The future of Blu-ray? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 70 Old 01-25-2012, 04:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post

Do you know of any other delivery method (broadcast, cable, IPTV, satellite, etc.) that uses more than 8 bit color?

Are you just trying to stir the pot and cast a negative light on Blu-ray? I believe that you know 8 bit color is part of the Blu-ray spec therefore it is not going to be changed. Greater color depth may come with the next format (4K?) that may or may not happen anytime soon.

You missed the point.

People here are talking about changing the BD specs to allow 48 or 60 FPS at 1080P because a few movies will be shot in higher frame rates yet every single movie made, be it 35mm film or digital, is shot at greater than 8bit color. HDMI 1.3 and 1.4 already can handle Deep Color (10bit color or higher)
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post #62 of 70 Old 01-25-2012, 04:44 PM
 
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As far as having more than 2 layers for a BD encoded with 4K content, it doesn't seem to be necessary:

High Efficiency Video Coding

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High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC) also known as H.265 is a draft video compression standard, a successor to H.264/MPEG-4 AVC (Advanced Video Coding), currently under joint development by the ISO/IEC Moving Picture Experts Group (MPEG) and ITU-T Video Coding Experts Group (VCEG).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Ef...y_Video_Coding

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Certain ten megapixel video requires truly higher bandwidth, but with advanced H264 encoding, a 10 megapixel 4K2K video can match in 50mbit/s, and 50mbit/s can be delivered over Fiberoptical Net connections and almost certainly that you would be ready to match a 4K2K stream on a Blu-ray disc which has a 48mbit/s bandwidth restrict. At that bitrate, a 2 hour 4K2K film could fit on about 43GB, so it can perfectly effectively fit on a dual-layer 50GB Blu-ray disc.

http://entertainmentprojector.info/s...deo-bandwidth/
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post #63 of 70 Old 01-25-2012, 04:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

I personally prefer the use of (maybe) 16 bit 4:4:4 colour over higher res.

I strongly doubt that Hollywood would ever give consumers pro level video. The best we could hope for would be 10bit color - IMO.
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post #64 of 70 Old 01-25-2012, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

As far as having more than 2 layers for a BD encoded with 4K content, it doesn't seem to be necessary:

But it is necessary - especially for >=2 hours of video at 4K at 48 for 60 fps or more at high quality
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The best we could hope for would be 10bit color - IMO

I think 10 bit per channel would be all we would need (1024 values per channel instead of 256 now - or less since they calibrate black to 16 instead of 0 etc), unless there was a lot of video processing added to it.
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post #65 of 70 Old 01-25-2012, 05:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

But it is necessary - especially for >=2 hours of video at 4K at 48 for 60 fps or more at high quality

IMO, you are not going to see 48 or 60 FPS (be it 2K, 4K or 3D) for quite some time on BD.

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I think 10 bit per channel would be all we would need (1024 values per channel instead of 256 now), unless there was a lot of video processing added to it.

Yes - it would be a great improvement in the Gray Scale. But I have strong doubts that the new 4K BD will use anything higher than 8bit. IMO, all they are going to do is increase the Luma signal to 4K and leave the Chroma at 8bit.
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post #66 of 70 Old 01-25-2012, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

IMO, you are not going to see 48 or 60 FPS (be it 2K, 4K or 3D) for quite some time on BD.

We already have 60 fps in 3D on BD at 720p.
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post #67 of 70 Old 01-25-2012, 05:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

We already have 60 fps in 3D on BD at 720p.

Sorry - meant to say 48 or 60 FPS at 1080P or 2160P
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post #68 of 70 Old 01-25-2012, 10:40 PM
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I just want unadulterated film transfers from H.D. sources. Is that so much to ask? I mean fix what you must to stay true to the original look of the film if the print is heavily damaged but still, it sounds like less work to not apply D.R.M. and would greatly serve the medium's purported purpose. If people loved the look of the film on 400" screens, I think we can handle a little grain on 40" screens. Even if they can't, I'm sure there's some way that it can be smoothed out by hardware on the consumer side of things, rather than ruining the source media for all of is. I mean, has anybody ever heard of photoshop filters?

Also, what's with the SD upscales? I mean, I don't mind SD content on blu-ray, saves on a great number of discs and maybe hey, we could have some uncompressed content free of detail fuzzing artifacts for once. However don't upscale it and try to pass it off as high def, that's just unnecessary and dishonest. Hopefully with Dragonball 1.1 and 1.2, Funimation gets pushed in the right direction, although I'm on fence since I don't particularly like the show and they'd used a feather's touch of D.R.N.

However the market keeps going on as it has been, I'm not going to buy very many titles, except maybe a few of the subtitled imports from japan (The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya and Studio Ghibili's collection of all region films). They have higher standards. (So wish I could speak japanese, which would chinch a Cardcaptor Sakura purchase for me. I hear CLAMP went so far as to go back to the original animation cels and redraw what was missing from the lot.)

As it is though, I'm primarily stickin' it out with The Godfather as one of the few releases i've cared to have and that's just sad as without the high fidelity and collector's market, bluray doesn't have a market. Most prospective customers will take convenience and price over quality every time. That's why the Gameboy line always thwarted its competitors and that's why L.D. never overtook D.V.D. They have the choice between cheap instant gratification and a time consuming wait for good material they have to actually get up off of the couch, grab from the mailbox and put into the disc player. Even Netflix who made their name off of that, realizes that the days when people had the patience for that are soon to be over in light of the alternative, so they've been tryin' to lay' off the discs. We could stay at 480 forever for all the typical consumer cares...

I'd like bluray to win, as I actually like effectively owning a copy I have right to transfer, rather than being lent one to watch but I seem to be alone on that front...
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post #69 of 70 Old 01-25-2012, 10:53 PM
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Tonepoet,

It doesn't sound like you're as much a fan of older films ("Godfather" excepted) as I am. If you were, you'd appreciate as much as I do the ton of great old films now on Blu-ray that look appreciably better than their DVD counterparts. Two films just released: "To Kill a Mockingbird" and Hitchcock's "Rebecca."

As far as wanting studios just to transfer movies to BD in as unadulterated a state as possible, well, that's the wish of most of us. But many (if not most) older films need some cleaning up--scratches, specks, fades, etc. Still, that doesn't account for the heavy filtering some video engineers apply. Not, at least, until you understand their side of the argument. Studios are in business to make money, not to satisfy all videophiles. Studios recognize that probably a majority of viewers are used to HD television, filmed digitally with almost zero grain. These viewers cannot understand why older films on Blu-ray have grain, and they complain to the studios mightily about it. They mistakenly figure that older movies on BD should look like super-clean TV programs. So studios have to compromise and often overdo it, applying too much DNR, softening detail and flattening the picture in the process. Without doing complete, frame-by-frame restorations, which are cost prohibitive, the studios can't win, and we can't win. So, most of us live with the compromises, which are still better than the DVD alternatives.

John
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post #70 of 70 Old 01-26-2012, 04:03 PM
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New faster and more effective compression algorithms developed.
Could be crucial for higher resolution/higher framerate home media delivery.

excerpts;
Quote:



For a large range of practically useful cases, MIT researchers find a way to increase the speed of one of the most important algorithms in the information sciences.

The Fourier transform is one of the most fundamental concepts in the information sciences. It's a method for representing an irregular signal as a combination of pure frequencies. It's universal in signal processing, but it can also be used to compress image and audio files, solve differential equations and price stock options, among other things.

Fast Fourier transform (FFT), devised in the mid-1960s, which made it practical to calculate Fourier transforms on the fly. Ever since the FFT was proposed, however, people have wondered whether an even faster algorithm could be found.

At the Symposium on Discrete Algorithms (SODA) this week, a group of MIT researchers will present a new algorithm that, in a large range of practically important cases, improves on the fast Fourier transform. Under some circumstances, the improvement can be dramatic a tenfold increase in speed.


An eight-by-eight block of pixels can be thought of as a 64-sample signal, and thus as the sum of 64 different frequencies. But as the researchers point out in their new paper, empirical studies show that on average, 57 of those frequencies can be discarded with minimal loss of image quality.

The new algorithm relies on two key ideas. The first is to divide a signal into narrower slices of bandwidth, sized so that a slice will generally contain only one frequency with a heavy weight.

Much more detailed at the link; http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/f...orms-0118.html

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