PS3 vs. HTPC DVD Upscaling Comparison PIX - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 11-04-2010, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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DVD upscaling screenshot battle!

PlayStation 3 upscaling settings (all enhancements off, "Normal" mode):


The "HTPC" caps are nothing fancy. AviSynth script used for the Lanczos shots:
Code:
MPEG2Source("VTS_01_1.d2v")

LanczosResize(1440,1080).AddBorders(240,0,240,0)
ConvertToRGB()
madVR with default settings:


PS3 was captured via HDMI at 1920x1080i60, which for still videos is equivalent to 1080p (and progressive frames were picked out of the 3-2 pulldown sources). Capture format is YUY2, 4:2:2 YCbCr uncompressed. HDCP be damned...

I'll take suggestions for other content to try if anyone has any.
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post #2 of 25 Old 11-04-2010, 10:24 PM - Thread Starter
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PS3 "Disc" Mode vs ... PS3 "File" Mode vs ... HTPC Lanczos vs HTPC madVR Default





Sony PlayStation 3 vs HTPC Lanczos vs .. HTPC madVR Default






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post #3 of 25 Old 11-05-2010, 11:25 AM
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This is interesting. It looks like the PS3 does a better job up-scaling the images, but it does some cropping. I wonder why that is.
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post #4 of 25 Old 11-13-2010, 12:05 PM
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Very cool comparison. Would be interesting to see how madVR fits in.
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post #5 of 25 Old 11-13-2010, 02:35 PM
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Pretty impressive upscaling I suppose. Too bad 99.9% of dvds are filtered and/or compressed to hell so no detail is left to upscale.
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post #6 of 25 Old 11-14-2010, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkAsh View Post

This is interesting. It looks like the PS3 does a better job up-scaling the images, but it does some cropping. I wonder why that is.

Technically both are software based upscaling, so should be equally good all things equal.
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post #7 of 25 Old 11-15-2010, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I added madVR to the lineup, using its default settings. My method was to disable "exclusive" fullscreen mode and use Alt+PrintScreen on MPC-HC x86 with its inbuilt MPEG-2 renderer set to Weave. Don't bother comparing PNG filesizes since these were compressed with a different app than the others.

Basically the only visible difference vs the AviSynth is in the chroma, and the lowered artifacting and dulled reds are both due to madshi's clever application of a soft bicubic resize to chroma while upscaling luma with Lanczos.

I don't see anything else that stands out as unique amongst its upscaling settings but I've never really used it before, so if you have any suggested options I can try those.
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post #8 of 25 Old 11-18-2010, 07:37 AM
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The framing is not correct on the EIA Resolution Chart therefore the resolution numbers will not be correct. The 8 large white wedges should be at the raster boundaries. Also, this is a 4 x 3 chart, one should use a 16 x 9 chart(s) for 1080.

The up-scaling comparisons should still be valid.
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post #9 of 25 Old 11-18-2010, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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It doesn't take into account overscan? I just used what's available on this TVblink disc, so if you know of a correct source I would be interested.
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post #10 of 25 Old 11-19-2010, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

It doesn't take into account overscan?

I would associate the term Overscan with CRT type displays, there is no need for overscan in plasma, LCD, DLP or D-ILA displays. The EIA chart was intended to be used with a TV camera to check the cameras performance. For the numbers to be meaningful you had to frame the chart so the wedges just touched the raster boundaries.

Quote:
I just used what's available on this TVblink disc, so if you know of a correct source I would be interested.

We are in the process of moving and all my DVD & Blu-ray test disc (and associated printed materials) have been packed away so I have no reference material at this time. AVS member dr1394 (Ron) has quite a few test patterns on his site, click here for info.
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post #11 of 25 Old 11-19-2010, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Ah, well I'm not really up to doing the colorspace conversions and MPEG-2 encoding from those raw files while ensuring that accuracy is maintained. Hopefully the DVE shots I've added will do.

I've also added some shots showing the difference when 1.33 content is played back as a file from a thumb drive instead of as a DVD-Video. Less cropping, and both luma and chroma are handled in a different way. Unfortunately, there is no way to switch to YCbCr when in file mode so I had the PS3 output RGB Limited with the capture card doing the conversion to YUY2 (evidently adding some light dithering). I confirmed with S&M that the relatively large shifts taking place aren't as a result of this conversion however.

I replaced the two initial Lanczos shots containing color, because I found that my YV12 system codec was doing blocky chroma upsampling (new Windows install..). I'm using AviSynth to convert all of them now.
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post #12 of 25 Old 11-21-2010, 04:27 PM
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Stop the thread.

Did you all make sure to turn off the special filter options on the PS3 THAT ONLY APPEAR WHEN YOU ARE PLAYING A STANDARD DVD??!

If you don't know what I am talking about, you better do some more research.
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post #13 of 25 Old 11-22-2010, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Is that a general question to the audience? I showed two pics of my settings in the first post.
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post #14 of 25 Old 12-13-2010, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkAsh View Post

This is interesting. It looks like the PS3 does a better job up-scaling the images, but it does some cropping. I wonder why that is.

Really? Looked to me like the PS3 was over sharpened and on the color tests, the PS3 had some color bleeding. They do look similar though. (of course, I'm looking at them on a computer monitor at work. although, for these comparisons, I dont think that really matters here. I doubt much would change if I looked at home on my 50" 1080p TV.)

I guess its preference. I prefer a smooth, clean image (for upscaled content) over a edgy picture with ringing. I suppose on a small screen, an over-sharpened image looks nice.

Maybe if you get bored, msgohan, you could compare the PS3's Mosquito NR to PC. That would interest me (probably other to?), but I know it takes some work to do these things. Don't blame ya if you didn't want to.

How do you take the PS3's screencaps, btw? (I dont have one, but curious if it was some external device that would be useful on other equipment.)
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post #15 of 25 Old 12-13-2010, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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A PCIe card called the AVerMedia AVerTV HD DVR.

I can't say I've ever been interested in the mosquito filters, so do you know if there are PC equivalents to compare against? Or what content would be a good test?

I did a few more comparisons with some AviSynth resize filters by tritical, though I didn't bother posting them. The results with his "edge-directed interpolation" filters were close enough to the PS3 that I think it's safe to say it relies on a similar implementation for upsizing.
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post #16 of 25 Old 12-13-2010, 07:30 PM
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IMO. PlayStation3 wins hands down.

Question. Were can I get a DVD/Blu-Ray that the content of what you used in the OP? I could lose something like that.
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post #17 of 25 Old 12-13-2010, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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The first set is a free download from www.tvblink.com. The second is from Digital Video Essentials, available as a standalone DVD or as the SD side of their HD DVD. They have two Blu-ray versions as well but I think those only contain HD content.
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post #18 of 25 Old 12-13-2010, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

The first set is a free download from www.tvblink.com. The second is from Digital Video Essentials, available as a standalone DVD or as the SD side of their HD DVD. They have two Blu-ray versions as well but I think those only contain HD content.

Thanks. I'll be looking onto this.
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post #19 of 25 Old 05-18-2013, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Working links for the pics, and I've added the NNEDI3 pics that I mentioned. Since it only upscales by powers of 2 I used a NNEDI3+Lanczos combo.
Code:
nnedi3_rpow2(rfactor=4,qual=2).LanczosResize(1440,1080).AddBorders(240,0,240,0) #4:3
nnedi3_rpow2(rfactor=4,qual=2).LanczosResize(1920,1080) #16:9

Settings
abtO6B8Q.jpg adkWTEqn.jpg
acxEeEv1.jpg adjWZOUH.jpg

TVblink
......... HTPC Lanczos vs .......... HTPC madVR Default vs ........... HTPC NNEDI3 vs ............. PS3 "Disc" Mode vs ....... PS3 "File" Mode (RGB)
adxA7CLb.jpg acsTJ9Uu.jpg adfKW9rs.jpg abfC3dqv.jpg absiZiLr.jpg
abcTSf7t.jpg adqbj9z9.jpg adnQySY7.jpg abefEw1K.jpg aduLj1Nq.jpg
abi8icxE.jpg abnOZb1N.jpg abdPPYaS.jpg adfrrPy7.jpg abmU5jlY.jpg

Digital Video Essentials
......... HTPC Lanczos vs .......... HTPC madVR Default vs ........... HTPC NNEDI3 vs ............. PS3 "Disc" Mode
abbpD66M.jpg adhIUxLr.jpg acsQkDQ9.jpg acwSavNd.jpg
adlHCLBK.jpg adnV6Fmd.jpg acmyK5db.jpg adxChasE.jpg

......... HTPC Lanczos vs .......... HTPC madVR Default vs ........ PS3 "Disc" Mode
adm28MSS.jpg adnsagfD.jpg abjdJYcN.jpg
adlBnzEf.jpg adxwt0N0.jpg abcVGk2y.jpg
abkaHKol.jpg accCdZjh.jpg aci0uf5d.jpg
abhwkTEN.jpg abjd3RaR.jpg acwOjBsN.jpg
acoNoMxl.jpg adsPmX4S.jpg abdmH8pj.jpg
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post #20 of 25 Old 05-19-2013, 02:09 AM
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Excellent work.. i really appreciate your time.

Could you plz give some more information about madvr settings.
Which are the default settings?
What about Lancozs? Did you activate the anti-ringing filter?
Did you try Jinc algorithm ,too?

I would also like to know how you set up nnedi3?
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post #21 of 25 Old 05-19-2013, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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My madVR and NNEDI3 settings are right there in the post and Lanczos is in the OP so I'm not sure what else you're looking for there.

Does Jinc give noticeable differences?
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post #22 of 25 Old 05-19-2013, 02:08 PM
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nnedi3 offers superior PQ but I really like also what ps3 can do.
Whats your opinion? Did you notice any differencies on real life content between HTPC & PS3?
You used softcubic 100 for chroma and lanczos4 for luma.
I think lanczos4 produces a lot of ringing.
You could download a newer version of madvr and try Jinc3 with Anti-Ringing for luma.
You may like it you may not ...


Could you also give some more infos about how you setup nnedi3?
Some more step-by-step instructions maybe?
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post #23 of 25 Old 05-20-2013, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony_Montana View Post

Could you also give some more infos about how you setup nnedi3?

I'm getting the impression that you want to use it for real-time playback, but it's an Avisynth filter designed for transcodes. On my machine I get 4fps.
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post #24 of 25 Old 05-07-2014, 03:00 AM
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nothing in one year on this thread ! Here i go:

1- can someone explain why on earth hasn't there been a better sd upscaler (hardware or software) than the 10 year old PS3 ?
2- during these past 12 months since this topic, has there been advancements in HTPC upscaling ?
3- ok MDvr and the likes are effective....but are they usefull on small screen sizes (42"-50") ? is there even a point in wanting the best upscaling for small tv's ?
4- at the end of the day, what is better hardware upscaling (like the new ps4 does) of software upscaling (one again like the reference ps3 does) ? why ?
thanx !
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post #25 of 25 Old 05-10-2014, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

I'm getting the impression that you want to use it for real-time playback, but it's an Avisynth filter designed for transcodes. On my machine I get 4fps.

How time flies. One year later, and now madVR offers real-time NNEDI3 upscaling (if you have a decent GPU).
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