How come Blu-ray hasn't replaced DVD? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 03-06-2014, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't buy hardly any DVD nor Blu-ray discs, mostly because of DRM preventing me from copying them to MP4 files like I can copy my CDs to MP3 files. I'd buy if I could copy cause then I would have a "master" and I find it more convenient to manage digital copies so I don't have to shuffle DVDs in and out of my player anytime I want to change videos. Even today I continue to purchase CDs over MP3 files because I like having a physical copy from which to create my digital copies that I keep on my music players (e.g., Sony Walkman). So for video, I rent everything (e.g, Netflix) and just don't have a digital movie library.

 

I only rent DVD instead of Blu-ray because it costs significantly less money and I get more features that matter to me (e.g., DVD remembers your place in the movie). Blu-ray does offer better picture, but I don't feel it's worth that much higher rental cost. I always assumed if Blu-ray was so much better that it would phase DVD out (like DVD did with VHS), especially since Blu-ray players can play DVDs. DVD collections wouldn't become unplayable with a blu-ray player.

 

So how come DVD is still around and going strong? Is it primarily for why I still use DVDs (more affordable with better features)? But if Blu-ray phased DVD out, would the price come down? So it seems DVD is still around for the better features?

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post #2 of 21 Old 03-06-2014, 09:09 PM
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Seems a little suspect but I'll bite. I may regret it.
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Originally Posted by rgaa View Post

I don't buy hardly any DVD nor Blu-ray discs, mostly because of DRM

I didn't really get into Blu-ray until the DRM was broken, which guaranteed the content on the disc wouldn't become useless someday. DVD's DRM has been broken forever. It's all the same as CD's to me, except the files are bigger.
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So for video, I rent everything (e.g, Netflix) and just don't have a digital movie library.

Lots of people do that. People who collect movies are the exception, most rent or stream these days like you.
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I only rent DVD instead of Blu-ray because it costs significantly less money and I get more features that matter to me (e.g., DVD remembers your place in the movie). Blu-ray does offer better picture, but I don't feel it's worth that much higher rental cost. I always assumed if Blu-ray was so much better that it would phase DVD out (like DVD did with VHS), especially since Blu-ray players can play DVDs. DVD collections wouldn't become unplayable with a blu-ray player.

If you're renting a movie you don't even know if you like, is having the best possible picture quality important? What about if you're buying a movie you already know you love? DVD's are attractive for renters, Blu-rays are attractive for buyers. Of course, there are exceptions. Also, most Blu-rays can remember your place in the movie too. There aren't really any features DVD has that Blu-ray doesn't, as a format. Particular discs may vary.
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So how come DVD is still around and going strong? Is it primarily for why I still use DVDs (more affordable with better features)? But if Blu-ray phased DVD out, would the price come down? So it seems DVD is still around for the better features?

Lots of reasons. Blu-ray new releases have silly prices. They usually come down to reasonable prices over time, but the silly initial prices make newcomers to the format nervous. Blu-ray won the format war with HD-DVD only after physical formats became irrelevant for much of the market (due to streaming). Only something like 50% of households have made the jump to HDTV even today, and even fewer have Blu-ray players, so DVDs are still the only real option for many consumers. For many consumers with small displays, DVD is truly good enough for them. And studios are still occasionally screwing up Blu-rays so badly that the DVD truly is the better option. And let's not forget the unforced errors with Blu-ray's BD-Java, firmware updates, and other nonsense.

DVD will not go away for a long, long time. But it's not due to being better in any way at all, so much as just being there first.
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post #3 of 21 Old 03-06-2014, 10:23 PM
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I can sympathize with the OP (except for the ripping part, which I never do).


I was a late adopter of BD, but I'm (mostly) sold on the format now. DVDs are more ubiquitous, faster-loading, less noisy, and more reliable. You can really see (and hear) the difference on a 1080p display on the better-mastered Blu-rays though. So I'm gradually upgrading most of my favorite films to Blu-rays, as they become available/affordable. And also adding some other classics I never owned in SD-DVD format (e.g. Casablanca, Cleopatra, 10 Commandments, Rocky Horror Picture Show, :) etc.), just because they're so spectacular to experience in HD. In short, I want the best versions of all these films that money can buy, which currently = Blu-ray. Same goes for rentals.


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post #4 of 21 Old 03-07-2014, 04:58 AM
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Yeah, Blu-Ray sucks in so many ways except two - Picture and Audio quality. That is the only reason I put up with the excrutiatingly bad load times, BD-Live crashes, trailers for upcoming movies that I really don't give two f***s about and can't skip, enhanced (read ****-awful) transfers and java-shite interface.

Unfortunately, streaming or DVD just don't cut it on my 135" screen so I'm stuck with Blu-Ray.

Bring back HD-DVD - all is forgiven.

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post #5 of 21 Old 03-07-2014, 05:33 AM
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Most people don't care much about picture and sound quality beyond a certain point. DVD is quite satisfactory to these people.

Most people who bought a DVD player a few years ago don't see any need to replace it and aren't looking at new players.

Most people don't obsess about picture and sound quality like those who frequent these forums. DVD is more than good enough for them.

Many people don't have equipment that would let them see and (especially) hear the difference with Blu-Ray.

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post #6 of 21 Old 03-07-2014, 06:02 AM
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3 reasons why BluRay hasn't overtaken DVD: Price, Price, Price.

Also load times are excruciating. Too many previews as noted above. Studios not really giving strong extras (commentaries, the Bond 50 box set extras were weak, they were ported from previous DVD releases) as an incentive to buy. The only strong and plentiful extras are given to TV Shows such as Game of Thrones and Mad Men because the studios know they will sell in good numbers. Also you have many wonderful films from the past that will never see the light of day in Blu-Ray because they are not commercially viable (Sales, Sales, Sales, $, $, $). I'm a big British film buff which had a renaissance during the 1960's. The shame is a lot of these films haven't been released in Blu-Ray. Going forward we won't see a lot of films being released (except from the ones from the Criterion collection and current hit shows and top 10 box office) as the studios know that Blu-Ray is a dying breed and the reality is that there will be great quality streaming in 1080P within the next 5-7 years. My prediction: Netflix trades at $1,000 per share WAY before Apple does. I don't put any stock on % growth rates that the blu-ray supporters put out there, it's all coming from a low base (think in terms of penny stocks). I have some blu-rays and the only reason why I bought was because of far superior PQ and AQ. The extras have been OK at best.
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post #7 of 21 Old 03-07-2014, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sqmzeea View Post

Unfortunately, streaming or DVD just don't cut it on my 135" screen so I'm stuck with Blu-Ray.

Even on my tiny 120" screen, this is true. wink.gif The difference is visible on a regular 32" TV, but it really stands out when you get into projection.

XBMC cures all complaints of load times, previews, menus, etc. This is also true of DVDs.

What's sad is that Blu-ray pricing seems to be on the rise. A couple years ago most new Blu-ray releases (with DVD and Digital Copy included) were around $19-23 while the DVDs were $15-20, but now it seems like Blu-ray is $24-30. I'm not even talking about 3-D. Maybe it's just inflation, but the competition between retailers on new releases seems to be at an end and prices are closer to MSRP than they used to be. Maybe they are just useless as loss-leaders? I have no facts to back this up, this is merely anecdotal. On the plus side, there are many, many bargain-bin Blu-ray discs now so for movies you love it doesn't cost that much more than renting.

Also, renting RedBox DVD vs Blu-ray is like $1.30 vs $2.00 or something. Relatively speaking that's "significantly" more expensive, but absolutely it's pretty damn cheap.
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post #8 of 21 Old 03-07-2014, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by CatBus View Post

Blu-ray new releases have silly prices. They usually come down to reasonable prices over time, but the silly initial prices make newcomers to the format nervous.
New release Blu-ray's usually only $5 more than the DVD and in most cases now include a DVD.
On a rare occasion, especially Disney titles have a $10 difference between a new release DVD and Blu-ray.

Catalog titles remastered for Blu-ray usually do start around $20-30 but prices drop usually after 6 months.
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Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post


Also, renting RedBox DVD vs Blu-ray is like $1.30 vs $2.00 or something. Relatively speaking that's "significantly" more expensive, but absolutely it's pretty damn cheap.
Redbox DVD is $1.20, Blu-ray is $1.50.

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post #9 of 21 Old 03-07-2014, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sqmzeea View Post

Yeah, Blu-Ray sucks in so many ways except two - Picture and Audio quality. .

Three - durability. The hardcoat is really quite a good improvement in scratch resistance.
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post #10 of 21 Old 03-07-2014, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Brandon B View Post

Three - durability. The hardcoat is really quite a good improvement in scratch resistance.

Good call, this is definitely the most underreported advantage of Blu-ray.

I wish the cases weren't typically such flimsy pieces of ****, but you can't have everything. Better than the reverse situation I suppose.
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post #11 of 21 Old 03-07-2014, 06:58 PM
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History shows that the next-gen format must have an increase in convenience to replace the previous format. Blu-ray offers no increase in convenience over DVD. Steaming is obviously the next major format after DVD. Pretty much everyone I know stopped buying/renting DVDs and streams everything from Netflix now.
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post #12 of 21 Old 03-07-2014, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon B View Post

Three - durability. The hardcoat is really quite a good improvement in scratch resistance.

This is also a weakness compared to DVD: Bluray can't be safely and compactly stored in folders as the hardcoat (a misnomer in some cases since it can be a superfluid that flows to "heal" scratches) may become embossed by any patterns on the surface of the carrying material.

Scratches weren't an issue with DVD unless they were annular and even then they could usually be buffed out if they weren't too deep.
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post #13 of 21 Old 03-08-2014, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

New release Blu-ray's usually only $5 more than the DVD and in most cases now include a DVD.
On a rare occasion, especially Disney titles have a $10 difference between a new release DVD and Blu-ray.

Catalog titles remastered for Blu-ray usually do start around $20-30 but prices drop usually after 6 months.
Redbox DVD is $1.20, Blu-ray is $1.50.

I hate the fact that the BD typically has the DVD included. I would rather they leave it out and drop the price some. I stopped watching DVDs in 2005 in anticipation of the BD and HD DVD launch in 2006. Of course course HD DVD is gone now but I still have arround 350 of them. Although it's rare that I will watch one. I only get BDs and especially last year I got a lot of 3D BDs. Which is even worse for including needless extra discs. They'll have the 3D BD, which I can use to watch the movie in 2D and 3D. But then they include a 2D Blu-ray Disc, a DVD, plus a digital version. I would rather they leave out all the extra crap and just give me the 3D BD, and charge less.

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post #14 of 21 Old 03-08-2014, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric.exe View Post

Pretty much everyone I know stopped buying/renting DVDs and streams everything from Netflix now.

In that case they must not watch ANY new or recent releases or titles with any real value. I have had Netflix for many years (streaming and BD by mail) and the number of A titles on Netflix streaming is quite small. Last night I wanted to watch a Western on Netflix and was amazed at how few titles they have, virtually no John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, etc. There are many dozens of titles show up under the search but most all are disc only.


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post #15 of 21 Old 03-08-2014, 09:11 AM
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This gets asked about every other month and the answers will always be the same. If you do not value the best pq and aq then of course you will have little interest in blu-rays or any other physical based content.
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Originally Posted by rgaa View Post

I don't buy hardly any DVD nor Blu-ray discs, mostly because of DRM preventing me from copying them to MP4 files like I can copy my CDs to MP3 files. I'd buy if I could copy cause then I would have a "master" and I find it more convenient to manage digital copies so I don't have to shuffle DVDs in and out of my player anytime I want to change videos. Even today I continue to purchase CDs over MP3 files because I like having a physical copy from which to create my digital copies that I keep on my music players (e.g., Sony Walkman). So for video, I rent everything (e.g, Netflix) and just don't have a digital movie library.

You cannot rip Netfiix either, the best you can do is record it in real time which always means even worse pq then Netflix's already poor pq nor is Netflix content permanent, it often is removed.
Plus BDs can be ripped despite your claim otherwise (with third party software just as you need a third party to record Netflix) so your argument is not only circular but factual incorrect.
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post #16 of 21 Old 03-08-2014, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by eric.exe View Post

Pretty much everyone I know stopped buying/renting DVDs and streams everything from Netflix now.
But Netflix has a very limited section, not everything.
Between Amazon, Hulu and Vudu, you can get almost everything and in HD PQ that surpasses Netflix.

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post #17 of 21 Old 03-08-2014, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

But Netflix has a very limited section, not everything.
Between Amazon, Hulu and Vudu, you can get almost everything and in HD PQ that surpasses Netflix.

Is Hulu doing 1080P now? The last time I streamed from Hulu they were still using 720P.

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post #18 of 21 Old 03-08-2014, 10:19 AM
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BD hasn't replaced DVD because, overall, it is an overpriced inferior product.

 

PQ and AQ are superior, but that is it. Factor in an Oppo upscaling for DVD and you're mostly left with AQ improvements (and how many people from the general public can even notice the AQ improvements?). Some remarked BD has superior scratch resistance but this isn't true. BD had to put that protective layer on because there is so little material before the content. Wear down some of the layer on BD and man those things scratch easily. BD gives lots more problems than DVD for durability. DVD has more material before the content which makes for great protection.

 

HD-DVD would have replaced DVD (heck it's even in the name). But BD never will. The BD format was not done right. It didn't deliver what people wanted. It got PQ and AQ improved, but then degraded everything else that was so great about the DVD medium. The decision to use Java for example. This was probably done for commercial reasons and nothing to do with performance/need.

 

Some have remarked how BD includes digital copy and a DVD disc with your purchase. I always laugh at this. It's testament in my eyes that BD-makers feel they can't sell the product on its own. Or they see it as just another way to ripoff the customer some more as if the exorbitant BD fees weren't enough.

 

Whoever said you can copy BD is factually accurate but is missing an important point. BD actively works to prevent legal copying. It is a lot more difficult and a lot more expensive to copy a BD disc than it is a CD. And much of the expensive software you need to buy to be able to copy has to be renewed yearly. I take issue with those who brush aside how much DRM cripples the product. All the criminal folks and technically skilled folks and those with extra money know how to bypass the DRM, but the majority of lawful citizens who spend hard earned money on the product are left out in the cold with no ability to copy for legitimate home use. How cool would it be to be able to rip your BD discs to file and then play them back off a HDD attached to your Oppo 103? That would be sweet! But for the average home user, it doesn't happen and DRM plays a big role in that.

 

The dominant medium for entertainment right now is DVD. not streaming and not BD. Unless BD is replaced by a more DVD-like medium and/or the Feds step in and start regulating the broadband industry to get USA broadband speeds and performance improved, DVD will stay king of the hill for the foreseeable future. Streaming is never going to take off if the paradigm of Netflix paying Comcast so it can stream movies in a watchable resolution continues.

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post #19 of 21 Old 03-08-2014, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric.exe View Post

Steaming is obviously the next major format after DVD. Pretty much everyone I know stopped buying/renting DVDs and streams everything from Netflix now.

That comes with a price sadly. Butchered picture quality and some lighter blacks and various altered colours due to compression.
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I hate the fact that the BD typically has the DVD included. I would rather they leave it out and drop the price some. I stopped watching DVDs in 2005 in anticipation of the BD and HD DVD launch in 2006.

I thought that was funny because on Amazon Batman Begins + The Dark Knight Triple play was cheaper than Blu-Ray alone. £6 for 2 films vs £7 for each standalone Blu-Ray version.
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Originally Posted by wuther View Post

This gets asked about every other month and the answers will always be the same. If you do not value the best pq and aq then of course you will have little interest in blu-rays or any other physical based content.
You cannot rip Netfiix either, the best you can do is record it in real time which always means even worse pq then Netflix's already poor pq nor is Netflix content permanent, it often is removed.
Plus BDs can be ripped despite your claim otherwise (with third party software just as you need a third party to record Netflix) so your argument is not only circular but factual incorrect.

Isn't it funny. Buzzword HD, masses get all giddy but happy with mediocre compression. Let alone 4k. UK couldn't handle 4k streaming. So many have monthly usage caps as it is and if you don't have that or at the same time monthly caps, most have Fair Usage Policy hidden.

So many are even struggling with regular HD streaming as it is. Hence why so many rented films through On Demand and such is 2 - 4GB minimum. It's usually horribly fuzzy as well. Some of the elevated blacks on some are horrendous as well.
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post #20 of 21 Old 03-08-2014, 12:46 PM
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................................
I thought that was funny because on Amazon Batman Begins + The Dark Knight Triple play was cheaper than Blu-Ray alone. £6 for 2 films vs £7 for each standalone Blu-Ray version.
.................

That is an old movie. I'm in the US and I'm talking a new release. Which is usually more expensive. But sometimes a sale will drop the price some. Especially on the older titles.

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post #21 of 21 Old 03-08-2014, 01:28 PM
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While thats true. You never said new release but you still stated drop DVD and the version with DVD was cheaper than Blu-Ray alone. 2 films for the price of 1, yet it's triple play.
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