Invictus, Or "Why Blu-Ray Sucks" - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 41 Old 06-17-2010, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Blu-Ray movies have annoyed me pretty much since day one. But, Invictus reached a new low.. making it the last BD I'll ever buy.

I've come to expect every Blu-Ray movie to start with an advertisement for Blu-Ray (why?!?) and this one didn't disappoint. Like most discs, it refused to let me jump to the menu. But, unlike most others, it even rejected the ability to skip past the ad. It rejected ALL requests to jump to anything else. The only thing that worked was the slow Fast Forward option.

Of course, Fast Forward stops at the end of the current ad, and needs to be restarted for the next one, and so on, and so on.... The total of all the unskippable garbage greeting the viewer was:

Piracy warning
WB Logo
Blu-Ray Ad (1Min)
Ad for "Clint Eastwood Collection" (2:22)
Ad for Clash of the Titans (2:11)
Ad for AFI (1:08)
Ad for Casablanca (1:16)
Ad for "Dirty Harry Collection" (1:50)


As luck would have it, the player locked up after the last ad, before the movie started. So, I got to enjoy them all again after restarting the blu-ray player.


The inability to skip the forced ads, along with the lack of 'resume where I left off' when the player is restarted, give the impression that their attitude towards their customer is "screw you, you will sit through my advertisements because it benefits me. You've already paid for the movie when you discover this, so I have no reason to accommodate your needs, because you cannot return it for a refund once you've opened it."



Sorry for the venting.. I just got fed up with this crap after trying to watch this movie. Next time I'll go with iTunes and rent it.
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post #2 of 41 Old 06-17-2010, 02:59 PM
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The movie being boring didn't help either did it?
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post #3 of 41 Old 06-17-2010, 03:03 PM
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Just an fyi-
It's no different on DVD.

I've noticed this on some titles but not all and do have to through each Ad/preview segment as you noted.
This is espeically true on the new RENTAL discs that come in a gray colored disk.

Anyway, either way, if you watch/buy the DVD or blu-ray of a specific movie, you'll have to suffer through the ad/previews.
I'd rather suffer through the blu-ray and be rewarded with HD PQ/AQ instead of 480p if I get the DVD.

2014
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post #4 of 41 Old 06-17-2010, 03:15 PM
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I actually like the trailers at the beginning of movies. Sometimes the trailers are more exciting.

I rented The Taking of Pelham 1 2 3 one night. Turned it on, got things ready and sat down. The movie started right away. This shocked me. I turned to my wife and said "Where are my movie trailers and what is up with the 70's into music?" Damn movie store game me the version that was made in 1974. I don't know if I was more upset about getting the wrong version of the movie or the fact that it didn't have any movie trailers in the beginning.

James
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post #5 of 41 Old 06-17-2010, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flexin View Post

I actually like the trailers at the beginning of movies. Sometimes the trailers are more exciting.

I rented The Taking of Pelham 1 2 3 one night. Turned it on, got things ready and sat down. The movie started right away. This shocked me. I turned to my wife and said "Where are my movie trailers and what is up with the 70's into music?" Damn movie store game me the version that was made in 1974. I don't know if I was more upset about getting the wrong version of the movie or the fact that it didn't have any movie trailers in the beginning.

James

Forced trailers on a rental are one thing. Forced trailers on a disc that you buy are a no-no. I don't want to be forced to sit through trailers for movies that came out in the theater 2-3 years ago. Warner should really be shot for forced trailers on Evictus. Dude actually bought a Warner disc rather than waiting a month to rent it on Netflix or Redbox. Warner's ticking off the few loyal customers they have left.

FTR, I've never seen forced trailers (other than the FBI Warning but that's not a trailer) on a DVD.

Still shaking my head that they still put Blu-ray commercials on Blu-Ray discs--on DVD's I can understand. On Blu-ray discs? Oy...
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post #6 of 41 Old 06-18-2010, 04:24 AM
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This is one reason why I consider an HTPC as the only blu-ray player worth having.

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post #7 of 41 Old 06-18-2010, 06:14 AM
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As much as it's not really legal, I can begin to understand why people rip BDs. I believe, with that process - not that I've tried it of course - things like adverts, FBI and interpol warnings and the like can all be removed.

The film, keeping all the best bits (ie the film and best soundtrack), then just plays from the begining, with no nasty other stuff.

Not sure if the resume feature works (like I said, I haven't tried it), but I'll take that with the other crap gone....

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post #8 of 41 Old 06-18-2010, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tji View Post

Blu-Ray movies have annoyed me pretty much since day one. But, Invictus reached a new low.. making it the last BD I'll ever buy.

I've come to expect every Blu-Ray movie to start with an advertisement for Blu-Ray (why?!?) and this one didn't disappoint. Like most discs, it refused to let me jump to the menu. But, unlike most others, it even rejected the ability to skip past the ad. It rejected ALL requests to jump to anything else. The only thing that worked was the slow Fast Forward option.

Of course, Fast Forward stops at the end of the current ad, and needs to be restarted for the next one, and so on, and so on.... The total of all the unskippable garbage greeting the viewer was:

Piracy warning
WB Logo
Blu-Ray Ad (1Min)
Ad for "Clint Eastwood Collection" (2:22)
Ad for Clash of the Titans (2:11)
Ad for AFI (1:08)
Ad for Casablanca (1:16)
Ad for "Dirty Harry Collection" (1:50)


As luck would have it, the player locked up after the last ad, before the movie started. So, I got to enjoy them all again after restarting the blu-ray player.


The inability to skip the forced ads, along with the lack of 'resume where I left off' when the player is restarted, give the impression that their attitude towards their customer is "screw you, you will sit through my advertisements because it benefits me. You've already paid for the movie when you discover this, so I have no reason to accommodate your needs, because you cannot return it for a refund once you've opened it."



Sorry for the venting.. I just got fed up with this crap after trying to watch this movie. Next time I'll go with iTunes and rent it.

Skipping ads on Invictus worked fine for me (PS3), and Invictus (and other new WB releases) does support "resume where I left off" - after the intro though.
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post #9 of 41 Old 06-18-2010, 06:30 AM
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Hit Stop -> Stop -> Play on your remote. This bypasses all the crap and takes you to the movie.
http://cnettv.cnet.com/skip-dvd-trai...html?tag=mncol
(wait for the video to start on the link)

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post #10 of 41 Old 06-18-2010, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seggers View Post

As much as it's not really legal, I can begin to understand why people rip BDs. I believe, with that process - not that I've tried it of course - things like adverts, FBI and interpol warnings and the like can all be removed.

The film, keeping all the best bits (ie the film and best soundtrack), then just plays from the begining, with no nasty other stuff.

Not sure if the resume feature works (like I said, I haven't tried it), but I'll take that with the other crap gone....

Seggers

I rip my discs to make my playback quieter no other reason. I rip as full disc structure and rarely bother to clean it down to just the movie (although I do this with HDDVD that I convert to BD).

Anydvd HD allows me to play discs from anywhere on the planet and it lets me skip through menus till my heart's content. I do not pirate ...bit pointless as I work in the film industry.

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post #11 of 41 Old 06-18-2010, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allargon View Post

...FTR, I've never seen forced trailers (other than the FBI Warning but that's not a trailer) on a DVD.

Here is a thread from 2004 talking about forced trailers on DVDs.
http://forums.dvdfile.com/soapbox/49...-trailers.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by allargon View Post

Still shaking my head that they still put Blu-ray commercials on Blu-Ray discs--on DVD's I can understand. On Blu-ray discs? Oy...

Did DVD not advertise on DVDs?

Here is a whole slew of DVD ads by Toshiba.


You mean to tell me when DVD first came out there weren't commercials on them about how DVD had superb audio and video?
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post #12 of 41 Old 06-18-2010, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tji View Post

I've come to expect every Blu-Ray movie to start with an advertisement for Blu-Ray (why?!?)

There are several reasons I can think of. First, it reinforces that you made a smart decision and chose the superior audio/video format. Secondly, it lets your spouse, if you have one, know you made the right choice as well.
Thirdly, you may have guests viewing who don't own Blu-Ray yet. It lets them know you are smarter than they are, and they better upgrade too.

Pure psychology!

Art
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post #13 of 41 Old 06-18-2010, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

Just an fyi-
It's no different on DVD.

Don't all or most DVDs let you 'resume where you left off'? But lots of BDs don't.
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post #14 of 41 Old 06-18-2010, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

Don't all or most DVDs let you 'resume where you left off'? But lots of BDs don't.

Using my PS3's I could always resume where I left off on any BD I tried.

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post #15 of 41 Old 06-18-2010, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjb16 View Post

Using my PS3's I could always resume where I left off on any BD I tried.

Every one that uses BD-J?
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post #16 of 41 Old 06-18-2010, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

Every one that uses BD-J?

I'm just going to guess no.

I just said every BD I've tried has had no issue picking up where I left off. No more, no less. I would think I'd have come across one that didn't by now if it was an egregious amount is all.

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post #17 of 41 Old 06-18-2010, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post

Here is a thread from 2004 talking about forced trailers on DVDs.
http://forums.dvdfile.com/soapbox/49...-trailers.html



Did DVD not advertise on DVDs?

Here is a whole slew of DVD ads by Toshiba.


You mean to tell me when DVD first came out there weren't commercials on them about how DVD had superb audio and video?

Those are very effective commercials. Makes me want to go out and buy one of those new-fangled DVD players.

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post #18 of 41 Old 06-18-2010, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

Don't all or most DVDs let you 'resume where you left off'? But lots of BDs don't.

Have you tried using the Bookmark feature?

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post #19 of 41 Old 06-19-2010, 02:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

Have you tried using the Bookmark feature?

I shouldn't have to. I should be able to press stop/pause for a while and carry on later from exactly where I left off without having to add bookmarks, and without having to wait ages while it loads up again then going to scene selection to try to find out where I left off. Resuming from where you left off should be as easy and standard as DVD and Blu-ray releases that don't use BD-J.
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post #20 of 41 Old 06-19-2010, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

I shouldn't have to. I should be able to press stop/pause for a while and carry on later from exactly where I left off without having to add bookmarks, and without having to wait ages while it loads up again then going to scene selection to try to find out where I left off. Resuming from where you left off should be as easy and standard as DVD and Blu-ray releases that don't use BD-J.

I agree that blu-ray should inherit the DVD resume/playback feature but where in the blu-ray specs or in a player manual does it state this is a feature?

*The player manual does mention the use of the Bookmark feature & it's use.

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post #21 of 41 Old 06-19-2010, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

I agree that blu-ray should inherit the DVD resume/playback feature but where in the blu-ray specs or in a player manual does it state this is a feature?

*The player manual does mention the use of the Bookmark feature & it's use.

Page 17 of the Panasonic DMP-BD60/80 manual

Quote:


Stop [stop button icon]
The stopped position is memorized.

Resume play function
Press [1] (PLAY) to restart from this position.
≥The position is cleared if the tray is opened or you press [∫]
several times to display “STOP” on unit’s display.
≥[BD-V]: On BD-Video discs including BD-J (�� 42), the resume
play function does not work.

Well on some BD-J discs it works - if it the BD-J code has been written to do it.

Index page of Panasonic DMP-BD60/80 manual
Quote:


Resume play function . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .17

and a couple of other places.


It's not just 'resume' that BD-J causes problems with, but other playback controls (eg. trick play functions) that BD-J causes problems with, depending on the player. Not just BD-J either but any Blu-ray title according to page 17 of the BD60/80 manual, eg. on BD-V slow motion only works in forwards (I guess on DVD it works backwards too), on BD-V frame advance only works forward (I guess on DVD it works backwards too), etc. Even Frame Advance doesn't work on some BD-J titles with the BD80.

Basically Blu-ray (and BD-J) should give you more functionality than DVD and not less. Features that worked on DVD should work on Blu-ray (BD-J is supposed to be about 'enhanced interactivity' yet some of the interactive features of DVD and also some non-BD-J Blu-ray titles, don't work on BD-J Blu-ray releases, also loading times are a lot longer for BD-J too.

This is the Resume function of the Pioneer DV-600AV DVD player which can remember the playback position of 5 DVDs - unlike with Blu-ray BD-J titles, most of which aren't able to remember the playback position of 1:
Quote:


Resume and Last Memory
With the exception of DVD-Audio and SACD
discs, when you stop playback of a DVD, CD, or
Video CD/Super VCD or DivX video/WMV
discs,
RESUME
is shown in the display
indicating that you can resume playback again
from that point.
If the disc tray is not opened, the next time you
start playback the display shows
RESUME
and playback resumes from the resume point. (If
you want to clear the resume point, press

(stop) while
RESUME
is displayed.)
With DVDs and Video CD/Super VCDs, if you
take the disc out of the player after stopping
playback, the last play position is stored in
memory. If the next disc you load is the same
one, the display shows
LAST MEM
and playback will resume. For DVD-Video discs,
the player stores the play position of the last
five discs. When one of these discs is next
loaded, you can resume playback.

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post #22 of 41 Old 06-19-2010, 06:48 PM
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As I understand it, "Resume Play" along with "Time Search" are functions that Blu-ray can handle if the studios releasing the discs incorporate them. Most studios don't bother to utilize these functions, presumably because they are extra steps and extra cost. If people don't complain, the studios don't change.

As far as Blu-ray discs having more forced trailers and promos at start-up, I don't see it. I've found more regular DVDs with forced trailers than BDs. And in terms of the sheer number of "unforced" trailers and promos at start-up, I'd say DVD still easily wins the day. As far as studios are concerned, Disney seems intent on selling everything in its catalogue to youngsters by putting a ton of promos at the beginning of all their family pictures. I think I counted a dozen or more clicks of the Advance button on some of their discs before being able to play the movie.

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post #23 of 41 Old 06-19-2010, 09:10 PM
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I also think that on many titles and maybe on this Blu-ray, you are only subjected to these promotions once. If you put the physical disc in a second time to re watch it, it might actually skip those introduction previews as it might be noted on your player's persistent memory for that specific title. Not to say that its not overboard just inflicting on you one time isn't overboard already.

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post #24 of 41 Old 06-20-2010, 08:38 AM
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I don't think I have come across a Blu-Ray disc yet that would not let me skip through the trailers and I own hundreds.
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post #25 of 41 Old 06-20-2010, 07:04 PM
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It is annoying but even more so when it's a disc that doesn't auto-resume. I wish more discs were like how Avatar was authored. Even worse is the "Blu-ray is a new format and it may take 2-3 minutes to load screen that itself takes like 10 seconds."
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post #26 of 41 Old 06-20-2010, 09:27 PM
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Funny... I rented this movie from Netflix, and while going through the trailers, i was thinking "I hope the people who buy this dont have to go through this crap" Guess they do.

I sorta liked it when the movie would just begin on a Warner title -- sure i hated that they defaulted to lossy DD, but that could be changed very easily without having to go to a menu...Now there are forced trailers that dont even look HD -- paramount and uni have been doing this too.... annoying...

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post #27 of 41 Old 06-21-2010, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adpayne View Post

Thirdly, you may have guests viewing who don't own Blu-Ray yet. It lets them know you are smarter than they are, and they better upgrade too.

Sorry, that's an unauthorized public performance. Didn't you read the forced FBI warning?

Movies look their best when they look like movies. More Patton-esque remasters!

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post #28 of 41 Old 06-23-2010, 04:09 PM
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I screened Invictus.... I think I got the BD for the screening.

I have other things to gripe about. Having to wait for ads / promo's / whatever else on titles isn't one of them I guess.
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post #29 of 41 Old 06-27-2010, 05:58 PM
 
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Darn, just when I was thinking about getting a Blu-ray player I hear this. Time to re-think that decision I guess!
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post #30 of 41 Old 06-28-2010, 09:59 AM
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The commercials are getting out of hand..... this stuff has actually be pushing me to rent more from the xbox360 via zune 1080p streaming over netflix/buying even when the movie qualty is a tad worse than bluray. Not everything but I have been renting more from there just to avoid buying movies.

Personally there is no way I would do itunes in its current situation..... there is too much of a difference between 1080p of bluray and the 720p stuff in itunes. Hopefully itunes upgrades to 1080p as well (like xbox/zune).
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