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post #31 of 179 Old 01-25-2011, 09:42 PM - Thread Starter
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"Law & Order: SVU" Season 9, Episode 1 (HD / 5.1) - X-High just to show it's the same approx quality as S11


"Law & Order: SVU" Season 11, Episode 24 - Netflix at all quality levels (Medium HD == High here for some reason) vs HDTV 1080i MPEG-2 12Mbps


Netflix X-High HD/5.1 vs HDTV 1080i MPEG-2 12Mbps


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post #32 of 179 Old 01-26-2011, 06:01 AM
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Interesting. So those are broadcast pics? Who is your cable/sat provider?

Netflix looks better in all those shots to me, except the one with the chain link fence (where Netflix looks significantly worse).

Of course I have always thought the Netflix HD looked on par with my FiOS feed, but that can vary a lot depending on your provider and your local channel (for example, my CBS affiliate is completely horrible....tons of breakup and macroblocking all over the place).
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post #33 of 179 Old 01-26-2011, 09:35 AM
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Some of those are pretty sharp images, interesting that the Netflix images seem to have a pronounced red tint over the broadcast images. Very noticeable in the image with the 2 detectives.
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post #34 of 179 Old 04-05-2011, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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"The Twilight Zone" Season 3, Episode 8 (HD) - X-High vs Blu-ray



Was just curious how this series looks on streaming. Just like SVU, Netflix seems to have some resizing or filtering slightly affecting vertical resolution but not horizontal.
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post #35 of 179 Old 04-05-2011, 06:21 PM
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Definitely a case of "good enough" for me (honestly, I don't see much difference in the screenshots...definitely not enough to convince me I need to order the discs anyways). I am excited to rewatch these, but don't care about the BD's.

Hmmm...I wonder if my 9 year old would appreciate these at all or if he'd be bored out of his mind. Stupid unappreciative kids today **pulls pants up to chest and shakes cane at sky**
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post #36 of 179 Old 04-05-2011, 11:04 PM
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Did not realize that Netflix had Twilight Zone for streaming. I just added seasons 1 and 3 to my instant queue, but where is season 2?
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post #37 of 179 Old 04-06-2011, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Matt View Post

Did not realize that Netflix had Twilight Zone for streaming. I just added seasons 1 and 3 to my instant queue, but where is season 2?

Right here: http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Th...?trkid=2361637

They also have season 5. For some reason, can't find season 4 though.
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post #38 of 179 Old 04-11-2011, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mproper View Post

Right here: http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Th...?trkid=2361637

They also have season 5. For some reason, can't find season 4 though.

How did I miss it! Thanks for this. Looks like I will at least watch the first 3 seasons.
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post #39 of 179 Old 07-28-2011, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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"Star Trek: Enterprise" Season 1, Episode 1 (HD) - X-High


When it looks good it's great, but compression is laughable at times and the resolution drops whenever there's a VFX shot (with the exception of the opening theme).
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post #40 of 179 Old 07-29-2011, 02:52 PM
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I thought this thread was dead, so thanks for posting some more shots. I've been working my way through Enterprise. I quit watching it when it was on because it was so bad starting out, but I had heard it really picked up and that I probably cancelled my season pass too soon.

I've noticed the same issues you point out. Not one of their better encodings.
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post #41 of 179 Old 08-02-2011, 09:48 AM
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I just caught a reference to this thread (by mproper) in the "Best possible Netflix streaming device thread". Thank you very, very much for this work msgohan. It's great having shots like this since I can load them in separate browser tabs and switch between them instantly for comparison.

I'm blown away by how well Netflix does with a 5.1 Mpbs 1080p encoding. If you ever have the time and inclination, I'd love to see a series of frames comparing X-High/HD and High/HD (I've seen the one from "Netflix at all quality levels").

Again, thanks a lot for making and posting these shots!

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post #42 of 179 Old 08-02-2011, 09:11 PM - Thread Starter
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"Ong Bak 2: The Beginning" (HD / 5.1) - High vs X-High







Looks like they messed up the subs on the 1080p encode. Wonder if the same holds for the other devices.
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post #43 of 179 Old 08-02-2011, 09:44 PM
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Thanks for those! Was the choice of Ong Bak 2 due to the fact that it's my bandwidth testing standard ?

Very little to choose between the High/HD and X-High/HD for those screens; the higher resolution version is sharper, but you have to strain to see it. I saw more difference in those L&O:SVU front credits screens. I've run through the first 14 minutes of that film a gazillion times (haven't watched any more of it than that) and never noticed that the subtitle descenders get chopped off in the X-High/HD version. If someone asked, I'd advise them to cap their screen resolution at 720p when viewing that.

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post #44 of 179 Old 08-03-2011, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I recalled you talking about it and there's a mix of high-action shots and closeups so I thought it was an interesting comparison. If you have another/different suggestion for content I can take a look.

I did a couple other comparisons with Blu-ray vs Vudu that I didn't post in this thread, by the way:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post20216078
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post19872738
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post #45 of 179 Old 08-03-2011, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Yeah, I recalled you talking about it and there's a mix of high-action shots and closeups so I thought it was an interesting comparison. If you have another/different suggestion for content I can take a look.

I chose Ong Bak 2 because it begins a long sequence of difficult to encode material (martial arts fight scenes in the rain, etc), which should result in a stream averaging the maximum bit rate (it does ). It was also available in HD on Netflix, Amazon VOD (Prime Eligible), VUDU and Zune, so I could make apples-to-apples comparisons.

It'd be nice to see shots of lots of stuff in motion at the same time--an explosion or maybe a plate glass window shattering. The only thing that comes to mind is the subway scene at the beginning of Underworld but it's not available as a Netflix stream. There have to be endless other thngs but I can't remember any.

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post #46 of 179 Old 08-03-2011, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post
Yeah, I recalled you talking about it and there's a mix of high-action shots and closeups so I thought it was an interesting comparison. If you have another/different suggestion for content I can take a look.
Choose some frames from the title sequence of The Resident. Abstract graphics with lots and lots of sharp, distinct details.

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post #47 of 179 Old 08-05-2011, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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"The Resident" opening titles (HD) - High vs X-High





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post #48 of 179 Old 08-06-2011, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

"The Resident" opening titles (HD) - High vs X-High

Thank you very much. Even in those, the difference is pretty subtle.

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post #49 of 179 Old 08-16-2011, 10:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Can't remember if I've posted this before; it's a scaling comparison of the same L&O SVU credits shot seen above.

On the left is the the High HD image output from the PS3 at 1080p, and on the right is the High HD output at 720p and then scaled using Lanczos. It's sharper and more contrasty, but also results in more ringing on the text.

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post #50 of 179 Old 08-17-2011, 05:47 AM
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Odd, I think the first one looks sharper in pretty much every way. In fact, the upscaled one looks noticeably worse to me in pretty much every way. I'm specifically looking at the letters, the hair on the top of his head, and his right shoulder (the edge looks a bit smoother but blurrier on the upscaled shot).
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post #51 of 179 Old 08-17-2011, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmm. I'll wait for someone else to tell us who is the crazy one.
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post #52 of 179 Old 10-10-2011, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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The BD and HDTV shots are from eric.exe's post. Sadly, Netflix is using the old master instead of the fresh Blu-ray transfer even though the movie was only added 9 days ago.

"Breakfast at Tiffany's" (HD) - Blu-ray vs HDTV vs X-High




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post #53 of 179 Old 10-12-2011, 02:18 PM
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Thanks again for the shots. Too bad NF is using the old master.

Still, it's as good as the HDTV shots, so I'm happy (considering NF costs me 1/10th of what cable costs me, give or take).

Keep the shots coming!
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post #54 of 179 Old 10-12-2011, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

"Ong Bak 2: The Beginning" (HD / 5.1) - High vs X-High







Looks like they messed up the subs on the 1080p encode. Wonder if the same holds for the other devices.

As promised in the Best Device thread, here is the new PS3 encode they are using starting sometime between my previous shots from early August and last night, with clipped subtitles on all quality levels. Insignia NS-BRDVD4-CA gets a different encode with proper subs (but overall worse compression).








The sharp-eyed may notice that this encode claims to be 6 seconds longer than the old one. In truth the credits end at 1:37:44 on both PS3 and PC, never reaching the end of the stated runtime.

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post #55 of 179 Old 10-12-2011, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

These captures just prove my point... these companies can claim their signals are HD but it does not mean they are quality HD signals. Welcome to the MP3 world of video. It looks great on a 5" portable device... but it could look like sh!t on my 100" projection screen. Sorry I will stick with BD for quality.

While a change in the BD specification would be difficult to implement, Netflix has the option of creating a new quality level above "X-High" with a higher bit-rate (or even a higher resolution or newer codec) that could match or exceed BD. Some North American ISPs now have download rates of over 100 Mb/s.
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post #56 of 179 Old 10-14-2011, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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"Law & Order" Season 2, Episode 22 (HD) - DVD vs X-High


While Season 1 is 16:9 HD, S2 appears to be either upscaled or badly DNR'd.
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post #57 of 179 Old 10-17-2011, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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100 IRE White Crosshatch with Circles 1920x1080 vs "Example 8 Hour 23.976"


The test pattern on the left was created by dr1394 in 2005 (also included in the AVS HD 709 set), while the right is the highest resolution "Example" video offered by Netflix. I feel this proves my earlier point that something is wrong with the vertical resolution on Netflix's 1080p streams while horizontal is perfect.

The bottom line in the pattern, 1 pixel high, is missing from the Netflix version and replaced with a greyed average, and essentially all other vertical lines are blurred to include grey.

I've replicated the issue almost exactly by applying a half-pixel shift to the screenshot of dr1394's pattern. Frankly I don't fully understand the usage of this filter so I'm not sure what would be involved in trying to reproduce the exact edge-subsampling happening on the Netflix image. This is the AviSynth filter I used, lifted directly from the example file of GeneralConvolution.
Code:
# Displacement by half pixel up (auto scaling):
GeneralConvolution(0, "
   0   1   0 
   0   1   0 
   0   0   0 ")
The result is this, which you can compare with the Netflix image above. Though don't strain yourself trying to find differences.


Trouble is... I don't know why anyone would deliberately do that to a 1080p source, or alternatively how it could happen accidentally. Perhaps it's not a problem with the stream itself but rather a longstanding bug in the PS3 app.

300% zoom of the bottom-right circle from each:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

dr1394


Netflix


dr1394 + half-pixel shift

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post #58 of 179 Old 10-17-2011, 10:28 PM
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There were similar problems that were confirmed by test patterns when Youtube first supported 720p videos. The actual encode had no problems (which was confirmed when the videos were manually downloaded and played in another media player) but the in-browser viewer reduced detail. Someone should try to contact Netflix about this.
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post #59 of 179 Old 10-18-2011, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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"Try" being the operative word. They haven't even fixed obvious problems that anyone can see (like stretched aspect ratios and cut off subtitles), let alone things that only us geeks comparing frames would notice.
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post #60 of 179 Old 10-18-2011, 02:28 PM
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Stumbled on the thread and I must say I'm glad I did .. now, I have some real info, without the work, to counter some of those "NF is crap" folks ..

thanks to you, msgohan

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