Rant: Junk, old releases... and the death of BluRay - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 10-03-2012, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I haven't been very active lately on here recently, so I'm sorry that I chime in with my first thread in a while on something negative.

This post is nothing to do with any past issues, or format war feelings, but a very real threat to the format as it exists in the market today.

[RANT]
SO... what is WITH the studios and their Bluray releases lately?

I used to follow the weekly release schedules avidly, waiting for the next big picture to drop to disk, so I could load it up and fire away at home.

But nowadays, it just seems a total waste of time.

The release schedules are FILLED with back-catalog releases flooding to Bluray, but the real hot releases seem to take LONGER AND LONGER to make it onto disk!!!

Nowadays, if I want to check out a REASONABLY RECENT film, I'm better off checking into my local Hilton Garden Suites or other cheap hotel so that I can see the movies... on a crappy 27 inch TV with tinny speakers.

It's pretty obvious that the studios have widened the release windows lately, to accomodate showing them in hotels and pay-per-view a FULL TWO MONTHS before they are released to Bluray or DVD

I think it is JUST FABULOUS that the studios are getting $20 a pop for these viewings in hotels, but FRANKLY it JUST SUCKS!

There is now NO POINT in having my Bluray player at all - YES, it's nicer to see these movies in their full glory, at Bluray bit-rates, but they are just too freaking old by the time they make it out to Bluray, and its a total waste of time for me to wait that long.

So the studios have chosen on-demand and PPV as their primary outlets, despite the lower quality, and DVD and Bluray are the bucket dump formats, destined for those who are determined to fill their homes with catalog releases.

Welcome to the death of Bluray....

Yes, I know that some of you will react very badly to an assertion like that, but its pretty obvious that that is what it is coming to.

It is now taking 4 to 7 months for a hot release to make it out onto Bluray fromt the theatrical release date.

THATS RIDICLUOUS

So why should I buy the Bluray (or DVD, for that matter) version of a movie that is already 6 months old??? I can watch it on Apple TV or one of the other on demand services - and in fact it will be available before the DVD/Bluray release

It USED TO BE that you'd grab the DVD version, because it was the first chance you got to see the movie, then it would show up on cable, or television later.

YOu didn't MIND getting stuck with the disc as a souvenir, in return for seeing the movie sooner.

BUt that has ALL CHanged...

THe SECOND that a decent quality delivery format is available, that releases before bluray, I'm on it...

YEs, I will keep my Bluray library and player, just like I've kept my HDDVD library and player

But the format is Dead Man Walking right now

And that is something I am very VERY upset and annoyed about....

WHY THE HELL should I be able to stay in a cheap motel and see a NEW RELEASE 2 to 3 months before I can buy the disc???

And how long do you think it will take for the ON-Demand release date to be matched by an at home on demand service - BECAUSE IT REALLY SHOULD BE, and I assure you, it will be

[/RANT]

OK, try to turn the flamethrowers to LOW while discussing this....

Over to you all..

Ahh... F1 in full HD 3D with
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post #2 of 30 Old 10-03-2012, 03:18 PM
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"When" I see a film makes little difference to me. AV quality makes all the difference. I have not seen The Avengers yet. I want to, but if the first time I see it is 5 years from now, no big deal. If I see it tomorrow on some crappy quality stream or download, then that's a big deal. It'll feel like a huge waste of money.

Long live Blu-ray.
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post #3 of 30 Old 10-03-2012, 03:23 PM
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I don't think its how long a 2012 title takes too get too Blu.
I think its the 'just release everything w/any old transfer' & see what sticks release schedule.
Watering Blu down too the lowest common denominator.
We'll wait for "LoA" (if impatiently, ha, ha!!) for a GREAT release on the lines of 'Ben Hur'.

I think people that want a title too be released NEVER think its soon enough.

"I wonder if any of the releases had slipcovers though."
"Are these comfirmed to have slipcovers?"
"They look nice in those slips."
"This slipcover looks too good to pass up."
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post #4 of 30 Old 10-03-2012, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Can we just imagine what it would be like if music were released like this?

By the time the CD version was available, the internet would be filled with reams of rips

And I'm one of the minority of people who still buy the CDs because I want to listen to the lossless version, not the crummy compressed releases on iTunes

But if I had to wait that long to buy the song on CD, it would no longer be relevant

We all know that this is completely about the profitability of pay-per-view and on-demand showings being better, DVD and Bluray are getting the shaft

Yes, I still want to watch the best version too, but there are FEW OTHER friends who are going to watch it with me because most of them have already downloaded a rip from the internet by the time the disc is released

And no, it's not my breath.. wink.gif

Ahh... F1 in full HD 3D with
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post #5 of 30 Old 10-03-2012, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG ED View Post

I don't think its how long a 2012 title takes too get too Blu.
I think its the 'just release everything w/any old transfer' & see what sticks release schedule.
Watering Blu down too the lowest common denominator.
We'll wait for "LoA" (if impatiently, ha, ha!!) for a GREAT release on the lines of 'Ben Hur'.
I think people that want a title too be released NEVER think its soon enough.

trust me, there will very shortly be a 1080p on demand delivery platform that releases before the disc date

at that point DVD and Bluray will be nostalgia - because 80% of those willing to pay will be on it

and then the disc formats will just become a pain in the *ss to studios

and that annoys me, believe me, because I prefer Bluray to download

but I cant ignore it any more...

Ahh... F1 in full HD 3D with
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post #6 of 30 Old 10-03-2012, 03:29 PM
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Yeah- I haven't seen Avengers yet either. Going to the movies here in NYC is a joke- (talkers, seat kickers, constant cell phone use, sneezes, coughs, weird odors, etc)
I gladly wait not only for the films I want to see- but many TV series as well.
Were you around in the early 90's? We use to wait at least a year before a film was released on VHS for rental.

As i write this Avengers sits on my shelve- I know it's there- I'll get to it.
And when I do I'll have the whole couch to myself.
Alone- just me and the movie. (and a cold beer)
it will be glorious.
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post #7 of 30 Old 10-03-2012, 03:33 PM
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Funny, I was thinking just the opposite recently.

First, I can barely keep up with all the Blu-Rays I want to watch - just bought the Bond and the Universal Monsters collections, gawd knows how long those would take me to get through.

But when Avengers and Cabin In the Woods hit the stores recently and seeing Prometheus about to be released on Blu-Ray, my reaction is more like "already...on Blu? Cool."

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post #8 of 30 Old 10-03-2012, 04:07 PM
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I find this thread very puzzling. If anything, the window is shrinking. A big title like Prometheus was announced for Blu-ray before it even opened in theaters. Many movies have a 90-day turnaroud now. Theater owners are furious about this.

Fine, Avengers took 5 months. It was a huge tentpole movie that the studio knew would have legs throughout the summer. Did you really expect them to dump it on Blu-ray while it could still be raking in theatrical revenue? That's not how these things have ever worked.

I don't get the complaint.

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post #9 of 30 Old 10-03-2012, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

I find this thread very puzzling. If anything, the window is shrinking. A big title like Prometheus was announced for Blu-ray before it even opened in theaters. Many movies have a 90-day turnaroud now. Theater owners are furious about this.
Fine, Avengers took 5 months. It was a huge tentpole movie that the studio knew would have legs throughout the summer. Did you really expect them to dump it on Blu-ray while it could still be raking in theatrical revenue? That's not how these things have ever worked.
I don't get the complaint.

I agree. For the most part, the window for a major studio theatrical release and it's later home video release is pretty much between 3 - 5 months which has been typical for over a decade now. It's pretty much become established by major studios that they really focus the big video and music releases for the 4th quarter centered around the peak holiday sales period. Early Summer films almost always don't get a home video release until mid-September through late November depending on how well it did at the box office. If it's a flop in theaters (like this years examples Dark Shadows or Total Recall), that window is normally going to be under 90 days.

The window for pay-per-view recent theatrical releases such as what you get at a hotel has always been much shorter than a physical home video release for major titles. The biggest issue with that whole thing is with the advent of HD and HDTV, more often than not the quality and often the aspect ratio is all ferkockta - I caught The Avengers on PPV while staying at a nice resort a couple months ago and the quality was abysmal, not to mention the picture was pan n scanned cropped to full frame *and* stretched to fit 16:9 (really, wtf?).... for a mere $15 (which I got a refund after complaining)!

I for one am glad more (obscure) catalog releases are making it to Blu-ray these days although there's still a ways to go before the format hits the kind of stride catalog titles were pouring out every month at the height of the dvd format. And because of today's economy, that's not likely to happen again before the Blu-ray format becomes obsolete.
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post #10 of 30 Old 10-03-2012, 06:32 PM
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Funny how people look at things.

I look at the Blu-ray market and think to myself, "Why does anybody want to buy a film that was just in the theater". If I could walk into a theater and see it on the big screen a few weeks ago, why do I want to shell out money for it now?

It makes no sense, for me, to buy a movie on home video today when it's still fresh in my mind from a trip to the multi-plex. And, when it is released, it will be overpriced for several months. The whole logic of buying the latest blockbuster on Blu-ray eludes me. $29.95 to buy a disc of movie that was just playing at the mall? Yeah, there's a smart purchase.

Thank goodness for back catalogue and what a great year catalogue is having on Blu-ray. This week, I've received Jean Cocteau's 1946 BEAUTY AND THE BEAST...now that makes sense to have in my collection; a rare film that I've never had the opportunity to see on the big screen. I also got WALKABOUT from 1971; a movie I love but is rarely seen. It makes sense to get that on Blu-ray since there's no real opportunity to see it otherwise. I have the Universal Classic Monsters coming from the UK; about $50.00 for eight classic films...that makes sense. The shipment also include PARANOIAC from 1963; a film I've never seen and will never get the chance to see on the big screen.

Do I need to spend big money collecting the latest explosion filled blockbuster or teen vampire flick? Nope. They'll eventually be sold to the TV market and they'll be on the tube every day for the rest of my life. If that's what the Blu-ray had become, I wouldn't bother it. METROPOLIS, FRANKENSTEIN, BYE BYE BIRDIE, HIGH TIME, COVER GIRL, BLACK SUNDAY, HIGH NOON...these are the movies I need to own on Blu-ray.
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post #11 of 30 Old 10-03-2012, 10:29 PM
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This is such an odd thread... How is this any different from what we have had for the past decade? I have so many movies to watch on Blu-Ray that I put my Netflix account on hold. There have been so many great catalog releases lately, I am not sure what this rant is really about....
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post #12 of 30 Old 10-03-2012, 10:56 PM
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I think if you are someone who doesn't go to the cinema, for whatever reason, and appreciates quality, the thread makes some sense.

At present, Bluray has the potential to offer the best home video quality, so it is unfortunate that release times are still so long.

I too fear Bluray falling into relative obscurity as the masses do with that format and streaming what they did with CD->MP3.

I have also noticed the quality of releases deteriorating, with the studios taking less care in getting it right and simply just getting it out the door, or imposing flavour of the decade biases which are then baked in and can't be easily removed.

However, I do not agree with the catalogue versus blockbuster issue raised: I would like to see both released in the best possible quality with the greatest care taken and in a reasonable timeframe.
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post #13 of 30 Old 10-04-2012, 07:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

At present, Bluray has the potential to offer the best home video quality, so it is unfortunate that release times are still so long.

What potential? HDM has offered the best home video PQ and AQ since 2006. Release windows have nothing to do with that and everything to do with maxamizing a film's ROI.
Quote:
I too fear Bluray falling into relative obscurity as the masses do with that format and streaming what they did with CD->MP3.

The masses care about content, not the quality of the content. Would it surprise you to learn the overwhelming majority of consumers use only the speakers in their TV?
Quote:
I have also noticed the quality of releases deteriorating, with the studios taking less care in getting it right and simply just getting it out the door, or imposing flavour of the decade biases which are then baked in and can't be easily removed.
However, I do not agree with the catalogue versus blockbuster issue raised: I would like to see both released in the best possible quality with the greatest care taken and in a reasonable timeframe.

What you want isn't possible for all releases - I am addressing catalog titles. The cost to restore some films runs into millions of dollars. The studios do that for their AAA catalog titles. For their A and B titles - a quick cleanup and out the door it goes.
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post #14 of 30 Old 10-04-2012, 07:45 AM
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When blu-ray dies(I guess in the immediate future confused.gif), it should be fun streaming 4K content.

2014
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post #15 of 30 Old 10-04-2012, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

When blu-ray dies(I guess in the immediate future confused.gif), it should be fun streaming 4K content.

You guys do realize the the majority of home video revenue comes from optical discs (DVD/BD) not streaming, right? Look at CD. It is 30 years old. Every year we are told it is going to die, and yet it still generates more revenue than digital sales. And there are no plans to kill CD.

There is a lot left in the tank for packaged media and optical disc for home video. I cannot imagine a scenario where it is killed off in less than 7-10 years and most likely will be around even longer.
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post #16 of 30 Old 10-04-2012, 08:37 AM
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The only thing that surprises me is the the level of desperation that some people have to be the first to declare the format dead. As for whining about 'old' releases, face it, that's where the majority of good movies are. I've said it before, we need to have a forum section called "Blu-Ray is dead because I say so!" and throw this post on the pile.


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post #17 of 30 Old 10-04-2012, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

I find this thread very puzzling. If anything, the window is shrinking. A big title like Prometheus was announced for Blu-ray before it even opened in theaters. Many movies have a 90-day turnaroud now. Theater owners are furious about this.
Fine, Avengers took 5 months. It was a huge tentpole movie that the studio knew would have legs throughout the summer. Did you really expect them to dump it on Blu-ray while it could still be raking in theatrical revenue? That's not how these things have ever worked.
I don't get the complaint.

Just consider the source and then it should be quite obvious. wink.gif
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post #18 of 30 Old 10-04-2012, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

YES, it's nicer to see these movies in their full glory, at Bluray bit-rates, but they are just too freaking old by the time they make it out to Bluray, and its a total waste of time for me to wait that long.

I didn't realize movies had an expiration date.
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post #19 of 30 Old 10-04-2012, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Odys View Post

I didn't realize movies had an expiration date.

They don't. It's just someone coming out of hibernation squeezing the last of the bitter grapes.
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post #20 of 30 Old 10-04-2012, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Dex Robinson View Post

Funny how people look at things.
I look at the Blu-ray market and think to myself, "Why does anybody want to buy a film that was just in the theater". If I could walk into a theater and see it on the big screen a few weeks ago, why do I want to shell out money for it now?
It makes no sense, for me, to buy a movie on home video today when it's still fresh in my mind from a trip to the multi-plex. And, when it is released, it will be overpriced for several months. The whole logic of buying the latest blockbuster on Blu-ray eludes me. $29.95 to buy a disc of movie that was just playing at the mall? Yeah, there's a smart purchase.


Please read my post above.
I stopped going to the cinema a few years ago.
Living in NYC- the theaters are crowded with super rude people.
The last time i was in a packed NYC movie theater I got a wet sneeze sprayed all over the back of my neck.
It also costs close to $15 per ticket.
No thanks.

So for a tad bit more I watch at home. I pay $19 for most titles. If it's not under $20- I wait for a sale.
If the film turns out to have no re-watch potential- I sell it back for about 60% of cost.

and I keep my sanity in check.
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post #21 of 30 Old 10-04-2012, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

THATS RIDICLUOUS
Ah, that's what's missing...
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post #22 of 30 Old 10-04-2012, 05:08 PM
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Don't understand this thread at all. Release windows aren't getting longer. All the catalog releases this year have been great. 2012 has been a great year for Blu-Ray. The format is just starting to hit its stride.

Sounds like someone just wants to complain for the sake of complaining.

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post #23 of 30 Old 10-04-2012, 05:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

Don't understand this thread at all. Release windows aren't getting longer. All the catalog releases this year have been great. 2012 has been a great year for Blu-Ray. The format is just starting to hit its stride.
Sounds like someone just wants to complain for the sake of complaining.

Blu-ray comparison to last year after week 38

YoY revenue:
2012: 8.8%
2011: 20.2%
change: -11.4%


Box office power:
2012: 5.1%
2011: -9.5%
change: 14.6%


Market share:
2012: 24.1%
2011: 20.8%
change: 3.3%
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post #24 of 30 Old 10-04-2012, 06:40 PM
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Things must be slow at HDF, so a few ^^ are trying to bring the smackdown nonsense over here.
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post #25 of 30 Old 10-04-2012, 08:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by badboi View Post

Things must be slow at HDF, so a few ^^ are trying to bring the smackdown nonsense over here.

No slower than over at Bluray.com. But at least we look at the facts of the matter instead of some blind loyalty to a declining format.
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post #26 of 30 Old 10-05-2012, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

No slower than over at Bluray.com. But at least we look at the facts of the matter instead of some blind loyalty to a declining format.

At least most of us are able to post and join in there if we decide to. smile.gif

As far as loyalty to a declining format, do you have any other suggestions at this point? Seems to me Blu ray is the only option on offer right now, unless we pledge our blind loyalty to a failed/dead format.
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Originally Posted by badboi View Post

At least most of us are able to post and join in there if we decide to. smile.gif
As far as loyalty to a declining format, do you have any other suggestions at this point? Seems to me Blu ray is the only option on offer right now, unless we pledge our blind loyalty to a failed/dead format.

LMAO! Years after the format war is over and you STILL can't let it go.

Hey - I like BD. Best PQ and AQ available. But I sure don't defend it's poor performance as a format as you constantly do.
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post #28 of 30 Old 10-05-2012, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by badboi View Post

Things must be slow at HDF, so a few ^^ are trying to bring the smackdown nonsense over here.

Well the only people left that really post there are anti-Blu-Ray so I suspect you will see more of the arguments being brought to this site since most of them are perma banned at that other site smile.gif The folks that posted there that were either neutral or pro-Blu were run off...

The doom and gloom Blu-Ray BS will continue by the same people for the next 10 years.... Every year we will be told how it is failing to live up to expectations and will be dead soon...

And every year we will continue to get more catalog and new releases and those of us that are in it for the movies and quality, will enjoy the format while a handful of people remain bitter.
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post #29 of 30 Old 10-05-2012, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

LMAO! Years after the format war is over and you STILL can't let it go.
Hey - I like BD. Best PQ and AQ available. But I sure don't defend it's poor performance as a format as you constantly do.

Care to look through all my 1500 posts I've made in the last 9 years I've been here and show me where I'm constantly defending BD? rolleyes.gif
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post #30 of 30 Old 10-05-2012, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Well the only people left that really post there are anti-Blu-Ray so I suspect you will see more of the arguments being brought to this site since most of them are perma banned at that other site smile.gif The folks that posted there that were either neutral or pro-Blu were run off...
The doom and gloom Blu-Ray BS will continue by the same people for the next 10 years.... Every year we will be told how it is failing to live up to expectations and will be dead soon...
And every year we will continue to get more catalog and new releases and those of us that are in it for the movies and quality, will enjoy the format while a handful of people remain bitter.


Good point. If Blu-Ray was losing it's appeal and market share, then why is it almost every time a new release comes out, within a day, both Block Buster and Netflix BD rentals go into a long wait status?



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