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post #121 of 179 Old 03-11-2012, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chachaseeds View Post

Do you think Zune quality is better than Vudu?

The first Zune shots that he posted were crap, but since then I'd say that many of them are noticeably sharper than VUDU. Kind of makes sense, inasmuch as they're 10 Mpbs versus 9 Mbps, but VUDU's encoding process is supposed to be something really special.

(I'd kind of appreciate not having the Zune scrub bar displayed and it covers a large amount of the image which often contains details I'd like to compare).

BTW, msgohan, I'd been wanting to see some Zune captures for comparison so I'm happy that you got an Xbox but curious as to your primary reason for getting one. Was there some Xbox exclusive that you had to play?

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post #122 of 179 Old 03-12-2012, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

(I'd kind of appreciate not having the Zune scrub bar displayed and it covers a large amount of the image which often contains details I'd like to compare).

It's there for my benefit as I grab frames sometimes days apart and find it helpful to have one shot that includes a timecode. I can probably include a small text overlay with an approx time instead.

Quote:


Was there some Xbox exclusive that you had to play?

Nope. My buddies have pretty much stopped doing multiplayer on PS3 and are now buying the 360 versions, mainly due to a friend in another city who only has an Xbox. A decent deal on Boxing Day got me on the bandwagon.
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post #123 of 179 Old 03-17-2012, 02:51 PM
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Do you have any of the new itunes 1080p encodes to compare? Quite the talk on the net about them this week.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/guides/...y-shootout.ars
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post #124 of 179 Old 03-17-2012, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

Do you have any of the new itunes 1080p encodes to compare? Quite the talk on the net about them this week.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/guides/...y-shootout.ars

I posted a pointer to this thread at the end of the discussion for that Ars piece (here). msgohan does have some iTunes frames, the first of which is in post #67. As I said there, to my eye iTunes is beaten by Zune and VUDU, but both of those services are encoded at twice the bit rate used by iTunes.

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post #125 of 179 Old 03-17-2012, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Those are only 720p iTunes. I'm currently really confused on what's available in 1080p as some list the resolutions and some just say HD. I'll try to add 1080p to that Breaking Bad post though.
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post #126 of 179 Old 03-17-2012, 04:04 PM
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It doesn't look like many things on iTunes can be downloaded in 1080p. The only thing I've come upon which say "HD 720, 1080p" and doesn't say "(download only 720p)" is Game of Thrones.

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post #127 of 179 Old 03-17-2012, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Those are only 720p iTunes. I'm currently really confused on what's available in 1080p as some list the resolutions and some just say HD. I'll try to add 1080p to that Breaking Bad post though.

There are lots of shows available in 1080p already. If it says HD 720p, 1080p in the description that means there is a 1080p version available for download. You have to upgrade to itunes 10.6 and change settings to prefer 1080p. If you look under free shows this is what I downloaded to test out. Not sure if all these are still available for free.

Awake 1x1
Big Bang Theory 5x1
Breaking In 2x1
GCB 1x1
Nikita 2x1
V 1x5
Vampire Diaries 3x1
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post #128 of 179 Old 03-17-2012, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

There are lots of shows available in 1080p already. If it says HD 720p, 1080p in the description that means there is a 1080p version available for download. You have to upgrade to itunes 10.6 and change settings to prefer 1080p. If you look under free shows this is what I downloaded to test out. Not sure if all these are still available for free.

Awake 1x1
Big Bang Theory 5x1
Breaking In 2x1
GCB 1x1
Nikita 2x1
V 1x5
Vampire Diaries 3x1

As I stated above, their description pages all say "HD: Includes 720p, 1080p (Downloading 720p)". (Only the episode of V and the GCB pilot are free right now).

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post #129 of 179 Old 03-17-2012, 11:15 PM - Thread Starter
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The "Downloading 720p" thing is a setting you swap under Preferences -> Store. It confused me at first because there is also a SD/720p/1080p setting on Preferences -> Playback.
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post #130 of 179 Old 03-18-2012, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

The "Downloading 720p" thing is a setting you swap under Preferences -> Store. It confused me at first because there is also a SD/720p/1080p setting on Preferences -> Playback.

That works .

EDIT: I downloaded the GCB pilot and when I tried to play it was told that the 1080p version of the title was "too large" to play on my computer, a Core 2 Quad with 6 GB of main memory. Certainly not the fastest machine on the block, but I play much larger files encoded at much higher bit rates all the time .

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post #131 of 179 Old 03-18-2012, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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A lot of people seem to be getting that message, and me too. They play decently after hitting OK, though without hardware decoding...

Can one of you guys take a shot from somewhere near the start of GCB for me? PrintScreen - > paste -> save into PNG works.

I found it easier to create my previous iTunes shots by decrypting the files and using regular decoders. That isn't an option with the 1080p files, and iTunes on my system apparently plays files with boosted contrast and colors. I'm trying to determine whether it's just me.



I can say that there are many scenes in the Breaking Bad episode where the 4660kbps 1080p looks worse than the 3973kbps 720p. Sometimes it can't handle the grain at all.
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post #132 of 179 Old 03-18-2012, 11:57 AM
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I hadn't notice that it would play it . It does suck up the CPU, taking about 50% on my machine. But then I'm watching video, so who cares?

What's the difference between "iTunes HD download 720p" and "iTunes HD download 720p in iTunes" (besides the obvious visual differences)? 1080p is much smoother but I'm generally not impressed, at least not in that example. I would certainly prefer it to the 720p.

EDIT: I tried to post a shot from the beginning of GCB as requested but Photobucket is screwing me over. It's here:
Code:
http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr304/mikeyts/.highres/GCB.png
You may be able to get to it by cutting and pasting it into the URL field of your browser; if I make it a link it will not work (though I can link to the reduced size version it creates ).

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post #133 of 179 Old 03-18-2012, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

What's the difference between "iTunes HD download 720p" and "iTunes HD download 720p in iTunes" (besides the obvious visual differences)?

Specifically, for the former I used the AviSynth plugin FFVideoSource (ffmpeg) to decompress the decrypted file and upscaled it using LanczosResize. The latter is the video played in iTunes over HDMI with a screen resolution of 1920x1080.

Thanks for the link, that worked. Did you download the 720p version of this or is something weird going on? The 1080p file is 1.71GB if you need to check.

Apart from the blur they look much the same, at least.

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post #134 of 179 Old 03-18-2012, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Thanks for the link, that worked. Did you download the 720p version of this or is something weird going on? The 1080p file is 1.71GB if you need to check.

Yep--it's the 1080p file, 1.7GB and as verified by MediaInfo. Perhaps it's not precisely the same frame or something.

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post #135 of 179 Old 03-18-2012, 01:54 PM
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I've noticed from the screenshots posted here and other places that the 1080p itunes don't appear to be that much improved over the 720p, and in some cases look worse. However, when actually watching them in motion on my 50" 1080p plasma, the 1080p files appear noticeably sharper. The other most notable improvement in the 1080p is way less banding. In comparing the same scene in 720p vs. 1080p where the 720p has noticeable banding on large areas of solid colors, this is reduced and 95% eliminated in the 1080p. This has to be a product of using better encoding settings and high profile with CABAC compression because the 1080p video bitrate is only 1000-1500 kbps higher than the 720p.

The 1080p upgrade isn't a "fall out of my chair in awe" difference, but given the choice and that there is no price difference I would recommend the 1080p download because of the encoding improvements and the overall better sharpness.

Sorry I can not post any screenshots as I have already deleted the episodes off my computer.
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post #136 of 179 Old 03-19-2012, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I had wanted to include the 720p version but apparently rentals can only be downloaded once.

iTunes 1080p .m4v: 4.81Mbps AVC 1916x1032
Blu-ray.com shots
Vudu 2-minute preview (1 shot)

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post #137 of 179 Old 03-19-2012, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

I had wanted to include the 720p version but apparently rentals can only be downloaded once.

Those frames don't compare well to BD at all.

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post #138 of 179 Old 03-19-2012, 10:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I had intended to include a frame of the Vudu preview but completely forgot. Added it now. I also see that today's 99-cent movie is Watchmen DC so I've grabbed that to compare with my multiple Blu-ray copies.

I'm not impressed by the few 1080p iTunes videos I've seen so far. After reading the short Ars Technica piece I was expecting good things. The start of the Breaking Bad ep with the B&W pool looks like garbage watching the 1080p copy, full of compression artifacts, while the 720p is much more stable. Midnight in Paris is stripped of the grain and the texture detail along with it.
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post #139 of 179 Old 03-22-2012, 01:39 AM
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There is literally no detail in those shots. It looks like upscaled dvd. Does it really look that bad in motion? The few tv shows I downloaded look fine. Certainly not Blu-ray quality but "good enough". Still curious why they went with an average bitrate of 5000 when their 720p is 4000. Even their 1080p movie trailers they put on their site are 8000-10000 kbps. 1080p really needs more bitrate than what they are giving it. Even keeping bitrate the same and switching to x264 for encoding might have produced better results than whatever they are using.

The sad thing is by switching to high profile encoding with CABAC compression, and increasing the bitrate to 5000, they probably would have produced some very nice looking encodes at 720p. But that wouldn't sell like "1080p" would it? Instead, we get bitstarved 1080p.

Do you have the BB pool episode pics? I'm quite familiar with that shot and would be interested in seeing the difference.
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post #140 of 179 Old 03-22-2012, 10:23 AM
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1080p Netflix is 4.8 Mbps AVC and it looks a ton better than iTunes, to me. msgohan, is there any possibility of getting some frames from both iTunes and Netflix to compare? An iTunes freebie of a title available on Netflix in HD?

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post #141 of 179 Old 03-22-2012, 11:35 AM
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In defense of itunes, Midnight in Paris is an incredibly grainy movie. Other stuff I've seen does not look nearly as bad. Apple outsources their encodings to different companies so quality is going to vary from release to release.
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post #142 of 179 Old 03-22-2012, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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The Blu-ray screenshots don't look particularly grainy to me, but the only way I've watched the movie is via the iTunes rental so I'll take your word for it. And to answer your question, yes that is how the iTunes 1080p looked in motion.

The Watchmen on Vudu vs BDs comparison I mentioned earlier is here.

I've added the Breaking Bad 1080p shots to the unwieldy large comparison in post #67, so there is one example of iTunes vs Netflix. The artifacts I'm talking about for the pool shots can't easily be shown in screenshots. What really stands out is interframe instability - you know, like pulsating.

Besides Mad Men, what's a detailed show that's 1080p on both iTunes and Netflix? Doesn't necessarily have to be free.
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post #143 of 179 Old 03-22-2012, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Besides Mad Men, what's a detailed show that's 1080p on both iTunes and Netflix? Doesn't necessarily have to be free.

Limitless. It's difficult finding something given there's no way to filter iTunes for 1080p. Virtually any HD Netflix title will have a 1080p encoding (or encodings, for a TV series).

EDIT: I never watched it, but the first season of Breakout Kings is on Netflix and iTunes in 1080p (iTunes also has season 2). I certainly have watched it and all 6 recent series of the revived Doctor Who are on both Netflix and 1080p Itunes (not in HD on either service until Series 5). iTunes has a lot of freebie HD Doctor Who clips which are sadly not available on Netflix.

Also not something I've watched, but Supernatural seasons 1-6 are available in HD on Netflix and 1080p on iTunes.

That will conclude my search for 1080p iTunes stuff also available on Netflix. I hope it helps .

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post #144 of 179 Old 03-23-2012, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

I've added the Breaking Bad 1080p shots to the unwieldy large comparison in post #67, so there is one example of iTunes vs Netflix. The artifacts I'm talking about for the pool shots can't easily be shown in screenshots. What really stands out is interframe instability - you know, like pulsating.

Those BB shots do look hit or miss. Some of the 1080p look noticeably sharper while others look less detailed and/or missing grain. The bitrate on those are a little low though at 4600. All of the itunes 1080p tv shows I've downloaded have had a video bitrate of 5000-5500 kbps.

Are you viewing these in itunes or have you removed the encryption and are playing it in another player? Itunes has a notoriously bad video decoder.
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post #145 of 179 Old 03-23-2012, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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See above where I said the encryption can't be removed and compared the 720p decoding. There's no resolution loss but the iTunes display messes with the greyscale and colors.

I saw that the first episode of The Killing is on Netflix so I'll compare that next. It is (was?) free on iTunes and Zune, but isn't on Vudu at all. Unfortunately it's another grainy AMC series so I'm not expecting to see anything new.
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post #146 of 179 Old 03-23-2012, 09:47 PM
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Ya, I forgot they haven't broke encryption on the 1080p files yet. I actually downloaded 1080p The Killing on itunes yesterday. Noticed a lot of banding on solid colors in dark scenes, using the itunes decoder of course.

I just looked at those BB 720p shots again and it is amazing how much worse the picture looks in itunes player vs external player. Itunes really washes out the picture and you lose the small details because whites are blown out. The first shot with the glass on the table is a good example.
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post #147 of 179 Old 03-25-2012, 05:07 AM - Thread Starter
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iTunes 720p .m4v: 4242kbps AVC
iTunes 1080p .m4v: 5423kbps AVC
Netflix on PS3
Zune: 3.3 GB / 45:30 = 9.67Mbps total with 5.1 audio
3 Blu-ray shots from review sites












This isn't any fun when none of them are pleasing to look at.
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post #148 of 179 Old 03-25-2012, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

This isn't any fun when none of them are pleasing to look at.

You got that right .

The 1080p iTunes version has the lowest contrast and washes a lot of the grain away, along with some other fine details.

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post #149 of 179 Old 04-05-2012, 07:58 PM
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Google Play streaming anyone?
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post #150 of 179 Old 04-08-2012, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't know about the US Google Play, but the store I see doesn't indicate what's in HD and one of the movies I looked at had a comment saying it was "VHS quality".
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