof their purchase will enjoying releases on the equipment they have now. Thank you for developing this idea and I wish you the best on its success. Hope to hear more annoucements soon!

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post #76 of 192 Old 12-02-2009, 06:17 PM
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I am going to call these people as well tomorrow:



Lea Porteneuve Senior Vice President -Communications & Publicity (818) 679-8186 lea.porteneuve@nbcuni.com


Jennifer BlackPublicity Director(818) 777-0546jennifer.black@nbcuni.com


Universal MUST BE STOPPED! If you aren't against dual layered flipper discs, you are not aware of how unstable and unreliable they are.

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
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post #77 of 192 Old 12-02-2009, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

I am going to call these people as well tomorrow:



Lea Porteneuve Senior Vice President -Communications & Publicity (818) 679-8186 lea.porteneuve@nbcuni.com


Jennifer BlackPublicity Director(818) 777-0546jennifer.black@nbcuni.com


Universal MUST BE STOPPED! If you aren't against dual layered flipper discs, you are not aware of how unstable and unreliable they are.

You are making this judgement based on previous HD DVD Combo discs? You must be as there has yet to be a release of a BD Combo disc. So this is definitely the case and I have to ask . . .

How do you know FOR A FACT that BD Combo discs will have any problems whatseoever? Answer - you don't - you are simply speculating using old data.
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post #78 of 192 Old 12-02-2009, 07:30 PM
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It's a bad idea no matter how anyone tries to spin it.
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post #79 of 192 Old 12-02-2009, 08:11 PM
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It is a bad idea because if they included the BD and the DVD, then I can sell the DVD. Here I have to soak it in beer, get the 2 layers to separate, and glue them on support platters. Then I have to download the picture, print it, and glue it onto the back of both. But once I do that, I won't be able to flip either one and still get video from both sides.
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post #80 of 192 Old 12-02-2009, 08:23 PM
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It's a good idea. People now avoid a Blu-ray because they want something that plays everywhere, their cars, notebooks etc. This advances Blu-ray and future proofs the format.

But including two disks in the package, people will avoid that because no matter the price, they know they are paying for that second unneeded disk.

Just put the artwork into the cover.
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post #81 of 192 Old 12-02-2009, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

You are making this judgement based on previous HD DVD Combo discs? You must be as there has yet to be a release of a BD Combo disc. So this is definitely the case and I have to ask . . .

How do you know FOR A FACT that BD Combo discs will have any problems whatseoever? Answer - you don't - you are simply speculating using old data.

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post #82 of 192 Old 12-02-2009, 09:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

I'm jewish.
We posses certain advanced temporal speculative abilities, stemming from the pineal gland.
These meta-human adaptations allow us advantages in the fields of law, medicine, finance, entertainment, and pornography.

"Funny . . . . you don't look Jewish."



Sure - I understand exactly what you are saying because I too am Jewish.

Happy Chanukah!
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post #83 of 192 Old 12-03-2009, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post

It's a good idea. People now avoid a Blu-ray because they want something that plays everywhere, their cars, notebooks etc. This advances Blu-ray and future proofs the format.

But including two disks in the package, people will avoid that because no matter the price, they know they are paying for that second unneeded disk.

Just put the artwork into the cover.

Quite the opposite, actually. Having the DVD included has gotten me to purchase several titles on BD that I normally wouldn't have touched.

I pay the same price and get two, sometimes three copies of a movie.
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post #84 of 192 Old 12-03-2009, 09:18 AM
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Bill Hunt voices an interesting opinion in his column today at thebits. I suggest people read it. The short version is that he makes the same point I made: Universal has a proven record of abysmal failure with all kinds of double-sided discs. Those of us opposed to this idea are making an informed decision based on known facts about the track record of Universal. Those people who say, "Let's wait and see" have their heads in the sand.

Fortunately, I think Universal's attempt to stifle the adoption of blu-ray will quite likely fail.

Again, we can start by looking at their track record. Following their disasterous attempts to make widespread use of the DVD-18, they eventually ended up reissuing some of those titles on single sided DVDs. Also, after making a big deal about issuing most of their catalogue titles on HD DVD/DVD combo discs, they backed off and only issued a limited number of such combos. I think even Universal themselves recognize that they can't do this properly. Technical problems will probably draw this out for a long time.

That's where time is on our side. Despite Universal throwing a monkey wrench into BD adoption, the format has been posting some extremely impressive numbers in this quarter (look at Kosty's posting on the BD software forum). BD has gathered significant momentum and it's likely that Universal won't find it profitable to pander to the DVD hold outs. Universal hasn't been able to figure out double-sided discs for the last ten years and they won't figure it out in the coming year. By the 4th quarter of next year, they will likely look at the numbers and realize that's it's not worth screwing around with flippers to save the fading DVD market.
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post #85 of 192 Old 12-03-2009, 09:46 AM
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I've been reading some threads on the matter over at HighDefDigest and Blu-ray.com. Almost all negative about the matter, but some people at the latter are upset because with a flipper (vs separate DVD inside same package), they can't give the unneeded DVD to a friend or relative. Uhhhh...wouldn't this work in the favor of Universal's reason to do something like this? If people are taking their extra DVD copy and giving it to potential buyers, there's a lost sale.
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post #86 of 192 Old 12-03-2009, 10:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex Robinson View Post

Those of us opposed to this idea are making an informed decision based on known facts about the track record of Universal. Those people who say, "Let's wait and see" have their heads in the sand.

I think that is a bit harsh. Those who are opposed are making an informed decision, yes. However, they are doing so without knowing if those same problems will even exist. I have no problem with anyone wondering or considering whether or not the same problems will exist. They very well may. I take issue with the claim there will absolutely be widespread problems. As if it is certain and without question. A bunch of doom and gloom in my opinion.

Those of us who support the "wait and see" approach (me) don't have their heads in the sand. We simply support a more levelheaded approach. Throwing out assumptions about a product that no one here has even seen yet...that's a bit dramatic. Could it be exactly the same has a previous failed product? Yes, of course. Will it be exactly the same has the previous product? None of us know and it would be wise for us to actually wait and find out.
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post #87 of 192 Old 12-03-2009, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Nowucmenowudont View Post

None of us know and it would be wise for us to actually wait and find out.

None of us know what bubonic plague is like, but I'm pretty sure I don't want it, either.
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post #88 of 192 Old 12-03-2009, 10:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by CocheseUGA View Post

None of us know what bubonic plague is like, but I'm pretty sure I don't want it, either.

Oh come on now...let's not bring deadly infectious diseases into a discussion on blu-ray. Seems a bit similar to Godwin's Law if you ask me. BTW...we know what the plague is and what it is like. There are documented cases to study and learn from. There are no, none, zero BD flippers to base an opinion on. There are certainly other versions of flippers, but those could prove to be different from what we will see in January.

Heaven forbid we wait a single month to get actual evidence of a problem that doesn't exist yet.
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post #89 of 192 Old 12-03-2009, 10:36 AM
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Bubonic plague today =/= bubonic plague of the past. Diseases change. But they're similar in basic structure...just like the flippers of past and future.

Besides that, I find it interesting there are a small handful of people defending a product that 1) isn't necessary, and 2) has no benefits, other than to the manufacturer. Even if one were to see DVDs no longer produced on their own, the hybrid format is by far the superior one.

In a world of supporting products and companies that benefit the consumer, why are people defending this decision?
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post #90 of 192 Old 12-03-2009, 10:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by CocheseUGA View Post

Bubonic plague today =/= bubonic plague of the past. Diseases change. But they're similar in basic structure...just like the flippers of past and future.

Prove it. Show me evidence of how these BD flippers are being produced. I don't want evidence of a past product...since there could be very important differences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CocheseUGA View Post

Besides that, I find it interesting there are a small handful of people defending a product that 1) isn't necessary, and 2) has no benefits, other than to the manufacturer. Even if one were to see DVDs no longer produced on their own, the hybrid format is by far the superior one.

1. In your opinion.
2. In your opinion.

I respect that opinion and may even agree. However, they are not facts. Just because you don't want something doesn't mean that someone else doesn't. Just because you don't see a benefit doesn't mean that they don't exist.

There is a difference between defending a product which does exist and one which doesn't...at least not until next month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CocheseUGA View Post

In a world of supporting products and companies that benefit the consumer, why are people defending this decision?

Perhaps the reason is because it's hasn't been proven whether this will benefit the consumer or not. Stay tuned: January, 19 2010
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