3D blu ray needs to be passive polarized - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 15 Old 01-29-2010, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
8:13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I have seen technology from videogame manufacturers that looked cool but they lost their fun factor quickly and were clunky and expensive.

I can see people looking at 3D active polarized glasses as a gimmick. They say that it is too expensive and they need to buy a lot of them, and not everybody will be sober when wearing them and they are battery powered delicate electronic devices.

I see the active polarized glasses won't work on every manufacturers 3D tv. So this really really adds the gimmick factor.
It's the glasses that will make 3D a poor sad failure as the oem's want active polarized so the tv's don't cost so much and they can pass the cost onto the glasses.

What 3D blu ray needs is passive polarized glasses so they are cheap.
Then it's easy to buy new glasses when the kids or your drunk friends watching tv ruin the glasses. Somebody's gonna step on them or poke a hole in them or rip them and it would be easy to buy a new pair for 8.00 or so.

If there is ANY way to stop panasonic and other oem's from going exclusively active polarized then Right Now they should go to passive polarized.
At least be agnostice between active and passive so the customer can choose and make the money show what we want.

Old fashioned forward thinking old people will watch in 3D if the glasses don't cost a lot of money. But if the glasses cost a lot of money they will reserve it for their kids kids.


There is new, and then you are new.
This is a moral of the bears and their cereal.
8:13 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 Old 01-29-2010, 03:46 PM
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 19,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 44
1. Too late - the standard is set for 3D BD. Frame sequential/page flip using active shutter glasses

2. How are you going to make the two different polarized light sources using an LCD or a PDP display?
Lee Stewart is offline  
post #3 of 15 Old 01-29-2010, 05:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jvillain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 2,110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Is it just me or does it seem weird to stick a couple of multi thousnd dollar lenses in front of the camera and then watch the movie through $20 glasses?
jvillain is offline  
post #4 of 15 Old 01-29-2010, 06:00 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
darinp2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

1. Too late - the standard is set for 3D BD. Frame sequential/page flip using active shutter glassesA

Are you sure? I thought 3D BD was mostly agnostic on this. I realize it will be frame sequential, but seems like that could still be fed into a passively polarized system if a passively polarized system that takes that input is released. Put another way, if a TV were released that showed both eye's images at once to go with passive glasses then they should be able to make that TV work with 3D BD, isn't that right? The upcoming 3D LG SXRD projector seems like an example of this.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
darinp2 is offline  
post #5 of 15 Old 01-29-2010, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
8:13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
In the case of RealD a circularly polarizing liquid crystal filter which can switch polarity many times per second is placed on front of the projector lens. Only one projector is needed, as the left and right eye images are displayed alternately.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarized_3D_glasses

So this is frame sequential, hence pdp/lcd compatible.


There is new, and then you are new.
This is a moral of the bears and their cereal.
8:13 is offline  
post #6 of 15 Old 01-29-2010, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
8:13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvillain View Post

Is it just me or does it seem weird to stick a couple of multi thousnd dollar lenses in front of the camera and then watch the movie through $20 glasses?

Seeing is believing. Until a calibrated system is demoed for critcal reviewers I can't say if the glasses being inexpensive is bad or not.


There is new, and then you are new.
This is a moral of the bears and their cereal.
8:13 is offline  
post #7 of 15 Old 01-29-2010, 06:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Richard Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,955
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

1. Too late - the standard is set for 3D BD. Frame sequential/page flip using active shutter glasses

From what Keith has said the 3D Blu-ray specs do not dictate what 3D method is used by the 3D display and that 3D Blu-ray can be shown on 3D displays which use passive polarization. This is possible since the 3D display converts the 3D data into the 3D method used by the 3D display.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

2. How are you going to make the two different polarized light sources using an LCD or a PDP display?

I don't know how they will do it but from what I have read JVC, LG, and Samsung are planning to release 3D LCDs that use the polarization method.
Richard Paul is offline  
post #8 of 15 Old 01-29-2010, 07:44 PM
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 19,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

From what Keith has said the 3D Blu-ray specs do not dictate what 3D method is used by the 3D display and that 3D Blu-ray can be shown on 3D displays which use passive polarization. This is possible since the 3D display converts the 3D data into the 3D method used by the 3D display.

Well - that is what is on the 3D BD - frame sequential


Quote:


[I don't know how they will do it but from what I have read JVC, LG, and Samsung are planning to release 3D LCDs that use the polarization method.

JVC:

Quote:


2. The GD-463D10 is compatible with the industry standard line-by-line and side-by-side 3D video formats.

http://pro.jvc.com/pro/pr/2009/nab/3D_Monitor.html

And I believe the cost of that 46" 3D LCD is $9000.

And neither of those 3D formats offer Full HD per eye:

http://www.jvc.eu/3d_monitor/technology/video.html
Lee Stewart is offline  
post #9 of 15 Old 01-29-2010, 08:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Richard Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,955
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Well - that is what is on the 3D BD - frame sequential

Sure, but based on what Keith has said the 3DTV can convert that to other 3D methods so it doesn't sound like that would be an issue.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

http://pro.jvc.com/pro/pr/2009/nab/3D_Monitor.html

And I believe the cost of that 46" 3D LCD is $9000.

And neither of those 3D formats offer Full HD per eye:

http://www.jvc.eu/3d_monitor/technology/video.html

Well that 3D display was released in Japan last April so it is no surprise that it doesn't support HDMI 1.4. The cost of that display isn't encouraging but that was a professional model so I think we will have a better idea of the cost of 3D polarized LCD displays by the end of this year.
Richard Paul is offline  
post #10 of 15 Old 01-29-2010, 08:07 PM
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 19,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

Sure, but based on what Keith has said the 3DTV can convert that to other 3D methods so it doesn't sound like that would be an issue.

True - no issue - was just addressing what is native on the disc. Like 1080x24P for 2D BD movies


Quote:


Well that 3D display was released in Japan last April so it is no surprise that it doesn't support HDMI 1.4. The cost of that display isn't encouraging but that was a professional model so I think we will have a better idea of the cost of 3D polarized LCD displays by the end of this year.

And the issue of non Full HD per eye?
Lee Stewart is offline  
post #11 of 15 Old 01-29-2010, 08:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Richard Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,955
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

And the issue of non Full HD per eye?

Well that is an issue with that 3D display.
Richard Paul is offline  
post #12 of 15 Old 01-29-2010, 08:24 PM
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 19,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

Well that is an issue with that 3D display.

From your Samsung link:

Quote:


The RealD Format is an enhanced version of a side-by-side 3D format that uses a unique set of filters and other technology that multiplexes a left eye and right eye 3D image stream into a single channel for delivery of high definition 3D content using today's HD infrastructure to any 3D-enabled display type

Side by side is half Hort. full Vert. resolution per eye.
Lee Stewart is offline  
post #13 of 15 Old 01-29-2010, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
8:13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
passive polarized 3D can be frame sequential full resolution per eye:

"The Sony 3D lens adapter maximizes the exclusive technology of the 4K SXRD® imaging device, which displays four times as many pixels as conventional 2K projectors for digital cinema. This allows full 2K resolution for the left and right eye simultaneously, resulting in a high-luminance, full-resolution stereoscopic cinema presentation and is designed to enable more faithful reproduction of motion in 3D."

link

Reading that article from the sony website it states:
"conventional 2K projectors for digital cinema" is replaced by a 4k projector.
"This allows full 2K resolution for the left and right eye simultaneously, resulting in a high-luminance, full-resolution stereoscopic cinema presentation and is designed to enable more faithful reproduction of motion in 3D."

So passive polarized glasses can be full 1080p if the resolution of the monitor is twice that of 1080p. So the only glasses available this year and for many years is for 1080p tv's, meaning only active polarization glasses will be blu ray 3D compatible.

So those companies selling 3D tv's intending to use passive polarized glasses won't meet the 3D specification the bd association made late last year. Unless those tv's are twice the resolution of 1080p.

If a family went to one of these 4K real D 3d movies using passive glasses and think 3D tv uses the same technology, they will be surprised to see the new tv's use active technology in the glasses, not passive.


There is new, and then you are new.
This is a moral of the bears and their cereal.
8:13 is offline  
post #14 of 15 Old 01-29-2010, 09:23 PM
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 19,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8:13 View Post

passive polarized 3D can be frame sequential full resolution per eye:

"The Sony 3D lens adapter maximizes the exclusive technology of the 4K SXRD® imaging device, which displays four times as many pixels as conventional 2K projectors for digital cinema. This allows full 2K resolution for the left and right eye simultaneously, resulting in a high-luminance, full-resolution stereoscopic cinema presentation and is designed to enable more faithful reproduction of motion in 3D."

link

Reading that article from the sony website it states:
"conventional 2K projectors for digital cinema" is replaced by a 4k projector.
"This allows full 2K resolution for the left and right eye simultaneously, resulting in a high-luminance, full-resolution stereoscopic cinema presentation and is designed to enable more faithful reproduction of motion in 3D."

So passive polarized glasses can be full 1080p if the resolution of the monitor is twice that of 1080p. So the only glasses available this year and for many years is for 1080p tv's, meaning only active polarization glasses will be blu ray 3D compatible.

So those companies selling 3D tv's intending to use passive polarized glasses won't meet the 3D specification the bd association made late last year. Unless those tv's are twice the resolution of 1080p.

Sure - you are talking about $100,000+ equipment and Sony is using the under/over method of 3D with those 4K digital PJ's.

Lee Stewart is offline  
post #15 of 15 Old 01-30-2010, 04:45 AM
Moderator
 
PooperScooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Leominster MA
Posts: 19,744
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Sorry, we don't need yet another 3D BD thread. Please continue in one of the other threads.

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
PooperScooper is offline  
Closed Thread HDTV Software Media Discussion

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off