Why Blu-ray is a big disappointment for Home Theater aficiandos - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 39 Old 11-06-2013, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I am disappointed with Blu-ray disc. I think all Home Theater aficionados should be disappointed with it as well. What's most upsetting with it is that most of my gripes with Blu-ray stem from things unrelated to AV stuff and more related to business/money stuff.

 

Blu-ray has serious issues and I think the AV community should be upset about them.

 

1) DRM plagues Blu-ray. A big problem with Blu-ray is that consumers can't make a digital rip of a movie they buy like they can from an audio CD. I would buy a heck of a lot of discs if I could rip them onto HDD and connect it to my OPPO for playback. I buy tons of audio CDs and rip them to MP3 and FLAC for playback in my car/home. Since I can't rip DVD/Blu-rays, I never buy them. I literally only own a handful of discs. I own hundreds of CDs.

 

2) DVD has more "meaningful features" that I appreciate than does Blu-ray. For example, with DVD I can have the player remember my place in the movie/disc when I stop playback and remove the disc from the tray. I can't do this on most Blu-rays. On DVD, I can usually skip previews and advertisments that play before the movie. Often times, I want to watch these previews. But I want to do it when I am receptive to finding new movies. FORCING me to watch before the content of the disc makes me not want to buy discs cause everytime I start up, I'm forced to view a Warning, Previews, Advertisements. Users should be able to skip the Warning and all Previews and Advertisements. These items should be accessible on the disk though so that viewers can manually view the Warning, the Previews, and Advertisements at their discresion. But instead these things are force-fed to the viewer when starting the disc and the viewer has no way to watch these things manually at their choosing. This is BAD DESIGN.

 

3) Blu-ray is way too expensive. Yes you can find popular/prominent material at good prices. But Blu-ray is significantly more expensive to rent (e.g., from Netflix) and if you want to buy some material that is not popular it is way more expensive to buy on Blu-ray than DVD. This is caused by DRM costs, exorbitant licensing fees, etc. Ultimately the same political reasons why Blu-ray beat HD DVD are keeping Blu-ray from ultimately succeeding in the market like DVD has done. If the best format was all that mattered, HD DVD would have won for a number of reasons, one of them being cost.

 

4) Blu-ray performance isn't that great. I mean seriously, it color samples at 4:2:0. I'm not a fan of video processing and I often find that I am happier with DVD image than with a Blu-ray image because to me the Blu-ray image always looks over processed.

 

I know many other people that feel the same way I do about this issue. Was wondering what you guys think? (I originally posted the majority of this post in another thread but after posting decided I wanted to give this subject a thread of its own).

 
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post #2 of 39 Old 11-06-2013, 07:19 PM
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I agree with all points but most Blu-ray Discs are better PQ than the dvd's. There's no doubt that the studios and Sony started marketing blu ray as a stopgap as DVD growth started to peter out. All the studios care is about the revenue stream. I sold most of my bluray collection as we are about 3-4 years away from having awesome quality streaming at 1080p. The only blu rays I have left is the Bond 50 collection, Game of Thrones, Homeland and Mad Men
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post #3 of 39 Old 11-06-2013, 10:02 PM
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1. "if it can be read, it can be ripped": ripping a blu-ray to hard disc is a no brainer. there are 2 programs available that I know of that do it with ease - and one of them is free.
2. I agree with the features comments because I care about the quality of the presentation (pq & aq) not how clever some programmer can get in the menus & features.
3. Blu-ray release have been increasing in price. I simply wait them out - they will drop in price. Or hit EBay - there are always decent deals there.
4. I find blu-ray to be a significant improvement over DVD, more from a video perspective than audio. But I value and enjoy improvement in video and audio with my hd-dvd titles & blu-ray titles.
5. I confess to being a fan of having the physical media in my fist - and will pass on trusting someone somewhere to have my best interests at heart with streamed material. I have always believed the movie studios want us to pay every time we watch, recall, or think about one of their titles - and moving everything to the "cloud" (aka - their single copy of whatever in the internet ether that they can let us see/hear or not) is simply a step in that direction. No thanks.

I know I am a bit of an addict for music and movies and maybe old fashioned with my attraction to having high quality media on site - but that's the way it is and probably won't change.

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #4 of 39 Old 11-06-2013, 10:19 PM
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Welcome to 2007. These are arguements that have been kicked around since at least that long. I agree with some of it but mosttly have moved past it.

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post #5 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 12:44 AM
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Regarding the original poster's points about Blu-ray, I disagree with all four of them, partially if not entirely.

1) "Ripping" Blu-ray discs is trivial, the last time I checked.

2) Previews on Blu-ray discs can always be skipped (I do it all the time), and they can be watched later at the disc owner's choosing (I do that, too). The warnings cannot typically be skipped, but they could not on DVDs either, if I remember right.

3) Blu-ray discs (other than new movies in their first month of release, and Disney releases) are cheap, almost give-away cheap often, and certainly cheaper accounting for inflation than ANY other format ever has been at this age since its start.

4) The worst Blu-ray disc I ever saw was still better than the best DVD I have seen of the same title, and probably of ANY title. Both formats use the 4:2:0 color format (as did HD DVD), so it seems silly to me to call that a shortcoming of Blu-ray but not of other formats.

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post #6 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 03:39 AM
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I disagree with the OP on all accounts.

As far as I am concerned, Blu-Ray is the best thing to hit the home video market since LaserDisc.

ymmv. smile.gif
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post #7 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 04:09 AM
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Some whine to go with your cheese? Don't drag all of us all into your hissy fit Mr "Aficiando". BluRay is the best the consumer has had to date. Is it perfect? No, but for the price beats hell out of vhs and dvd. Copying them and skipping previews is easily done in any case.
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post #8 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 06:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisW6ATV View Post


3) Blu-ray discs (other than new movies in their first month of release, and Disney releases) are cheap, almost give-away cheap often, and certainly cheaper accounting for inflation than ANY other format ever has been at this age since its start.
 

Some Blu-rays are priced similar to DVD, but many (if not most) are priced significantly higher than DVD. Checking a few stores just now for movies I would like to buy, it would be significantly more expensive for me to buy Blu-rays than DVDs. So I wouldn't call them cheap, certainly not give-away cheap.

 

One thing I find strange is how there are so many Blu-ray+DVD packages. If a viewer has a Blu-ray player, why would he/she also want a DVD of the movie? If viewer does not have a Blu-ray player, why would they want to spend a lot more money to have a Blu-ray disc sitting around they can't play?

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post #9 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 07:17 AM
 
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I'm surprised so many of you have taken the bait here...

The real answer is that BD is a disappointment to those who have never been able to move past the fact that the horse they backed (in a race that ended in 2008) lost. You can usually identify these individuals by their poorly-thought-out arguments and their need to bring up HD DVD, even though it's been dead for over five years. (See the thread in the BD area whining about how expensive BDs are for another example.)
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post #10 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I'm surprised so many of you have taken the bait here...

The real answer is that BD is a disappointment to those who have never been able to move past the fact that the horse they backed (in a race that ended in 2008) lost. You can usually identify these individuals by their poorly-thought-out arguments and their need to bring up HD DVD, even though it's been dead for over five years. (See the thread in the BD area whining about how expensive BDs are for another example.)


?

BDs are expensive. I think it's a legitimate gripe. A lot of non-AV stuff has made the format more expensive than it had to be.

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post #11 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 07:55 AM
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This was left open, but if it turns into a BD vs. HD-DVD war, it will be locked.

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post #12 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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This was left open, but if it turns into a BD vs. HD-DVD war, it will be locked.

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I'm speaking solely of BD in today's market compared to DVD (not HD DVD).

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post #13 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 10:26 AM
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Doesn't matter. If it turns into an HDDVD vs. BD, it will be locked. You did state your opinion on HDDVD in the first post.

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post #14 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pqwk50 View Post

One thing I find strange is how there are so many Blu-ray+DVD packages. If a viewer has a Blu-ray player, why would he/she also want a DVD of the movie? If viewer does not have a Blu-ray player, why would they want to spend a lot more money to have a Blu-ray disc sitting around they can't play?
Portable Blu-ray players aren't cheap and most Vans/SUV's come equipped with DVD players.
Also, the Blu-ray/DVD combo is usually about $3-5 more than the DVD by itself.

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post #15 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 11:15 AM
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" I think all Home Theater aficionados should be disappointed..."

Well, I'm not sure if I'm a ' Home Theater aficionado', and frankly I couldn't care less about those who are unless they're first a 'film aficionado'.

As I grew up the only way to own a decent film collection which looked like you'd see at the pictures would be to build a collection of 35mm prints.

My Blu-ray Disc collection is generally better quality and cheaper than any 35mm print collection I could have acquired.

Steve W
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post #16 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 12:23 PM
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The turn towards unskippable previews and logos is a horrible turn for a format so far into its lifecycle. Almost all studios now are using trailers you can't skip or even fast-forward, even from independent distributors. This forced viewing definitely changed in the past 18 to 24 months for newly-authored releases. Releases are now also all authored with BD-Java, making it difficult or unwieldy to resume a disc in the middle of viewing. Which is almost entirely unnecessary considering the abysmal failure of BD-Java's features on Blu-ray.
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post #17 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 02:29 PM
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I've yet to run into a BD I can't skip a preview with the use of the next chapter button on my remote, what titles don't let you do that? I suppose everyone should just provide this content without trying to sell you more of it in an ideal world, but for-profit companies generally do want to sell you their upcoming products so they can stay in business....and since many of us no longer go to movie theaters with trailers you can't skip through, that's not really a lot different in any case. You wouldn't want all those marketing people out on the streets would you? Consumers are so needy sometimes.... smile.gif

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post #18 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 02:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

The turn towards unskippable previews and logos is a horrible turn for a format so far into its lifecycle. Almost all studios now are using trailers you can't skip or even fast-forward, even from independent distributors. This forced viewing definitely changed in the past 18 to 24 months for newly-authored releases. Releases are now also all authored with BD-Java, making it difficult or unwieldy to resume a disc in the middle of viewing. Which is almost entirely unnecessary considering the abysmal failure of BD-Java's features on Blu-ray.
While I have seen discs with trailers that couldn't be skipped past, I don't recall encountering any with trailers that couldn't be fast-forwarded through.

Which titles are you talking about? Which studios are making discs this way? Or are these "Rental Exclusive" discs you're talking about?
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post #19 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 03:23 PM
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Personally, I didn't "back a horse" in the BluRay v HD DVD race. I got into it after it was over.

I don't like how I can't play BluRays on my HTPC without purchasing software and then purchasing upgrades over and over. That alone has kept my ownership of BR disks to a handful. Further, I have a 120 inch screen and sit 11 feet away, and, I can tell the difference between BR and DVD, but only if I'm looking for it. The annoyance factor does not overcome the marginal difference in picture quality - at least for me.
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post #20 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 04:33 PM
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I'm actually finding less rental titles now where the previews can't be skipped.

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post #21 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeb View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

The turn towards unskippable previews and logos is a horrible turn for a format so far into its lifecycle. Almost all studios now are using trailers you can't skip or even fast-forward, even from independent distributors. This forced viewing definitely changed in the past 18 to 24 months for newly-authored releases. Releases are now also all authored with BD-Java, making it difficult or unwieldy to resume a disc in the middle of viewing. Which is almost entirely unnecessary considering the abysmal failure of BD-Java's features on Blu-ray.
While I have seen discs with trailers that couldn't be skipped past, I don't recall encountering any with trailers that couldn't be fast-forwarded through.

Which titles are you talking about? Which studios are making discs this way? Or are these "Rental Exclusive" discs you're talking about?
I don't rent, so I really can't speak on those discs. It's a combination of things where the various consumer warnings, studio logos / promos, and some trailers are now unskippable. It does vary somewhat and seems to have gotten much worse with the independent distributors. The PS3 certainly prohibits a wide swath of consumer control when skipping ahead at the beginning of new Blu-ray releases these days.
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post #22 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 05:33 PM
 
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I don't rent, so I really can't speak on those discs. It's a combination of things where the various consumer warnings, studio logos / promos, and some trailers are now unskippable. It does vary somewhat and seems to have gotten much worse with the independent distributors. The PS3 certainly prohibits a wide swath of consumer control when skipping ahead at the beginning of new Blu-ray releases these days.
Again, what titles - specifically - are you seeing this on? What studios are authoring discs in such a fashion? It should be very easy to list off some titles (or at least the studios putting them out) since you claimed that "almost all studios now are using trailers you can't skip or even fast-forward."
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post #23 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 05:39 PM
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I don't rent, so I really can't speak on those discs. It's a combination of things where the various consumer warnings, studio logos / promos, and some trailers are now unskippable. It does vary somewhat and seems to have gotten much worse with the independent distributors. The PS3 certainly prohibits a wide swath of consumer control when skipping ahead at the beginning of new Blu-ray releases these days.
Again, what titles - specifically - are you seeing this on? What studios are authoring discs in such a fashion? It should be very easy to list off some titles (or at least the studios putting them out) since you claimed that "almost all studios now are using trailers you can't skip or even fast-forward."
I watch dozens of Blu-rays in a normal month released by the Hollywood studios and smaller independents. Everything tends to blur together after a while. Everything before the main menus were skippable on Blu-ray authored before a certain date (I'm guessing Jan. 1, 2012?) and now that behavior is not widespread anymore. The pernicious BD-Live movie trailers inserted by some studios are skippable but take forever to load anyway.
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post #24 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 06:09 PM
 
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I watch dozens of Blu-rays in a normal month released by the Hollywood studios and smaller independents. Everything tends to blur together after a while. Everything before the main menus were skippable on Blu-ray authored before a certain date (I'm guessing Jan. 1, 2012?) and now that behavior is not widespread anymore. The pernicious BD-Live movie trailers inserted by some studios are skippable but take forever to load anyway.
That's twice I've asked for examples and twice you've avoided providing any.

That, in and of itself, speaks volumes.
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post #25 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

The turn towards unskippable previews and logos is a horrible turn for a format so far into its lifecycle. Almost all studios now are using trailers you can't skip or even fast-forward, even from independent distributors. This forced viewing definitely changed in the past 18 to 24 months for newly-authored releases. Releases are now also all authored with BD-Java, making it difficult or unwieldy to resume a disc in the middle of viewing. Which is almost entirely unnecessary considering the abysmal failure of BD-Java's features on Blu-ray.
I've only noticed this on rental discs,
As for the FBI and Anti-Piracy warning, I don't think you can even skip those on DVD.

It's a hit or miss if a title will resume were you stopped it but I tend to watch a movie in one setting.
I have hit the Stop button by accident on occasion, in which I have to basically "reboot" the disc and scan through chapters to go to the scene I intended to Pause.

Besides all these nuisances, I enjoy the dramatic PQ improvement blu-ray offers over DVD, which is very noticeable on my 117" screen.

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post #26 of 39 Old 11-07-2013, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeb View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

I don't rent, so I really can't speak on those discs.
I watch dozens of Blu-rays in a normal month released by the Hollywood studios and smaller independents. Everything tends to blur together after a while. Everything before the main menus were skippable on Blu-ray authored before a certain date (I'm guessing Jan. 1, 2012?) and now that behavior is not widespread anymore. The pernicious BD-Live movie trailers inserted by some studios are skippable but take forever to load anyway.

You don't rent yet watch dozens a month? You are given them for professional review or something?

What's limiting about the PS3?

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post #27 of 39 Old 11-08-2013, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeb View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

I watch dozens of Blu-rays in a normal month released by the Hollywood studios and smaller independents. Everything tends to blur together after a while. Everything before the main menus were skippable on Blu-ray authored before a certain date (I'm guessing Jan. 1, 2012?) and now that behavior is not widespread anymore. The pernicious BD-Live movie trailers inserted by some studios are skippable but take forever to load anyway.
That's twice I've asked for examples and twice you've avoided providing any.

That, in and of itself, speaks volumes.

x2.

OP provide a list of non rental only blu-ray discs that you are unable to skip the coming attractions/commercials etc.

I have over 350 blu-ray titles in my collection and I cant think of a single one off the top of my head where I cant skip/FF all the crap.

if you cant provide a list I call shenanigans on this whole thread!

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
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post #28 of 39 Old 11-08-2013, 07:13 AM
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You can't skip them?? That's news to me, either i didn't notice or they were skippable the last 5-10 times I rented from the place down the street......

I buy them, never rip them, I got discount on a BD drive for my Pc and I wish it was easy to watch a movie with it but whatever that's what Blu-ray players are for...of course the experience could depend on which player you have (also I disable BD-Live)

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post #29 of 39 Old 11-08-2013, 07:54 AM
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I think what the OP 'meant' to say is you are forced to manually skip some of the previews/commercials i.e. you can't simply navigate directly to the main title screen, which is true; you are forced to start watching the start of certain preview before you can 'skip'/FF through them. And while I agree with some of the OPs remarks, there's just no comparison from the PQ department, no matter how good a DVD transfer is, the BD version (a good one) will be clearly superior, and in the final analysis, that's the most important criteria IMO.
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post #30 of 39 Old 11-08-2013, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingcarcas View Post

You can't skip them?? That's news to me, either i didn't notice or they were skippable the last 5-10 times I rented from the place down the street......

I buy them, never rip them, I got discount on a BD drive for my Pc and I wish it was easy to watch a movie with it but whatever that's what Blu-ray players are for...of course the experience could depend on which player you have (also I disable BD-Live)
Come to think of it, I believe I may have had a title or 2 which didn't allow me to fast forward a trailer when BD live was enabled and an updated/new trailer was download that was not on the disc itself.
This is why I now leave BD live disabled AND my Ethernet cable to the player unplugged. If you have a player with WiFi, you may want to disable it.

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