Anyone heard of ZPEG? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 4 Old 09-18-2013, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Gooberpatrol66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just attended a brilliant IEEE presentation in Austin by a man who is trying to supplant MPEG. His algorithm, called ZPEG, can supposedly deliver visually perfect (not lossless, but difference less than quantization error, making it invisible) video at 1Mb/s, and lossless compression at a 10:1 compression ratio. Since the algorithm is symmetric, any device that can decode a given ZPEG video in realtime (which would includine things like cellphones) can also encode it in realtime, and it takes only a fraction of the computation required by MPEG. Website's at zpeg.com. They have a downloadable demo that you can mess with to make your own videos and see the video quality and the bitrate of the codec for yourself. He mentioned he was having trouble getting support in the industry so I thought I might raise some interest among multimedia enthusiasts.

JPEG and MPEG both perform 2-dimensional transforms. ZPEG works by performing a 3-dimensional (width, height, and time) Fourier transform, which is a lot more efficient because an entire extra dimension is being compressed. So instead of each frame containing its own grid of macroblocks, each macroblock spans several frames. Also does away with MPEG macroblock search algorithm, resulting in a massive speedup.

What do you guys think? Are you interested? Subjectively perfect video at 1Mb/s that you can encode in at least realtime on your iPhone? I'm very excited. biggrin.gif

This is totally legit, by the way. The guy who gave the presentation, Raymond Westwater, is a PhD and the company that owns ZPEG, Futureware, is the same one that made the AVI specification.

[Tell me if this isn't the right forum to talk about this.]
Gooberpatrol66 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 4 Old 09-22-2013, 03:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Richard Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,959
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooberpatrol66 View Post

I just attended a brilliant IEEE presentation in Austin by a man who is trying to supplant MPEG. His algorithm, called ZPEG, can supposedly deliver visually perfect (not lossless, but difference less than quantization error, making it invisible) video at 1Mb/s, and lossless compression at a 10:1 compression ratio.
I am very skeptical and the YouTube videos he made were posted almost a year ago and yet I can't find any independent tests for ZPEG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooberpatrol66 View Post

Website's at zpeg.com. They have a downloadable demo that you can mess with to make your own videos and see the video quality and the bitrate of the codec for yourself.
That encoder is only for real time demonstrations and what is needed is an encoder that can compress video to a file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooberpatrol66 View Post

He mentioned he was having trouble getting support in the industry so I thought I might raise some interest among multimedia enthusiasts.
Even for a multi-billion dollar company it is very hard to make a video compression format successful. For example VP8 has had limited success and it is supported by both Google and open source advocates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooberpatrol66 View Post

This is totally legit, by the way. The guy who gave the presentation, Raymond Westwater, is a PhD and the company that owns ZPEG, Futureware, is the same one that made the AVI specification.
The company helped develop the original AVI container but without independent testing I wouldn't put much hope in ZPEG.
Richard Paul is offline  
post #3 of 4 Old 09-23-2013, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Gooberpatrol66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
I am very skeptical and the YouTube videos he made were posted almost a year ago and yet I can't find any independent tests for ZPEG.

Neither can I, and that's why I wanted to make this post. Virtually no one knows about it. I want to see some third-party opinions from people who are better experts than me, or reviews, or discussions, or tests, or debunks, or just something. This is the first time I've been interested in a technology so obscure that a Google search can't tell me more about it. I didn't believe the claims at first either.
Quote:
That encoder is only for real time demonstrations and what is needed is an encoder that can compress video to a file.

You don't need a file to measure the compression ratio, right? You can just monitor the amount of data sent over IP? (That's assuming you don't trust what the program's telling you.) At least you can check out the VQ and the CPU usage. But you're right, it's not exactly very useful to the average member of this forum until you can save it as a file.
Quote:
Even for a multi-billion dollar company it is very hard to make a video compression format successful. For example VP8 has had limited success and it is supported by both Google and open source advocates.

From what I read about it on Wikipedia, VP8 doesn't really seem to offer any clear advantages over competing formats besides being free, but that's besides the point. You're right. The developer himself told me all about how hard it was. I really don't believe making this forum post will have any impact on its success in the industry. Even if it does die without a chance, I could still see a small community of people using it for archival purposes due to its high VQ and compression ratio. I know I'll be using it for my own selfish purposes if they ever release a file format and/or codec for it.
Quote:
The company helped develop the original AVI container but without independent testing I wouldn't put much hope in ZPEG.

Well, that sucks. frown.gif I had hoped to get someone on this forum interested in doing some testing of their own, but I'm sure the type of testing you're referring to would be much more official, formal, scientific, academic, professional, and maybe even peer-reviewed.
Gooberpatrol66 is offline  
post #4 of 4 Old 09-28-2013, 06:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Richard Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,959
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooberpatrol66 View Post

You don't need a file to measure the compression ratio, right? You can just monitor the amount of data sent over IP? (That's assuming you don't trust what the program's telling you.) At least you can check out the VQ and the CPU usage. But you're right, it's not exactly very useful to the average member of this forum until you can save it as a file.
The ZPEG encoder was made so that it can only send live camera captured video between two computers. That makes it unsuitable for testing and to me that is suspicious. FutureWare has made plenty of claims about ZPEG and yet they have not released an encoder that could be used for testing it.
Richard Paul is offline  
Reply HDTV Software Media Discussion

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off