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post #1 of 70 Old 09-12-2011, 05:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I think Blu-ray has kind of stagnated. Rather than release old films with a new transfer they just re-release an old HD transfer, maybe add some DNR and/or edge enhancement, and call it a day.
We have sources that look like this:

And final encodes that looks like this:

Did anyone actually watch the restoration feature for Baraka? They claim to be scanning the negative but it appears the film scanner is handling a positive print.

Doesn't look like negative to me. Personally, I think they just don't care about quality. We need better bit rates (lossless?), better color resolution (4:2:2 is good, 4:4:4 is better), and better quality control.
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post #2 of 70 Old 09-12-2011, 05:41 AM
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Well some studios companies are doing blu-ray right like Sony and for the most part now Fox is and even Warner is beginning to do better. But there are companies like Universal that obviously don't take Blu-ray seriously.
As for the technical side 4:4:4 isn't as important as say 10bit encoding which really would have been an asset. It doesn't matter if you are outputting 8 bit even as long as you have 10bit encoding it reduces banding and adds compression efficiency there are just to little gradients in 8bit per channel and internal math can be done more precise with 10bit i.e. less rounding. If we had that and the studios used the full maximum bitrate for current blu-ray it could handle everything gracefully.
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post #3 of 70 Old 09-12-2011, 06:03 AM
 
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Sony is already talking about 4k in 2012 and they are looking at compression now.
So higher def DNR then.
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post #4 of 70 Old 09-12-2011, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post
Sony is already talking about 4k in 2012 and they are looking at compression now.
So higher def DNR then.
Well not from Sony they are perfect pretty much
If every studio was doing like Sony we wouldn't have anything to complain about.
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post #5 of 70 Old 09-12-2011, 06:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sub24ox7

Well not from Sony they are perfect pretty much
If every studio was doing like Sony we wouldn't have anything to complain about.
I was not lumping Sony in but they are turning into the minority
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post #6 of 70 Old 09-12-2011, 06:34 AM
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Hate to say but we may have a good analogy for video's future: Audio.
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post #7 of 70 Old 09-12-2011, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

Sony is already talking about 4k in 2012 and they are looking at compression now.
So higher def DNR then.

You mean Blu-ray or something like it will play back 4K in 2012? Or do you just mean projectors/TVs and upscaling?
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post #8 of 70 Old 09-12-2011, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

You mean Blu-ray or something like it will play back 4K in 2012? Or do you just mean projectors/TVs and upscaling?

Nether, it is just a rumor of a draft proposal to the BDA.

Quote:


....Sony reps claim the company is in talks with the Blu-ray Disc Association to iron out a standard compression scheme for squeezing 4K movies onto discs...Sony won’t yet talk timelimes on when 4K movies could hit shelves....

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post #9 of 70 Old 09-12-2011, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post

Nether, it is just a rumor of a draft proposal to the BDA.

Nothing new. The consortium behind the DVD disc did the same thing. The BDA probably can create some sort of hybrid disc using one of the higher capacity discs that the BDA promised long ago.

While cool, I don't think the average consumer has a viewing distance to screen size ratio small enough to require 4k. I've got a 100-in screen and I view from roughly 10 ft and even that is well above the average setup. While DVD looks terrible at that size, I have not really been disappointed with a well done BD. Which to me means the issue with how good BD looks has more to do with the quality of the transfer and the mastering. Throwing more pixels at a starved data stream is not going to produce a significant step up in quality. 1080p is more than enough for a vast majority of users out there. The real drive behind 4k has more to do with marketing than the current system being incapable for the home environment.

It wouldn't surprise me to see them introduce some new format designated with a Blu-ray logo.

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post #10 of 70 Old 09-12-2011, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumawo13 View Post

I think Blu-ray has kind of stagnated. Rather than release old films with a new transfer they just re-release an old HD transfer, maybe add some DNR and/or edge enhancement, and call it a day.
We have sources that look like this:

And final encodes that looks like this:

Did anyone actually watch the restoration feature for Baraka? They claim to be scanning the negative but it appears the film scanner is handling a positive print.

Doesn't look like negative to me. Personally, I think they just don't care about quality. We need better bit rates (lossless?), better color resolution (4:2:2 is good, 4:4:4 is better), and better quality control.

The key problem is that money has dried up for most catalog releases and many people opted not to replace catalog titles they had on DVD with a BD due to the reason you stated above. I think Hollywood envisioned HD as an easy way to gouge consumers, but most of their key consumers opted not to spend 2x over a DVD release. And we are in the worst economic climate since the great depression so fewer people are spending money on luxury items.

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post #11 of 70 Old 09-12-2011, 01:28 PM
 
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post #12 of 70 Old 09-12-2011, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sub24ox7 View Post

Well not from Sony they are perfect pretty much
If every studio was doing like Sony we wouldn't have anything to complain about.

Of course there is to complain about for some, in this case Cinavia.

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post #13 of 70 Old 09-13-2011, 09:23 AM
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You ask if Blu-ray has "kind of stagnated" in a month that sees brand-new restored editions of "Citizen Kane," "Ben-Hur," and "Star Wars" released?

John
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post #14 of 70 Old 09-13-2011, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Still waiting for:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/02/n...blu-ray-discs/

Already used by BDXL.
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post #15 of 70 Old 09-14-2011, 03:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

1080p is more than enough for a vast majority of users out there. The real drive behind 4k has more to do with marketing than the current system being incapable for the home environment

Personally I think 1080p is sufficient. Rather, we should be making steps towards larger capacity discs that handle higher bit-rates and maybe one day a format that is capable of 10-bit 4:4:4. I like the idea of full resolution chroma because it prevents all the problems I see with screenshots on the Internet that do not do proper chroma up-sampling (Not all renderers handle it properly), and the fact that from my tests with x264, it's not that much more data when compressed due to the nature of YCbCr color encoding. 10-bit is also nice but I'm afraid without true 10-bit displays the effect will be lost on most (My own display isn't even truly 8-bit, but rather a 6-bit dithering TN panel).
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post #16 of 70 Old 09-14-2011, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

Nothing new. The consortium behind the DVD disc did the same thing. The BDA probably can create some sort of hybrid disc using one of the higher capacity discs that the BDA promised long ago.

While cool, I don't think the average consumer has a viewing distance to screen size ratio small enough to require 4k. I've got a 100-in screen and I view from roughly 10 ft and even that is well above the average setup. While DVD looks terrible at that size, I have not really been disappointed with a well done BD. Which to me means the issue with how good BD looks has more to do with the quality of the transfer and the mastering. Throwing more pixels at a starved data stream is not going to produce a significant step up in quality. 1080p is more than enough for a vast majority of users out there. The real drive behind 4k has more to do with marketing than the current system being incapable for the home environment.

It wouldn't surprise me to see them introduce some new format designated with a Blu-ray logo.

The real drive behind 4k HD is not marketing. There is a real need. Passive 3d is the better 3d. Problem is you need 4k screens and 4k resolution to so passive 3d at 1080p. This requires more space and fast.
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post #17 of 70 Old 09-14-2011, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

The real drive behind 4k HD is not marketing. There is a real need. Passive 3d is the better 3d. Problem is you need 4k screens and 4k resolution to so passive 3d at 1080p. This requires more space and fast.

Isn't 4k 3D TVs to try to get glasses free 3d with a high enough resolution per viewpoint - which will be less than 1080p per view anyway? Won't polarized glasses 3D just need twice the pixels for 1080p and not 4 times the pixels?

I don't think 4K is sufficient.
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post #18 of 70 Old 09-14-2011, 12:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by signal2noise View Post

Already used by BDXL.

BDXL is not a ROM format. You aren't going to see replicated movies on it.
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post #19 of 70 Old 09-14-2011, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

BDXL is not a ROM format. You aren't going to see replicated movies on it.

Correct, and the first implementation is in BDXL, as described in the paper. Over the years, manufacturers have mused about increasing ROM capacity to as high as 500GB through various means.
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post #20 of 70 Old 09-17-2011, 03:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by signal2noise View Post

Correct, and the first implementation is in BDXL, as described in the paper. Over the years, manufacturers have mused about increasing ROM capacity to as high as 500GB through various means.

Sure - they have shown numerous lab developed multilayer optical discs with large storage, but not a one has been put into production.
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post #21 of 70 Old 09-19-2011, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post
Sure - they have shown numerous lab developed multilayer optical discs with large storage, but not a one has been put into production.
As I said, "mused."
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post #22 of 70 Old 10-17-2011, 02:28 AM
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I too am thinking about the future of Blu Ray. I am concern about the competition between Online Streaming versus Blu Ray, and would like to hear other opinions. Specifically does anyone think the disc delivery system is dead? Is it possible for two formats to coexist or can there only be one?

I like both formats for different reasons. I use streaming for rental purposes and eliminate blind buys. I use Blu Ray for titles I know I will watch more than once. I am not the average setup since my image output is 120 screen. I think the image quality for streaming is good but IMO Blu Ray is better. Since CEDIA's talk of the town this year was 4K resolution. I can only wonder how this format could even be available for streaming. The file size for this format must be huge no matter what the compression is.
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post #23 of 70 Old 10-17-2011, 06:47 AM
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As long as there is still people out there buying discs, Blu-Ray will probably still be around for 10 more years or so, at least I HOPE so

And even if Blu-Ray would become a niche format again, laserdisc style, that´s fine with me.
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post #24 of 70 Old 10-25-2011, 01:23 AM
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There is still a ton of content out there which has yet to be released on Blu-ray. I'd say it's got a lot of life left in it. Not every possible film/TV show which was shot in HD has yet to be released.

I would love to see some 4K content, but I don't have a huge screen to show all the details (46" currently). For me, I believe 1080p is the sweet spot. 4K would be nice to see, but only on a special film.
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post #25 of 70 Old 10-27-2011, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C!t!zen View Post

I too am thinking about the future of Blu Ray. I am concern about the competition between Online Streaming versus Blu Ray, and would like to hear other opinions. Specifically does anyone think the disc delivery system is dead? Is it possible for two formats to coexist or can there only be one?

I like both formats for different reasons. I use streaming for rental purposes and eliminate blind buys. I use Blu Ray for titles I know I will watch more than once. I am not the average setup since my image output is 120 screen. I think the image quality for streaming is good but IMO Blu Ray is better. Since CEDIA's talk of the town this year was 4K resolution. I can only wonder how this format could even be available for streaming. The file size for this format must be huge no matter what the compression is.

As for me, I am not a fan of watching movies more than once, aside from movies that I really, really, like. Because of this, I rent movies instead of purchasing them. I rent Blu Ray much more than streaming movies not so much because of the (not very obvious) quality difference but because of the high price tag of Vudu HDX and Zune 1080p. I mean, if it costs $6.00 to rent a movie on each of those services, then I'd much rather pay only $1.60 to rent a BD from Redbox. As for cheaper alternatives like Netflix, they just don't have the (newer blockbuster) movies that I want, and most of their movies aren't very good quality at all. If I wanted to purchase a movie, Blu Ray costs around $20, which is about the same price as Vudu HDX/Zune 1080p, but if you're gonna spend that much money for a movie and keep it, wouldn't you rather just take the Blu Ray for the BEST quality?
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post #26 of 70 Old 11-19-2011, 10:50 AM
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I always try to opt for the Blu Ray- but streaming from Apple is sometimes tempting. I missed Capt America in the theaters. The Blu ray was 19.99 and the HD rent from Apple was 4.99. I decided this film could be a rental- but I first checked the quality by viewing the trailer from Apple. It was disgusting. The image was not sharp. It looked murky and had dancing artifacts in the shadows.
I notice Amazon now has it for 15.99. I assume it will be 12.99 soon enough and I will pick it up. I will then re-sell if need be for some $$ back.
I'd rather pay an extra $10 for top quality.

Streaming is always tempting- but quality stinks.
I'll admit for some reason Netflix does look better than Apple (which blows my mind- why can't apple get it right?

But honestly- I really wish streaming didn't exist.
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post #27 of 70 Old 11-19-2011, 10:56 AM
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BD is likely the last of the physical formats .. consumers are willing to accept mediocrity and streaming convienience over quality .. we are the minority ..

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post #28 of 70 Old 01-03-2012, 10:05 AM
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Anyone feel blu-ray still might be slightly overrated? It seems blu-ray players are hit and miss, even over 5 yrs later. DVD didn't take this long to take off. When you bought a DVD player, you didn't have to worry about firmware updates and whether you were going to get an acceptable picture. Maybe its possible I'm spoiled by the superb image quality and upscaling abilities of media players now days for my dvd playback means.
Just bought my first blu-ray player a couple of weeks ago and have already returned it; I was not all that impressed..
Again.. I think my WD Live SMP is spoiling me with its dvd playback.. Hopefully I'm wrong
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post #29 of 70 Old 01-03-2012, 10:18 AM
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You obviously were not around in the early days of DVD. There were firmware updates then too. They were fewer because BD-Java wasn't used then but they did exist. I remember them well and they were a whole lot more complicated to apply, with many players requiring a trip to your dealer or the manufacturer for the upgrade. Plus many of the early updates caused more problems than they solved.

Blu-Ray has been growing very quickly for the last year or so too.

Even with the best upscaling, Blu-Ray is still obviously better (provided the source materials and transfer were decent) than DVD on any display above 40" or so unless you sit very far away or there is something wrong with your display's setup or performance.

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post #30 of 70 Old 01-03-2012, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLBENEDICT View Post

Anyone feel blu-ray still might be slightly overrated?

No, although some are better than others ..

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