Sony Hurting because of BDs? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 40 Old 05-01-2014, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/1/5670786/sony-earnings-adjustment-impairment-charges

 

I thought this topic would be more appropriate for "Industry News" but we can't post into that forum?

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post #2 of 40 Old 05-01-2014, 09:32 AM
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We must be the odd ball, we have always had the premium cable channels and only recently started purchasing the 3D, BD, DVD, Ultraviolet combos instead for mobility, and our Theatre. Got in too late I guess.


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post #3 of 40 Old 05-01-2014, 10:11 AM
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Can't believe this story about Sony hurting due to the decline of Blue Rays:

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/1/5670786/sony-earnings-adjustment-impairment-charges

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post #4 of 40 Old 05-01-2014, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grilman View Post

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/1/5670786/sony-earnings-adjustment-impairment-charges

I thought this topic would be more appropriate for "Industry News" but we can't post into that forum?
Welcome to AVS. Only staff can post new threads in that area. It fits here. Thanks for the link/post.

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post #5 of 40 Old 05-01-2014, 11:45 AM
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If you watch the posting rates on the BD forums, you'll notice that they dropped off a cliff recently. I suspect that the sheeple are fat and happy with netflix....

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post #6 of 40 Old 05-01-2014, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seggers View Post

If you watch the posting rates on the BD forums, you'll notice that they dropped off a cliff recently. I suspect that the sheeple are fat and happy with netflix....

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Yes, I am....renting Blu-rays instead of buying them. rolleyes.gif


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post #7 of 40 Old 05-01-2014, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Yes, I am....renting Blu-rays instead of buying them. rolleyes.gif

And that's great. But if you watch the forums here, the post rate and amount of posts has decline quite a bit. And, not that you would have known this, that includes me. We cut the cable and went to netflix. Where I found a bunch of old shows that I used to watch.

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post #8 of 40 Old 05-01-2014, 11:56 AM
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In business parlance, Blu-rays are a mature market segment by this point. I think this is more an excuse and easy scapegoat than the root cause of Sony's problems. It doesn't look like Blu-ray will directly replace DVD like that format completely replaced VHS, but that has been known for a few years by now.

There is definitely a waning interest in Blu-ray-related discussion across the Internet. I know that Blu-ray reviews are getting fewer and fewer views in the past year or two.


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post #9 of 40 Old 05-01-2014, 12:26 PM
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I completely stopped DVD purchases a long time ago.
If streaming video ever approaches the PQ/AQ level of blu-ray, then maybe I would consider it, assuming the ISPs don't charge us to death for excessive usage.
Maybe Sony should consider expending more effort in making blu-ray players & software with higher quality & improved flexibility.
Redirecting the $$ they waste on their DRM infatuation to better products might do wonders.

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #10 of 40 Old 05-01-2014, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

In business parlance, Blu-rays are a mature market segment by this point. I think this is more an excuse and easy scapegoat than the root cause of Sony's problems. It doesn't look like Blu-ray will directly replace DVD like that format completely replaced VHS, but that has been known for a few years by now.

Other than picture quality, Blu-ray offers no jump in features compared to DVD that DVD did compared to VHS.

DVD offered several improvements over tape:

- No need to rewind anything after watching.
- The ability to skip to your favorite parts of a movie.
- Noticeably less storage space required.
- Less likelihood of damage simply from playing it and having the player eat it.
- Better shelf life.
- Better image quality
- Special features (for those that like that sort of thing) - in some cases, that includes games for kids.

Plus, as the format progressed, it allowed for:

- greater portability with portable players and laptop drives
- alternate versions of films, such as unrated or extended version
- the ability to collect full TV seasons instead of selected episodes
- the ability to copy and make backups of discs using the drive already in your computer

Blu-ray, on the other hand, is still often more expensive than the same DVD titles, has onerous copy protection that takes forever to load the movie and the drives and portable players aren't nearly as widely available.

Better picture quality simply isn't enough for most people. It has to be easier to use and offer a financial advantage. Blu-ray does neither.


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post #11 of 40 Old 05-01-2014, 02:32 PM
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Some of the television shows that Sony produces are only available on DVD. Some parts of the corporation aren't mandated to support Blu-ray at this time.

NOW: my post on AVS Forum.
NEXT: someone else's post on AVS Forum.
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post #12 of 40 Old 05-01-2014, 04:58 PM
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Noticed how the article is stating the blu-ray format is a Sony format? Of course here that is only claimed when is it advantageous.

Sony has bet the entire company on the PS4, if it is having a short fall it is because of the game console focus.

Anyway there is no let up in the releasing of catalog titles BDs which is the only thing I care about and if some what crummy pq streaming video well let the punishment fit the crime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seggers View Post

And that's great. But if you watch the forums here, the post rate and amount of posts has decline quite a bit. And, not that you would have known this, that includes me. We cut the cable and went to netflix. Where I found a bunch of old shows that I used to watch.

The drop off here happened soon after the forum software here was switched, not an amazing coincidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Other than picture quality, Blu-ray offers no jump in features compared to DVD that DVD did compared to VHS.

Blu-ray, on the other hand, is still often more expensive than the same DVD titles, has onerous copy protection that takes forever to load the movie and the drives and portable players aren't nearly as widely available.

Better picture quality simply isn't enough for most people. It has to be easier to use and offer a financial advantage. Blu-ray does neither.

Gee it is like you have no experience with blu-ray. There are portable players widely available, they are called laptops which are superior in every way to the old dvd portables. There are a lot features added not on DVD, some are gimmicks (which includes stereovision) of debatable merit but claiming there none or little is utterly false.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seggers View Post

If you watch the posting rates on the BD forums, you'll notice that they dropped off a cliff recently.
Depends on what you mean by "recently". Last few months? Last couple years?

Because there hasn't been **** for releases this year. I haven't bought a disc in months because there just haven't been any to buy. I look at the upcoming releases, and it looks like it'll be even more months before I buy anything else. They can't complain about crappy sales if they're not selling anything.

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post #14 of 40 Old 05-01-2014, 05:38 PM
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Duplicate threads merged.

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post #15 of 40 Old 05-02-2014, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuther View Post

Noticed how the article is stating the blu-ray format is a Sony format? Of course here that is only claimed when is it advantageous.

Sony has bet the entire company on the PS4, if it is having a short fall it is because of the game console focus.

Anyway there is no let up in the releasing of catalog titles BDs which is the only thing I care about and if some what crummy pq streaming video well let the punishment fit the crime.
The drop off here happened soon after the forum software here was switched, not an amazing coincidence.
Gee it is like you have no experience with blu-ray. There are portable players widely available, they are called laptops which are superior in every way to the old dvd portables. There are a lot features added not on DVD, some are gimmicks (which includes stereovision) of debatable merit but claiming there none or little is utterly false.

I don't see how changing the software on the forums would affect people posting here. The URLs are the same, as in the sign in details. I still see a bunch of names that I knew from before. However, I do agree with the next one I'm going to quote....

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post #16 of 40 Old 05-02-2014, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

Depends on what you mean by "recently". Last few months? Last couple years?

Because there hasn't been **** for releases this year. I haven't bought a disc in months because there just haven't been any to buy. I look at the upcoming releases, and it looks like it'll be even more months before I buy anything else. They can't complain about crappy sales if they're not selling anything.

I am really feeling the AVS love today...

By recently, I mean within the last couple of months or so. I used to see many threads get updated on a regular basis and a page or so of updates. Now, it's not unusual to see threads that haven't been touched in days still sitting on the front page. Right now, the thread on the first page was last touched March 29th.

However, I totally agree about the GiGo idea. I have been less and less inclined to go to the cinema and that equates in less inclination in buying shiny BD disks. I would think that that would have a big impact on buying habits. Pump out crap, that doesn't survive a second watching and sometimes barely the first, and people just don't buy it.

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post #17 of 40 Old 05-02-2014, 06:12 AM
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The blu-ray.com forum is still very vibrant with tons of posts. I monitor it for talk of new releases and I'm still buying tons of Blu-Rays.

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post #18 of 40 Old 05-02-2014, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

The blu-ray.com forum is still very vibrant with tons of posts. I monitor it for talk of new releases and I'm still buying tons of Blu-Rays.

Which lends credence to the software change on AVS being the real culprit.

If Blu-ray (or HD-DVD) had hit the market unchallenged, I think we all would have been much better off now. Apple and Microsoft are really to blame here, IMO. Microsoft supported HD-DVD on paper and on the 360 only as an afterthought attempt to delay PS3/Blu-ray purchases while pushing their own digital store that they hoped would be competition for iTunes. Meanwhile, Microsoft did not include Blu-ray or HD-DVD decoder software in Windows natively like they did with DVD playback in Vista and 7. They clearly had no interest in truly supporting either format. Apple has been much more earnest in its efforts to eliminate all physical media from its ecosystem, instead relying upon its successful iTunes platform. Sony probably could have made licensing the technology cheaper to promote broader acceptance, but that's never been their style.

So does this mean that 4K-BD will be relegated to LaserDisc status in the next cycle? More expensive and limited availability? I just hope we have some sort of option aside from digital delivery.
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post #19 of 40 Old 05-02-2014, 06:22 AM
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Yeah, my thoughts were toward the fate of 4K Blu-Ray as well.

Btw, I keep seeing mention of some forum software change being responsible for dropping avs membership. What's that about?

I've been a member since 2001 and I don't remember any software change that would have any impact on my coming to or using this forum.

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post #20 of 40 Old 05-02-2014, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Btw, I keep seeing mention of some forum software change being responsible for dropping avs membership. What's that about? I've been a member since 2001 and I don't remember any software change that would have any impact on my coming to or using this forum.

Just a couple years ago when the forum was redesigned as part of a migration to a new platform. It's anecdotal at best, but a lot of people did not like it, voiced their issues, literally stopped posting, and moved to other forums. I don't really remember what the complaints were anymore, but I didn't really care. Personally, I have had no issues, but I have noticed a decline in BD-related posts since that move.
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post #21 of 40 Old 05-02-2014, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

The blu-ray.com forum is still very vibrant with tons of posts. I monitor it for talk of new releases and I'm still buying tons of Blu-Rays.

Agreed.

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post #22 of 40 Old 05-02-2014, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Other than picture quality, Blu-ray offers no jump in features compared to DVD that DVD did compared to VHS.

DVD offered several improvements over tape:

- No need to rewind anything after watching.
- The ability to skip to your favorite parts of a movie.
- Noticeably less storage space required.
- Less likelihood of damage simply from playing it and having the player eat it.
- Better shelf life.
- Better image quality
- Special features (for those that like that sort of thing) - in some cases, that includes games for kids.

Plus, as the format progressed, it allowed for:

- greater portability with portable players and laptop drives
- alternate versions of films, such as unrated or extended version
- the ability to collect full TV seasons instead of selected episodes
- the ability to copy and make backups of discs using the drive already in your computer

Blu-ray, on the other hand, is still often more expensive than the same DVD titles, has onerous copy protection that takes forever to load the movie and the drives and portable players aren't nearly as widely available.

Better picture quality simply isn't enough for most people. It has to be easier to use and offer a financial advantage. Blu-ray does neither.

Let's not forget the large audio improvement of Blu-ray with lossless audio. This is rather noticeable even with a very modest 5.1 system.

BD-Live is also something DVD never had although it never interested me.

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post #23 of 40 Old 05-02-2014, 11:15 AM
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DVD had the one thing that Blu-Ray has never been able to achieve: Accessibility. DVD-ROM drives became standard equipment for computers within the space of a few years after being introduced and Blu-Ray just hasn't gotten that level of support from the PC industry and probably never will given that the days of the 17/18-inch entertainment notebook are pretty much over now.
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post #24 of 40 Old 05-02-2014, 11:35 AM
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Perhaps BD is destined the same fate as SACD... a small niche market? I personally don't think so. Most disc players sold today play both formats so, eventually most or all movies can be sold in BD only. Provided BD is priced competitively with DVD then most consumers won't complain unless they have very outdated players. Even then, budget BD players can be had for $30-50.
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post #25 of 40 Old 05-02-2014, 12:39 PM
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It was only a matter of time, really. Digital downloads for music (lossy or lossless), digital downloads for games and applications (Steam, Origin, Adobe CS, Apple/Microsoft/Android app stores). Nearly all other media are streamed digitally (Pandora, Netflix, Prime, iHeartRadio...). Microsoft wants to move to subscription-based Office and Windows. Google is pushing Chrome OS. All digitally delivered. The big media conglomerates like NBC and HBO want to get people into subscription plans to watch content in walled gardens. I mean what's left besides movies at this point?

Unfortunately Billy Bob at Walmart doesn't give a crap about lossless audio, quality transfers, 1080p, or 4K, he just wants a $200 TV on layaway to watch broadcast TV and probably doesn't even know whether it's in HD or not (but he says it is since it's an HDTV).
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post #26 of 40 Old 05-02-2014, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Btw, I keep seeing mention of some forum software change being responsible for dropping avs membership. What's that about? I've been a member since 2001 and I don't remember any software change that would have any impact on my coming to or using this forum.

Just a couple years ago when the forum was redesigned as part of a migration to a new platform. It's anecdotal at best, but a lot of people did not like it, voiced their issues, literally stopped posting, and moved to other forums. I don't really remember what the complaints were anymore, but I didn't really care. Personally, I have had no issues, but I have noticed a decline in BD-related posts since that move.
Yes, posting to this forum and traffic fell off after AVS switched to a new platform, one replete with ads. On one of my older computers, I had to block nearly every ad on this site for it to load properly.

Traffic in some of the other sub-forums haven't had as much of a noticeable fall-off, mostly because they are the only places to hold serious discussions on certain equipment on the whole Internet. AVS lost a lot of Blu-ray traffic to Blu-ray.com.


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post #27 of 40 Old 05-02-2014, 10:55 PM
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I think the industry was too optimistic about Bluray, considering how it was implemented, and the demise due to a number of factors (in no particular order):

1. The initial war between HD-DVD and Bluray weakened the market.

2. The average person is happy enough with 720p quality with basic surround sound and the sheer volume of new material makes "rental" and streaming logistically more attractive, especially since that streaming is increasing in quality.

3. The price of Bluray makes owning a large personal library cost prohibitive for many in these difficult financial times.

4. DRM that prevents consumers from simply watching the product they bought, in the way they want, is turning people off the format: not to mention those titles that won't play in a player without a firmware upgrade.

5. Like BD-Live, 3D proved to be a passing fad for most due to the technological implementation issues and most studios taking the cheap and nasty approach of post-conversion instead of 3D filming.

6. The declining world economic situation means profits need to be revised downwards on everything and Bluray is no exception.

7. The consumer is getting wise to the practice of deliberately compromising quality on current product in order to entice migration to the next best thing and has had enough: it could be seen with Superbit DVD that the studios could have implemented from the beginning, but waited until near the end of the format's life and only applied to a few examples, making Bluray look comparatively better than conventional DVD.

I pity the studios with their hopes pinned on 4K as I think it is going to turn out to be a niche market like laserdisc. I think they should have concentrated on leveraging the maximum from Bluray by transferring and encoding at the highest possible quality. I still expect 4K displays to be implemented, mainly for full resolution passive 3D.
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post #28 of 40 Old 05-04-2014, 03:22 PM
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I think the industry was too optimistic about Bluray, considering how it was implemented, and the demise
I pity the studios with their hopes pinned on 4K as I think it is going to turn out to be a niche market like laserdisc. I think they should have concentrated on leveraging the maximum from Bluray by transferring and encoding at the highest possible quality.

Where are all these low quality Blu-rays? All the complaints I've heard are from pixel-peepers rambling about DNR.

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post #29 of 40 Old 05-04-2014, 07:58 PM
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Where are all these low quality Blu-rays? All the complaints I've heard are from pixel-peepers rambling about DNR.

Well, unfortunately in terms of catalog titles, Universal and Paramount combined have released a doozy of DNR'd/EE'd duds.

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post #30 of 40 Old 05-04-2014, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Well, unfortunately in terms of catalog titles, Universal and Paramount combined have released a doozy of DNR'd/EE'd duds.

That makes no difference to most people and has made no impact in the Blu-ray market.

NOW: my post on AVS Forum.
NEXT: someone else's post on AVS Forum.
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